Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

[SuperConker]

Unless I am mistaken crystaldiskinfo is showing the reallocated sectors, so why is it misinforming you.

As I said, read the raw values, if you just looking at its health status, you using it wrong, crystaldiskinfo should probably remove the health status as its confusing folks like you.

Disk sentinel is better if you need your hand holding though.

It's not the raw values that is the problem here, it's the other things that could confuse people.


It's showing an overall health status of 99% instead of 74% which is one problem.

The main Health status should be yellow/red in case of a dead drive.

It should also show yellow/red icons next to values that are actually bad.


With all of those things not being right it would be easy to overlook the individual raw values
(as there is nothing that would draw your attention to it).

 

[SPDIF]

In this screenshot you see three details in the Smart table with are important for most NVMe SSD's around, if any number changes from what you see in this pic, backup and have a new SSD ready. It also can change if your SSD is full of data, with is by the way not a good idea, always leave some free space on an SSD or install Over-provisioning.
An easy to remember, 100-10-0 three very important numbers that indicates the health.

I don't trust any program on it's beautiful eyes, i just look to the Smart Table always. Most reliable way.

In this screenshot an SSD (970 PRO) that has written a total of 25TB. Nothing changed yet of this table, so this SSD is 100 percent Healthy.
An SSD that still use real 2-bit MLC and not 3-bit MLC (TLC), that all EVO SSD uses.

 

[SPDIF]

I got an official answer from Samsung after month's waiting. SVT03B6Q is only offered to some variants of the 870 EVO SSD that use new NAND packages.
So don't wait for an update if you have SVT02B6Q, like crucial firmware it will stay with this older firmware because it uses different Nand.

Also the reason it is not available online.
So my guessing was right it uses different nand. Also completely unrelated to the 980 and 990 pro degrading issues, this was purely due to bad firmware.

 

[Jon555]

So I hate to be that guy, but given this is a 33-page thread, can someone give me a tl;dr as to:

• Which capacities of the 870 EVO are affected? OP had a 4TB model but the later pages of the thread seem to suggest only the 1TB and 2TB models are affected?
• Is there a date of manufacture after which the issue is confirmed to no longer exist?
• Is there a specific firmware update that is known to prevent the issue?

Baiscally, if I drop money on an 870 EVO today, can I expect its failure rate to be comparable to other SSDs? Or is this still a don't-buy situation?

Mine's (2TB) been fine (sample size of one obviously) including running the (very long) full test. I asked Samsung about it and they said:

"Thank you for contacting Samsung Memory Support.

This is the firmware related problem and was improved at the middle of 2021-December already.
The update of the improved firmware was released from the December of 2021 and the products with the latest firmware don't have this problem.
You can check the SSD status with Magician (SMART) Diagnostic scan to see if the SSD is showing any fail.

We hope that we have given you sufficient information.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us."

It's very hard to tell from the forum as there aren't enough links to go with suggestions of lots of failures. A full diagnostic scan took 11 hours, so not one to do if you need to use it sometime soon.

 

[SPDIF]

That long test of 11 hours also wears out your SSD! It's writing to every block and verifying it, then delete again. Your SSD feels not happy with this test, only use this if you are seeing errors in the SMART table!

 

[SomeOne99h]

That long test of 11 hours also wears out your SSD! It's writing to every block and verifying it, then delete again. Your SSD feels not happy with this test, only use this if you are seeing errors in the SMART table!

I have purchased the Samsung SSD 870 EVO
4TB
Made in Korea
Production date 2023-05-19.
Comes with SVT02B6Q firmware and it the latest according to Samsung Magician.
I decided that I do a FULL FORMAT on it so that if the SSD is bad, then it might go to that point where it produces errors so I can ask for refund from Amazon or RMA the SSD directly. But the SSD hasn't gotten any errors.

I know that will do 4TBs of writes, but the SSD has plenty TBW endurance. Worth it!
Did a whole copy of my OS and files from 1TB 860 EVO to it already!

SPDIF, what was a the Production date of those 870 EVOs you sold and are okay?

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

Stick with WD or Solidigm (formerly Intel)

Solidigm are former intel ssd team?
Didn't sk hynix bought intel ssd bussiness?

So here's a question, we know that crucial reduced Dram capacity to 512mb for all mx500 line, how much size is the data map can take on a full 4tb drive?

 

[SPDIF]

I have purchased the Samsung SSD 870 EVO
4TB
Made in Korea
Production date 2023-05-19.
Comes with SVT02B6Q firmware and it the latest according to Samsung Magician.
I decided that I do a FULL FORMAT on it so that if the SSD is bad, then it might go to that point where it produces errors so I can ask for refund from Amazon or RMA the SSD directly. But the SSD hasn't gotten any errors.

