Why does everyone hate the 4080?

[AusWolf]

You joke about VRAM mitigation strategies, well I've never yet had to actually turn textures down, but strategies like that basically everyone needs to use all the time, not many can people turn every dial in the game to 11 and hit their performance target.

That depends on your performance target. My performance target of 40-60 FPS at 1080p is pretty easy to meet at high graphics - even a 6500 XT or 1650 can do it in most games. The only reason I swapped my 2070 with a 6750 XT is because I'd rather pay £450 for an upgrade now than who knows how much a bit later.

 

[Mussels]

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.

Normally as you go up in the product stack, you get less cost efficiency - halo products cost more for smaller gains.

Except in this case you get "4090 outperforms the 4080 by 41%, while costing 33% more"

oh and 4090s are melting so trust levels are low


(Edited for same message, less words)


6950xt at $800 USD new is slower, yes - but definitely competitive, and without the risk of melting connectors
that upto 40FPS higher is only for people with top-tier CPU's and systems as well, so if you arent running a 13900K or 7700x with 6000MT/s RAM it's a hard purchase
(Other titles had much smaller gaps than the example below)

*unrelated screaming begins*

HAIL NVIDYA
no wonder the 4090s can melt things

(And i'm very glad my 3090 has a 375W max, that i've reduced to <275W)

 

[AusWolf]

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.

Normally as you go up in the product stack, you get less cost efficiency - halo products cost more for smaller gains.

Except in this case you get "4090 outperforms the 4080 by 41%, while costing 33% more"

oh and 4090s are melting so trust levels are low


(Edited for same message, less words)


6950xt at $800 USD new is slower, yes - but definitely competitive, and without the risk of melting connectors
that upto 40FPS higher is only for people with top-tier CPU's and systems as well, so if you arent running a 13900K or 7700x with 6000MT/s RAM it's a hard purchase
View attachment 270414

To put it simply, being a better value than the 4090 (which is one of the worst value graphics cards available) doesn't make the 4080 a good buy - just a tiny bit less shit.

 

[Omga4000]

Except in this case you get "4090 outperforms the 4080 by 41%, while costing 33% more"

Haven't watched his entire review yet, but what you're quoting shows a massive difference compared to TechPowerUp's testing.
How come? Is it 41% in a very specific game / scenario?

1080p - 5% difference

1440p - 11% difference

4K - 25% difference

 

[64K]

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.

Normally as you go up in the product stack, you get less cost efficiency - halo products cost more for smaller gains.

Except in this case you get "4090 outperforms the 4080 by 41%, while costing 33% more"

oh and 4090s are melting so trust levels are low


(Edited for same message, less words)


6950xt at $800 USD new is slower, yes - but definitely competitive, and without the risk of melting connectors
that upto 40FPS higher is only for people with top-tier CPU's and systems as well, so if you arent running a 13900K or 7700x with 6000MT/s RAM it's a hard purchase
(Other titles had much smaller gaps than the example below)
View attachment 270414

The new xx80 are faster than the previous generation flagship. You can't compare the MSRP of a 4080 to the MSRP of a 3090 Ti. To be accurate you have to compare the MSRP of the 4080 to the MSRP of the 3080 and compare the MSRP of the 4090 Ti (when/if it arrives) to the MSRP of the 3090 Ti.

So what we have is a 4080 ($1,200) compared to a 3080 ($700). That is a huge price increase.

 

[Mussels]

Haven't watched his entire review yet, but what you're quoting shows a massive difference compared to TechPowerUp's testing.
How come? Is it 41% in a very specific game / scenario?

1080p - 5% difference
View attachment 270422

1440p - 11% difference
View attachment 270423

4K - 25% difference
View attachment 270424

I linked the video to the time they quoted it, they involve ray tracing more in their results

You asked why, and it's simply because having the price to performance match up isn't how GPU product stacks have worked in previous years - and when they launch the top tier model first you shouldnt pay 20% less for 20% less performance, you're meant to get better value not equal value



And then its comparing peak covid shortage prices to post scarcity prices, which just isnt comparable

The new xx80 are faster than the previous generation flagship. You can't compare the MSRP of a 4080 to the MSRP of a 3090 Ti. To be accurate you have to compare the MSRP of the 4080 to the MSRP of the 3080 and compare the MSRP of the 4090 Ti (when/if it arrives) to the MSRP of the 3090 Ti.

So what we have is a 4080 ($1,200) compared to a 3080 ($700). That is a huge price jump.

This
Being faster than the previous flagship doesnt mean it should cost more, it's a newer product line

 

[Omga4000]

I linked the video to the time they quoted it, they involve ray tracing more in their results

Ahh - that explains it. Thanks.

