Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[AusWolf]

I don't see why you guys need to delid at all. My 7800x3d in games doesn't even break 55 celsius most of the time, though they are older games like Sleeping Dogs, but even Guardians of the Galaxies completely maxed out 165hz 165 fps 1440p... I didn't even budge past 68 celsius. I absolutely love this rig

Completely agreed. All you need for Ryzen 7000 is a capable enough cooler (or the non-X variant of the chip).

Agreed. It's a good start, but to make the most of a delid on just about any platform these days there really needs to either be a custom heatspreader or direct die.

Why would anyone delid a CPU without any plans for direct die cooling?

 

[Space Lynx]

I don't see why you guys need to delid at all. My 7800x3d in games doesn't even break 55 celsius most of the time, though they are older games like Sleeping Dogs, but even Guardians of the Galaxies completely maxed out 165hz 165 fps 1440p... I didn't even budge past 68 celsius. I absolutely love this rig

I was actually wrong. I just ran the guardians of galaxy benchmark fully maxed out for 5 loops, then I scanned gpu-z cpu temp line - max temp was 63 celsius during the bench, but most of the time it was around 57-59 celsius.

Wild, I didn't think the 7800x3d would run this cold

maybe my AM5 Contact Frame is actually helping temps? I don't know, but yeah I see no reason to delid at all. very happy with these temps

 

[AusWolf]

I was actually wrong. I just ran the guardians of galaxy benchmark fully maxed out for 5 loops, then I scanned gpu-z cpu temp line - max temp was 63 celsius during the bench, but most of the time it was around 57-59 celsius.

Wild, I didn't think the 7800x3d would run this cold

maybe my AM5 Contact Frame is actually helping temps? I don't know, but yeah I see no reason to delid at all. very happy with these temps

Nah - it runs cold because it's far from being 100% utilised. If you look at your CPU package power consumption while gaming, you'll be even more surprised.

 

[Space Lynx]

Nah - it runs cold because it's far from being 100% utilised. If you look at your CPU package power consumption while gaming, you'll be even more surprised.

true but even cinebench r23 multi only hits about 82 celsius for me after a 10 min run and that's max, usually its around 79. and I don't think any game can ever push it that hard to my knowledge? so that means my temps for gaming will always be pretty decent no?

 

[tabascosauz]

true but even cinebench r23 multi only hits about 82 celsius for me after a 10 min run and that's max, usually its around 79. and I don't think any game can ever push it that hard to my knowledge? so that means my temps for gaming will always be pretty decent no?

It's not the same. 7800X3D's density problem shows itself very often in Tctl/Tdie showing high temps but none of the cores showing anything close to it. Only when you hammer all cores can you see both reaching high temps.

It's not that hard. I can fire up Helldivers 2, DCS, or BF2042 and almost immediately see high 70s on Tctl/Tdie. One or two degrees off from my R23 temps. It's not any cooler (and usually runs hotter under load) than a 5800X3D.

 

[AusWolf]

true but even cinebench r23 multi only hits about 82 celsius for me after a 10 min run and that's max, usually its around 79. and I don't think any game can ever push it that hard to my knowledge? so that means my temps for gaming will always be pretty decent no?

Totally. The 78X3D is a very conservative chip in terms of heat and power. It's the pinnacle of factory undervolting, one might say.

It's not the same. 7800X3D's density problem shows itself very often in Tctl/Tdie showing high temps but none of the cores showing anything close to it. Only when you hammer all cores can you see both reaching high temps.

It's not that hard. I can fire up Helldivers 2, DCS, or BF2042 and almost immediately see high 70s on Tctl/Tdie. One or two degrees off from my R23 temps. It's not any cooler (and usually runs hotter under load) than a 5800X3D.

High 70s is still not hot by any means, as long as it's not constant, imo.

 

[tabascosauz]

Totally. The 78X3D is a very conservative chip in terms of heat and power. It's the pinnacle of factory undervolting, one might say.

High 70s is still not hot by any means, as long as it's not constant, imo.

Not constant, but hardly an errant spike either. Only full all-core would be constant, anyway. Regardless, if temps are low, then game CPU load is low.

And on second thought, DCS CPU load can be pretty close to constant high temps (75C+) depending on environment. That's with only 2-3 core load.

