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Are game requirements and VRAM usage a joke today?

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In some titles, DLSS has been a "must have" since its launch. Even in 1080p. As a reserve, it proves extremely useful for RTX 2000 owners or those using weaker video cards.
The Last is a shooter. A high framerate helps enormously.

In the two captures there are only two big differences:
DLSS on (included in the preset) and DLSS off
FPS: min, max, average

View attachment 321362
View attachment 321363
I use dlss pretty much for the added quality and when possibly I swap the dlss dll to avoid ghosting or any artifact as long as it's not an online game, simply because dlss offloads some load from the gpu plus it helps with the awful TAA that a lot of games have forced... but that's just me. I'm gonna cap the fps at 120 for streaming anyway. A lot of people can banefit from it for higher framerates as long as the cpu can keep up
 
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Are you sure you didn't "buy" it from torrents?
They worked a lot on optimization, especially on vRAM memory requirements. It seems a bit doubtful that you played it well when the game required 13GB for 1080p and you can't play it now when it requires less than 10GB.


In future games, as history shows, the GPU limitation appears before the vRAM limitation. In other words, you will use more than 8GB for nothing if the GPU cannot render a decent framerate. Whether you like it or not, you are forced to reduce details, except for the cases where various "influencers" try to convince us how cool the memory is when you play at 25 fps.

Probably the TPU reviews (and not only) are wrong if they show us that the 6700XT was not helped by the 12GB of vRAM in the games tested in 2023. The distance to the 3070 is the same, with one exception, brought (coincidentally or not) and this topic. More than two years have passed since their launch, how long can we wait?
Depends on the game.

I think Nvidia have quite simply got it wrong, what I mean by that is the tflops vs VRAM ratio.

In my case, the games I play VRAM has hit me first, once I was on 1080ti, I was almost completely free of GPU bottlenecking, I didnt need the 3080 for performance, I got it due to the state of the market and £650 wouldnt be around again for xx80 class for a while (so far proven right). On my 3080, I have yet to see utilisation get above around 70% in any sustained way, however I have had multiple instances of VRAM capacity issues.

But I dont play with uncapped FPS (60 is as high as I go), I dont play shooters. I have also yet to play any RT or DLSS game, simply because games I want to play dont implement those technologies.

Two crowds here, one crowd who just wants extreme frame rates, gimmie more frames!!!, they dont care much on visual fidelity but want that 500fps, Nvidia has catered for them nicely. Then the crowd who likes great textures, happy to play at 60fps or less, things like pop in textures ignore this crowd a lot, dynamic LOD stuck at low LOD annoys this crowd a lot, missing textures ignores this crowd a lot, and of course stutters caused by excessive asset swapping.

If you think about what Nvidia is doing with DLSS, and the lopsided blance of tflops vs VRAM, they catering to high frame rate gamers, RT is the exception as thats a visual thing, but ironically Nvidia own RT feature is showing up their own cards because as it turns out according to TPU testing RT loads up the VRAM lol.

In 2023, 8 gig should be on the bottom end cards, the bare minimum, 16 gig mid range, and 24/32 enthusiast. Nvidia have got it wrong very badly. 16 gig is to be considered the natural baseline now because that is what consoles have. Now Nvidia appear to have scrapped anything below xx60 now, looks like they lost interest there, so 4060 is their new bottom end card. But there is a new issue, pricing.

If these cards were cheap relative to previous generations, they could maybe, possibly be excused for VRAM skimping, but they not, they are the opposite. A RTX 4060 can be had for maybe £300 so 8 gig on that, but a 4070ti is at high end pricing that card should absolutely 100% have 16 gigs of VRAM, no ifs, no buts, no excuses, 16 gigs. The 4080 is now at enthusiast pricing level and I think should be at least 24 gigs on that thing. If Nvidia want to shuffle their product stacks upwards on pricing, then the spec needs to shuffle with it.

I am not paying £800 for a 12 gig card in 2023, even if it was a 4090 with 12 gigs. Right now for me VRAM means more than the compute power.

Nvidia know what they doing, those buying their 12 gig cards today will be needing an upgrade within 2 years. I still remember their interview on pcper during maxwell era. "Our biggest competitor is ourselves previous gen, we need to find a way to sell new products to existing customers".
 
