NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Founders Edition

[Gucky]

I agree with you but i think the TI version should have 16GB vRAM and 100$ less and this one should be ~499$ / 12GB vRAM, i was considering to get an RTX 3070 before all of this talking about 8GB is not enough anymore (i tend to keep cards for a good period of time, i rarely game but i like to set graphics highest possible when i do) and i was looking at the 4070, at 500$ i would have just grab it but at 600$ im thinking twice, maybe something nice from AMD will show up. (edit: problem is you dont find them at MSRP , mostly 100$ more i think)

Yes, sadly Nvidia made the decision not to use a cut down AD103, which i don't understand... AD104 does not have the Memorybus for 16GB.
But if I compare the 6800XT vs the 4070... similar performance, 16GB vs 12GB. But Nvidia has much better RT and even DLSS3 for a 100$ markup...nothing has changed, the also had this markup last gen.

Yes you're right and no you're wrong.
Let's get the wrong out of the way first: It's not inflation. A $299 GPU from 2010 would only cost $414 today if inflation was the reason. Inflation doesn't even begin to cover the price doubling - it's a minor factor at best.

What you're right about is that people do need to accept GPUs are more expensive now; There's more to the cost of a card than die size, because the GTX 660Ti from over 10 years ago cost $300 and I picked it because it has the same ~300mm die size as this RTX 4070. The other differences, which are what drives the price up, are as follows:

Yes the smaller the die, the more expensive it gets...and Nvidia even used a custom Node, which is even more expensive.
3nm will probably even more expensive. Either Nvidia uses an even smaller die, or you have to pay more. There is not much room left till <1nm.
Nvidia did both this gen, raised the prices and made smaller dies. Nvidia knew that they couldn't raise the price of the 4090 much more, they saw it with the 3090Ti, but they still had a huge markup from the huge 3090 price.

The 3070 is BIGGER then the 4080...but the 4080 die is much more expensive to make.
The 4070Ti is <10% bigger as the 3060...
If you look at that, the 4080 is 80% faster as the similar sized 3070Ti.
The 4070Ti is 120% faster as the similar sized 3060...
(TPU relative Performance numbers/GPU database)
If you think about that, the jump is HUGE.

Of course Nvidia just wants one thing...money...
But nobody HAS to buy GPUs...you could wait until the GPUs are discounted.

As this point AMD has the better strategy with using chiplets. Since prices increase exponentionally with die-size.
And AMD didn't use a custom node, if they did the 7900XTX might be able to best the 4090, but at a 30-50% higher price.

The 4070 is not bad for someone with an old or low class GPU to upgrade to, if you want RT. But useless for 3080 owners.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

The 4070 is not bad for someone with an old or low class GPU to upgrade to, if you want RT. But useless for 3080 owners.

Well....yeah.....how many ways are there to say "no shit sherlock?"

Of course the 4070 isnt going to be a good upgrade for a 3080 owner. Why on EARTH would you upgrade every generation, to a lower tier card, and expect an improvement? Upgrading every gen from the same tier is already a huge waste of money, and has been for over a decade.

 

[mb194dc]

Pretty similar price performance to 6800xt released 2+ years ago.?

 

[ir_cow]

@HaKN ! Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

"I know the cost of everything went up by 50% and our wages went up from 2018 but everything should cost the same it did 10 years ago!"

Well....yeah.....how many ways are there to say "no shit sherlock?"

Of course the 4070 isnt going to be a good upgrade for a 3080 owner. Why on EARTH would you upgrade every generation, to a lower tier card, and expect an improvement? Upgrading every gen from the same tier is already a huge waste of money, and has been for over a decade.

While I don't think things should cost the same, I'm actually quite happy Nvidia makes crazy gpu's like the 3090/4090 that cost 1500+ and offer a nice amount of vram. I still think the 70 tier has really lost a lot of what made it so appealing it use to be the card that people could look at where it offered similar to 80 class performance at a decent discount and usually outperformed or at least matched the previous generation Ti product with Turing it took a step back with the 2070 and then with the 3070 we got a little of that back although I feel it should have had more vram now with the 4070 not only are gamers expected to pay more they are getting generally less for their money.

I'm not going to sit here like some and say Nvidia is ripping gamers off but if the reality is this is the best we get for 600 usd that's just a little sad. This is a disappointing product that just offers enough to not be outright bad.

