(Anti) SFF fun house

[Mussels]

yeah im aware of that like, i've already got an OC on my A2000 going, but it's only the classic, easy one where you just drag your core/memory freq offset and hope it doesn't crater during load

i just can't seem to be able to unlock the voltages; im on the recentmost drivers & afterburner (wait jk i didnt update to 537.13 yet, it's still 536.99)

The article mentions voltages, which is why i thought it relevant.

Long ago you had to edit a damned text file to give consent for voltages, now it's just those dropdowns in AB - i've got no idea what's required for the workstation cards

 

[tabascosauz]

I've ran into situations where a driver can crash out (happened a lot with my memory overclocking testing and with GPU undervolt testing) and the GPU would get stuck in weird profiles, with afterburner having no effect on clock speeds.
Usually a full shutdown and PSU disconnect was enough to get things working properly here, plausible you had the same issue (even if the driver crash was from a different cause)

No it was a hardware issue, something about Gigabyte. Full shutdown and draining power is a different matter (the Aorus AX's inherent problem with networking not working/BIOS settings not saving).

There are only a handful of reports about this specific issue, but most if not all are around Gigabyte for whatever reason. The Strix is not my first choice for performance, but it works just fine. Have never seen the 30W issue again.

 

[Mussels]

No it was a hardware issue, something about Gigabyte. Full shutdown and draining power is a different matter (the Aorus AX's inherent problem with networking not working/BIOS settings not saving).

There are only a handful of reports about this specific issue, but most if not all are around Gigabyte for whatever reason. The Strix is not my first choice for performance, but it works just fine. Have never seen the 30W issue again.

Oh, that BIOS issue where auto settings use the last manual setting instead of going back to auto

I'm aware of that one, but not sure what the actual fix is

 

[tabascosauz]

The last piece of the puzzle
until VKB drops the rail STECS or WW surprise releases Super Taurus 2 then I will have to empty my wallet again

The gimbal itself is the star of the show. There is no stiction; it's wonderfully damped and the tension adjustment knobs also work well and give it a wide range of adjustment. The customizable and adjustable detents are also great and offer a lot of choice, and there can be up to 4 different profiles (on 4 different swappable frames).

The hats feel great. All 5 modules are swappable at will between buttons and hats. The hat caps are also swappable between the two types shown. Grip pads are customizable between 3 colors (so far).

Best part is the sheer level of programmability in vkbdevcfg as with most other vkb products. The Orion (at least with F18 kit) does have the advantage of an accurate speedbrake switch that has one momentary side and one captive side, but a little bit of effort in vkbdevcfg can get the same functionality on an otherwise normal 3-way hat on STECS.

The STEM, however, is pretty disappointing. TGL UP/DN is a surprisingly low quality switch. There are a lot of buttons but they just aren't very useful compared to the abundance of actual 2-way and 3-way switches on the Orion. Fortunately, the sheer amount of binds on the grip itself when equipped with 5 hats makes up for it somewhat, but the STEM is definitely underwhelming.

 

[tabascosauz]

Having spent some time now with various different LP coolers, it's interesting to see where they stand in relation to each other specifically when tested on Ryzen in the HT5 and Lone L5:

• L9x65: supreme clearance compatibility, poor overall performance, poor noise performance due to A9x14, improves noise but not performance when fitted with 120mm adapter.
• L12S: good performance, good noise from A12x15, very poor VRM and RAM clearance. Underslung fan not so great for drawing in outside air from inside a case.
• L12 Ghost S1: decent performance slightly below L12S, average noise from either NF-B9 or NF-A9, mediocre VRM clearance. Hard to mount, spring-loaded screws don't want to "catch".
• Big Shuriken 3: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance. Basically has only 1 possible orientation, not centered over socket in either axis.
• AXP120-x67: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance.

