Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[AusWolf]

I respect that not everyone likes Win 11, but 11 in 2023 is very different from the absolute animal that launched in fall 2021. If you're willing to be a bit of a power user there are tools like NTLite that you can use to bend 11 to your liking.

At the end of the day I don't see not having the X3D optimizations as a big deal.

7800X3D is the everyman's SKU, and requires none of these novel scheduling tricks - it's just a new 5800X3D.

The hardships that come with 7900X3D/7950X3D are the result of wanting to have your cake and eat it too (Vcache + more cores). Not wanting to lose to Intel in any metric at the top end.

For people benching all-core, the 7950X is probably still going to walk all over those two, 16 cores that aren't hobbled by a silicon insulator. And for pushing DDR5 clock, it's still the 1CCD parts that will lead. I hope the AGESA team gets their shit together but I don't see the 2CCD Vcache parts being anything other than a hassle.

I agree again.

To be fair, the only target audience I can imagine for the 7900/7950X3D is people who game and work at the same time, which is not many, I suppose.

Some of us are used to chasing the highest of the high-end for gaming, which isn't only unnecessary, but also counter-productive ever since AMD's chiplets and Intel's E-cores arrived.

The old belief that usefulness and price are correlated needs to change to buying parts that are fit for purpose. 1 CCD for gaming, 2 CCDs for work.

I'll have a look at NTLite, thanks. Can you customize telemetry options with it?

 

[tabascosauz]

I agree again.

To be fair, the only target audience I can imagine for the 7900/7950X3D is people who game and work at the same time, which is not many, I suppose.

Some of us are used to chasing the highest of the high-end for gaming, which isn't only unnecessary, but also counter-productive ever since AMD's chiplets and Intel's E-cores arrived.

The old belief that usefulness and price are correlated needs to change to buying parts that are fit for purpose. 1 CCD for gaming, 2 CCDs for work.

I'll have a look at NTLite, thanks. Can you customize telemetry options with it?

Want vs. need, a neverending struggle

I had my fair share of making fun of Intel but both Intel and AMD have indirectly admitted that games top out at 8 cores. So in that specific context, 8 additional "real" Zen cores on CCD2 is equally useless as 8 "fake" E-cores - the most either of them can hope to contribute is some light/unrelated background processing.

NTLite has a staggering amount of options. Not a lot of handholding but it's still a somewhat guided process, reminds me of walking through IKEA. You start with installer options, then setup, then services and processes etc. I'll look at it again in the morning. Yes, telemetry and whatnot is in there

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

To be fair, the only target audience I can imagine for the 7900/7950X3D is people who game and work at the same time, which is not many, I suppose.

Or just games and works, both on the same computer.

Or games for work, and needs some spare cores to run whatever recording/streaming software.

 

[Super XP]

OOOOkay... Now I'm confused. I'm sure PBO and all that is turned off, but whilst I was running the R23 test, my CPU wattage was in the 150's!

That's 150F right? Celsius would be frying your chip.

 

[AusWolf]

Want vs. need, a neverending struggle

I think I ended my struggle with the 5950X that I sold after a couple of months when I saw that CPU usage was around 15% even in the most demanding games.

I had my fair share of making fun of Intel but both Intel and AMD have indirectly admitted that games top out at 8 cores. So in that specific context, 8 additional "real" Zen cores on CCD2 is equally useless as 8 "fake" E-cores - the most either of them can hope to contribute is some light/unrelated background processing.

Not just useless, but potentially counter-productive when you're impacted by the increased latency between the two CCDs.

NTLite has a staggering amount of options. Not a lot of handholding but it's still a somewhat guided process, reminds me of walking through IKEA. You start with installer options, then setup, then services and processes etc. I'll look at it again in the morning. Yes, telemetry and whatnot is in there

Cool, thanks!

That's 150F right? Celsius would be frying your chip.

Wattage. Not temperature.

 

[Super XP]

Or just games and works, both on the same computer.

Or games for work, and needs some spare cores to run whatever recording/streaming software.

Yes exactly, not everyone uses their Gaming PCs for gaming only.

