General Cryptocoin Discussion

[80-watt Hamster]

It's also very ironic that your blaming crypto for a failure in a FIAT bank.

How you figure? Incorrect perhaps, but I don't see the irony. Recent inflation issues aside, the USD is stable thus far. Consensus seems to be (IIRC) that crypto wasn't a driver of the troubles at Signature, but was a contributing factor at Silvergate, though not a primary factor.

 

[Bomby569]

How you figure? Incorrect perhaps, but I don't see the irony. Recent inflation issues aside, the USD is stable thus far. Consensus seems to be (IIRC) that crypto wasn't a driver of the troubles at Signature, but was a contributing factor at Silvergate, though not a primary factor.

he mentioned 2 banks and i replied "a FIAT bank", meaning the SVB. As far as i know SVB had nothing to do with crypto.

 

[dragontamer5788]

The US gov guaranteed all deposits, so it's indeed safe.

Do we know that the money is even in an FDIC deposit account?

The wording of that paragraph is tricky. It never said that it's in a savings or checking account.

For all we know, it's a crappy bond that will disappear.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

he mentioned 2 banks and i replied "a FIAT bank", meaning the SVB. As far as i know SVB had nothing to do with crypto.

It didn't, and also wasn't directly connected to Silvergate or Signature, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here.

 

[dragontamer5788]

It didn't, and also wasn't directly connected to Silvergate or Signature, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here.

SVB was holding onto some money from Circle, aka USDC.

But that has nothing to do with Binance. So I'm not seeing the connection here either.

 

[Bomby569]

sorry, nevermind, i read something wrong.

 

[lexluthermiester]

i had +/-350usd, i should have a lot more now, i say let it be

i also didn't understood the liquid part, you can sell it 24/7 and there is always buyers

As I stated above, I should have phrased it better.

 

[P4-630]

Good or perhaps bad news https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...ing-blockscale-chips-no-future-gens-announced

 

[lexluthermiester]

Good or perhaps bad news https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...ing-blockscale-chips-no-future-gens-announced

It's just news.

 

[P4-630]

The DAME Tax: Making Cryptominers Pay for Costs They Impose on Others

The DAME Tax: Making Cryptominers Pay for Costs They Impose on Others | CEA | The White House

While crypto assets are virtual, the energy costs tied to their production are substantial and very real. The DAME tax aims to address this issue...

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[dragontamer5788]

Binance gets sued yesterday.

Coinbase gets sued today.

10+ states have issued cease and desist notices to Coinbase.

 

[Bomby569]

Binance gets sued yesterday.

Coinbase gets sued today.

10+ states have issued cease and desist notices to Coinbase.

I'm not exactly inside the details, but this seems very different, it kind of looks like a witch hunt, the US is buthurt with something

 

[dragontamer5788]

I'm not exactly inside the details, but this seems very different, it kind of looks like a witch hunt, the US is buthurt with something

Butthurt about FTX, Voyager, and Celsius.

SEC.gov | SEC Charges Coinbase for Operating as an Unregistered Securities Exchange, Broker, and Clearing Agency

www.sec.gov

The SEC alleges that, since 2019, Coinbase has been engaging in an unregistered securities offering through its staking-as-a-service program, which allows customers to earn profits from the “proof of stake” mechanisms of certain blockchains and Coinbase’s efforts. Through this staking program, Coinbase allegedly pools each type of customers’ stakeable crypto assets, stakes the pool to perform blockchain transaction validation services, and provides a portion of the rewards generated from this work to its customers whose assets were part of the pool. Coinbase failed to register its offers and sales of this staking program as required by law.

“We allege that Coinbase, despite being subject to the securities laws, commingled and unlawfully offered exchange, broker-dealer, and clearinghouse functions,” said SEC Chair Gary Gensler. “In other parts of our securities markets, these functions are separate. Coinbase’s alleged failures deprive investors of critical protections, including rulebooks that prevent fraud and manipulation, proper disclosure, safeguards against conflicts of interest, and routine inspection by the SEC. Further, as we allege, Coinbase never registered its staking-as-a-service program as required by the securities laws, again depriving investors of critical disclosure and other protections.”

