NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Founders Edition

[Dr. Dro]

Using eBay for such cases


Problem is that they've been lying about MSRP for the past years, and unless we stop looking at MSRP, they will continue to do so

I see, marketplaces such as eBay have quite volatile pricing as well, given that the entire site is generally a front for multiple sellers and buyers from all walks of life, but in general I agree. Nvidia in particular has been quite economical with the truth regarding their pricing lately.

 

[Max(IT)]

Do you feel that using MSRP (HUB) is a better approach for such an analysis than current pricing (me)?

It has pros and cons…

Current pricing is highly influenced by Radeon very low demand / aging.
It’s not wrong, technically speaking, but it could put you in the unusual situation of comparing 2 cards from very different classes (like a 6950XT with an RTX 4070).
Also 4070 price will drop after a while, if the demand is less strong than expected.

 

[W1zzard]

MSRP is still enforced in Asia for both Nvidia/AMD, so TPU pricing is wayyyyy offf

Wait, what, in your country a RX 6800 XT costs $650? and a 3070 $500 ?

 

[MarsM4N]

Every single RTX 4070 related thread literally is infested by AMD supporters desperately trying to defend their beloved brand.
reality check, this is where Radeon user base is:

View attachment 291322

Yes, you are right, it’s right in the bottom of the list. With all its glorious 16 GB VRAM.

This is happening in many tech websites (here, Videocardz, Guru3D, fortunately on Tom’sHw is a little bit better). AMD user base is very vocal about defending their products. It really reminds me about Apple’s.
Maybe that’s the reason why AMD isn’t really improving , quality wise.

Which is no surprise. AMD's GPU market share is around 9% (Nvidia ~80%). So no wonder you mostly see Nvidia cards. Also you need to learn how to read statistics. Taking into account the low market share from AMD, the 6800XT must still have sold very well. RTX3090 = 0.43%, RTX3080 = not listed (huh?), 6800XT = 0.15%.

Given the market conditions I am more surprised the high end cards sold so well. So economy can't be that bad like people say. Or Steam send out their hardware surveys to mining farms, lol.

 

[W1zzard]

but it could put you in the unusual situation of comparing 2 cards from very different classes (like a 6950XT with an RTX 4070).

and isn't that the right thing to do? RX 6950 XT is definitely worth considering when shopping for a RTX 4070 ?

 

[nguyen]

Wait, what, a RX 6800 XT costs $650? and a 3070 $500 ?

kinda, this is one of the biggest retailer in Japan that i frequently buy from

 

[R0H1T]

Yes, because no one is using Steam as a gaming platform, right ?

Yes because it's so reliable &/or scientific right? And speaking of gaming platform maybe you missed the 200~300 million AMD powered consoles out there!

MSRP is still enforced in Asia for both Nvidia/AMD, so TPU pricing is wayyyyy offf

No, unless you think 1.4 billion market doesn't count?

 

[Max(IT)]

Using eBay for such cases


Problem is that they've been lying about MSRP for the past years, and unless we stop looking at MSRP, they will continue to do so

I don’t know about where you are living, but here in Europe I wouldn’t buy a graphic card on eBay…
That e-store is becoming more and more irrelevant , at least for this stuff.

 

[W1zzard]

I don’t know about where you are living, but here in Europe I wouldn’t buy a graphic card on eBay…
That e-store is becoming more and more irrelevant , at least for this stuff.

I live in Germany, but use eBay USA for these prices, and do not pick the cheapest seller, but what looks like a reasonable middle ground

If you don't use eBay, where do people sell their used graphics cards?

 

[Max(IT)]

Yes because it's so reliable &/or scientific right? And speaking of gaming platform maybe you missed the 200~300 million AMD powered consoles out there!

Yes, it is. You connect, your hw is reported. It’s that easy.

Who cares about AMD powered consoles ? We are speaking about discrete graphic cards…

 

[Garrus]

So 26 percent faster at 1440p, 20 percent more expensive.

That's a single digit increase in perf/dollar. Ugh. Wait for the 5070 If you have to buy new, it makes sense I suppose, but it makes more sense to wait.

 

[R0H1T]

Yeah that's not how Steam surveys work.

Steam Hardware Survey Reveals Bizarre Statistic for Most Popular Language In March

Valve's latest Steam Hardware Survey comes back with a strange statistic for what the most popular language was on the platform in March of 2023.

gamerant.com

 

[Dr. Dro]

Wait, what, a RX 6800 XT costs $650? and a 3070 $500 ?

In Brazil's largest hardware store (KaBuM!), the cheapest 3070 (MSI Ventus 3X Plus OC LHR) is currently priced at 3699 BRL, so about $752 USD, provided you pay up front (it is more expensive with financing/credit card). Given the way import taxes and distributor profit works in our internal market, that's very much a 3070 available at MSRP. Only took them two years.

Their Gaming X Trio 4090 is also available for a cool 11299 BRL up front, which is... admittedly less than the fat wad of cash that I parted with for my ASUS 3090 at launch (13K). That amounts to a very similar $2250 in current exchange rates, though, so the ratio of taxes/operating profit for the distributors seem to be roughly the same.

I would guess in general cards at MSRP kind of do exist in the B2B channel, it's just that they aren't readily available at that price to end-users for many factors, and that people's wallets no longer comport products of such a high price due to the economy's health in general. A $600 flagship with cheaper, performant products that are placed accordingly in the ladder is desperately needed, the same product stack that we had in the Fermi days. That's probably a pipe dream nowadays, though.