I think I ended my struggle with the 5950X that I sold after a couple of months when I saw that CPU usage was around 15% even in the most demanding games.


Not just useless, but potentially counter-productive when you're impacted by the increased latency between the two CCDs.
View attachment 284104


Cool, thanks!


Wattage. Not temperature.

Ah OK that make more sense lol

 

[tabascosauz]

I think I ended my struggle with the 5950X that I sold after a couple of months when I saw that CPU usage was around 15% even in the most demanding games.

Not just useless, but potentially counter-productive when you're impacted by the increased latency between the two CCDs.

Cool, thanks!

Wattage. Not temperature.

Your 5950X downgrade makes a lot more sense now that I'm on 5800X3D
HWUB averages it out a bit, I think some of the worst results were like a 20% penalty in Metro Exodus just from not disabling CCD? Not sure if it was fixed in AGESA or Windows

Ironically, Win 10 is immune, because when gaming on 2CCD CPUs it more or less ignores CCD2 entirely. Which is how all of these 2CCDs should always be, no exceptions. Win 11 is just really eager to explore the whole CPU, lol

Or just games and works, both on the same computer.

Or games for work, and needs some spare cores to run whatever recording/streaming software.

Well, that's the tradeoff for wanting everything, right? Scheduler hell incoming.

With Thread Director alone controlling E-cores, perhaps, but I don't recall the 11 scheduler is currently smart enough to allocate GAME to CCD1 and NOT GAME to CCD2. Unless you manually Process Lasso each background program, Windows goes wherever it wants. Maybe the new X3D changes will help all the 2CCDs as well.

A fast interconnect between CCD1 and CCD2 (ie. Fanout, EMIB) would solve this problem real quick, but that costs $$$.

 

[AusWolf]

Your 5950X downgrade makes a lot more sense now that I'm on 5800X3D
HWUB averages it out a bit, I think some of the worst results were like a 20% penalty in Metro Exodus just from not disabling CCD? Not sure if it was fixed in AGESA or Windows

Yep. Like I tend to say, 8+8 cores with 32+32 MB L3 cache is not the same as 16 cores with 64 MB.

Ironically, Win 10 is immune, because when gaming on 2CCD CPUs it more or less ignores CCD2 entirely. Which is how all of these 2CCDs should always be, no exceptions. Win 11 is just really eager to explore the whole CPU, lol

Really? That's weird.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yep. Like I tend to say, 8+8 cores with 32+32 MB L3 cache is not the same as 16 cores with 64 MB.

Really? That's weird.

Mine was sure an expensive $760 to spend only to find out later that I was gaming on a 6-core...

The 7950X bug only ever affected Win 11 I think, for that reason.

This stuff is never well documented though even if its obvious. Not many people have a second monitor where they just watch HWInfo all the time while a game is open on the other screen. Can't say if 11 has changed in the half year I've been gone from 2CCD, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[AusWolf]

Mine was sure an expensive $760 to spend only to find out later that I was gaming on a 6-core...

Ah, so you downgraded too? Awesome!

 

[trparky]

and on the intel side, dont buy anything with E-cores

Why is that?

 

[P4-630]

and on the intel side, dont buy anything with E-cores

So what is wrong with my i7 12700K E-cores.

It's working fine otherwise imo....

 

[Arco]

I'm so glad to have a full-fat second CCD. (I host servers and other stuff.)

Space engineers doesn't like weak server cores. I did have the process affinity the other processes though. Overall a great experience with AM5 so far. The biggest problem is OBS. It doesn't like AV1 4k@60 10bit 4:2:0 recording. It would have this weird driver restart (nvlddmkm) but would work afterward.

 

[The King]

As a 7700X owner, I agree with you. The non-X is nearly as fast as the X, while offering huge savings on power, heat, and buying cost.

E-cores don't interest me as long as they require you to install Windows 11 to work properly, which I'm not going to do.

You can use the same TDP of the 7700 on your 7700X and get better power and lower heat since your part should be a higher bin.

Also you could maybe find a better sweet-spot than the 7700 non X if you spend some time fine tuning PBO settings.

Although the extra money spent can't be reduced.