They're cracking down on the behavior that led up to Celsius, Voyager, and FTX, respectively. This isn't even new. Months ago, SEC sued Gemini over this.

SEC.gov | SEC Charges Genesis and Gemini for the Unregistered Offer and Sale of Crypto Asset Securities through the Gemini Earn Lending Program

www.sec.gov

According to the complaint, in December 2020, Genesis, part of a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, entered into an agreement with Gemini to offer Gemini customers, including retail investors in the United States, an opportunity to loan their crypto assets to Genesis in exchange for Genesis’ promise to pay interest. Beginning in February 2021, Genesis and Gemini began offering the Gemini Earn program to retail investors, whereby Gemini Earn investors tendered their crypto assets to Genesis, with Gemini acting as the agent to facilitate the transaction. Gemini deducted an agent fee, sometimes as high as 4.29 percent, from the returns Genesis paid to Gemini Earn investors. As alleged in the complaint, Genesis then exercised its discretion in how to use investors’ crypto assets to generate revenue and pay interest to Gemini Earn investors.

The complaint further alleges that, in November 2022, Genesis announced that it would not allow its Gemini Earn investors to withdraw their crypto assets because Genesis lacked sufficient liquid assets to meet withdrawal requests following volatility in the crypto asset market. At the time, Genesis held approximately $900 million in investor assets from 340,000 Gemini Earn investors. Gemini terminated the Gemini Earn program earlier this month. As of today, the Gemini Earn retail investors have still not been able to withdraw their crypto assets.

Its all the same bullshit. The only difference is that we're seeing Coinbase's submarine at work instead of Gemini's submarine at work.

-----------------

Look at the list of states issuing cease and desist: California, Illinois, Kentucky, Maryland, New Jersey, South Carolina, Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin along with Alabama. This is cross-party and multi-cultural. This includes elite coastal cities, rural Kentucky and Wisconsin, deep red Alabama and deep blue + techie California.

There can't be a conspiracy here. Kentucky will not work with California to create a conspiracy. They just won't. The only reason this is all happening now is because the SEC announced the Wells Notice months ago, alerting Coinbase that this issue was coming up officially. Now is the date, and now its happening.

 

[Bomby569]

as far as i understood Coinbase/Binance it's nothing like Celsius, FTX, it's about how they handled the US customers in terms of US laws.

 

[dragontamer5788]

as far as i understood Coinbase/Binance it's nothing like Celsius, FTX, it's about how they handled the US customers in terms of US laws.

Coinbase Earn: Put your crypto to work and earn rewards

With Coinbase Earn, we'll help you put your assets to work in the cryptoeconomy so you can grow your crypto holdings with little effort.

www.coinbase.com

This right here, this "Staking" bit? This is what Celsius did before its big collapse. This is what's central to the cease-and-desist, and is also brought up by the SEC as one of the things Coinbase is violating.

This is directly asking for customers money, and in exchange promising a %yield on APY / yearly terms. Like a bond (security), savings account (also a regulated security, though savings accounts are regulated by the FDIC instead). Etc. etc.

Yeah, SEC has turned a blind eye to it all of last year, but with major collapses at Celsius, Voyager, and FTX, they've begun to crack down on this "staking" business. Its the most obvious "security" that these exchanges are offering. Except without any assurances like descriptions (or assurances) in where the money is going, who they're lending it to, etc. etc. In the case of FTX, FTX lent it to Sam Bankman Fried's other company which then lent it to SBF's parents so that they can buy a house.

But the overall problem is the "lack of reporting". In USA, you have to say where the money is going under traditional securities. Hiding these facts from the public is the problem.

 

[A Computer Guy]

They're cracking down on the behavior that led up to Celsius, Voyager, and FTX, respectively. This isn't even new. Months ago, SEC sued Gemini over this.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem they are cracking down on politicians that accelerate and participate in this behavior because that might be really effective.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Unfortunately it doesn't seem they are cracking down on politicians that accelerate and participate in this behavior because that might be really effective.

