Help me with my thesis - Researching consumer perceptions, obsolescence, and electronics.

[bonehead123]

Everything, everywhere, all the time, all at once, all things electronic become/go obsolete or borked...

The real question is: Why does it have to be this way....

And the answer is: Greed

 

[The Student]

I saw the damage on the old unit and so looked what was better locally, so when I saw a stainless option, I went for it; I just didn't want to do the work more than once.

What I like best is when I locate a broken component and find the replacement part has been updated; then I feel the original problem will probably not return.

Are you of the perception that 'older' products were created to last, or do you think that is just a romanticized view?

Everything, everywhere, all the time, all at once, all things electronic become/go obsolete or borked...

The real question is: Why does it have to be this way....

And the answer is: Greed

Thank you for the input! - and sorry for the late response

Do you think greed is the only aspect to it? Please enlighten me about your thoughts of it. (and everybody else's view as well)

• Couldn't innovation be labeled as the main reason for obsolescence, either absolute (where things breaks) or relative (where we as consumers just want an upgrade)?
• Isn't obsolescence a good way to spike the economy, while we are getting new gadgets?

 

[Shrek]

Are you of the perception that 'older' products were created to last, or do you think that is just a romanticized view?

When it comes to cars, those of old did not last a fraction of modern ones.

 

[Kyan]

Are you of the perception that 'older' products were created to last, or do you think that is just a romanticized view?

I think it was somewhat true, a lot of thing where not over-engineered for nothing, and was much simpler in how they work and how they can be repaired.

 

[Lei]

Are you then willing to pay more for products that either have an extended warranty, known for their durability, or are you actively seeking products with a modular architecture that allows you to replace parts 'easily' by yourself?

Of course I like modular products like lego.
I replaced my Bluetooth headphones battery from original 100mAh to 1200mAh. It was designed to need recharging every 2 days, with new battery it still has 60% charge after 2 weeks...

I also try and keep things running, but sometimes this is not a good idea; fixing a CRT TV/Monitor for example as they consume so much electricity.

Sometimes I buy something old just because I can throw it in the operation room and make a zombie out of it. When I was about to start watercooling, I wanted an old cheap gpu as guinea pig.

When it comes to cars, those of old did not last a fraction of modern ones.

Would you buy a used Porsche over a new Toyota? Considering the Porsche costs just 10% more and was driven for 6~8 years.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

Hello everyone,
I'm a new member looking for help with my master thesis (which I hope is within your guidelines).

I have been lurking at the community for quite a while, experiencing how insightful you all are.

I'm doing a research project focusing on consumer's perception towards the concept of obsolescence / planned obsolescence, specifically in household level electronic devices. Thus, everyone with an opinion, experience, or even just owning an electronic device is interesting to me!

As the main method used is netnography, everything is expected to happen online, preferably in written format.
So, if you would like to answer a few question as an “interview”, share opinions and experiences, or just have any question to me or my study. Please let me know!

In advance, thank you very much.

Best regards.

To be honest, you would have a much easier time using your campus library to research this stuff as they will have online databases loaded with statistics/facts, not to mention it would make doing your works cited page less of a nightmare depending on the format(I would assume your particular Master Thesis requires APA).

 

[Shrek]

Would you buy a used Porsche over a new Toyota? Considering the Porsche costs just 10% more and was driven for 6~8 years.

Absolutely not; the Toyota is reliable and gas sipping.

 

[bonehead123]

Do you think greed is the only aspect to it? Please enlighten me about your thoughts of it. (and everybody else's view as well)

• Couldn't innovation be labeled as the main reason for obsolescence, either absolute (where things breaks) or relative (where we as consumers just want an upgrade)?
• Isn't obsolescence a good way to spike the economy, while we are getting new gadgets?

