Why does everyone hate the 4080?

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Hi everyone,

I've been seeing everyone BASHING on the 4080, honestly, for not apparent reason.
The main argument is: The 3080's MSRP is 699$, the 4080 is 1199$. nVidia is a greedy company.

Now here's my (logical?) counter-argument:

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.
2. The 4080 is much closer to the 3080 Ti in terms of CUDE Cores and VRAM, and then 3080 Ti was released at the exact MSRP of 1,199$ as the 4080.
   I assume the 4080 12GB was intended to be the "real" 4080, and the 4080 16GB the 4080 Ti? If nVidia would have simply called the 4080 16GB version a "4080 Ti" would people not be as pissed as they are?
3. The current market is awful, allowing nVidia to basically do whatever they want. Reality check, "courtesy" of pcpartpicker:
   1. Want a 3090? Pay 1,298$+ (only 1 card at that price). ~13-23% slower than the 4080 for ~8% more money.
   2. Want a 3090 Ti? Pay 1,639$+ (only 1 card at that price). ~9-14% slower than the 4080 for 36% more money.
   3. Want a 4090? Pay 2,079$+ (only 1 card at that price - the next one is 2,199$). ~5-25% faster than the 4080 for 73%-83% more money.
   4. Or frantically refresh websites until (maybe) some website sells them at MSRP. Maybe.

And on a more personal note and a bit more details about my thought process here:

Yes - it's very justified for companies to spike their prices. nVidia isn't some charity organization intended to give back to the community. They are here to make money and please the investors first and foremost. If that means increasing the prices dramatically due to numerous reasons, such as: extremely high demand, shortage of chips in the industry, increased prices of the workforce, materials, development process and shipment, no competition, and purely because they can - they will do it.

Whether you (the user) like it or not makes 0 difference to them, since they have done their research (they have people smarter than many of us working on exactly that) and know it will sell either way due to the current market situation. They can only make X GPUs a year, knowing very well the vast majority of them will sell. Why sell them for 699$ a piece if it'll sell the exact same way for 1199$ a piece?

Is it ethical / good for consumers? Nope and nope.

Is it something that was done in the past? Only a million times by a million different companies. Tesla has been doing it for years.. Does that stop people from buying Teslas? Not really. They are still selling far more than they can produce. Only now people with less money can't afford it. Did you see Elon Musk crying about all those people who can't afford Teslas? Didn't think so.

Until nVidia produces more GPUs than they can sell, prices will continue rising. Until AMD/Intel doesn't produce anything worthwhile and competitive, prices will continue rising. Until scalpers will be dealt with, price will continue rising. This is a very very basic demand and supply issue.

This problem won't be fixed just because xxx_insert_username_here_xxx can't afford a product, or thinks a private company is doing "unethical" things. They have enough customers without them, they've done their research. It being sold out very quickly just proves it they were not wrong.

Thoughts?

Full disclosure:
OP had bought 2 RTX 4080's at MSRP for 2 different builds and doesn't understand all the fuss and hate around it.

You do you.

To me too expensive, but if you want affirmation it'll be along shortly, Nvidia has it's fan's.

It being sold out quickly means their MSRP yet again is delusional and set up initially as a troll low initial release price that's going up-uo-up in 3,2,1 now

An arssssse tactic they've done the last two generations.

Where have you been hiding mars

 

[Outback Bronze]

4090 blows it away.

RTX 4090 Owner Hits Nvidia With Lawsuit Over Melting 16-pin Connector | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

Literally.

Yes, I agree the 4080 is a bit tough on the wallet but it's a nice performing card. Between the 4080 and 4090 Id actually lean towards the 4080 as it still performs admirably but at 2/3rds the cost of a 4090 and uses less juice.

But I'm still gona wait for AMD on their cards to make a more informed decision.

 

[Vayra86]

I went from a 1080 to a 3080, $1139 AUD at launch for the 1080, and $1399 AUD at launch for the 3080. The problem was buying the 3080 at msrp. Looks like nvidia doesn't want to make that 'mistake' again, so hopefully people voting with their wallets sends a message, imo it clearly already is.

I dread to see how AMD would price in the top spot lol, but over the years we've seen tastes of it, the benefit of playing second fiddle is doing slightly less greedy things and copping bugger all of the heat for it.

In any case, my gut feel is that AMD'S launch will severely impact 4080 sales, the 4070ti(?) will have to have a drop to $800 USD at a minimum, and hopefully the 4080 to $1000 at a minimum, or replaced with a different SKU to try and save face lol.