Haven't tried yet:

• Black Ridge: interesting config but doubtful that cooling would be competitive with AXP120-x67 or BS3. Introduces completely unnecessary RAM clearance issues.
• L9a: allows use of Noctua FD-1 kit and possibly a NF-A9, but is objectively one of the worst coolers and sorely lacking in heatsink area and mass.
• IS-67-XT: comparable to AXP120-x67 and BS3, but nowhere to be found.
• Wraith Prism: yuck

Whatever ST heat density challenges are usually posed by Ryzen 3000-7000 are magnified on these LP coolers. Hottest temps are often achieved while running simple tasks (e.g. Windows update) on 1 or 2 cores, not all-core loads. On more capable towers or even larger downdraft coolers (ie. C14S), ST temps are usually not that high until per-core power draw reaches the 15-20W range. On the APUs this usually caps out at about 8-10W, but still enough to push some of the weaker coolers on this list to 80C Tdie and beyond.

 

[Mussels]

the wraith prism is BEAUTIFUL but my god is the noise to performance atrocious


If you limit TDC, you'll reduce the peak amperage values and lower those spikes - by leaving PPT alone, you can keep the MT performance.
PBO and a -MHz offset can drastically change how those ST temps behave, too.

 

[tabascosauz]

Typical suggestions are "expand the Freesync range to prevent LFC" (not helpful, FPS never goes nearly that low for the duration of the flickering) or "get a monitor with actual G-sync module". Answer was apparently to just turn HAGS off. All the flickering stopped.

I've been looking into monitor upgrades to get AWAY from that flicker here, and everyone says its a VA panel issue - I was going to get the M32Q, before i got this kogan second hand for pennies
In my experience, most monitors have serious overshoot smearing on anything that isn't the balanced overdrive setting, the Rtings review for your screens should tell you if that holds true

Flickering Freesync/G-Sync(compatible) VRR is just something that seems to happen, caused by uneven frame delivery that swings wildly between max and min framerates of VESA VRR.

So

The other day I saw something that piqued my interest enough to revisit this topic. On 22H2 with all the MPO features, the flickering is now very rare, but sometimes still happens and it's the same 5-10min waiting game for it to go away on its own.

The idea is that the flickering comes from very fast oscillations between LFC on and LFC off. Not sure how exactly that would be relevant given that there is no framerate or refresh rate fluctuation that would warrant it, but an idea is an idea. Maybe the answer is not to prevent LFC by expanding VRR range, but to force LFC by restricting VRR range, by setting a high lower bound for VRR. Genshin is always 60fps locked, so setting VRR range to 80-165 for example should do the trick?

It's many months too early to tell if it made a difference, but in the past few days at least, I haven't seen any instances of flickering.

 

[Mussels]

The idea is that the flickering comes from very fast oscillations between LFC on and LFC off.

This is an issue usually only with VA panels, as their brightness changes at different refresh rates.
The only solution is to shrink the range - raise the lower end up, until it's not flickering any longer.

Your idea of 60FPS -> 120Hz should work just fine, you can raise the minimum

The problem with trying to get LFC working consistently is that it can break on you at any time, as some games/programs/overlays screw with VRR and disable it (or games like borderlands where cinematics are locked to 30FPS, you'd be at something entirely unexpected)


M32Q is IPS and shouldn't suffer this issue - is it one of the monitor settings like overdrive?
Are you on HDMI, because your bandwidth values, especially horizontal are far, far below mine

If your actual bandwidth used is higher than those values, it'll break your VRR entirely - if you need 300KHz horizontal and can't get it, you'll have a flickery mess. These do vary a lot between displays, i've got three 4K 60Hz displays that all have massively different horizontal sync - usually much lower on HDMI than DP.


Oh and lock your display to 8 bit in windows - 10 bit breaks MPO, and therefore anything with an overlay will break Gsync/Freesync on you.

 

[tabascosauz]

This is an issue usually only with VA panels, as their brightness changes at different refresh rates.
The only solution is to shrink the range - raise the lower end up, until it's not flickering any longer.