I linked the video to the time they quoted it, they involve ray tracing more in their results

You asked why, and it's simply because having the price to performance match up isn't how GPU product stacks have worked in previous years - and when they launch the top tier model first you shouldnt pay 20% less for 20% less performance, you're meant to get better value not equal value

And then its comparing peak covid shortage prices to post scarcity prices, which just isnt comparable

This
Being faster than the previous flagship doesnt mean it should cost more, it's a newer product line

Yha, that I (finally) understood after people have been repeating it for numerous times.
Feel free to check my original post update, by the way

 

[AusWolf]

The new xx80 are faster than the previous generation flagship. You can't compare the MSRP of a 4080 to the MSRP of a 3090 Ti. To be accurate you have to compare the MSRP of the 4080 to the MSRP of the 3080 and compare the MSRP of the 4090 Ti (when/if it arrives) to the MSRP of the 3090 Ti.

So what we have is a 4080 ($1,200) compared to a 3080 ($700). That is a huge price increase.

Naming doesn't matter, imo. You either compare the price of products of the same performance level, or the performance of products with similar price.

Where I give you the point is that there should be an improvement in either performance or price, but there isn't one (the exorbitant $2k 3090 Ti doesn't count). Compared to the 3080, you get 23% more performance (source: TPU review) for nearly double MSRP.

 

[phanbuey]

I honestly think it's just a test. They missed the Scalper pricing opportunity so they're trying to see where the actual market price is.

I think the 4090 was to solidify the top spot. The 4080 is really a test to see how much they can actually get away with.

 

[Omga4000]

how much they can actually get away with.

A lot.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The new xx80 are faster than the previous generation flagship. You can't compare the MSRP of a 4080 to the MSRP of a 3090 Ti. To be accurate you have to compare the MSRP of the 4080 to the MSRP of the 3080 and compare the MSRP of the 4090 Ti (when/if it arrives) to the MSRP of the 3090 Ti.

So what we have is a 4080 ($1,200) compared to a 3080 ($700). That is a huge price increase.

Given the very high amount of disabled cores in the RTX 4090, I'm willing to stake on NVIDIA reviving the Titan brand with a release slated for their 30th anniversary in April 2023. No holds barred, full AD102 core, 48GB G6X, Up to 750W TGP, $3000. Those are my predictions.

(And i'm very glad my 3090 has a 375W max, that i've reduced to <275W)

Yeah, I agree. Above this threshold (375W) the problems begin unless your card is on water. It's just too much energy to dissipate through traditional air cooling. Reliability axis goes down fast after this.

Honestly with 3090's we are pretty safe to skip this generation altogether, but given I need another GPU I will still try to get a 7900 XTX. After that I'm probably going to hang up my upgrade hat for a number of years. Next year I turn 30, time to settle down and start looking at having kids

 

[phanbuey]

AMD really doesn't have a good marketing message to compete with NV. They keep trying to compete in specs and pricing which is a dead end -- even when they won on those they did poorly.

IF AMD set up a proper purchasing queue (like evga) to get cards and then went the "We are about the gamer and customer experience" route they would crush it. Nvidia's Achilles heel is that they treat their buyers and partners like crap.

Here's some examples:

Even if the 7900xt gets crushed by the 4080, AMD could take market share by making the buying experience great and tailoring the marketing to being about the customer/gaming experience. Throw in some side by sides of RT on vs off and you see RT is still garbage and you have a really compelling product.

 

[wolf]

That depends on your performance target.

Of course, I have a preference to balance visuals against fluidity and target 90-120fps at 2160p. And to an extent I think it's reasonable to make smart concessions to achieve that. If one targets 40-60fps at 1080p, their hardware requirements can be a LOT lower too, so that's nice.

 

[RadeonProVega]

Its selling pretty good despite the price. I don't hate it, i only use workstation GPU's, next card I'm buying is a Radeon Pro W5700 for under $250 dollars lol.
Good game!

 

[Omga4000]

To everyone who was wondering about why the RTX 4080 was pretty much sold very quickly, this is likely because their stock was extremely low to begin with, at least according to Moore's Law Is Dead sources.

 

[wolf]

at least according to Moore's Law Is Dead sources.

Haven't been able to take that guy seriously in years, a channel and content built on whispers, rumors, and copious amounts of filling the gaps with bullshit.

But hey, throw enough stuff at a wall, some of it is bound to stick, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Omga4000]

Haven't been able to take that guy seriously in years, a channel and content built on whispers, rumors, and copious amounts of filling the gaps with bullshit.

But hey, throw enough stuff at a wall, some of it is bound to stick, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Have never seen him before in my life, just happened to come across his video about the matter.
I'll take it with a grain of salt.

 

[wolf]

Way too many salty people in forums

You're not wrong. It's important to be objective and critical I get that, but it is amusing to continually hear from people (mostly on reddit but also here) about why say the GFX card I purchased for myself was the wrong choice lol. They often see us talking positively about it as confirmation bias or something, but I put more stock in an owners opinion over someone who doesn't own one and chooses to crap on it with zero first hand experience. I've been guilty of it myself, but I'd add that from my perspective it usually a multi factor thing, like the price+multiple aspects of the specs and features suck, not just the price, or one part of the spec, or one feature etc. Take the 4080, it's actually a really good product technically speaking, it's just been given an MSRP/street price that most people think is too high, broadly speaking that's by far it's largest drawback, if perhaps the only serious drawback.

