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Zen5 only 16 core.

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I owned almost every generation from sandybridge to skylake it was a yawn fest to the point I jumped to hedt and they got stuck after that again only increasing core counts and cache... The biggest jump came from DDR4 based systems and even then it was rough during the first generation. Intel also left less and less overclocking headroom generation to generation so only if you looked at reviews the ST was decent, if you overclocked every chip they were much closer.
It might have felt like a yawnfest at the time because of what came before - huge performance jumps gen on gen. The jump from nehalem to sandy bridge was massive - within a year as well, so everything that followed might have felt very meh in comparison. But that doesn't mean it's any worse than it is today. If you grab the last few generations of zen at constant prices - how much do you think the jump is from 3700x ---> 5600x ---> 7600x? That's 4 years, equivalent to 3770k ---> 6700k. The latter is a 29% performance increase in MT workloads. The former is what, 15-20%?

I agree due to how overclockable the early intel chips were, it wasn't worth upgrading, but i've read numerous times in these forums that people run stock :D
 
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It might have felt like a yawnfest at the time because of what came before - huge performance jumps gen on gen. The jump from nehalem to sandy bridge was massive - within a year as well, so everything that followed might have felt very meh in comparison. But that doesn't mean it's any worse than it is today. If you grab the last few generations of zen at constant prices - how much do you think the jump is from 3700x ---> 5600x ---> 7600x? That's 4 years, equivalent to 3770k ---> 6700k. The latter is a 29% performance increase in MT workloads. The former is what, 15-20%?

I agree due to how overclockable the early intel chips were, it wasn't worth upgrading, but i've read numerous times in these forums that people run stock :D

Yeah and why I stated amd not pushing the tiers down in my book is a mistake.

And I'm not saying the intel cpus were bad I still purchased 2000/4000/6000 series chips and enjoyed them they were just boring mostly due to no competition.

Back then it was worth overclocking now it's very debatable and most undervolt I'd imagine.
 
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to 3770k ---> 6700k. The latter is a 29% performance increase in MT workloads. The former is what, 15-20%?

I agree due to how overclockable the early intel chips were, it wasn't worth upgrading, but i've read numerous times in these forums that people run stock :D
It's amazing comparing old Tech.

Recently purchased a 14100F, you know, give it a whirl. After doing some number crunching involved with some research.
I found the 14100F is about as fast as a 6700/7700K between the figures of 6.5ghz and 7.0ghz under LN2 circumstances, while the 14100F is basically completely locked. dual and single core boosts of a great 4.7ghz, all core 4.5ghz.

Why not 17 cores AMD. Space isn't a problem! XD
 
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If space becomes a problem, just add an e-core... :D

They do have E cores it's called ZenC, also don't give them any ideas lol leave that shite to the mobile market.
 
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If so, why didn't they invent a new name for it? Something like Next Zen 1?
Zen 5 is just an evolution with small updates of the original Zen micro-architecture.
Do you know that Zen 5 Cores are also used at Threadripper and Epyc CPU's? There you can get more than Zen 5 16 Cores. It is not wise to talk about cores and confuse with the names of CPU's and Cores.
 

SL2

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If you grab the last few generations of zen at constant prices - how much do you think the jump is from 3700x ---> 5600x ---> 7600x? That's 4 years, equivalent to 3770k ---> 6700k. The latter is a 29% performance increase in MT workloads. The former is what, 15-20%?
I think you got it backwards here. :roll:5600X to 7600X alone was just as big of a jump as 870K to 2600K.

Feel free post some other benchmark. No p*ssmark or gikbench tho lol.

I'm looking at CineBench MT, the 7600X is 35% faster than the 5600X in R23 (overall 35 % in applications in TPU performance summary).

1717706307098.png

1717706574885.png

1717706762763.png

1717707879188.png
 
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No p*ssmark or gikbench tho lol.
Hey, without geekbench Apple fanboys would have nothing to get excited about for new launches.
 

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SL2

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Hey, without geekbench Apple fanboys would have nothing to get excited about for new launches.
You contradict yourself, almost. They get excited about new launches, period.

Gbench can just fuck off and all.