My 5800X running in ECO mode 95W with PBO and CO would outperform a stock 5800X and do so using less power and heat.

 

[AusWolf]

Although the extra money spent can't be reduced.

This! Unfortunately, I bought my 7700X before the non-X was released, or announced.

I don't regret it, though. At least I have more options to play with, not to mention that it isn't hot at all while gaming, even at stock.

 

[freeagent]

You guys won’t be alone for long, people will tire of AM4 and move on soon enough

 

[AusWolf]

You guys won’t be alone for long, people will tire of AM4 and move on soon enough

With the arrival of cheap(-ish) A620 boards, and X3D CPUs, I bet on it.

 

[P4-630]

With the arrival of cheap(-ish) A620 boards, and X3D CPUs,

I'm not into buying an AMD system but if I were and bought the latest x3d CPU and had a mid/high end GPU and DDR5 memory, I wouldn't skimp on the motherboard....

 

[AusWolf]

I'm not into buying an AMD system but if I were and bought the latest x3d CPU and had a mid/high end GPU and DDR5 memory, I wouldn't skimp on the motherboard....

Sure, cheap motherboards and X3D CPUs attract different people, but they do attract, nonetheless.

Besides, the chipset isn't necessarily an indication of motherboard quality.

 

[Nordic]

You guys won’t be alone for long, people will tire of AM4 and move on soon enough

As tempting as the 7800x3d looks, I don't plan on upgrading until hopefully 2027. I upgraded from a 3900x to a 5950x because I wanted the best cpu on AM4 to last me a bit longer. The 5800x3d was announced a few months later, otherwise I would have got one of those.

 

[AusWolf]

As tempting as the 7800x3d looks, I don't plan on upgrading until hopefully 2027. I upgraded from a 3900x to a 5950x because I wanted the best cpu on AM4 to last me a bit longer. The 5800x3d was announced a few months later, otherwise I would have got one of those.

What people seem to forget very often is that the no.1 thing that ultimately matters before upgrading is how happy you are with your current system.

Change isn't always good, and even when it is, it isn't always necessary.

 

[tabascosauz]

As tempting as the 7800x3d looks, I don't plan on upgrading until hopefully 2027. I upgraded from a 3900x to a 5950x because I wanted the best cpu on AM4 to last me a bit longer. The 5800x3d was announced a few months later, otherwise I would have got one of those.

What people seem to forget very often is that the no.1 thing that ultimately matters before upgrading is how happy you are with your current system.

Change isn't always good, and even when it is, it isn't always necessary.

I need to really resist the upgrade itch this time. As long as I do my part to make it happy (by staying far away from AGESA 1207/1208), this CPU has been rock solid. Actually a little surprised it's been so no-frills. Between this 5800X3D and replacement 5700G I think my luck might finally be turning around......

Besides, I gotta rep the beloved Impact, not many of us around

 

[Chomiq]

 

[AusWolf]

I need to really resist the upgrade itch this time. As long as I do my part to make it happy (by staying far away from AGESA 1207/1208), this CPU has been rock solid. Actually a little surprised it's been so no-frills. Between this 5800X3D and replacement 5700G I think my luck might finally be turning around......

Besides, I gotta rep the beloved Impact, not many of us around

Considering that I've spent all my spare cash on upgrades during covid, and also considering that Zen 4 should serve me nicely for at least the next 5-6 years, resisting will be easier than usual for me this time around. Or maybe I'll just buy a Radeon 7700 XT to match my Ryzen 7700X, we'll see.

It held up a lot better than I expected, to be fair. Tough little CPU!

 

[Klemc]

I will become an AMD owner soon, i already have an APU 4650G Probut in a DeskMini X300, that works well at 45w without XMP. I don't even know if XMP enabled will make the PC asking more power, that i don't want.

I think about 7950X3D, for the bottlenecked 4070ti i own in the PC i use to play games and nothing else (from emulators to only 2D or 3D intensive games).

I would hae waited the 7800X3D, but it's june/edit:april (4/6/2023) instead end of month (2/28/2023)

EDIT, i mistakenly read june bc i'm French and date formats... so i could easyly wait 7800.