Yes, innovation CAN be a driving factor for obsolescence in many cases, when used correctly, however, problem(s) can arise when:

A) The new item is NOT backwards compatible with older device(s).. hello W11 & it's so-called TPM requirement
B) Support for the older item is stopped/dropped too soon after the new device is released, making the old one essentially useless once it cannot support any new features

And yes, a lot of the time, we consumers just WANT an upgrade, just because we desire (and are willing to pay for) fancy new gadgets with all the most recent bells & whistles

Take cars for example:

One of my cars is a 2009 model. No, it doesn't have a touch screen, navigation, android/apple auto, or any other uber-techy stuff. HOWEVER, it does have remote start/unlock, digital ecm, and power everything. No, it isn't as pretty as it once was, but it has over 200K miles on it, has never failed to start, runs like a champ while getting ~30mpg, and can STILL do 0-60 in about 9 seconds, which is plenty fast for any normal human being IMHO... plus, I can still get reasonably priced parts for it from multiple vendors, it doesn't cost ~$1k just to run friggin diagnostics on it with a $100K machine, insurance for it is cheap, and the best part: It's was paid for a long time ago !

Would I LIKE to have a 2023/24 model ? Perhaps... do I NEED one ? NOPE, at least not until the one above dies

As for "spiking" the economy, if you meant "growing" the economy, there many other factors involved other than planned obsolescence that requires people to continuously buy new stuff....(local/regional/world politics, employment/unemployment, energy stability, monetary policies) just to name a few...so that's really not a valid point, at least not on it's own anyways....

 

[The Student]

Yes, innovation CAN be a driving factor for obsolescence in many cases, when used correctly, however, problem(s) can arise when:

A) The new item is NOT backwards compatible with older device(s).. hello W11 & it's so-called TPM requirement
B) Support for the older item is stopped/dropped too soon after the new device is released, making the old one essentially useless once it cannot support any new features

And yes, a lot of the time, we consumers just WANT an upgrade, just because we desire (and are willing to pay for) fancy new gadgets with all the most recent bells & whistles

Take cars for example:

One of my cars is a 2009 model. No, it doesn't have a touch screen, navigation, android/apple auto, or any other uber-techy stuff. HOWEVER, it does have remote start/unlock, digital ecm, and power everything. No, it isn't as pretty as it once was, but it has over 200K miles on it, has never failed to start, runs like a champ while getting ~30mpg, and can STILL do 0-60 in about 9 seconds, which is plenty fast for any normal human being IMHO... plus, I can still get reasonably priced parts for it from multiple vendors, it doesn't cost ~$1k just to run friggin diagnostics on it with a $100K machine, insurance for it is cheap, and the best part: It's was paid for a long time ago !

Would I LIKE to have a 2023/24 model ? Perhaps... do I NEED one ? NOPE, at least not until the one above dies

As for "spiking" the economy, if you meant "growing" the economy, there many other factors involved other than planned obsolescence that requires people to continuously buy new stuff....(local/regional/world politics, employment/unemployment, energy stability, monetary policies) just to name a few...so that's really not a valid point, at least not on it's own anyways....

Can a car even run without Apple CarPlay nowadays?

I think you are coming with some very interesting points. - Which is why I just continue to poke you

Can I ask how often you are replacing products such as; smartphones, PC's, or TV's?
- And whether you only replace products when they malfunctions?

To be honest, you would have a much easier time using your campus library to research this stuff as they will have online databases loaded with statistics/facts, not to mention it would make doing your works cited page less of a nightmare depending on the format(I would assume your particular Master Thesis requires APA).

Thank you for your consideration. I have used a loooot of time with the materials available through the library for my literature, I however have to gather 'my own' empirical data. Thus, since the main scientific method used is Netnography, where I use different techniques of participatory observation to answer the question of how netnography can be utilized to understand consumer's perception towards obsolescence. I have to understand yours experiences, perspectives, and thoughts, all of which in subjective form.

The discussions by everybody above is therefore very useful for my analysis.

If you have any questions towards mentioned methods, or anything else. You are more than welcome to write me a private message.
You are moreover very welcome to join in the conversation, or if you are up for a short written interview in private, please let me know. - Everything is much appreciated.

 

[lluvia]

No mention of the Sony Timer yet? It's still quite relevant as with the PS5 and its varying issues, such as the orientation of the console affecting the liquid metal's coverage of the CPU.

Speaking of Sony, now that they are also creating one, a car certainly is a "household level electronic device" wouldn't you say?