Your idea of 60FPS -> 120Hz should work just fine, you can raise the minimum

The problem with trying to get LFC working consistently is that it can break on you at any time, as some games/programs/overlays screw with VRR and disable it (or games like borderlands where cinematics are locked to 30FPS, you'd be at something entirely unexpected)


M32Q is IPS and shouldn't suffer this issue - is it one of the monitor settings like overdrive?
Are you on HDMI, because your bandwidth values, especially horizontal are far, far below mine


If your actual bandwidth used is higher than those values, it'll break your VRR entirely - if you need 300KHz horizontal and can't get it, you'll have a flickery mess. These do vary a lot between displays, i've got three 4K 60Hz displays that all have massively different horizontal sync - usually much lower on HDMI than DP.


Oh and lock your display to 8 bit in windows - 10 bit breaks MPO, and therefore anything with an overlay will break Gsync/Freesync on you.

Nah, both S2721DGF and M32Q do not care about overdrive. More relaxed overdrive modes have nothing to do with it. I'm on DP 1.2 for both.

S2721DGF has 10-bit (FRC) at 1440p165, but 8-bit vs 10-bit makes no difference. The M32Q does not do 10-bit at 1440p above 144Hz. Probably because the port on the S2721DGF is 1.4 while the port is 1.2 only on M32Q.

So far haven't seen any flickering at all after some long hours at min 80Hz, so who knows? Truly one of the enigmas of all time. Testing continues.

Same default clocks for S2721DGF:

 

[Mussels]

8-bit vs 10-bit makes no difference

It does, because it disables MPO
Everything is forced to run at a single internal frate rate then - same applies for secondary displays, MPO only works on the primary and at 8 bit colour.

May not be related to your issue, but you definitely get weirdness when you have mismatched refresh rates on anything trying to render to both displays

 

[Yashyyyk]

View attachment 314012

Having spent some time now with various different LP coolers, it's interesting to see where they stand in relation to each other specifically when tested on Ryzen in the HT5 and Lone L5:

• L9x65: supreme clearance compatibility, poor overall performance, poor noise performance due to A9x14, improves noise but not performance when fitted with 120mm adapter.
• L12S: good performance, good noise from A12x15, very poor VRM and RAM clearance. Underslung fan not so great for drawing in outside air from inside a case.
• L12 Ghost S1: decent performance slightly below L12S, average noise from either NF-B9 or NF-A9, mediocre VRM clearance. Hard to mount, spring-loaded screws don't want to "catch".
• Big Shuriken 3: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance. Basically has only 1 possible orientation, not centered over socket in either axis.
• AXP120-x67: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance.

Haven't tried yet:

• Black Ridge: interesting config but doubtful that cooling would be competitive with AXP120-x67 or BS3. Introduces completely unnecessary RAM clearance issues.
• L9a: allows use of Noctua FD-1 kit and possibly a NF-A9, but is objectively one of the worst coolers and sorely lacking in heatsink area and mass.
• IS-67-XT: comparable to AXP120-x67 and BS3, but nowhere to be found.
• Wraith Prism: yuck

Whatever ST heat density challenges are usually posed by Ryzen 3000-7000 are magnified on these LP coolers. Hottest temps are often achieved while running simple tasks (e.g. Windows update) on 1 or 2 cores, not all-core loads. On more capable towers or even larger downdraft coolers (ie. C14S), ST temps are usually not that high until per-core power draw reaches the 15-20W range. On the APUs this usually caps out at about 8-10W, but still enough to push some of the weaker coolers on this list to 80C Tdie and beyond.

I tried both the BS3 and the L12S with a 13600K (145W PL?) in a Meshlicious - the BS3 is significantly louder/can't cool as well.
I was kinda disappointed because it seemed like the benchmark for SFF for a long time? (Obviously we have way higher default power draw CPUs now so maybe that's why)

I think the AXP120-67 would also be a good pick, but I like how silent the L12S is (I mean you can set the fan curves/PL however so idk, but ultimately the L12S will probably cool less?)