I know that will do 4TBs of writes, but the SSD has plenty TBW endurance. Worth it!
Did a whole copy of my OS and files from 1TB 860 EVO to it already!

SPDIF, what was a the Production date of those 870 EVOs you sold and are okay?

Never do full format on an SSD, just use secure erase, it will have the same effect in some minutes!! Again causes unnecessary wear on an SSD.
Secure erase let the controller on the SSD check everything and causes no wear. The controller is on the SDD for that, it's his job to take care of the Nand. No need that YOU do it in it's place.
Even when SMART errors appear, it's to late already, no payed program nor Samsung Magician can repair an SSD that use Spare blocks, at that time it's slowly dying. You just reset the table that's all, it does not repair anything. A bad block STAY'S a bad block!

Whenever an unrecoverable error appear on the SSD the controller will mark it in the smart table. There's no need to fill up an SSD to see if it has errors, we didn't do that with an HDD too? An old HDD also can die suddenly. I never heard of filling an HDD with 100GB to see if it makes fault's, so you don't do that surely with an SSD. An fridge also can die suddenly, it does not mean you have to test for an week with the doors open.

I am selling every month around hundred of SSD, i am doing this job 39 years already. So i do know what i am talking about.

ALL new SSD that comes in my shop from 1, 2 and 4TB are production date 12/2022, 02/2023, 03/2023, 05/2023 and 07/2023. Yesterday i had some 4TB from date 08/2023

Most of time firmware versions SVT02B6Q or SVT03B6Q.

But who am i to say what you should do with an SSD, just use common sense.

Solidigm are former intel ssd team?
Didn't sk hynix bought intel ssd bussiness?

So here's a question, we know that crucial reduced Dram capacity to 512mb for all mx500 line, how much size is the data map can take on a full 4tb drive?

The data map size on a full 4TB SSD drive depends on several factors, such as the partition style, the allocation unit size, and the file system of the drive.

On a full 4TB SSD drive with NTFS file system, the data map size in DRAM would be around 80 MB. This is an approximate value that may vary depending on the actual number and size of files on the drive. The Dram space left over is used to cache data to write to Nand and working space for the controller do it's job. If there's no Dram, HMB from your CPU is used.

 

[Sora]

we didn't do that with an HDD too? An old HDD also can die suddenly.

Yes we did.
Manufacturer's utility Extended test, followed by zero fill, followed by full format.

 

[SPDIF]

Yes we did.
Manufacturer's utility Extended test, followed by zero fill, followed by full format.

NO, we did not with a new drive.
We never did... Maybe you, but in the world who do that right out the box?

Yes with a used one i agree. When it show error's, put it away asap. You don't use that any more for important data. No need to repair that with programs, it dies slowly...

For the 870EVO SSD, you should keep an eye on these tables in red. If any of them changes from zero, you have a bad or degrading SSD. This also count's for SSD from other brand's.

Screenshot is from an 2TB 870EVO that has written 15TB, has SVT03B6Q firmware and production date 05/2023, made in China.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

Never do full format on an SSD, just use secure erase, it will have the same effect in some minutes!! Again causes unnecessary wear on an SSD.
Secure erase let the controller on the SSD check everything and causes no wear. The controller is on the SDD for that, it's his job to take care of the Nand. No need that YOU do it in it's place.
Even when SMART errors appear, it's to late already, no payed program nor Samsung Magician can repair an SSD that use Spare blocks, at that time it's slowly dying. You just reset the table that's all, it does not repair anything. A bad block STAY'S a bad block!

I wanted to ask since you are familiar with ssds, is a full format completely useless on ssds and should only be used on hard drives?

What makes secure erase so unique to ssd formatting and does it completely delete all data, also, could a secure erase return an ssd to factory new speeds?

 

[bluestang]

NO, we did not with a new drive.
We never did... Maybe you, but in the world who do that right out the box?

What end user with any smarts wouldn't? I tested every 16TB WD Gold I bought before I installed in my NAS. Why? Because it is the smart thing to do when you're about to move 10's of TB of Data to it. I'd rather the drive show me its's problem during the days it took to test them instead of during the first major in-use operation. lol So irresponsible.

No responsible persoon would recommend a 870 EVO anymore...supposed fix or not...as Samsung does not deserve the trust of one's data let alone business. There are other options out there that are not Samsung that are just as good if not better and more reliable at the same cost or less!

 

[P4-630]

No responsible persoon would recommend a 879 EVO anymore..

Don't know about that one though..

 

[SPDIF]

I wanted to ask since you are familiar with ssds, is a full format completely useless on ssds and should only be used on hard drives?

What makes secure erase so unique to ssd formatting and does it completely delete all data, also, could a secure erase return an ssd to factory new speeds?