Most Toyota and Tesla owners see their cars as appliances that take them from point A to point B.
(The only difference between them being that the Tesla owner has much more disposable income. lol)

The reason why Toyotas have great reliability is planned obsolescence... of the driver. lol.
Toyota does not trust the average (Toyota) buyer to do proper maintenance for the car at proper intervals.
Thus the car is bullet proof for those who do literally any maintanence, and for those who don't, the car still lasts much longer than a non-Toyota.
(One example would be: While most cars use only direct injection, Toyota utilizes both port and direct injections so tha the valves remain clean, ultimately prolonging the engine's life. The fuel timing is controlled by a computer, not mechanically, so it is [arguably] an electronic device.)

Tesla on the other hand, can be considered planned obsolescence. It's by design that it can't last, especially for those who need software like Apple CarPlay, disregarding its widespread QC issues.
(Yes, I do know that Tesla doesn't have Apple Carplay/Android Auto and probably never will.)
Teslas are even more appliance-like with Lithium-based batteries that will degrade over time, even more so when exposed to the elements in comparison to a traditional ICE car.
But as with our smart-whatever, most people don't care about that fact, so long as the appliance can be used to a degree.

So then my question is whether planned obsolescence is real, or just perceived notion when an uninformed/uneducated consumer shifts to a victim mindset when that "obsolescence" is by design/nature of the appliance? There is nothing in the universe that doesn't degrade over time.

P.S. I think you should mention your country and major, then also ask your respondents what country they're from at the very least. This is still very broad but significantly changes viewpoints. Availability and appliance itself, even with the same name, can be vastly different in each country's market.

 

[kapone32]

Look at the X570 vs the X570S. Here are images of both boards. Technically the only real difference is 1 more M2 slot. When it comes to looks though you see the little things that make me fell the Ace Max is the most beautiful MB on AM4. You know that MSI must have invested in the little things (like White LED post codes) that will make a person spend $200-300 by selling the Unify and buying the Ace Max.

 

[mclaren85]

Count me in!

Look at the X570 vs the X570S. Here are images of both boards. Technically the only real difference is 1 more M2 slot. When it comes to looks though you see the little things that make me fell the Ace Max is the most beautiful MB on AM4. You know that MSI must have invested in the little things (like White LED post codes) that will make a person spend $200-300 by selling the Unify and buying the Ace Max.

View attachment 292917View attachment 292918

There's more than White LED. The RF protected sound chip, ESS Sabre DAC, 2oz thickness of copper lanes, Gold plated audio jacks are well deserved a higher price. Also, the Ace version features 4 more VRMs than Unify.

 

[kapone32]

Count me in!


There's more than White LED. The RF protected sound chip, ESS Sabre DAC, 2oz thickness of copper lanes, Gold plated audio jacks are well deserved a higher price.

I get that but looks do matter.

 

[bonehead123]

Can a car even run without Apple CarPlay nowadays?

I think you are coming with some very interesting points. - Which is why I just continue to poke you

Can I ask how often you are replacing products such as; smartphones, PC's, or TV's?
- And whether you only replace products when they malfunctions?

I generally only replace a TV/Monitor when it's picture/visual quality begins to degrade to the point that it makes it difficult to use for it's intended purpose, or it just up & dies altogether..

For pc's, I usually replace them about every 3-4 years, or whenever they can no longer keep up with new(ish) software requirements, or again, just up & dies, which BTW, has NOT happened for a very long time... I am currently running a 2 year old mini-me box with an 11th gen cpu & iGPU, if that tells you anything....

For smartphones, usually the declining battery life is the biggest reason for getting a new one, which for me is typically every 2-3 years, and even then, I normally go with the models that are 1 generation behind, instead of the latest & greatest flagships....that way I still get a great phone with great specs but NOT the platinum card price

 

[Shrek]

I generally only replace a TV/Monitor when it's picture/visual quality begins to degrade to the point that it makes it difficult to use for it's intended purpose, or it just up & dies altogether..

I find they normally just need new capacitors.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Are you of the perception that 'older' products were created to last, or do you think that is just a romanticized view?

It's not romanticized. As a general rule, the business model of "planned obsolescence" is more widespread now than it ever has been in the past. Products built in decent decades fail more easily and frequently, are more difficult to work on for repairs(or just not possible), or are made so cheaply the repairing them is a wasted effort.