What do we think out of these two hypotheticals?

• 4080Ti is a maxed out AD103
• 4080Ti is a more cut down AD102, and the 4090Ti launches as a maxed out AD102

Yeah... when that 3080 was announced I got all excited, only to learn it carried only 10GB later. That won't last me like this 1080 does with its 8GB; it will show age already come 2024-2025 I reckon. The disbalance between core and VRAM is just too large for it not to be an issue. We're in 2022 and already there are some outliers where you see this. That problem only becomes bigger if you play modded stuff.

So... while MSRP might be close or samey, and perf/$ might seem to increase, it really didn't if you take a longer look. I calculate over the total cost of ownership (not meticulously, but roughly) and I expect cards to live second lives as either great resellers (try selling a 10GB card five years from now; the norm is already moving to 12~16GB for that perf level!) or as useful cards in another system. I reckon a 3080 will end up in the latter only. Just not worth selling at some point.

Of course the comparison isn't completely fair if we consider the market/mining developments, but still; for that slightly increased MSRP from 1080>3080 we also got a whole lot less under the hood; planned obsolescence, bigtime. For this segment of GPUs though, that's unacceptable - to me at least.

As for AMD impact... yeah I think those 899 and 999 cards are going to obliterate the 4080 16G at least, and might even nudge people into moving further up the stack. If the performance is there... they've got a highly competitive duo of cards coming, and the RT gap is completely irrelevant too; it seems Nvidia didn't gain much if anything relatively.

 

[bug]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

A few years ago, for $1,200 I could build two(!) PCs for friends that weren't into hardcore gaming. As such, spending $1,000 on one(!) video card seems just obscene, regardless of the name on the box.
I don't hate this (hating on objects?), I just choose not to buy.

 

[Dirt Chip]

And this is why you're not upset about the price, and that's fine. Some of us are fully invested into the fine details, and we know what die is being sold, and care about the memory bandwidth. Some of us aren't just consumers, we're enthusiasts.

If you've followed GPUs for long, including those fine details, you'd know that Nvidia is selling a 103 die, which is historically a xx70 series card, and charging $1200 dollars for it.

Some of us into the fine details still miss the full 100 series dies, which us lowely enthusiasts can't feasibly get our hands on anymore.

Knowing about the fine ditails is one thing, an enthusiasts thing, and i`m among that group all in.
It is utterly different thing to chase the very last and best tech all year long, and i`m very very far from that I-must-have-the-best group.
You can be enthusiasts about the tech but not owne it, even when you decide to make new purchases.
Knowing the fine details can also help understandings that the most expensive- " the best" - isn't actually the best that is right for you so you are a smarter consumer.

You choose one group unrelated to the other- they are not attached in any sort except within you.

 

[error1984]

Hi everyone,

I've been seeing everyone BASHING on the 4080, honestly, for not apparent reason.
The main argument is: The 3080's MSRP is 699$, the 4080 is 1199$. nVidia is a greedy company.

Now here's my (logical?) counter-argument:

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.
2. The 4080 is much closer to the 3080 Ti in terms of CUDE Cores and VRAM, and then 3080 Ti was released at the exact MSRP of 1,199$ as the 4080.
   I assume the 4080 12GB was intended to be the "real" 4080, and the 4080 16GB the 4080 Ti? If nVidia would have simply called the 4080 16GB version a "4080 Ti" would people not be as pissed as they are?
3. The current market is awful, allowing nVidia to basically do whatever they want. Reality check, "courtesy" of pcpartpicker:
   1. Want a 3090? Pay 1,298$+ (only 1 card at that price). ~13-23% slower than the 4080 for ~8% more money.
   2. Want a 3090 Ti? Pay 1,639$+ (only 1 card at that price). ~9-14% slower than the 4080 for 36% more money.
   3. Want a 4090? Pay 2,079$+ (only 1 card at that price - the next one is 2,199$). ~5-25% faster than the 4080 for 73%-83% more money.
   4. Or frantically refresh websites until (maybe) some website sells them at MSRP. Maybe.

And on a more personal note and a bit more details about my thought process here:

Yes - it's very justified for companies to spike their prices. nVidia isn't some charity organization intended to give back to the community. They are here to make money and please the investors first and foremost. If that means increasing the prices dramatically due to numerous reasons, such as: extremely high demand, shortage of chips in the industry, increased prices of the workforce, materials, development process and shipment, no competition, and purely because they can - they will do it.

