Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[Zach_01]

What that even does? I've kept it at auto on my both systems.

By default (auto) it’s on X1
When you set it anything else (X2~X10) you are bypassing CPU’s internal silicon management and it’s a kind of over voltage by very small steps. I’ve test it on my previous R5 3600 as far as X5. It was clocking higher than default boost but that comes with a cost. Higher voltage and current (A) through cores is increasing.
Done it only for testing a few times and I wouldn’t suggest anyone to use it.
How much difference can it make depends on type of CPU, silicon quality, thermals and PBO limits (PPT, TDC, EDC)
For example on my 3600 it didn’t make any difference after X3 and that CPU was one of the worst Zen2 ever made (low silicon quality)

It’s literally a safety bypass

 

[Ruru]

By default (auto) it’s on X1
When you set it anything else (X2~X10) you are bypassing CPU’s internal silicon management and it’s a kind of over voltage by very small steps. I’ve test it on my previous R5 3600 as far as X5. It was clocking higher than default boost but that comes with a cost. Higher voltage and current (A) through cores is increasing.
Done it only for testing a few times and I wouldn’t suggest anyone to use it.
How much difference can it make depends on type of CPU, silicon quality, thermals and PBO limits (PPT, TDC, EDC)
For example on my 3600 it didn’t make any difference after X3 and that CPU was one of the worst Zen2 ever made (low silicon quality)

It’s literally a safety bypass

Thanks for a simple answer so I'll leave it to 1X just to minimize the risks of CPU degrading etc.

 

[AusWolf]

Might have something to do with PBO Scalar X1-X10 setting.

I have PBO on Auto.

 

[Ruru]

I have PBO on Auto.

Same, and +200 on both machines to max turbo.

 

[freeagent]

PBO on auto is off.. no?

It is on Asus..

 

[Zach_01]

I think PBO on auto is by default disabled (at least was on most boards) And what PBO does is altering PPT/TDC/EDC limits mostly, I have to check my BIOS settings.
There is the “enabled” and “manual” settings also.

I can’t confirm anything but just a thought I had at some point at Zen2 era.
I preferably use manual (advanced) PBO settings.
The reason is that I’ve seen online some boards set PBO(enabled) limits to stupid high figures, and you don’t really know what does to Scalar. Most likely it will leave it to X1 but I’m not entirely sure.
So it’s just boards (vendors) deciding what PBO limits will be.
Of course the internal silicon manager is in control on silicon stress but having PPT at 900W is no wise unless you want to take every last drop of performance from the CPU according to cooling capacity installed.

I like to have control on the matter. Set my limits, scalar X1, set max CPU temp, frequency overdrive (if any) and Curve optimizer on some negative steps.

 

[AusWolf]

PBO on auto is off.. no?

It is on Asus..

To be honest, I have no idea.

I think PBO on auto is by default disabled (at least was on most boards) And what PBO does is altering PPT/TDC/EDC limits mostly, I have to check my BIOS settings.
There is the “enabled” and “manual” settings also.

My CPU is nowhere near its PPT/TDC/EDC limits by default (X3D is really economical), so I'm not sure if I'd notice anything by playing with PBO.

 

[Zach_01]

To be honest, I have no idea.


My CPU is nowhere near its PPT/TDC/EDC limits by default (X3D is really economical), so I'm not sure if I'd notice anything by playing with PBO.

Not sure I understood that.
But X3D is a very different kind of animal.
First of all they have different (lower) thermal limits.

 

[kapone32]

Not sure I understood that.
But X3D is a very different kind of animal.
First of all they have different (lower) thermal limits.

I have never seen my 7900X3D pull more than 100 watts. The temps are also nice and cool for AM5 which means the CPU boosts like crazy when necessary.

 

[AusWolf]

Not sure I understood that.
But X3D is a very different kind of animal.
First of all they have different (lower) thermal limits.

Here's my CPU in Cinebench MT:

I am literally limited by the voltage-frequency curve alone.