 

[The Student]

No mention of the Sony Timer yet? It's still quite relevant as with the PS5 and its varying issues, such as the orientation of the console affecting the liquid metal's coverage of the CPU.

Speaking of Sony, now that they are also creating one, a car certainly is a "household level electronic device" wouldn't you say?

Most Toyota and Tesla owners see their cars as appliances that take them from point A to point B.
(The only difference between them being that the Tesla owner has much more disposable income. lol)

The reason why Toyotas have great reliability is planned obsolescence... of the driver. lol.
Toyota does not trust the average (Toyota) buyer to do proper maintenance for the car at proper intervals.
Thus the car is bullet proof for those who do literally any maintanence, and for those who don't, the car still lasts much longer than a non-Toyota.
(One example would be: While most cars use only direct injection, Toyota utilizes both port and direct injections so tha the valves remain clean, ultimately prolonging the engine's life. The fuel timing is controlled by a computer, not mechanically, so it is [arguably] an electronic device.)

Tesla on the other hand, can be considered planned obsolescence. It's by design that it can't last, especially for those who need software like Apple CarPlay, disregarding its widespread QC issues.
(Yes, I do know that Tesla doesn't have Apple Carplay/Android Auto and probably never will.)
Teslas are even more appliance-like with Lithium-based batteries that will degrade over time, even more so when exposed to the elements in comparison to a traditional ICE car.
But as with our smart-whatever, most people don't care about that fact, so long as the appliance can be used to a degree.

So then my question is whether planned obsolescence is real, or just perceived notion when an uninformed/uneducated consumer shifts to a victim mindset when that "obsolescence" is by design/nature of the appliance? There is nothing in the universe that doesn't degrade over time.

P.S. I think you should mention your country and major, then also ask your respondents what country they're from at the very least. This is still very broad but significantly changes viewpoints. Availability and appliance itself, even with the same name, can be vastly different in each country's market.

Thank you for the input, and the well described thoughts.
I agree, that it can be argued that cars has changed into a household level electronic device, at least newer models. - The car industry is moreover an 'easy' reference point to the term of obsolescence, especially when lots of literature describes it as the cradle of various obsolescence techniques.

Undoubtedly, everything degrades over time. I think it is an interesting point you are making. However, have various examples, such as the famous printer industry, been a source of rich discussions relating to planned obsolescence. But do you believe that if customers informed themselves, stopped their consuming habits, and stood up to big corporations that obsolescence (both absolute and relative) would vanish over time?

I'm of course up for informing everybody that I'm a Danish student (which explains the odd language at times), studying a master in science, in product development & innovation. Your origin is although not the crucial part here, it is just a bonus. The focus is to explore how this community sees obsolescence, which then is compared to another community.

It's not romanticized. As a general rule, the business model of "planned obsolescence" is more widespread now than it ever has been in the past. Products built in decent decades fail more easily and frequently, are more difficult to work on for repairs(or just not possible), or are made so cheaply the repairing them is a wasted effort.

Most manufacturers explain those trends with the notion of Innovation or performance. I.e., smartphone manufacturers embeds batteries to ensure a slim design, and utilize adhesive to seal it better. Are you not buying those explanations?

I generally only replace a TV/Monitor when it's picture/visual quality begins to degrade to the point that it makes it difficult to use for it's intended purpose, or it just up & dies altogether..

For pc's, I usually replace them about every 3-4 years, or whenever they can no longer keep up with new(ish) software requirements, or again, just up & dies, which BTW, has NOT happened for a very long time... I am currently running a 2 year old mini-me box with an 11th gen cpu & iGPU, if that tells you anything....

For smartphones, usually the declining battery life is the biggest reason for getting a new one, which for me is typically every 2-3 years, and even then, I normally go with the models that are 1 generation behind, instead of the latest & greatest flagships....that way I still get a great phone with great specs but NOT the platinum card price

That is also my strategy when I replace my smartphone ;-)

What are you doing with your replaced products? Are you selling it as used products, holding on to it, discarding it, or?

 

[Kyan]

Most manufacturers explain those trends with the notion of Innovation or performance. I.e., smartphone manufacturers embeds batteries to ensure a slim design, and utilize adhesive to seal it better. Are you not buying those explanations?