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I got a 4GB RTX 3050 mobile which I safe to say the lowest form of RTX cards available today, and I been tested the card with Cyberpunk2077 2.0 which upped the VRAM requirement to 6GB VRAM, with texture set to high the game will crash within few seconds when playing (granted I only have 16GB of RAM and disable paging file) but playing with settings to low or medium didn't exhibit similar problems. Though there frametime graph is more janky on medium than low, and at low some of textures doesn't display properly (sometime partially low res even up close, not to mention distance object).

But one thing I noticed, newer games really need DirectX 12 Ultimate cards, on CP2077 it doesn't look as good as on GTX 1070 compared to my RTX 3050 even everything being equal I don't know if its just me or what. Feels like Pascal cards missing something.
 
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In some titles, DLSS has been a "must have" since its launch. Even in 1080p. As a reserve, it proves extremely useful for RTX 2000 owners or those using weaker video cards.
The Last is a shooter. A high framerate helps enormously.

In the two captures there are only two big differences:
DLSS on (included in the preset) and DLSS off
FPS: min, max, average

View attachment 321362
View attachment 321363
I played CP2077 with a 2070 at 1080p with DLSS Quality - not because it's a must-have feature, but because I wanted to play with RT on. I could have just turned both RT and DLSS off and called it a day.

Like I said, DLSS is not a must-have, not even a QoL feature like some people say, but a helping hand to get the performance you want at a slight cost of image quality. The extra performance is not "free".

There's a poll on the front page. I explained my opinion in the discussion there. There's no need to do more here.
 
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If you don't have it, it's not necessary. It's only good if you load the details to the maximum for a superb 30 fps average.
Why should I believe you? You are the same one who said that the FSR is not overrun by the DLSS. Deny the claims of the reviewers just as you deny the reviews of the new games.

Looked carefully at the 1060 and 2060. They have the same amount of vRAM, the difference being big in the GPU architecture. Add DLSS and the RTX 2060 can still be used decently in modern games. We are talking about video cards released many years ago and I am sure that more vRAM does not help the 1060. It's the perfect example of everything I'm trying to say, which is that the GPU limitation appears long before the vRAM limitation.


All the best!

 
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If you don't have it, it's not necessary. It's only good if you load the details to the maximum for a superb 30 fps average.
Why should I believe you? You are the same one who said that the FSR is not overrun by the DLSS. Deny the claims of the reviewers just as you deny the reviews of the new games.

All the best!
Why should I believe reviewers more than my own eyes? What is this, some kind of religious sect? :wtf:

I never said you should believe me. All I said is that I disagree with DLSS or FSR or any other upscaling method as a matter of fact, being necessary must-haves or QoL features. I'd much rather play at slightly lower FPS, or lower some other graphics settings than make the picture a blurry mess. If I'm on native + low and the game still runs like crap, then I'll think about upscaling. You're free to have any other opinion you want.

Looked carefully at the 1060 and 2060. They have the same amount of vRAM, the difference being big in the GPU architecture. Add DLSS and the RTX 2060 can still be used decently in modern games. We are talking about video cards released many years ago and I am sure that more vRAM does not help the 1060. It's the perfect example of everything I'm trying to say, which is that the GPU limitation appears long before the vRAM limitation.
Sure, if you're using an old, or low-end GPU, and you want to play the latest games, upscaling is a good helping hand. But that's it. It's not a quality improvement, it's not a must-have... it's an aid.
 
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Why should I believe reviewers more than my own eyes? What is this, some kind of religious sect? :wtf:

I never said you should believe me. All I said is that I disagree with DLSS or FSR or any other upscaling method as a matter of fact, being necessary must-haves or QoL features. I'd much rather play at slightly lower FPS, or lower some other graphics settings than make the picture a blurry mess. If I'm on native + low and the game still runs like crap, then I'll think about upscaling. You're free to have any other opinion you want.


That is 100% the truth everyone has to use it with their own eyes and decide although I think DLSS is a must have at this point I have 0 issues with others saying it is not everyone's needs are different. I've said this countless times but I cannot stand how TAA looks in most games just like some can't stand DLSS I would say the big difference is at least DLSS give a massive performance improvement with it vs TAA all you get is the Vaseline.