Also on an unrelated note I am very annoyed there is no single fan RTX 4070 (200W just like the single fan 1080/2070(S)/3060Tis)

And not as bad but no higher performance non-WC'd single slot cards besides the A4000 (Galax Katana 1070 successor when?)

 

[Space Lynx]

if I ever go SDD I am just going to copy one of Optimum Tech's builds step by step... these builds are gorgeous

 

[tabascosauz]

I tried both the BS3 and the L12S with a 13600K (145W PL?) in a Meshlicious - the BS3 is significantly louder/can't cool as well.
I was kinda disappointed because it seemed like the benchmark for SFF for a long time? (Obviously we have way higher default power draw CPUs now so maybe that's why)

I think the AXP120-67 would also be a good pick, but I like how silent the L12S is (I mean you can set the fan curves/PL however so idk, but ultimately the L12S will probably cool less?)

Also on an unrelated note I am very annoyed there is no single fan RTX 4070 (200W just like the single fan 1080/2070(S)/3060Tis)

And not as bad but no higher performance non-WC'd single slot cards besides the A4000 (Galax Katana 1070 successor when?)

It is my opinion that the AXP120 does edge out the BS3 by a fair bit. No way to conduct a fair test anymore though. I like the L12S a lot, but it causes massive clearance issues on most of my boards and is therefore unusable. On the bench it's still ok, with fan on top. Very quiet as expected from A12x15 (though the other two also enjoy the same fan swap).

Going off of feel alone, BS3 lacks a fair bit of mass compared to L12S. Maybe I'm wrong and need to re-check spec sheet

I hope in the not too distant future, post-Meteor Lake Intel will be more viable for this form factor so I can enjoy some of that good ol' blue stuff in here

It does, because it disables MPO
Everything is forced to run at a single internal frate rate then - same applies for secondary displays, MPO only works on the primary and at 8 bit colour.

Dunno what to tell ya, unless both MS and Nvidia are simultaneously lying. Maybe you're thinking of HDR? No HDR pour moi

in this config, windowed VRR game still works fine on both monitors (Win+arrowkeys), moving between both on the fly

G-sync indicator does only shows up on primary display (M32Q), but there's no ambiguity about G-sync working just fine on the S2721DGF.

May not be related to your issue, but you definitely get weirdness when you have mismatched refresh rates on anything trying to render to both displays

the exact reason I didn't stick around with red team

 

[Mussels]

Dunno what to tell ya, unless both MS and Nvidia are simultaneously lying. Maybe you're thinking of HDR? No HDR pour moi

You're misunderstanding

It doesnt disable VRR - it disables MPO.
MPO works with or without VRR and is a massive help to both, that allows the overlay planes/layers to run seperate frame rates (four layers)


MPO allows four layers at four different frame rates.
Think:
Layer 0: Display output (What you see, native res)
Layer 1: DWM.exe windows desktop at native or virtual resolution (Forced Vsync + 2 frame render ahead) - upcoming Win 11 update will have this layer at 60FPS, to save power/let GPUs downclock.
Layer 2: Game (DXGI swap, allows virtual resolutions/DPI scaling different to desktop)
Layer 3: Overlays (discord, volume, steam, etc etc etc)

(These layers are my own understanding and not the official ones, but work well for an example)

If you wonder "how can my desktop do 300% scaling without breaking my game/youtube video etc" - MPO is the answer. It's rendered 'offscreen' then shuffled over like it was a dual GPU setup

Each layer can be their own framerate here - so a 30FPS windows volume toolbar doesnt drop your entire display to 30FPS until it's gone (the most common complaint, especially with third party volume overlays like corsair/logitech etc)

Without MPO, they're all forced to run the one frame rate - or you need games running Fullscreen Exclusive (the old method like DX9 used where the screen blanks on an alt-tab and multi monitor has issues) where modern overlays tend to not work at all.