Don't get me wrong plenty of people are going to buy this and enjoy it for the next couple years but it does make me a little worried about the health of PC gaming when the only Nvidia card with Adequate vram starts at 600 usd

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

While I don't think things should cost the same, I'm actually quite happy Nvidia makes crazy gpu's like the 3090/4090 that cost 1500+ and offer a nice amount of vram. I still think the 70 tier has really lost a lot of what made it so appealing it use to be the card that people could look at where it offered similar to 80 class performance at a decent discount and usually outperformed or at least matched the previous generation Ti product with Turing it took a step back with the 2070 and then with the 3070 we got a little of that back although I feel it should have had more vram now with the 4070 not only are gamers expected to pay more they are getting generally less for their money.

I'm not going to sit here like some and say Nvidia is ripping gamers off but if the reality is this is the best we get for 600 usd that's just a little sad. This is a disappointing product that just offers enough to not be outright bad.

Don't get me wrong plenty of people are going to buy this but it does make me a little worried about the health of PC gaming when the only Nvidia card with Adequate vram starts at 600 usd

The health of the PC gaming market will be just fine. Consoles went from $200-300 with $60 games to $600 wit $70 games and that has done absolutely nothing to stop them.

It sucks the 7 series are now $600, but 2.5 years ago when the 3000 and RX 6000s came out, we were still in the middle of increasing the world's money supply by 50%+. The prices they launched at back then are simply unrealistic today.

 

[eldon_magi]

The health of the PC gaming market will be just fine. Consoles went from $200-300 with $60 games to $600 wit $70 games and that has done absolutely nothing to stop them.

It sucks the 7 series are now $600, but 2.5 years ago when the 3000 and RX 6000s came out, we were still in the middle of increasing the world's money supply by 50%+. The prices they launched at back then are simply unrealistic today.

The chad player here buys physical gold for $600, and uses that to buy a 5090Ti 12 months later.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Yes you're right and no you're wrong.
Let's get the wrong out of the way first: It's not inflation. A $299 GPU from 2010 would only cost $414 today if inflation was the reason. Inflation doesn't even begin to cover the price doubling - it's a minor factor at best.

What you're right about is that people do need to accept GPUs are more expensive now; There's more to the cost of a card than die size, because the GTX 660Ti from over 10 years ago cost $300 and I picked it because it has the same ~300mm die size as this RTX 4070. The other differences, which are what drives the price up, are as follows:

• More VRM phases using more capable (and more expensive) MOSFETS that require more cooling
• Premium GDDR(6)X instead of regular GDDR
• VRAM cooling, if you even got any in 2012, was usually just a stamped plate. GDDR6 and GDDR6X need proper cooling.
• Multi-heatpipe, CNC-machined all-metal multi-layer heatsink, baseplate, backplate with 2+ fans rather than 2012's plastic shroud over a simple skived copper block or maybe on higher-end cards a small heatsink by today's standards with around one-quarter the surface area.
• PCIe 4.0 in the same physical slot as PCIe 2.0 requires higher-quality PCBs, more layers, more copper, and more SMC components. We saw that issue even in something as simple as a PCIe 4.0 ribbon cable was quadruple the cost and half of them were borderline unstable at PCIe 4.0 even then!
• Physical rigidity and size has to increase with the weight/size of today's cooling requirements. Backplates, support arms, additional bolt-throughs for baseplates all add to the cost of manufacture, raw materials, and also the shipping/handling costs for every single part of the chain from Taiwan to your door. A tier-equivalent GPU box now weighs a good 50% more than it did a decade ago and you can probably only fit half as many of them on a shipping container, so shipping costs have doubled right there.

If we didn't want to pay any more than inflation-adjusted costs, we'd be getting power delivery, cooling, PCB quality, and build-quality of cards from the bad old days - and it's likely that a modern GPU would simply refuse to work and be impossible to build with the limitations of yesteryear's cheaper, simpler components and cooling.

I'd add into that you have geopolitical issues adding cost.

China's wages are still rising, as is quality of life
Cost of energy has increased
Cost of transportation has more then doubled
Tariffs on technology and all that implies
Exponential increase in cost of wafers (from $2500 in 2012 to $17000 today).

We've picked the low hanging fruit that made tech constantly get cheaper, going forwards costs will likely continue to rise as improvements become more difficult to achieve.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The health of the PC gaming market will be just fine. Consoles went from $200-300 with $60 games to $600 wit $70 games and that has done absolutely nothing to stop them.