 

[Cifu]

The 7600X, 7700X and the 2 CCD CPU's (79x0 series) have quite a like a hell-hole.
Yea, I know this is normal and the CPU wont burn down at 95°C, but it's needed a good air cooler none the less.
My 7700X with NH-D15 stock settings at full RPM (yea, even a noctua loud at ~1500 RPM) almost reach the thermal limit under CB23 stress test:

 

[tabascosauz]

The 7600X, 7700X and the 2 CCD CPU's (79x0 series) have quite a like a hell-hole.
Yea, I know this is normal and the CPU wont burn down at 95°C, but it's needed a good air cooler none the less.
My 7700X with NH-D15 stock settings at full RPM (yea, even a noctua load at ~1500 RPM) almost reach the thermal limit under CB23 stress test:

iirc the 95C parts need temp limit + CO + power limit, no? Some extra steps. In an old video ali brought his 7700X down to 60C while losing negligible clocks.

Fixing Ryzen 7000 - PBO2 Tune (insanity) (youtube.com)

 

[Space Lynx]

It's not the same. 7800X3D's density problem shows itself very often in Tctl/Tdie showing high temps but none of the cores showing anything close to it. Only when you hammer all cores can you see both reaching high temps.

It's not that hard. I can fire up Helldivers 2, DCS, or BF2042 and almost immediately see high 70s on Tctl/Tdie. One or two degrees off from my R23 temps. It's not any cooler (and usually runs hotter under load) than a 5800X3D.

so gpu-z is pointless for cpu temperature monitoring with an x3d chip, and you need to use hwinfo.



I am going to run the same 5 benches of guardians then check hwinfo

 

[tabascosauz]

so gpu-z is pointless for cpu temperature monitoring with an x3d chip, and you need to use hwinfo.



I am going to run the same 5 benches of guardians then check hwinfo

idk about "pointless", it's probably reading the same Tctl/tdie value. Just that reading 1 value doesn't exactly tell you what's going on with a Ryzen.

 

[AusWolf]

The 7600X, 7700X and the 2 CCD CPU's (79x0 series) have quite a like a hell-hole.
Yea, I know this is normal and the CPU wont burn down at 95°C, but it's needed a good air cooler none the less.
My 7700X with NH-D15 stock settings at full RPM (yea, even a noctua load at ~1500 RPM) almost reach the thermal limit under CB23 stress test:

That's actually a pretty good result.

I popped my 7700X back in for some testing, and mine does reach the temperature limit with a Dark Rock 4, albeit, just barely (I lose only about 50 MHz on average).

iirc the 95C parts need temp limit + CO + power limit, no?

Definitely. I might have a go at it later, although, even this chip is pretty conservative in gaming.

Even folding/crunching with all cores doesn't heat it up above the high 80s.

so gpu-z is pointless for cpu temperature monitoring with an x3d chip, and you need to use hwinfo.

No, it's not. Just not as detailed, as it only gives you the hottest temperature of the CPU as a single reading.

 

[Space Lynx]

idk about "pointless", it's probably reading the same Tctl/tdie value. Just that reading 1 value doesn't exactly tell you what's going on with a Ryzen.

gpu-z highest temp was 61 celsius reported. and i scanned the entire graph for the benchmark runs. but here it shows 77 celsius with a peak of 82 celsius

well this isn't horrible, but damn it is a little disappointing. i guess guardians of the galaxy is a single core heavy game. based on this reading lol

 

[tabascosauz]

gpu-z highest temp was 61 celsius reported. and i scanned the entire graph for the benchmark runs. but here it shows 77 celsius with a peak of 82 celsius

well this isn't horrible, but damn it is a little disappointing. i guess guardians of the galaxy is a single core heavy game. based on this reading lol

Yeah but unless there is also sustained high per-core power draw on core 3, who's to say it wasn't just a spike? That's why we use HWInfo.

It still performs great, just don't look at the temps

Welcome to the future, best get used to the temps.

 

[Cifu]

iirc the 95C parts need temp limit + CO + power limit, no? Some extra steps. In an old video ali brought his 7700X down to 60C while losing negligible clocks.

Fixing Ryzen 7000 - PBO2 Tune (insanity) (youtube.com)

After several own testing I find with CO-10 all core the 115W PPT limit the "sweet spot" for me.
Pre-delid even the CB23 stress test won't bring the CPU above 85°C and gaming mainly remain below 80°C with ~850 RPM CPU cooler (the RTX 4080 become the main noise provider here).