Whether you (the user) like it or not makes 0 difference to them, since they have done their research (they have people smarter than many of us working on exactly that) and know it will sell either way due to the current market situation. They can only make X GPUs a year, knowing very well the vast majority of them will sell. Why sell them for 699$ a piece if it'll sell the exact same way for 1199$ a piece?

Is it ethical / good for consumers? Nope and nope.

Is it something that was done in the past? Only a million times by a million different companies. Tesla has been doing it for years.. Does that stop people from buying Teslas? Not really. They are still selling far more than they can produce. Only now people with less money can't afford it. Did you see Elon Musk crying about all those people who can't afford Teslas? Didn't think so.

Until nVidia produces more GPUs than they can sell, prices will continue rising. Until AMD/Intel doesn't produce anything worthwhile and competitive, prices will continue rising. Until scalpers will be dealt with, price will continue rising. This is a very very basic demand and supply issue.

This problem won't be fixed just because xxx_insert_username_here_xxx can't afford a product, or thinks a private company is doing "unethical" things. They have enough customers without them, they've done their research. It being sold out very quickly just proves it they were not wrong.

Thoughts?

Full disclosure:
OP had bought 2 RTX 4080's at MSRP for 2 different builds and doesn't understand all the fuss and hate around it.

Sounds like you working for the industry. People should ignore your post full of illogical and stupid thoughts.

 

[bug]

Sounds like you working for the industry. People should ignore your post full of illogical and stupid thoughts.

It's not illogical. He correctly points out that, considering available options, the 4080 is positioned reasonably. The problem is, all options are in "insane" territory. Correctly positioning something in insane territory, doesn't make it less insane.

 

[mb194dc]

It's a solid piece of technology. It's just the price which is ridiculous...

During lockdown and mining such prices were more acceptable, given couldn't spend money on anything out of home....

Market has gone now and almost no one is willing to spend $1400+ As we're seeing with loads of 30xx inventory still around. 4090 in stock etc.

GPU market will properly crash over the next year imo.

 

[AusWolf]

Is your question real? Did you read the review here?

Basically EVERYTHING is better value than this, except for the 4090 and 3090 Ti which are the biggest cash grabs in the history of PC gaming (oh, and the 1630 which I personally consider non-existent).

Edit: Also, the 4080 as well as the 4090 represent the kind of behavior typical of Nvidia in the last few years. They do an overhyped product launch with physical products based on partially disabled GPU dies, wait for the hype train to slow down a bit, then release the "upgraded" version with the fully enabled die, which I find utterly disgusting.

 

[Arco]

The more you spend, the more you save. - Ngreedia

 

[Nike_486DX]

Either nvidia being too greedy, or amd failing to attract potential buyers (driver stability, poor control panel ui, not enough pr marketing etc). Because its always been the case: reds are starting to get competitive, greens do noticeable price cuts in return. We as consumers benefit from both.

 

[AusWolf]

(driver stability, poor control panel ui, not enough pr marketing etc)

Erm, what? AMD's drivers have been rock solid ever since the release of RDNA 2. Only the 5700 series had stability issues. Their control panel is miles ahead of Nvidia's, both in design and functionality! I'll give you the point on PR, though. AMD just can't seem to achieve the same number of wet pants during a product launch that Nvidia does for some reason. We'll see how far Nvidia can keep driving prices up before buyers start to think it's a bit too much. Personally, I think Nvidia is trying to position itself as the 500 HP Ferrari (kept in market by hype), while AMD is the 500 HP Mustang (kept in market by value).

 

[freeagent]

I like the hardware, but because I am poor I hate the price.

 

[JATownes]

Knowing about the fine ditails is one thing, an enthusiasts thing, and i`m among that group all in.
It is utterly different thing to chase the very last and best tech all year long, and i`m very very far from that I-must-have-the-best group.
You can be enthusiasts about the tech but not owne it, even when you decide to make new purchases.
Knowing the fine details can also help understanding that the mose expensive- " the best" - isn't actually the right thing for you so you are a smarter consumer.
You choose one group unrelated to the other- they are not attached in any sore except within you.

I feel like this change is affecting the entire product stack, not just the best tech. Nvidia has moved the entire stack up in price, while keeping small the incremental performance in the hardware. We can see this by the smaller (cheaper) dies being used in the higher priced cards.

I avoid the best of the best due to the falloff of performance for dollar, but I like gaming on the high end.