In response to the example of sealed battery (one of the worst thing that happened in the smartphone industry). The Galaxy S5 was slim and get a removable battery and IP protection, they prove everyone it can be done and shortly after, just make the S6 with glass and sealed battery. Only Fairphone is actually trying to make things better, theres other smaller brand too like terra, i don't know all of them. But innovation should not be done in the detriment of repairability or losing useful feature (hi Jack 3,5).

 

[lexluthermiester]

Most manufacturers explain those trends with the notion of Innovation or performance. I.e., smartphone manufacturers embeds batteries to ensure a slim design, and utilize adhesive to seal it better. Are you not buying those explanations?

Of course not. It is planned obsolesce, engineering laziness and manufacturing cost-cutting all at once. Very transparent!

 

[Lei]

Of course not. It is planned obsolesce, engineering laziness and manufacturing cost-cutting all at once. Very transparent!

They could have made the batteries thicker, and not have the cameras bump out. Then make the phone shorter to keep the weight under 200g.
Longer battery life, safer cameras, easier to pick the phone up with trimmed nails, and easier to hold than a looong taaaall screen.

For smartphones, usually the declining battery life is the biggest reason for getting a new one, which for me is typically every 2-3 years, and even then, I normally go with the models that are 1 generation behind, instead of the latest & greatest flagships....that way I still get a great phone with great specs but NOT the platinum card price

Don't charge your battery to 100%
Charge to 70% (the point charging becomes slower)

This will make your battery live 3 times longer. 8~9 years instead of 2~3 years.
And just replace the battery, it's very easy.

 

[Wirko]

What are you doing with your replaced products? Are you selling it as used products, holding on to it, discarding it, or?

Here at TPU you're among people who have an above average ability - and desire - to repurpose old parts, build new old PCs, and hand them over to less demanding users, such as their own parents or charities. They will likely complain less about P/O because they know how to run against it, at least when it comes to PCs.
Gotta go now, those pesky HP 338 ink cartridges need refilling again, it's a dirty job.

 

[bonehead123]

Don't charge your battery to 100%
Charge to 70% (the point charging becomes slower)

This will make your battery live 3 times longer. 8~9 years instead of 2~3 years.
And just replace the battery, it's very easy.

I started this from day 1 on my current phone (S21+), and it helped alot for the 1st 2 years, but not as much as it originally did... plus the battery on this phone is not that easy to replace, but there is a small shop downtown that I have used before, they will do it for $85 (parts & labor) so I will let them handle that, since my hands/eyes aren't as good as they used to be

What are you doing with your replaced products? Are you selling it as used products, holding on to it, discarding it, or?

I will try first to sell them to someone who wants a used/budget device, if this doesn't work out, I will take them to a recycling place......

 

[Lei]

... plus the battery on this phone is not that easy to replace, but there is a small shop downtown that I have used before, they will do it for $85 (parts & labor) so I will let them handle that, since my hands/eyes aren't as good as they used to be

I replaced mine for 9$
Just found a tall lady with long wavy hair, I asked her to bring me her hair dryer... I let her pull the battery out with her long fingers.

I bought some boiled eggs yesterday morning. Saw that lady again and put the warm egg on her cheeks, hahaha

What are you doing with your replaced products? Are you selling it as used products, holding on to it, discarding it, or?

I sold my monitor. My hdd.
I support return without reason.

Used parts may also end up being tossed at my sister or opened to steal the tech.
Steve Jobs said: good artist copies, great artist steals. So I think it's important to screw things open and steal the design inside.

I do buy 2nd hand stuff too. My psu, my mobo, ssd, hdd, keyboard, joystick, webcam, panoramic camera, gpu are all bought from 2nd hand market.

My brother says: the best guarantee is when something worked for 2 years and is still working. He repairs printers for a living. Including flashing their IC so they reset their counter instead of stop working.

 

[Shrek]

For most phones changing the battery is easy, but not so for an Apple iPhone.

 

[Wirko]

My phone had an IP68 rating when it was new, which was 4.5 years ago. Water resistance becomes questionable over time, and even more problematic if the phone is taken apart to have battery or other parts changed.