It sucks the 7 series are now $600, but 2.5 years ago when the 3000 and RX 6000s came out, we were still in the middle of increasing the world's money supply by 50%+. The prices they launched at back then are simply unrealistic today.

My worry isn't the 600 usd 4070 per se it's if this is the best Nvidia can offer at 600 usd how bad are the $250-400 options going to be that most pc gamers seem to buy.

 

[Selaya]

to be fair the average mainstream gamer is likely fine w/ something like 1080-60, and for that even the 3050 is mostly fine.
i do wish we'd get a more competitive $200 bracket but alas

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

My worry isn't the 600 usd 4070 per se it's if this is the best Nvidia can offer at 600 usd how bad are the $250-400 options going to be that most pc gamers seem to buy.

Well the $250 buyers are going to have to admit to themselves they are in the position of $100 cards 5 years ago, you will need to make sacrifices.

At $400 you'll likely see a lot of RX 6000s or RTX 2000/3000 cards used.

to be fair the average mainstream gamer is likely fine w/ something like 1080-60, and for that even the 3050 is mostly fine.
i do wish we'd get a more competitive $200 bracket but alas

Or that too.

 

[Bwaze]

What you're right about is that people do need to accept GPUs are more expensive now...

No, I don't think they NEED to. We can go play with other things. Or continue to use their old cards. And if the huge AI bet of Nvidia into which they're placing all their hopes doesn't materialize, and if new cryptomining craze doesn't start soon, they will be forced to maybe consider a bit less profit on a single card.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Well the $250 buyers are going to have to admit to themselves they are in the position of $100 cards 5 years ago, you will need to make sacrifices.

At $400 you'll likely see a lot of RX 6000s or RTX 2000/3000 cards used.


Or that too.

Maybe I'm unique but it's went from wow I'm excited for this new GPU generation to wow I wonder what they are going to charge for that.......I can afford a 4090 and likely a 5090 whenever they release so alot of this doesn't matter but I would love a theoretical 5070 to match or beat my 4090 for 500 usd just so more people can experience that level of performance just one generation later. I'm a little bummed that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

to be fair the average mainstream gamer is likely fine w/ something like 1080-60, and for that even the 3050 is mostly fine.
i do wish we'd get a more competitive $200 bracket but alas

Yeah that bracket has been pretty much abandoned since like the 580/570/1060

 

[Cheeseball]

64 ROPs? Really? The RTX 3070 was 96 ROPs, on a 256-bit memory bus. Yes, it exceeds the performance of the previous generation quite well, but spec-wise this really should've been the RTX 4060 (192-bit memory bus, 48-to-64 ROPs). Since the pricing is pretty messed up, it looks like it'll have to sit at the 70-class level. I would be more forgiving if it was at least $100-$150 cheaper.

Performance-wise, its basically a RTX 3080.

Power consumption-wise, I like it. 235W peak compared to the RTX 3070's 283W and RTX 2070 Super/RX 5700 XT's 250W previously is actually impressive. The RX 6700/6750 XT don't hold a candle to this.

 

[Why_Me]

Congratulations nVidia you have made an efficient RTX 3080 for $100 less. Rejoice! This is pathetic. Remember the gains the 3070 had over the 2080? Pepperidge Farm remembers. And they remember it being atleast noticeable, unlike this one.

Also, @W1zzard this is a 1440p card and the 3080 in your own graph shows it being IDENTICAL any small differences at other resolutions don't matter because an extra 2% @1080p (a resolution I seriously doubt people would be buying this card for) is impossible to notice without a framerate counter on.

$100 less, two more GB of VRAM, far more efficient, DLSS3 (if you're into that). What am I missing here?

 

[HaKN !]

@HaKN ! Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

????????

 

[Chrispy_]

No, I don't think they NEED to. We can go play with other things. Or continue to use their old cards. And if the huge AI bet of Nvidia into which they're placing all their hopes doesn't materialize, and if new cryptomining craze doesn't start soon, they will be forced to maybe consider a bit less profit on a single card.

I have a Steam Deck. It's running a frickin' 15W APU with integrated graphics and I can still enjoy the overwhelming majority of my gaming library on it.
I have plenty of gaming friends with 900-series or 10-series Geforce cards and 1080p monitors. They are doing just fine at reduced settings and 1080p60. And by just fine I mean kicking my ass.