My last GPU cycles have seen $800 for a 1080ti, then moved to the 2080ti at $1200. That was a tough pill to swallow, but AMD had nothing to compete that generation. Then the 3080ti, also for $1200. Decent, but not great generational improvement, but the price stayed the same. Now enter the 4080, also priced at $1200, with a HUGE hardware gap between itself and the 4090. This leads me to believe that the 4080ti model with come in the $1400+ range. Makes me miss the R9 290x for $400, or the 4850 at $200.

I'm skipping this generation as I just don't see the value in it. But as an enthusiast that's been in this hobby for decades, it's very sad to me that the cost of entry for new people entering the hobby is so high. When the RX480 launched at $200, I thought we were entering a time of reasonable prices for entry level PC gaming again. The market went the other way and now everything from MBs to GPUs have skyrocketed compared to a few generations ago. That's sad to me when I'm trying to raise kids in this hobby.

 

[wolf]

Yeah... So... to me at least.

Thanks for telling me about not buying one and why.

In terms of 10gb not enough, outside of DSR/DLDSR it's never been a constraint for me, and that's gaming at 4k120, also I'm not all that oppose to lowering the texture setting a notch as the years go on. I plan to upgrade when I can get 2x performance at a price I can agree with, which at this rate could be 2024, so 4 years and I have zero doubts the card will be fine through that, I'm also a collector, so on selling not a concern. Hard disagree on the imbalance between core and VRAM, for the powerband it occupies its very satisfactory, again it's not like the fear mongers say like 'crippled' lol, 10GB is plenty of VRAM for nice textures for a few years to come yet. I never do modded stuff either. Also hard disagree on less under the hood + planned obsolescence, the cards feature set is fantastic and VRAM tight but adequate. I also am fascinated by and love using upscaling techniques, DLSS 2.4+ and FSR 2.1+ are both excellent, especially at 4k, a net benefit to the experience for me personally, but I'd encourage anyone to use them at 4k, they also help keep VRAM needs in check. 2 years in and from my pov it's only gotten better, the fine wine drivers, it's more than paid for itself mining, runs cool and quiet and beasts through everything I throw at it running undervolted, this card if had at MSRP was one of the, if not the unicorn of the generation. From an actual ownership experience it's been and continues to be mighty impressive. It certainly has catered to what I want to get out of a Graphics card purchase and experience.

Given what you wrote, I can 100% appreciate a 3080 10GB wasn't the card for you. I bought one and I love it, it just continues to impress me.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Erm, what? AMD's drivers have been rock solid ever since the release of RDNA 2. Only the 5700 series had stability issues. Their control panel is miles ahead of Nvidia's, both in design and functionality! I'll give you the point on PR, though. AMD just can't seem to achieve the same number of wet pants during a product launch that Nvidia does for some reason. We'll see how far Nvidia can keep driving prices up before buyers start to think it's a bit too much. Personally, I think Nvidia is trying to position itself as the 500 HP Ferrari (kept in market by hype), while AMD is the 500 HP Mustang (kept in market by value).

It's a constant regurgitated "Fact" that's elaborated on by those Nvidia owners who haven't tried AMD in a while or they would know it's wrong and the UI exceeds nvidia's dated version extremely.

 

[dj-electric]

I can only say one thing. The profit margin on a pure speculation of BoM on the RTX 4080 seems incredibly high. It is more than likely that if NVIDIA needs to make it cheaper, they will make it cheaper, and not by a small amount

 

[xtreemchaos]

I don't hate the 4080 Its just a incredibly strong dislike. price, TPD, ill say no more.

 

[HaKN !]

The RTX 4080 is a really good card but the pricing is horrible

The cheapest one in Denmark costs above 1550 USD, And people are already scalping it to earn some 50-100 USD

 

[bug]

I can only say one thing. The profit margin on a pure speculation of BoM on the RTX 4080 seems incredibly high. It is more than likely that if NVIDIA needs to make it cheaper, they will make it cheaper, and not by a small amount

I can only say one thing. Trying to deduce the profit margin solely by the BoM means nothing. It's not like those materials grow on trees (even then, you'd factor in the cost of harvesting them). There's design, prototyping, iterations that go into making a product.

 

[Vayra86]

Thanks for telling me about not buying one and why.