Special K will show you this, little else does.

 

[tabascosauz]

You're misunderstanding

It doesnt disable VRR - it disables MPO.
MPO works with or without VRR and is a massive help to both, that allows the overlay planes/layers to run seperate frame rates (four layers)


MPO allows four layers at four different frame rates.
Think:
Layer 0: Display output (What you see, native res)
Layer 1: DWM.exe windows desktop at native or virtual resolution (Forced Vsync + 2 frame render ahead) - upcoming Win 11 update will have this layer at 60FPS, to save power/let GPUs downclock.
Layer 2: Game (DXGI swap, allows virtual resolutions/DPI scaling different to desktop)
Layer 3: Overlays (discord, volume, steam, etc etc etc)

(These layers are my own understanding and not the official ones, but work well for an example)

If you wonder "how can my desktop do 300% scaling without breaking my game/youtube video etc" - MPO is the answer. It's rendered 'offscreen' then shuffled over like it was a dual GPU setup

Each layer can be their own framerate here - so a 30FPS windows volume toolbar doesnt drop your entire display to 30FPS until it's gone (the most common complaint, especially with third party volume overlays like corsair/logitech etc)

Without MPO, they're all forced to run the one frame rate - or you need games running Fullscreen Exclusive (the old method like DX9 used where the screen blanks on an alt-tab and multi monitor has issues) where modern overlays tend to not work at all.

Special K will show you this, little else does.

I'm not talking about VRR as Freesync. Nor am I talking about windowed Gsync from NVCP. I'm talking about windowed VRR as the Windows setting in 21H2 and later. It relies on MPO, and it's extremely obvious for Unity games whether it's working or not.

 

[Mussels]

I'm not talking about VRR as Freesync. Nor am I talking about windowed Gsync from NVCP. I'm talking about windowed VRR as the Windows setting in 21H2 and later. It relies on MPO, and it's extremely obvious for Unity games whether it's working or not.

Windowed Gsync can work without MPO - that changes the entire display based on the frame rate of one windowed application (to the lowest value)
iCue used to do this, it's 30FPS animation would lock the display down on users - some didnt notice, but on 75Hz Freesync displays it was obvious


With MPO, they can all be displayed at the higher/highest value instead
(Because it moves a low frame rate overlay to the overlay plane, letting the Desktop/game run at the higher values)

Windowed games and DWM being desynced requires DXGI flip that only works in DX12 and vulkan, and that's an entirely separate nightmare

 

[tabascosauz]

Windowed Gsync can work without MPO - that changes the entire display based on the frame rate of one windowed application (to the lowest value)

With MPO, they can all be displayed at the higher/highest value instead

Hence why I said I'm not talking about windows G-sync in NVCP, nor is it enabled...

I can see where you get the idea from, but Special K doing some sussy things when switching between 8-bit and 10-bit so I'm not sure how reliable it is as a source

I run the risk of getting banned if I try to use Special K in-game (if it even works), so this is as much info as i can get, although i would really like to see exactly the type of flip model it's using in-game

8-bit vs. 10-bit:

 

[londiste]

View attachment 314012

Having spent some time now with various different LP coolers, it's interesting to see where they stand in relation to each other specifically when tested on Ryzen in the HT5 and Lone L5:

• L9x65: supreme clearance compatibility, poor overall performance, poor noise performance due to A9x14, improves noise but not performance when fitted with 120mm adapter.
• L12S: good performance, good noise from A12x15, very poor VRM and RAM clearance. Underslung fan not so great for drawing in outside air from inside a case.
• L12 Ghost S1: decent performance slightly below L12S, average noise from either NF-B9 or NF-A9, mediocre VRM clearance. Hard to mount, spring-loaded screws don't want to "catch".
• Big Shuriken 3: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance. Basically has only 1 possible orientation, not centered over socket in either axis.
• AXP120-x67: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance.