I can say now that I am back at 1440p although now Ultrawide that anything below DLSS quality looks like shite and even quality is not nearly as good as it is at 4k so I think people can go either way.... I don't really care what anyone says it still sucks at 1080p.

And oh boy does FSR really suck at 1440p basically unusable in it's current state wow.
 
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That is 100% the truth everyone has to use it with their own eyes and decide although I think DLSS is a must have at this point I have 0 issues with others saying it is not everyone's needs are different. I've said this countless times but I cannot stand how TAA looks in most games just like some can't stand DLSS I would say the big difference is at least DLSS give a massive performance improvement with it vs TAA all you get is the Vaseline.

I can say now that I am back at 1440p although now Ultrawide that anything below DLSS quality looks like shite and even quality is not nearly as good as it is at 4k so I think people can go either way.... I don't really care what anyone says it still sucks at 1080p.

And oh boy does FSR really suck at 1440p basically unusable in it's current state wow.
My problem with calling DLSS (or upscaling in general) a must have, is that game devs will use this to force it down our throats regardless of what GPUs we own. I don't want it to be a must-use even with a 4090. I'd much rather play at native as much as possible.
 
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I've been going back and playing older games recently and the suggested VRAM for them is crazy low compared to games that even came out 5 years ago.

I just finished play Advent Rising (again, for like the 7th time). The game came out in 2005, but only has VRAM requirement of 128MB.

I'm now playing through The Saboteur that released in 2009 and it has 256MB VRAM requirement for an open-world game. I think even to this day that the game looks pretty good for it's age. The character models are a little boxy and the facial animations are stiff, but overall the game looks great. I forget how fun it is to just run around and blow crap up and then try to escape the Nazis as they start to get to be too much.

A couple other games on my soon to be playing list are Boiling Point (128MB VRAM requirement, released in 2005) and I've been slowly playing through Dungeon Siege (8MB VRAM, released in 2002) and also Riddick: Escape from Butcher's Bay (64MB VRAM, released in 2004).

Yeah, these games are old and hardware back then you had GPUs with low amounts of VRAM, but even disregarding that fact, these games looked great, ran great, played great and even by today's standards some of them still look pretty damn good.

I think the amount of VRAM needed to run today's games are getting crazy out of hand for the kind of performance we're starting to see. At least that's my opinion.
 
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That is 100% the truth everyone has to use it with their own eyes and decide although I think DLSS is a must have at this point I have 0 issues with others saying it is not everyone's needs are different. I've said this countless times but I cannot stand how TAA looks in most games just like some can't stand DLSS I would say the big difference is at least DLSS give a massive performance improvement with it vs TAA all you get is the Vaseline.

I can say now that I am back at 1440p although now Ultrawide that anything below DLSS quality looks like shite and even quality is not nearly as good as it is at 4k so I think people can go either way.... I don't really care what anyone says it still sucks at 1080p.

And oh boy does FSR really suck at 1440p basically unusable in it's current state wow.

Same here, ppl can tell me whatever they want but I do like DLSS on Quality and often actually prefer it vs the native TAA image.
Some if not most recent-ish games have a very unstable TAA image like flickering and all that crap but not with DLSS and once I see those flickers/image instability I can't unsee it meanwhile I have a hard time noticing any worse image quality with DLSS on Quality so I just do that.

At this point it is something I would rather not ditch if I had to switch back to an AMD GPU cause yea FSR is still not there yet. 'I do try out all of the upscaling options in the games I play if they are supported'
 
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Same here, ppl can tell me whatever they want but I do like DLSS on Quality and often actually prefer it vs the native TAA image.
Some if not most recent-ish games have a very unstable TAA image like flickering and all that crap but not with DLSS and once I see those flickers/image instability I can't unsee it meanwhile I have a hard time noticing any worse image quality with DLSS on Quality so I just do that.

At this point it is something I would rather not ditch if I had to switch back to an AMD GPU cause yea FSR is still not there yet. 'I do try out all of the upscaling options in the games I play if they are supported'
Exactly this, Dlss fixes pretty much all the garbage TAA issues...
 
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My problem with calling DLSS (or upscaling in general) a must have, is that game devs will use this to force it down our throats regardless of what GPUs we own. I don't want it to be a must-use even with a 4090. I'd much rather play at native as much as possible.