 

[Nordic]

I don't see why you guys need to delid at all. My 7800x3d in games doesn't even break 55 celsius most of the time, though they are older games like Sleeping Dogs, but even Guardians of the Galaxies completely maxed out 165hz 165 fps 1440p... I didn't even budge past 68 celsius. I absolutely love this rig

Ryzen will keep pushing it's boost clock upto your thermal limit if you let it. It took overkill expensive water cooling to get 19400 R23. Delidding would transfer more heat to my cooling loop faster. Beyond a certain point cooling will not improve performance for Ryzen, but I don't want heat to be my limitation.

 

[AusWolf]

Ryzen will keep pushing it's boost clock upto your thermal limit if you let it.

Not necessarily. The 7800X3D will never reach its thermal limit with good enough cooling. It's only X-variants that have much higher clock/power limits that they could reach without ruining into thermal limits first with any reasonable cooler.

Power/clock/voltage/thermal limits regulate every modern CPU - whichever limit it reaches first is the deciding factor on your performance.

 

[freeagent]

I guess AM5 is a bit spicier than AM4.. those are some spicy parts.

 

[Space Lynx]

Just one final question, I'd like to make sure all four main temperatures of my 7800x3d look right at idle with a 360mm AIO? This level of discrepancy from tctl 40 celsius to ccd's being mid 20's is normal right?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Just one final question, I'd like to make sure all four main temperatures of my 7800x3d look right at idle with a 360mm AIO? This level of discrepancy from tctl 40 celsius to ccd's being mid 20's is normal right?

View attachment 348253

To me, everything looks good. Nothing out of sorts there. With differences of less than 3C between CPU cores you have nothing to be concerned about. The differences between the CCX and the CPU dies are normal.

 

[AusWolf]

I keep hearing USB disconnect sounds while gaming. If I remember correctly from AM4, it means that I need more SoC voltage, right?

According to HWinfo, I'm running 1.21 V with 3000/2000 MHz IMC/IF. I thought this was supposed to be enough with every chip.

 

[tabascosauz]

I keep hearing USB disconnect sounds while gaming. If I remember correctly from AM4, it means that I need more SoC voltage, right?

According to HWinfo, I'm running 1.21 V with 3000/2000 MHz IMC/IF. I thought this was supposed to be enough with every chip.

Well now there's a new inverse relationship between VSOC and FCLK, so it's not as simple as it once was. If anything, your VSOC might be too high instead, higher doesn't always help FCLK.

I haven't had any USB issues, though, at anywhere between 0.95V and 1.25V.

 

[AusWolf]

Well now there's a new inverse relationship between VSOC and FCLK, so it's not as simple as it once was. If anything, your VSOC might be too high instead, higher doesn't always help FCLK.

That would be weird considering that my board's default with these settings is 1.3 V.

 

[JWNoctis]

To me, everything looks good. Nothing out of sorts there. With differences of less than 3C between CPU cores you have nothing to be concerned about. The differences between the CCX and the CPU dies are normal.

Not that it makes much difference, but here's a related but probably obvious observation: Since there is an apparently valid CCD1 L3 temperature value on the single-CCD 7800X3D - valid in value, not valid in that it's actually measuring anything other than the substrate temperature at the spot - the thermal diode measuring that temperature is presumably in the packaging substrate under the CCD footprint, below where the non-3D L3 would be (or have been).

And a question for the knowledgeable: Do non-X3D parts get as much temperature delta between the cores and the CCD hotspot, ~10 celsius here, especially at idle, now that it seemed that the L3 temperature is not actually the hotspot temperature inside the V-Cache stack?

I keep hearing USB disconnect sounds while gaming. If I remember correctly from AM4, it means that I need more SoC voltage, right?

According to HWinfo, I'm running 1.21 V with 3000/2000 MHz IMC/IF. I thought this was supposed to be enough with every chip.

FWIW mine is manually set to the stock 1.1 V at the same clocks, and seemed stable in stress tests with no memory errors, or errant USB disconnect sounds during those. It won't take any negative CO without failing those same tests, though. Maybe it's something else?

 

[Chomiq]

I keep hearing USB disconnect sounds while gaming. If I remember correctly from AM4, it means that I need more SoC voltage, right?

According to HWinfo, I'm running 1.21 V with 3000/2000 MHz IMC/IF. I thought this was supposed to be enough with every chip.

You sure you don't have a broken USB cable somewhere?