In terms of 10gb not enough, outside of DSR/DLDSR it's never been a constraint for me, and that's gaming at 4k120, also I'm not all that oppose to lowering the texture setting a notch as the years go on. I plan to upgrade when I can get 2x performance at a price I can agree with, which at this rate could be 2024, so 4 years and I have zero doubts the card will be fine through that, I'm also a collector, so on selling not a concern. Hard disagree on the imbalance between core and VRAM, for the powerband it occupies its very satisfactory, again it's not like the fear mongers say like 'crippled' lol, 10GB is plenty of VRAM for nice textures for a few years to come yet. I never do modded stuff either. Also hard disagree on less under the hood + planned obsolescence, the cards feature set is fantastic and VRAM tight but adequate. I also am fascinated by and love using upscaling techniques, DLSS 2.4+ and FSR 2.1+ are both excellent, especially at 4k, a net benefit to the experience for me personally, but I'd encourage anyone to use them at 4k, they also help keep VRAM needs in check. 2 years in and from my pov it's only gotten better, the fine wine drivers, it's more than paid for itself mining, runs cool and quiet and beasts through everything I throw at it running undervolted, this card if had at MSRP was one of the, if not the unicorn of the generation. From an actual ownership experience it's been and continues to be mighty impressive. It certainly has catered to what I want to get out of a Graphics card purchase and experience.

Given what you wrote, I can 100% appreciate a 3080 10GB wasn't the card for you. I bought one and I love it, it just continues to impress me.

It is worth revisiting what you've said here in two years time, just for perspective. If you're still on the same thoughts, great, you know you can trust them going forward. If not... adjust

I've done that exercise way back, when I had SLI 660s. I then said never again will I ride the edge of VRAM capacities combined with a powerful GPU core perf (2GB was quickly the immediate problem for Kepler GPUs, core perf was fine; this is a history repeats issue - when I swapped the duo for a single 780ti (3GB) the difference was night and day - similar core power, 10x better gaming/frame delivery. Same thing applies to the 7970, it lasted as it did because of that 1GB extra). Note how you're already preparing in your post for little shortages of it, by saying 'texture res down np'. That proves the point right there; the balance is off; the 1080 8GB does simply not have this problem no matter your use case; core will run out of juice along with VRAM. You've spent half the post naming all the measures to 'keep VRAM in check'.

Another matter is of course whether you are fine with that. That's emotion.

But it is an absolute fact that from Pascal > Ampere the balance core/VRAM was changed radically, and cache improvements are most definitely not restoring it, that only counts for a subset of use cases/use of features on top. I'm sorry for sounding like a broken record...

 

[freeagent]

On launch day 4080s were listed at 3000
Beaver bucks, they knocked 1K off and now they are “only” 2000 bucks..

 

[AusWolf]

It is worth revisiting what you've said here in two years time, just for perspective. If you're still on the same thoughts, great, you know you can trust them going forward. If not... adjust

I've done that exercise way back, when I had SLI 660s. I then said never again will I ride the edge of VRAM capacities combined with a powerful GPU core perf (2GB was quickly the immediate problem for Kepler GPUs, core perf was fine; this is a history repeats issue - when I swapped the duo for a single 780ti (3GB) the difference was night and day - similar core power, 10x better gaming/frame delivery. Same thing applies to the 7970, it lasted as it did because of that 1GB extra). Note how you're already preparing in your post for little shortages of it, by saying 'texture res down np'. That proves the point right there; the balance is off; the 1080 8GB does simply not have this problem no matter your use case; core will run out of juice along with VRAM. You've spent half the post naming all the measures to 'keep VRAM in check'.

Another matter is of course whether you are fine with that. That's emotion.

But it is an absolute fact that from Pascal > Ampere the balance core/VRAM was changed radically, and cache improvements are most definitely not restoring it, that only counts for a subset of use cases/use of features on top. I'm sorry for sounding like a broken record...

If you think about it, an insanely good GPU with borderline acceptable amounts of VRAM is a good way to make sure you win the hearts of reviewers while also forcing users to upgrade a couple of years down the line. The 1080 you mentioned, is great because it wasn't built with this mindset. A 3070 Ti 16 GB would have also been great, I wonder why Nvidia cancelled it (sacrasm - the above is exactly why).

 

[bug]

On launch day 4080s were listed at 3000
Beaver bucks, they knocked 1K off and now they are “only” 2000 bucks..

They're practically giving them away for free, lol

 

[3x0]

nVidia desperately wants to be the Apple of GPUs: closed off ecosystem (Hairworks, G-sync, DLSS to name a few) and complete control of the manufacturing-to-sales line with insane pricing, with loyal fans lining up to buy the next iPhone overpriced GPU.