A full format is not good for an SSD, as it reduce its performance and lifespan by overwriting the data multiple times.
Why secure erase is a better option? As it wipe the data fast and restore the SSD to its original state. This improves the performance of the SSD by freeing up blocks that store the data and reducing the write amplification factor.
A full format only deletes the files from the partition, but they can still be recovered with some tool.
Also secure erase reduce the write amplification by clearing the invalid data and making space available for new data.

You can use Samsung's tool or for example Parted Magic to do that.

 

[bluestang]

Don't know about that one though..

LOL typo...fixed. And I stand by it.

 

[SPDIF]

I wanted to ask since you are familiar with ssds, is a full format completely useless on ssds and should only be used on hard drives?

What makes secure erase so unique to ssd formatting and does it completely delete all data, also, could a secure erase return an ssd to factory new speeds?

On normal HDD plays no role, there you should just zero out the HDD and make a new full format to bring it back to factory.
Some new HDD also can do secure erase, but instead of some seconds for an SSD, it here can take hours for a secure erase.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

So after 36 pages of discussions, what are the conclusions to this fiasco, should i buy a Crucial MX500 insted of the 870 Evo or try the 870 Evo making sure its latest version SVT03B6Q.

I want a sata drive with dram cache and these two are the only options available, everything else is dram less or qlc

 

[SPDIF]

You said it good, 36 pages of fiasco... I would say buy whatever you want, did you also thought about the Sandisk Ultra 3D SSD, or Seagate 530 and Samsung 860 PRO? Very fast, but not so cheap.
Sammy made a big fiasco during the pandemic, that's true. But now i must be careful what i say here, or I'm a sammyfan. Yes they made a big mistake, yes many where very very bad.

But we are now almost 2024, you really think they want this fiasco to go on as worlds biggest seller before? You really think they go on selling bad SSD like this? You really think they want to continue destroy themselves? As of today, there are nowhere problems reported. Sure it's possible that you will hear later here in this thread about a bad drive again. The other brand's fail to and crucial plays a lottery with changing component's all the time, and are slower then before.

They stay the fastest SSD available, and very low power use, for a fairly low price. Then you have Sandisk, Seagate, OWC, fast but power hungry, Expensive, Crucial and WD are the slowest out there. Prices are low at moment.
I would say buy what comes in your mind, don't forget you have 5 years warranty on Sammy's and Sandisk, Crucial, WD, almost all of them. They all have they're up and downs.
Just by a known brand at not from Aliexpress. Drives with SVT02 or 03 firmware plays no role anymore at moment, it's just different NAND.

The fastest drives i sold here is; (All SATA-3, DRAM on board)

1. Seagate IronWolf 125​

2. Samsung 860 PRO ( may be difficult to get, expensive)​

3. OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G (Phison S12 Revision)​

4. Samsung 870 EVO​

5. Sandisk Ultra 3D​

6. Crucial MX500​

7. WD Blue.​

8. Kingston SSDNow KC600​

9. SK Hynix Gold S31​

10. Mushkin Source II​

11. Crucial BX500​

Hope this helpes you.

 

[SPDIF]

Two more in this list i tested;
12. Silicon Power A58
13. Adata SU760

 

[agent_x007]

What about A-Data SU800 ?

 

[Pickles Von Brine]

I don't see a lot of SSDs that come in failed but the ones that give us the biggest headaches are samsung and newer drives. We have a lab that specializes in SSD recoveries and god damn it is a pain in the ass.

 

[SPDIF]

Many suppliers still have those BAD Samsung SSD in stock, or even in computer shop's. So i don't expect your work will soon be done. If it's made in the time of the pandemic and slightly after it, you may have a bad SSD in your hands. I just did buy some NEW 980PRO drives of 2TB because of the very low price and they all are made 09/2023 with the latest firmware.
Not Made in Korea, but in China now. Almost all SSD from Samsung are now Made in China, also the new 870 EVO's. Before and the bad ones included they made, where always Made in Korea.

I see that Sata drives are beginning to fall down, i now sell more NVMe drives then Sata SSD's.

What about A-Data SU800 ?

Sadly ALL A-Data Sata SSD drives are very difficult to get, for some types there's a waiting time from month's. Specially the SU800 and only available in 1TB. And even for this one, you need some luck. Maybe it's better in the US?

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

My Crucial MX500 ssd 500 gb version is 98% health after 4.7 TBW, is that good or bad?

 

[bluestang]

My Crucial MX500 ssd 500 gb version is 98% health after 4.7 TBW, is that good or bad?

180 TBW rating so its right on par with health status.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

180 TBW rating so its right on par with health status.

Hmm according to calculations, a 2% out of 180 is 1.11, so technically i have written more than 4 times the size, yet the ssd only degraded by 2%....

Does that mean it has been upgraded?