It's important never to lose focus that good graphics do not make a bad game good. A game has to have good gameplay first and foremost. Everything else is just a bonus and if I have the resources to game at 1440p240 Ultra or 4K120 on a massive OLED, it's indulgunce rather than a necessity.

My worry isn't the 600 usd 4070 per se it's if this is the best Nvidia can offer at 600 usd how bad are the $250-400 options going to be that most pc gamers seem to buy.

The value is usually at its best with the x60 or x60Ti models. As you get down to lower end cards like the 3050 and RX6400 there is too much fixed cost to manufacturing, shipping, and selling any card to make the bottom of the range worth buying.

The 1060 6GB was the best performance/$ of the Pascal generation
The 2060S was the best performance/$ of the Turing generation
The 3060Ti was the best performance/$ of the Ampere generation
I'm hoping the 4060Ti is the best performance/$ of the Ada generation, but I'm worried Nvidia will make it an 8GB card, which would have been dumbf*ck stupid in 2022, let alone 2023.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The value is usually at its best with the x60 or x60Ti models. As you get down to lower end cards like the 3050 and RX6400 there is too much fixed cost to manufacturing, shipping, and selling any card to make the bottom of the range worth buying.

The 1060 6GB was the best performance/$ of the Pascal generation
The 2060S was the best performance/$ of the Turing generation
The 3060Ti was the best performance/$ of the Ampere generation
I'm hoping the 4060Ti is the best performance/$ of the Ada generation, but I'm worried Nvidia will make it an 8GB card, which would have been dumbf*ck stupid in 2022, let alone 2023.

Same, and as much as I'm not impressed with the 4070 at least it fixes the vram issue of the 3070 has but longevity wise I'm not sure if 20% more was enough but time will tell I guess.

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

Yes, sadly Nvidia made the decision not to use a cut down AD103, which i don't understand... AD104 does not have the Memorybus for 16GB.
But if I compare the 6800XT vs the 4070... similar performance, 16GB vs 12GB. But Nvidia has much better RT and even DLSS3 for a 100$ markup...nothing has changed, the also had this markup last gen.

Yes the smaller the die, the more expensive it gets...and Nvidia even used a custom Node, which is even more expensive.
3nm will probably even more expensive. Either Nvidia uses an even smaller die, or you have to pay more. There is not much room left till <1nm.
Nvidia did both this gen, raised the prices and made smaller dies. Nvidia knew that they couldn't raise the price of the 4090 much more, they saw it with the 3090Ti, but they still had a huge markup from the huge 3090 price.

The 3070 is BIGGER then the 4080...but the 4080 die is much more expensive to make.
The 4070Ti is <10% bigger as the 3060...
If you look at that, the 4080 is 80% faster as the similar sized 3070Ti.
The 4070Ti is 120% faster as the similar sized 3060...
(TPU relative Performance numbers/GPU database)
If you think about that, the jump is HUGE.

Of course Nvidia just wants one thing...money...
But nobody HAS to buy GPUs...you could wait until the GPUs are discounted.

As this point AMD has the better strategy with using chiplets. Since prices increase exponentionally with die-size.
And AMD didn't use a custom node, if they did the 7900XTX might be able to best the 4090, but at a 30-50% higher price.

The 4070 is not bad for someone with an old or low class GPU to upgrade to, if you want RT. But useless for 3080 owners.

It's not just node cost. Look at the PCB size and all the stuff on it and then compare it to cheaper cards of years past. These things cost vastly more to engineer, design, produce, supply, and make.

If you want better and faster the cost will always go up. Do you want better graphics? Congrats it's going to cost you more. Want better graphics again, you just asked for a price increase again.

If you want cheaper GPUs you need to ask for worse graphics and less powerful parts. That is the only way to bring down prices.

People don't want to admit that the gamers demanding more graphics is the reason things got this way. They brought it on themselves and are now stomping their little footsies demanding companies lose money because gaming.

 

[Selaya]

[ ... ]
The value is usually at its best with the x60 or x60Ti models. As you get down to lower end cards like the 3050 and RX6400 there is too much fixed cost to manufacturing, shipping, and selling any card to make the bottom of the range worth buying.