Developers are going to do whatever either fits the scope of their project and a lot of that comes down to budget or time. I think people foget that pre 2018 and maybe slightly before that on console when upscaling didn't exist games still ran like crap on the best hardware the only difference with a decade ago gpus struggled in some games even at 1080p now you can buy the lowest tier current gen cards 4060/7600 and get over 100fps without upscaling with some light tweaking at 1080p.
 
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Same here, ppl can tell me whatever they want but I do like DLSS on Quality and often actually prefer it vs the native TAA image.
Same, and while I can respect people opinions and personal preferences, it's one of my favourite features right now and as it's underpinned by what I'd call is the undisputed best Temporal AA solution today (ala DLAA), it fares disproportionately well when up-sampling vs competing solutions and TAAU. I won't go as far as to call it must have, but a video card purchase would need to massively exceed my need for Rast+RT grunt to leave DLSS out. I suppose I don't see what others see (or claim to see), but I don't see it as necessarily a compromise on visual quality because the AA is just that good (and stable), so when I hear things like "I'd rather lower settings and play native" - those two things aren't mutually exclusive, they're all tools at my disposal to tweak the visual experience to my liking, using one doesn't necessitate not using the other and vice versa, and consequently the majority of games I've played over the last ~3 years have been set up with a combination of optimised settings and DLSS. Especially when the standard TAA solution is lacking in image stability and detail, and the other option is FSR.
 
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1. Why should I believe reviewers more than my own eyes? What is this, some kind of religious sect? :wtf:


2. Sure, if you're using an old, or low-end GPU, and you want to play the latest games, upscaling is a good helping hand. But that's it. It's not a quality improvement, it's not a must-have... it's an aid.
1.
Because the eyes see, but the brain draws the conclusion. If you opted for AMD, his decision is clear.
The reviewers analyze in detail, providing details that escape you when you play. DLSS can be a fad for those who upgrade every 1-2 years, but for others it is a very useful tool. They can extend the life of a video card and the 2000 series is the perfect example.

2.
If I remember correctly, and I do, you yourself launched the term "must have". It can be or not, it depends on what you want to give up. It seems logical to me that an AMD owner would deny the impact of DLSS and RT because they lack one and the other is really a fad for a budget AMD video card. Even the 7900 XTX suffers in some titles with RT on.

Returning to vRAM usage (video), the impact of GPU between 1060 6GB and 2060 6GB is clearly visible, but the impact of vRAM is very vague when you compare 2060 6GB and 3060 12GB. There is, I don't deny it, but the GPU still makes a difference.

GTX 1060 vs RTX 2060 vs RTX 3060 vs RTX 4060 - Test in 8 Games.jpg
 
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1.
Because the eyes see, but the brain draws the conclusion. If you opted for AMD, his decision is clear.
The reviewers analyze in detail, providing details that escape you when you play. DLSS can be a fad for those who upgrade every 1-2 years, but for others it is a very useful tool. They can extend the life of a video card and the 2000 series is the perfect example.
The question still stands: why is a detailed analysis more important than what I see with my own eyes?

Yes, DLSS (or FSR) can extend the life of your GPU, but it's not making your gaming quality better, just like turning down image quality options is not making it better, either. If you need to, and have the means to upgrade to a more powerful GPU, do it. Upscaling is a good second option otherwise.

2.
If I remember correctly, and I do, you yourself launched the term "must have". It can be or not, it depends on what you want to give up. It seems logical to me that an AMD owner would deny the impact of DLSS and RT because they lack one and the other is really a fad for a budget AMD video card. Even the 7900 XTX suffers in some titles with RT on.

Returning to vRAM usage (video), the impact of GPU between 1060 6GB and 2060 6GB is clearly visible, but the impact of vRAM is very vague when you compare 2060 6GB and 3060 12GB. There is, I don't deny it, but the GPU still makes a difference.
I'm sick and tired of the "AMD users can't have an opinion" bullshit. I used to have a 2070 (I still do on top of a shelf), and played Cyberpunk 2077 with DLSS Quality at 1080p. I'm saying based on my own experience that DLSS did not make my gaming experience better. It only made me able to turn on RT at some loss of sharpness. It's a trade-off, people opting for the technology instead of saving up for more raw performance should keep that in mind.
 