Haven't tried yet:

• Black Ridge: interesting config but doubtful that cooling would be competitive with AXP120-x67 or BS3. Introduces completely unnecessary RAM clearance issues.
• L9a: allows use of Noctua FD-1 kit and possibly a NF-A9, but is objectively one of the worst coolers and sorely lacking in heatsink area and mass.
• IS-67-XT: comparable to AXP120-x67 and BS3, but nowhere to be found.
• Wraith Prism: yuck

Whatever ST heat density challenges are usually posed by Ryzen 3000-7000 are magnified on these LP coolers. Hottest temps are often achieved while running simple tasks (e.g. Windows update) on 1 or 2 cores, not all-core loads. On more capable towers or even larger downdraft coolers (ie. C14S), ST temps are usually not that high until per-core power draw reaches the 15-20W range. On the APUs this usually caps out at about 8-10W, but still enough to push some of the weaker coolers on this list to 80C Tdie and beyond.

Pretty sure you already know that but LP coolers are essentially classed by height and in quite small steps. Cases tend to have clearance of 40mm, 50mm, 70mm and then beyond that.
- L9x65 is 51mm. 66mm with the 92x14mm fan.
- L12S is 70mm. 120x15mm fan (under the heatsink).
- L12S Ghost S1 is 66mm. 92x25mm fan (under the heatsink).
- Big Shuriken 3 is 53mm. 69mm with 120x17mm fan.
- AXP120-x67 is 52mm. 67mm with 120x15mm fan.

- Black Ridge is 47mm. 92x15mm fan (under the heatsink).
- L9a is 23mm. 37mm with 92x14mm fan.
- IS-67-XT is 62mm. 67mm with 120x15mm fan.
- You probably meant Wraith Stealth, it is 54mm.

Performance follows the height and fan size. Everything you have tried is 70mm class. Black Ridge is 15-20mm lower. L9a is another 10mm lower than that (Intel counterpart L9i is or at least used to be even smaller).
Fan size matters (more than thickness). 120mm fan, even a LP one will outperform a 92mm fan, given that there is heatsink space to cool. For L12 Ghost S1 a 120x14mm fan should generally outperform the included 92x25mm one. For Black Ridge 120x14 fan will absolutely outperform the included 92x15mm one.

While I have tried L9x65, L12S and Big Shuriken, most of the time the cases have been narrower than that.
- Wraith Stealth does a good enough job in cooling but the noise is quite bad for what it does.
- L9a did a comparatively amazing job, same performance as Wraith Stealth but much smaller and much quieter.
- Then went to Cryorig C7 and later C7 Cu (basically for shits and giggles). Basically the same size as L9a and same-ish performance with same fan (included one obviously much worse than Noctua's). Cu did shave a few degrees off the temperature but was not exactly worth it.
- Tried quite a few other coolers but these did not leave a lasting impression.
- Now for the last 4-5 years have a A4 SFX, so Black Ridge was the obvious choice being built for that case. Switched the small fan for 120x14mm with all the mounting headaches and finding VLP memory but it was worth it. At the same time, even this does not really perform all too well in grand scheme of things. To keep the noise low - fan at max ~1250rpm my 5800X3D is running limited to 76W.

 

[tabascosauz]

Pretty sure you already know that but LP coolers are essentially classed by height and in quite small steps. Cases tend to have clearance of 40mm, 50mm, 70mm and then beyond that.
- L9x65 is 51mm. 66mm with the 92x14mm fan.
- L12S is 70mm. 120x15mm fan (under the heatsink).
- L12S Ghost S1 is 66mm. 92x25mm fan (under the heatsink).
- Big Shuriken 3 is 53mm. 69mm with 120x17mm fan.
- AXP120-x67 is 52mm. 67mm with 120x15mm fan.

- Black Ridge is 47mm. 92x15mm fan (under the heatsink).
- L9a is 23mm. 37mm with 92x14mm fan.
- IS-67-XT is 62mm. 67mm with 120x15mm fan.
- You probably meant Wraith Stealth, it is 54mm.