 

[freeagent]

I can easily get the socket limit from my 58X3D, over 140w, you guys should be able to. I have PBO enabled though to use the curve.

 

[AusWolf]

I can easily get the socket limit from my 58X3D, over 140w, you guys should be able to. I have PBO enabled though to use the curve.

My 78X3D eats roughly 80-90 W at 4.8 GHz in an all-core load (socket limit is 162 W). In single-core, it boosts up to 5.05 GHz, but then, it eats peanuts. The only way to make it eat more is with a manual OC, imo.

Edit: At about 79-81 °C, a thermal wall is out of the picture as well.

 

[Veseleil]

PPT, EDC, TDC limits do little to nothing in my case. But I did limit something, can't remember, to shave off a couple °C with a negligible performance drop.
From 72-73 to 70 in CB23 probably. Weird, ikr.

 

[HD64G]

My 78X3D eats roughly 80-90 W at 4.8 GHz in an all-core load (socket limit is 162 W). In single-core, it boosts up to 5.05 GHz, but then, it eats peanuts. The only way to make it eat more is with a manual OC, imo.

Edit: At about 79-81 °C, a thermal wall is out of the picture as well.

If so, PBO is off. You should set it in advanced and set a power limit above 95W that seems to have now. But to control temps better you can leave that as it is now and be happy with its already great performance.

 

[Nordic]

How much difference can it make depends on type of CPU, silicon quality, thermals and PBO limits (PPT, TDC, EDC)
For example on my 3600 it didn’t make any difference after X3 and that CPU was one of the worst Zen2 ever made (low silicon quality)

Overclocking my 3900x, 5950x, 5800x3d, and 7800x3d and only the 5950x saw an improvement at x2.

My CPU is nowhere near its PPT/TDC/EDC limits by default (X3D is really economical), so I'm not sure if I'd notice anything by playing with PBO.

My 7800x3d never even gets near stock PPT/TDC/EDC limits no matter how much I try. All anyone needs is to decrease CO settings to enhance performance.

 

[Zach_01]

Any Ryzen X3D is more likely to hit its respected frequency limit first before anything else.
Especially (and definately) when cooling is more than enough and CO negative is used.
Like I said... different kind of animal. Comparing them to rest of Ryzens its more or less apples to oranges.

If I keep cooling and cooling the 5900X it will eventually hit the max boost (4.8~5.0GHz) while PPT can esily go deep into 200+W as long as PPT/TDC/EDC are set high.
I have done a few tests on 220+W. Maybe I will again just for the sake of conversation.

 

[freeagent]

With my 5900X I can nail ~5150-5GHz on 6-8 cores, the rest cap at ~4850-4950. With PPT/TDC/EDC set to 260/170/190 I will hit those limits.

I don't touch the power limits at all on my 58X3D, just set an all core negative curve of -28 and can top everything out except EDC.. the always elusive EDC

 

[Deleted member 237813]

I hate how amd locked down the 3D chips. in cyberpunk my 5800x3d is like 70-90 watts yet when i take away its boost its 3.4Ghz and only 30-40 watts and still enough fps to be gpu limited before cpu.

 

[Zach_01]

With my 5900X I can nail ~5150-5GHz on 6-8 cores, the rest cap at ~4850-4950. With PPT/TDC/EDC set to 260/170/190 I will hit those limits.

Yeah, that is the way of nonX3Ds

I don't touch the power limits at all on my 58X3D, just set an all core negative curve of -28 and can top everything out except EDC.. the always elusive EDC

View attachment 331910

You would probably if you could shave some temperature, but I cant tell for sure.
I cant see the average clock speeds, avg effective speeds... and clearly you dont have enabled the "CPU Snapshot Polling" on HWiNFO which is vital for more accurate speed readings.

 

[freeagent]

but I cant tell for sure.