Turns out, a product at a given price has a place for everyone, you're happy with your 4090, power to you, I'm sure somewhere, people are happy with their 6500XT's and 3050's, power to them too. Both products at almost opposite ends of the spectrum and have groups that intensely hate them, groups made up in vast majorities by people who don't own them and would seemingly prefer your purchase decision aligned to their personal procurement strategy and needs, it's fascinating.

 

[Why_Me]

Said Elon Musk.

With all seriousness, though. Is that what you understood from my post?
If I had "way too much money" do you think I'd bother opening a thread and asking for people's opinion?
If you had actually read the thread you'd know I've canceled my order after the nice people of this community had helped me understand why this was a bad deal.

Didn't read the entire thread but how much were you being charged for those cards?

 

[Omga4000]

Didn't read the entire thread but how much were you being charged for those cards?

MSRP.
I bought the Gigabyte OC version which was a few extra bucks - 1,269$.

 

[Why_Me]

MSRP.
I bought the Gigabyte OC version which was a few extra bucks - 1,269$.

Should have kept those cards. They are only topped by the 4090.

 

[Omga4000]

Should have kept those cards. They are only topped by the 4090.

1) So far. Pending the 7900 XTX, which is expected to be faster while costing less, we'll see about that.
2) I still have my reservation, I haven't lost the cards. I won't pick it up until I see what happens with the AMD series, but either way that card's MSRP is a 1-to-1 increase of performance and price compared to a 3080, making it a lousy purchase.
3) Still hoping to get a 4090 at MSRP, which would be best for me, but stocks are just non-existent and all that fire-hazard fiasco has really made me reconsider that one as well.
4) As people have mentioned - it's not worth the price, really. I do suggest you read the thread if it interests you

 

[mama]

1. The 4080 is better than even a 3090 Ti which was released at an MSRP of 1,999$. People were not as negative towards the 3090 Ti as they are over the 4080.

Normally as you go up in the product stack, you get less cost efficiency - halo products cost more for smaller gains.

Except in this case you get "4090 outperforms the 4080 by 41%, while costing 33% more"

oh and 4090s are melting so trust levels are low


(Edited for same message, less words)


6950xt at $800 USD new is slower, yes - but definitely competitive, and without the risk of melting connectors
that upto 40FPS higher is only for people with top-tier CPU's and systems as well, so if you arent running a 13900K or 7700x with 6000MT/s RAM it's a hard purchase
(Other titles had much smaller gaps than the example below)
View attachment 270414

*unrelated screaming begins*


View attachment 270415


HAIL NVIDYA
no wonder the 4090s can melt things

(And i'm very glad my 3090 has a 375W max, that i've reduced to <275W)

If you paint a donkey to look like a horse, it's still a donkey. The 4080 is not a halo product and shouldn't be priced like one (or compared to the 4090 which is in the stupid halo class).

 

[ratirt]

Take the 4080, it's actually a really good product technically speaking, it's just been given an MSRP/street price that most people think is too high, broadly speaking that's by far it's largest drawback, if perhaps the only serious drawback.

Because of this price the product becomes bad. The performance is good. It is higher than the last gen flagship and that is great but the value goes out the window. That is why people are opposed this and in general terms call the 4080 a bad product. It is the bigger picture here that makes the 4080 undesirable and a bad product.
Technically speaking also, 4080 has a huge gap between 4090 if you have not noticed. The price is astronomical for what the 4080 is even though it is faster than 3090Ti but that's beside the point now. The gap between 3080 and 3090 was not that big which basically tells you something too about the 4080. If you include price of the card here, well, it is a shameless money grab knowing the 4080 MSRP NV set so high (not to mention the 4080 12GB disappointment) there is a chance of another 2 tier cards between the 4080 and 4090. like 4080 super and 4080 ti? Obviously the prices for these will be adequately higher. That pisses people off. Not to mention the 4090Ti which will cost bags of cash as well.

You're not wrong. It's important to be objective and critical I get that, but it is amusing to continually hear from people (mostly on reddit but also here) about why say the GFX card I purchased for myself was the wrong choice lol.

People are objective and they use the bigger picture and give examples. Countless here to be fair. They are salty and I see why, ADA release is very bad and that is a fact with the price tags on the products. People see the product as a whole not just technical aspect. (which in terms of 4080 is not that great which I have mentioned above). What bugs me on the other hand is, some people here point out saltiness and refute ADA being a bad product claims by literally saying you are too salty or if you cant afford don't buy it, or it is faster so it has to be more expensive. This are not valid arguments but rather following NV (profit company) narration which may render people OK'ing to this shills. Look at this on the other hand. It is amusing to hear people praising company despite releasing a really bad product in general. There are other aspects but lets just stop here.

 

[siluro818]

It's kind of like walking into a store, seeing something you like, and asking the price. You're told that it costs $600, but if you would be so kind to also give an extra $600 to the store owner? Because he asked you nicely that is. And you do it.
Here's me asking nicely for $600. Anyone who buys the 4080 at msrp should have no issue handing me $600, no strings attached. I'm offering them exactly the same deal lol