The 1060 6GB was the best performance/$ of the Pascal generation
The 2060S was the best performance/$ of the Turing generation
The 3060Ti was the best performance/$ of the Ampere generation
I'm hoping the 4060Ti is the best performance/$ of the Ada generation, but I'm worried Nvidia will make it an 8GB card, which would have been dumbf*ck stupid in 2022, let alone 2023.

i'd say all the OG amperes (3060ti, 3070 & 3080) @ msrp had great value. (coincidentally, it is also the only (recent) generation whose flagship (x80ti or x90) didn't run three circles around everything else. curious, innit?)

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It's not just node cost. Look at the PCB size and all the stuff on it and then compare it to cheaper cards of years past. These things cost vastly more to engineer, design, produce, supply, and make.

If you want better and faster the cost will always go up. Do you want better graphics? Congrats it's going to cost you more. Want better graphics again, you just asked for a price increase again.

If you want cheaper GPUs you need to ask for worse graphics and less powerful parts. That is the only way to bring down prices.

People don't want to admit that the gamers demanding more graphics is the reason things got this way. They brought it on themselves and are now stomping their little footsies demanding companies lose money because gaming.

Yeah, 25-30% more performance for 20% more money 2 years later hmmm so exciting where do I get in line to buy this turd so I can gift it to someone I don't like.

 

[Hecate91]

No, I don't think they NEED to. We can go play with other things. Or continue to use their old cards. And if the huge AI bet of Nvidia into which they're placing all their hopes doesn't materialize, and if new cryptomining craze doesn't start soon, they will be forced to maybe consider a bit less profit on a single card.

Rather than accept it I think people will just hang onto their old cards, Nvidia has completely ignored the $300 GPU market that people used to switch from console to build a PC.
I have always preferred PC gaming, although console sounds like a much better deal when you can get a PS5 and a decent 4k tv for less than it costs to build a PC.

It's not just node cost. Look at the PCB size and all the stuff on it and then compare it to cheaper cards of years past. These things cost vastly more to engineer, design, produce, supply, and make.

If you want better and faster the cost will always go up. Do you want better graphics? Congrats it's going to cost you more. Want better graphics again, you just asked for a price increase again.

If you want cheaper GPUs you need to ask for worse graphics and less powerful parts. That is the only way to bring down prices.

People don't want to admit that the gamers demanding more graphics is the reason things got this way. They brought it on themselves and are now stomping their little footsies demanding companies lose money because gaming.

The PCB size is about half of what previous gen cards were, board component cost should go down over time, and the 4070 is power efficient, power draw is the only the thing the 4070 has going for it, so it doesn't need a ton of VRM's, or a massive 4 slot cooler.
The more better more expensive logic only applies to Nvidia, look at the progress gained on CPU's, significantly faster with more cores, yet pricing has stayed the same for the most part despite how complex CPU's are.
And its because of Nvidia's desire to keep up their mining hype level of profit margins, while putting smaller dies on the PCB yet charging more. The consumers brought this on themselves by paying 2X over the MSRP during shortages and the mining craze.
The 4070 only being as good as a 3080 10GB for $600 is stagnation, but Nvidia buyers and reviewers are still praising Nvidia for it, also TPU giving this card an "editors choice" award.

 

[bug]

The relevance is that Wizzard only does a one off run with almost everycard and then people dosent really get the whole picture and spout that the RX 6000 series is power hogs for no reason.

Well, then he must do one hell of a run, managing to put the same numbers in the reviews on tom's or pcgamer. (I know, that only means a slight adjustment to the conspiracy you were hinting at.)

 

[Lew Zealand]

$100 less, two more GB of VRAM, far more efficient, DLSS3 (if you're into that). What am I missing here?

What you're missing is that over 2-1/2 years later, those improvements are pretty thin.

The 4070 is a good card, all the current Gen cards are and almost all previous Gen cards were. The problem here is pricing.

 

[Magician]

Performance-wise, this is what the 4060 Ti should've been. At $450 USD thereabouts, this card trading blows with a 3080 would be a win and a decent successor (as the 3060 Ti beat the 2080).

But a $600, 4070 would really need to smoke a 3080 Ti to be worth the expense in my opinion. So overall, a big disappointment. 3080 performance for $100 lower MSRP two years later is not a victory.

However, the 2-slot design and power efficiency is excellent, so it isn't a complete bust. But like the rest of the Nvidia lineup, it needs 150-200 USD removed from the pricetag.

Oh, and TPU? Please be less liberal with your Editor's Choice awards. The only Lovelace card that has truly earned it is the 4090. All the others are great cards with the wrong prices.