Politicians are setting up staking services promising a steady yield denominated in returns APY? Where?

Celsius did this. Voyager did this. FTX did this. Gemini used to do this (maybe still are?) but that case started a few months ago. SEC now sues Binance yeterday and Coinbase today. It seems rather straightforward and purposeful to me.

 

[Bomby569]

Coinbase Earn: Put your crypto to work and earn rewards

With Coinbase Earn, we'll help you put your assets to work in the cryptoeconomy so you can grow your crypto holdings with little effort.

www.coinbase.com

This right here, this "Staking" bit? This is what Celsius did before its big collapse. This is what's central to the cease-and-desist, and is also brought up by the SEC as one of the things Coinbase is violating.

This is directly asking for customers money, and in exchange promising a %yield on APY / yearly terms. Like a bond (security), savings account (also a regulated security, though savings accounts are regulated by the FDIC instead). Etc. etc.

Yeah, SEC has turned a blind eye to it all of last year, but with major collapses at Celsius, Voyager, and FTX, they've begun to crack down on this "staking" business. Its the most obvious "security" that these exchanges are offering. Except without any assurances like descriptions (or assurances) in where the money is going, who they're lending it to, etc. etc. In the case of FTX, FTX lent it to Sam Bankman Fried's other company which then lent it to SBF's parents so that they can buy a house.

But the overall problem is the "lack of reporting". In USA, you have to say where the money is going under traditional securities. Hiding these facts from the public is the problem.

sorry, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what Celsius or FTX was doing, come on. Up to 10%, UP TO.

Stacking:

What is staking?

Staking is a way of earning rewards for holding certain cryptocurrencies.

www.coinbase.com

this (unless there is something weird hiden) is not shaddy or even remotely pyramid scheme like.

 

[dragontamer5788]

sorry, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what Celsius or FTX was doing, come on. Up to 10%, UP TO.

Stacking:

What is staking?

Staking is a way of earning rewards for holding certain cryptocurrencies.

www.coinbase.com

this (unless there is something weird hiden) is not shaddy or even remotely pyramid scheme like.

This "Coinbase Earn" product they're offering... its an unregistered, unregulated financial instrument. Is it not?

 

[trog100]

these are civil cases not criminal.. such cases are common and after dragging on for a long time usually end up with some some kind of financial settlement..

bitcoin is up 5% on the day just out of interest..

trog

 

[Bomby569]

This "Coinbase Earn" product they're offering... its an unregistered, unregulated financial instrument. Is it not?

that's the part i said above "it's about how they handled the US customers in terms of US laws.", not about how shady anything is.

 

[dragontamer5788]

that's the part i said above "it's about how they handled the US customers in terms of US laws.", not about how shady anything is.

Are they giving out the prospectus with descriptions of where the yield is coming from, and how much of a cut Coinbase gets from the fee structure?

When I look up bonds, MMFs and other US regulated securities, they come with information like this. A lot of information.

VMFXX-Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund | Vanguard

investor.vanguard.com

This VMFXX fund would be akin to the USDC staking Coinbase offers. Notice how we have the exact value of assets held, the exact makeup of the Treasuries they buy and the 0.11% cut Vanguard takes to make itself a profit.

Coinbase does not report on these details on Coinbase Earn products. This lack of reporting is what led to FTX to transfer money to Almedia Research, which transferred the money to SBFs parents house.

You have to track all the money as per US securities law. And publicly do so, and have audits proving that you've kept track of the money.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Binance gets sued yesterday.

Coinbase gets sued today.

10+ states have issued cease and desist notices to Coinbase.

Is anyone surprised? I'm a bit surprised more states didn't join in..

 

[MentalAcetylide]

Is anyone surprised? I'm a bit surprised more states didn't join in..

I'm actually surprised crypto hasn't just faded altogether into the background. A lot of people got burned by it.

 

[R-T-B]

I'm actually surprised crypto hasn't just faded altogether into the background. A lot of people got burned by it.

Sunken cost fallacy is a helluva drug.