Performance follows the height and fan size. Everything you have tried is 70mm class. Black Ridge is 15-20mm lower. L9a is another 10mm lower than that (Intel counterpart L9i is or at least used to be even smaller).
Fan size matters (more than thickness). 120mm fan, even a LP one will outperform a 92mm fan, given that there is heatsink space to cool. For L12 Ghost S1 a 120x14mm fan should generally outperform the included 92x25mm one. For Black Ridge 120x14 fan will absolutely outperform the included 92x15mm one.

While I have tried L9x65, L12S and Big Shuriken, most of the time the cases have been narrower than that.
- Wraith Stealth does a good enough job in cooling but the noise is quite bad for what it does.
- L9a did a comparatively amazing job, same performance as Wraith Stealth but much smaller and much quieter.
- Then went to Cryorig C7 and later C7 Cu (basically for shits and giggles). Basically the same size as L9a and same-ish performance with same fan (included one obviously much worse than Noctua's). Cu did shave a few degrees off the temperature but was not exactly worth it.
- Tried quite a few other coolers but these did not leave a lasting impression.
- Now for the last 4-5 years have a A4 SFX, so Black Ridge was the obvious choice being built for that case. Switched the small fan for 120x14mm with all the mounting headaches and finding VLP memory but it was worth it. At the same time, even this does not really perform all too well in grand scheme of things. To keep the noise low - fan at max ~1250rpm my 5800X3D is running limited to 76W.

I meant the Wraith Prism, even if it's 107mm. For test bench use out of curiosity. Spire and Stealth fit but don't offer even close to a minimum level of performance and noise I want. Unfortunately I sold my only 3700X Wraith Prism (which I didn't even use).

I don't feel like it's exactly a fair comparison between these that's why I deliberately kept the results vague to give them a bit of a margin. Half the coolers are underslung and the other half are fan on top, and half of them are C-type while the others are conventional downdraft.

L12S and L12 Ghost S1 have only a small practical difference. On the open bench the L12S stretches its legs a bit. Regardless, L12S is so far in the red in terms of compatibility, it's not in the running.

 

[AleXXX666]

------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

Austere Box:
#40 Enter the Cerberus
#41 Ol' Beastie becomes Austere Box
#74 12-core Austere Box
#98 REEEEEEEEEEEEE IT'S NOT 20L IT'S NOT SFF REEEEEEEEEEEE



Ol' Beastie:
#2 History
#3 More history
#9 Misguided launch day ramblings about Ryzen
#21 RTX
#34 Upsizing to mATX
#35 More mATX
#52 Too big, go back
#53 Almost there
#58 Memory memeing with Renoir
#59 Moar APU memes
#72 Ol' Beastie is too big, Noctua controversy round 1
#73 The new 5.4L Ol' Beastie, acrylic APU powerhouse
#85 iGPU OC
#88 New plans
#94 Even more iGPU OC
#97 The new new 4.6L Ol' Beastie, size comparisons, Noctua controversy round 2

------------------------------------------------
Austere Box R5.2 (41.0L volume)
Caselabs Mercury S3:

View attachment 282047

------------------------------------------------
Ol' Beastie R6.1 (4.6L volume)
Lone Industries L5:

View attachment 310397

------------------------------------------------
​

the 1st looks "cool" in any mean. the 2nd looks "hot" in any mean DD

 

[tabascosauz]

For once, my under-desk cable situation is not so hideous as to prevent me from taking even a simple picture

Also bought one of these to complete my setup, finally am no longer sad and UFC-less in the Viper, even cobbled together some spare 1020 parts into a mount for it

Just waiting for some Foxx and Predator Mounts parts to put my VKB SEM-V back into service, and we'll finally wrap up this neverending tinkering cycle.

Here's to a better year ahead in 2024.