 

[Max(IT)]

I live in Germany, but use eBay USA for these prices, and do not pick the cheapest seller, but what looks like a reasonable middle ground

If you don't use eBay, where do people sell their used graphics cards?

I currently live in the Netherlands… and see a lot of people selling used cards on different, local platforms (like Marktplaats).
Same in Italy, where I come from.

I think US market is a completely different story.

 

[W1zzard]

on different, local platforms

Yeah we have eBay Kleinanzeigen, too (not owned by eBay anymore), but I doubt their volume is comparable to eBay. I also don't think something similar exists in the US

 

[Max(IT)]

Yeah that's not how Steam surveys work.

Steam Hardware Survey Reveals Bizarre Statistic for Most Popular Language In March

Valve's latest Steam Hardware Survey comes back with a strange statistic for what the most popular language was on the platform in March of 2023.

gamerant.com

That’s how it works. Every months a random number of users are asked to join the survey. Not always the same people. Steam data are very reliable
I don’t care if AMD users are not happy about it: it doesn’t change facts.

 

[R0H1T]

And how does that random number tell you anything about reliability? From that story itself ~

The latest hardware survey conducted for March 2023, on the other hand, plainly states that the grand total of 52.70% of all Steam PC gamers uses Simplified Chinese as their language of choice, up by 25%, with English holding the second place with a comparatively meager 21.65% of total users relying on it.

So did half of China just get hardware surveys all at once or they signed up on Steam in one go? Also you said once you connect to the internet, that's not the same as users getting random surveys! So maybe stop digging?

 

[nguyen]

I live in Germany, but use eBay USA for these prices, and do not pick the cheapest seller, but what looks like a reasonable middle ground

If you don't use eBay, where do people sell their used graphics cards?

You know people use online forums (such as TPU), Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, etc... to sell their used graphics cards, prices can vary quite a bit from region to region too.

Quoting Fleabay price to compare price to perf is just irrelevant, might as well just remove that page LOL

 

[Max(IT)]

Yeah we have eBay Kleinanzeigen, too (not owned by eBay anymore), but I doubt their volume is comparable to eBay. I also don't think something similar exists in the US

generally speaking, I think it’s quite difficult to speak about “street price” since it could be quite different worldwide.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. It’s just a grey area.

And how does that random number tell you anything about reliability? From that story itself ~

So did half of China just get hardware surveys all at once or they signed up on Steam in one go? Also you said once you connect to the internet, that's not the same as users getting random surveys! So maybe stop digging?

You AMD fans are fantastic …
Everything puts AMD under a bad light must be wrong.

 

[R0H1T]

Get your facts straight then talk!

 

[W1zzard]

Quoting Fleabay price to compare price to perf is just irrelevant, might as well just remove that page LOL

How about you do your own research first before shitting on my work. Show me your list of US street prices and I'm happy to revise my page

 

[R0H1T]

Wait, what, a RX 6800 XT costs $650? and a 3070 $500 ?

The 6800XT is cheaper in many places, 3070 is way more expensive than $500 at least online here.

 

[Dr. Dro]

and isn't that the right thing to do? RX 6950 XT is definitely worth considering when shopping for a RTX 4070 ?

IMO, it will rely entirely on price, there are very strong considerations when comparing the RX 6950 XT to the 4070:

- Ada dual 8th Gen NVENC capabilities vs. VCN 3.0 for video recording and streaming
- Significantly more stable and robust driver software
- Large discrepancy in their raytracing performance capabilities
...and the most important of all which I'm sure it impressed me as much as impressed you: this is the first high-performance, 1x 8-pin GPU since the GTX 1080.

Sub-200W even under heavy RT workload? My 3090 wouldn't even *dream* of doing that, no matter how much I held its clock speeds back. The same can be said for the 3090 Ti and the 6950 XT, that alone opens up a world of possibilities for the RTX 4070, will enable it to be used in more systems of more form factors without straining the cooling or power supply, and it does so without giving up on anything.

I would argue that unless you can buy either the 6950 XT for $100 less than a 4070, and that your system can already manage and doesn't need to be designed around its heat/power requirements, it's just not worth it. At that point, its 16 GB VRAM doesn't even matter, because both cards will croak to less than acceptable frame rates before 12 GB is reasonably demanded of. That leaves the 3090 Ti out as the single black sheep of all recent graphics cards, it's too expensive and doesn't deliver, yet because of its adequate performance and very large memory amount, it's just not getting cheaper any time soon. Which is a shame, a discount 3090 Ti for around $600... I think I would buy it over either of these cards.

 

[nguyen]

How about you do your own research first before shitting on my work. Show me your list of US street prices and I'm happy to revise my page

You might want to try pcpartpicker, which compare prices from B&H, Newegg, Bestbuy, Amazon, etc...

Not that US price is all that important though, but if you insist on US prices....

 

[btk2k2]

1060 matched the 980 for $300 and the 2060 matched the 1080 for $350. This absolutely should be a 4060 and be priced around $400. At $600 it might be the best value new card but it is the best in a rotten lot and to be honest I can see it starting to falter at 1440p in a year or so as RT becomes more wide spread. I don't think that is acceptable for a new $600 card.