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If you have too little VRAM, your GPU must obtain it's texture data for example from main system ram. It's slow. And it will cause huge stutters if that was the case. If you have a video card with good enough or even more, you don't have that problem anymore.

The amount of VRAM sold today on cards is most likely because of the memory packages being sold. It's no longer a half gigabit but the full 2gb per chip. If you have a card with 8 chips that would mean 8x 2 gbit or simply put 8 to 16GB.

You use vram for primarily caching.
 
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The question still stands: why is a detailed analysis more important than what I see with my own eyes?

Yes, DLSS (or FSR) can extend the life of your GPU, but it's not making your gaming quality better, just like turning down image quality options is not making it better, either. If you need to, and have the means to upgrade to a more powerful GPU, do it. Upscaling is a good second option otherwise.


I'm sick and tired of the "AMD users can't have an opinion" bullshit. I used to have a 2070 (I still do on top of a shelf), and played Cyberpunk 2077 with DLSS Quality at 1080p. I'm saying based on my own experience that DLSS did not make my gaming experience better. It only made me able to turn on RT at some loss of sharpness. It's a trade-off, people opting for the technology instead of saving up for more raw performance should keep that in mind.
And I'm fed up with "more vRAM" at... 40 fps. The graphics processor cannot cope with new games at maximum detail, the reviews confirm it. So, what is the use of more memory if, as the reviews say, the gpu cannot render more than 50 fps, on average, resulting in a terrible gaming experience. Of course, you can reduce the details, the fps increases and the surplus vRAM remains at the stage of ... surplus. Even if there are some who try to prove the opposite, they are ridiculous. Don't spend $300 or more on a video card for the igpu experience.
The 6700XT has not surpassed, is not surpassing and will never surpass the 3070. At least not in this decade. Maybe only in "photoshop mode".

And to end the dramas, the new 8 GB video cards aim for 1080p resolution. You don't buy the 4090 for 1080p, nor the 4060 for 4K. Each has its place.
 
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And I'm fed up with "more vRAM" at... 40 fps. The graphics processor cannot cope with new games at maximum detail, the reviews confirm it. So, what is the use of more memory if, as the reviews say, the gpu cannot render more than 50 fps, on average, resulting in a terrible gaming experience. Of course, you can reduce the details, the fps increases and the surplus vRAM remains at the stage of ... surplus. Even if there are some who try to prove the opposite, they are ridiculous. Don't spend $300 or more on a video card for the igpu experience.
The 6700XT has not surpassed, is not surpassing and will never surpass the 3070. At least not in this decade. Maybe only in "photoshop mode".

And to end the dramas, the new 8 GB video cards aim for 1080p resolution. You don't buy the 4090 for 1080p, nor the 4060 for 4K. Each has its place.
RTX 3060 vs RTX 4060 - 12GB vs 8GB VRAM Usage Comparison at 1080p in Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart PC - YouTube

It's been almost a decade since 8GB has been the standard for entry-level GPUs under $300, it's normal to not be happy with that, the most popular GPUs influence the entire gaming industry.
 

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I'm sick and tired of the "AMD users can't have an opinion" bullshit.
We get it bro, you like your card. But you don't have to cram your opinion down everyone's throats every chance that you get.

You know why people choose Nvidia over AMD. Old habits are tough to break.

I used to have a 2070 (I still do on top of a shelf), and played Cyberpunk 2077 with DLSS Quality at 1080p. I'm saying based on my own experience that DLSS did not make my gaming experience better.
C'mon now.. how old is that card? And you are playing one of the heaviest games out there on it. Of course it will be less than optimal. It doesn't run good on my 980 either. Why.
 
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We get it bro, you like your card. But you don't have to cram your opinion down everyone's throats every chance that you get.

You know why people choose Nvidia over AMD. Old habits are tough to break.
It's not about my card, or how much I like it. I liked my 2070 as well, but I never called DLSS a "must-have".

I'm not cramming my opinion down on other's throats, but I expect the same in return. Being told how glorious and beautiful DLSS is every corner of every forum is sickening. I don't like it (and I don't like FSR, either, or any other upscaling technology, in fact). This is my personal opinion. You don't have to agree, and I'm not gonna apologise.