Nope, wont letcha.. unless you run it at 1.4v, but I got scared and backed away so I don't know for sure

Not exactly sure how I got 1.4v, but was trying some stuff

 

[AusWolf]

I hate how amd locked down the 3D chips. in cyberpunk my 5800x3d is like 70-90 watts yet when i take away its boost its 3.4Ghz and only 30-40 watts and still enough fps to be gpu limited before cpu.

I guess that's why they're locked... even at low clock speeds, you're far more likely to be GPU-limited than anything.
Thermals are more important than a couple more MHz when you have a cache die sitting on top of your CPU.

 

[Deleted member 237813]

I know but i would have loved the option to set the cpu to lets say 4ghz. You only have the option for full blown or without boost.

Or even better let it set me it on a game per game basis.

I have a good cooler but the 3d chip is a heaty boy especially the first one.

 

[Zach_01]

I know but i would have loved the option to set the cpu to lets say 4ghz. You only have the option for full blown or without boost.

Or even better let it set me it on a game per game basis.

I have a good cooler but the 3d chip is a heaty boy especially the first one.

You can cap PPT further down to lower frequency, below the default ~4.5GHz.
Just needs some testing as by how much until you hit the desired speed
Observe PPT value now at default and start cutting from there down.

 

[Nordic]

I know but i would have loved the option to set the cpu to lets say 4ghz. You only have the option for full blown or without boost.

Or even better let it set me it on a game per game basis.

I have a good cooler but the 3d chip is a heaty boy especially the first one.

What Zach_01 says is a good way to get the CPU to only go upto 4ghz and have less power used.
I have an AMD cpu and gpu. AMD gpu drivers have cpu and gpu overclocking in the AMD adrenaline interface. I can set a per game gpu overclock. I have not tried it but if they let you have a per game gpu overclock they would likely let you have a per game cpu overclock.

 

[Mussels]

Yes, I don't use PBO on nonX3D. It's useless to me in a scenario without this 110W limit. It's only enabled on mine for CO, since I need to shave power down to prevent down clocking.
If x3D was actually unlocked, then there's no need to rely on software baloney.

110W?
5800x3D has a 142W limit

If you tune PBO properly, you can get it to do 4500MHz on the heaviest loads, like Linpack. For light stuff I would see ~4600MHz with F@H/WCG and multicore boosts to 5150 for games and stuff like Pi32M.

You don't really get far with static clocks on AM4..

That's how mine behaves, i'm confused by GuruStuds claims as its not matching how I know the 5800x3D to behave

It isn't because Cinibench is heavier, that's for sure. Something else is going on. If I had your system I would find out for you

Cinebench uses AVX, often the higher wattage of AVX workloads hits the PPT limits faster, resulting in lower clocks (and lower per-core temperatures)

PBO on auto is off.. no?

It is on Asus..

PBO on auto is a MESS between brands

PBO on auto with asus means 'asus chosen settings' that are different if XMP is on or off

On Gigabyte PBO off means all limits disabled, enjoy your toast (My 5800x ran at 99C on a 240mm AIO, yet PBO auto and enabled was <80c)

I hate how amd locked down the 3D chips. in cyberpunk my 5800x3d is like 70-90 watts yet when i take away its boost its 3.4Ghz and only 30-40 watts and still enough fps to be gpu limited before cpu.

Because games are using the cached content - it's being asked to math the same things over and over, so the cache is used and the work doesnt need to be done again.

Always check reviews like this, you'll notice *ANY* CPU is fine - it's only when you go into extremely high frame rates (low res gaming, basically) that anything changes.
Intel Core i9-14900K Review - Reaching for the Performance Crown - Minimum FPS / RTX 4090 | TechPowerUp

It's hard to know when to cut the graph off, so i chose the 5600 as the 'baby' AM4 gaming chip

Unless you have a 240Hz display at 1080p (or use DLSS/FSR) you barely need anything beyond a budget 6 core CPU. Often the RAM setups are what would kick a CPU up a few notches as well - my 5800x3D with the tuned 64GB of ram outperforms the stock review chip by over 10% in some gaming tests, putting it easily into the 7000 series CPU's range