 

[tabascosauz]

Been a couple months, got some updates to things:

Big PC

• 7800X3D: couldn't resist
• B650E PG/ITX: couldn't resist; also, would you look at that VRM?? Hoping that this board will serve for a long while.
• 64GB Hynix: feels great to have enough RAM for DCS, good Hynix kit, and all in 2 low profile white sticks with NO RGB
• AM5 contact frame: is a beautiful thing, and for the first time, no more cleaning paste out of little crevices
• U12A: no, it's not great value, but simplifying things, cutting down on 1 fan, and greatly decluttering the whole board area is nice. Bundled offset brackets are helping it keep up with FC140 and PA120 for no change in temps, while being half the size.

Smol PC

• 5800X3D/Impact/32GB B-die: got all the hand-me-downs from the big PC, no surprises, everything working as expected
• Moving back into the Lazer3D HT5...not my first choice, but the case is wonderfully packed to the brim for the first time ever as SFF should be

Other stuff

• Hydraulic damper mod for T-rudder coming up this week. Exciting times ahead
• Moved the 43QN90B and all sim stuff off of main desk (IKEA IDASEN + 60x30x1.75" rubberwood top) onto second side desk (IKEA TROTTEN + 48x25x1.75" beech top)

 

[A Computer Guy]

View attachment 314012

Having spent some time now with various different LP coolers, it's interesting to see where they stand in relation to each other specifically when tested on Ryzen in the HT5 and Lone L5:

• L9x65: supreme clearance compatibility, poor overall performance, poor noise performance due to A9x14, improves noise but not performance when fitted with 120mm adapter.
• L12S: good performance, good noise from A12x15, very poor VRM and RAM clearance. Underslung fan not so great for drawing in outside air from inside a case.
• L12 Ghost S1: decent performance slightly below L12S, average noise from either NF-B9 or NF-A9, mediocre VRM clearance. Hard to mount, spring-loaded screws don't want to "catch".
• Big Shuriken 3: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance. Basically has only 1 possible orientation, not centered over socket in either axis.
• AXP120-x67: good performance, good noise with A12x15, average VRM clearance.

Haven't tried yet:

• Black Ridge: interesting config but doubtful that cooling would be competitive with AXP120-x67 or BS3. Introduces completely unnecessary RAM clearance issues.
• L9a: allows use of Noctua FD-1 kit and possibly a NF-A9, but is objectively one of the worst coolers and sorely lacking in heatsink area and mass.
• IS-67-XT: comparable to AXP120-x67 and BS3, but nowhere to be found.
• Wraith Prism: yuck

Whatever ST heat density challenges are usually posed by Ryzen 3000-7000 are magnified on these LP coolers. Hottest temps are often achieved while running simple tasks (e.g. Windows update) on 1 or 2 cores, not all-core loads. On more capable towers or even larger downdraft coolers (ie. C14S), ST temps are usually not that high until per-core power draw reaches the 15-20W range. On the APUs this usually caps out at about 8-10W, but still enough to push some of the weaker coolers on this list to 80C Tdie and beyond.

L12S also comes with the AM4/AM5 offset mounting kit.

 

[tabascosauz]

L12S also comes with the AM4/AM5 offset mounting kit.

Is it even usable? L12S seems like regardless of which direction you move it, it'll hit something

 

[A Computer Guy]

Is it even usable? L12S seems like regardless of which direction you move it, it'll hit something

It was a perfect fit for B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax in my Silverstone ML-09B that I used with my 5950x likely because the NVMe heatsink doesn't stick out like other boards heatsinks and bump into the fan.

Also I was able to use the unused offset parts (see below) on my other B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax in my NR200P that was using NH-C14S with 5800x. Noctua doesn't list it as compatible with NH-C14S but while the north plate uses the adjusted 7mm offset I discovered I just had to flip the south plate upside down to make up the longer distance of the NH-C14S mount points. This puts slightly more NH-C14S heat pipe area over the CCD's although a bit hangs over the chip.