If you like DLSS, then disregard my post and enjoy. ;)

C'mon now.. how old is that card? And you are playing one of the heaviest games out there on it. Of course it will be less than optimal. It doesn't run good on my 980 either. Why.
It's two generations old. How is that in relation to the topic at hand? It runs DLSS just like a 4080 does.
 

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It's not about my card, or how much I like it. I liked my 2070 as well, but I never called DLSS a "must-have".
I get it.

'm not cramming my opinion down on other's throats, but I expect the same in return. Being told how glorious and beautiful DLSS is every corner of every forum is sickening. I don't like it (and I don't like FSR, either, or any other upscaling technology, in fact). This is my personal opinion. You don't have to agree, and I'm not gonna apologise.
I have seen you get pretty defensive, and I understand. You just trying to tell the world that as an Nvidia user, AMD makes a good card. Myself I don't go on about DLSS and all that, I just turn everything to max and hope it works at 4K/60 lol.

It's two generations old. How is that in relation to the topic at hand? It runs DLSS just like a 4080 does.
Its still an old card though.. remember how long it took to dominate Crysis :D

My card is not as strong as a 4080, so I would not know :D
 
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RTX 3060 vs RTX 4060 - 12GB vs 8GB VRAM Usage Comparison at 1080p in Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart PC - YouTube

It's been almost a decade since 8GB has been the standard for entry-level GPUs under $300, it's normal to not be happy with that, the most popular GPUs influence the entire gaming industry.
At the end, there is a link for a comparison of 10 other games between the 3060 and 4060. The 4060 wins 10 out of 10. I put it here, maybe we don't notice the forest because of the straw in our eyes.

P.S. Exactly 4 years have passed since the 8GB standard for x060. The RTX 2060 Super was the first to be released. If 8GB is not enough for 1080p, I think you have a big problem.


P.S. The 10 games are selling very well. This aspect is also important. Today I played an online game with 2.2GB of vRAM load. The paradox makes these interactive games create an advantage for you using low-medium details and at least 100 fps, as a minimum.
The planet doesn't collapse when you discover a poorly optimized title to demonstrate the ridiculousness. For each such title, hundreds of titles that have no problems can be opposed.
By the way, did you know that games released 10 years ago still have active players on the servers? You can play them with igp.
 
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I get it.


I have seen you get pretty defensive, and I understand. You just trying to tell the world that as an Nvidia user, AMD makes a good card. Myself I don't go on about DLSS and all that, I just turn everything to max and hope it works at 4K/60 lol.


Its still an old card though.. remember how long it took to dominate Crysis :D

My card is not as strong as a 4080, so I would not know :D
I only get defensive when someone tells me that my opinion doesn't matter because
1. I currently game on an AMD card (like I've never owned a DLSS-capable card in my life), and
2. Reviewer X said something else. Even if a million highly qualified people agree that the sky is red and grass is purple, why should I trust them instead of my own eyes?

There is some baffling levels of herd mentality in both of the above points.
 
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We get it bro, you like your card. But you don't have to cram your opinion down everyone's throats every chance that you get.

You know why people choose Nvidia over AMD. Old habits are tough to break.


C'mon now.. how old is that card? And you are playing one of the heaviest games out there on it. Of course it will be less than optimal. It doesn't run good on my 980 either. Why.

Intel is growing, nVidia is growing... the statistics show 90% "idiots" who do NOT buy AMD. AMD also has problems in the desktop processor market. Coming back to video cards, I don't think "old habits" are the cause. Actually, I'm sure she isn't. AMD fights with low prices and some extra memory because in other chapters it is far from nVidia. Anyway, it's funny to watch some AMD owners try to give as an example a very poorly optimized title to deny the reality of the other 99.99% titles.

Q3-2022-Intel-NVIDIA-AMD-GPU-Market-Share-Report-JPR-_-Desktop-Market-Share-1456x649.jpg
 
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Intel is growing, nVidia is growing... the statistics show 90% "idiots" who do NOT buy AMD. AMD also has problems in the desktop processor market. Coming back to video cards, I don't think "old habits" are the cause. Actually, I'm sure she isn't. AMD fights with low prices and some extra memory because in other chapters it is far from nVidia. Anyway, it's funny to watch some AMD owners try to give as an example a very poorly optimized title to deny the reality of the other 99.99% titles.

View attachment 322523

Your hate-on for AMD is getting tiresome.
 
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