How the hell did it get so popular, even among x86?

Isn't there a better cross platform benchmark?
 
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Hey, without geekbench Apple fanboys would have nothing to get excited about for new launches.

At least he didn't use usercrapmarks.... I give him praise for that..... :laugh:

But I will say the 2600X to the 7600X or 2700X to the 7700X has been way more exciting than the 2600K to the 7700K regardless of core count staying the same.

Alderlake was a nice change but then we got 2 very similar generations again after it but only 14th gen I'd call boring besides the i7.

They were all good cpu though so does it really matter.

Some people like blue Kool-aid others Red both are pretty good these days.

You contradict yourself, almost. They get excited about new launches, period.

Gbench can just fuck off and all.

How the hell did it get so popular, even among x86?

Isn't there a better cross platform benchmark?

Not really and passmark has been useless for generations I can't even remember the last time I've looked at it to guage how good a cpu is.
 
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ARF

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But I will say the 2600X to the 7600X or 2700X to the 7700X has been way more exciting than the 2600K to the 7700K regardless of core count staying the same.

In both cases, the upgrade path is extremely questionable, and if you ask me, it's not worth it to upgrade a Ryzen 2000 series just yet.
 

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But I will say the 2600X to the 7600X or 2700X to the 7700X has been way more exciting than the 2600K to the 7700K regardless of core count staying the same.
I agree, but I was replying to an attempt to turn a price hike into low performance increase, talk about twisting numbers.

Intel would raise the prices if they could.
 
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In both cases, the upgrade path is extremely questionable, and if you ask me, it's not worth it to upgrade a Ryzen 2000 series just yet.

Do you play games? I play games.

I played using an R5 2600 for a while and then upgraded to an R5 5600.

It was a huge difference in recent CPU-limited games to where it turned by clear second-best system into my best. But what about 8+ year old e-sports games? Damn it made a huge difference there, too! Before, I couldn't play Rocket League at 144 FPS VSync as it'd temporarily fail down to 72fps during (LOL) "gpu-intensive" things like boosting or explosions. It could just about manage 120 FPS with no framedrops on almost all maps. Pop in the 5600 and 144 FPS is always-on. This is but one example.

The R5 2600 is still a good CPU with good uses but there are a lot of games which need more IPC. The total power is there and some games use it properly, like Cyberpunk. But many lean more heavily on 1 or 2 high IPC+clocked cores, necessitating an upgrade to maintain smooth frametimes even though average FPS were already well above 60.

Epilogue: I re-used the 2600 in another fun build. But then I put an R7 5700X3D in it.

That was also a welcome upgrade in performance!
 

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Do you play games? I play games.

I played using an R5 2600 for a while and then upgraded to an R5 5600.

It was a huge difference in recent CPU-limited games to where it turned by clear second-best system into my best. But what about 8+ year old e-sports games? Damn it made a huge difference there, too! Before, I couldn't play Rocket League at 144 FPS VSync as it'd temporarily fail down to 72fps during (LOL) "gpu-intensive" things like boosting or explosions. It could just about manage 120 FPS with no framedrops on almost all maps. Pop in the 5600 and 144 FPS is always-on. This is but one example.

The R5 2600 is still a good CPU with good uses but there are a lot of games which need more IPC. The total power is there and some games use it properly, like Cyberpunk. But many lean more heavily on 1 or 2 high IPC+clocked cores, necessitating an upgrade to maintain smooth frametimes even though average FPS were already well above 60.

Epilogue: I re-used the 2600 in another fun build. But then I put an R7 5700X3D in it.

That was also a welcome upgrade in performance!

Then increase the resolution, and/or decrease the settings. I see that you are using:

1717712056743.png

 
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In both cases, the upgrade path is extremely questionable, and if you ask me, it's not worth it to upgrade a Ryzen 2000 series just yet.




Na dog even at 4k ultra this was laughably bottlenecked in almost every game unless you are suggesting we should set games to 8k to not have a cpu bottleneck lmao...... even a 5800X3D is almost twice as fast in games.... This was a just for the lols build and I was mostly curious how 2000 series 6 core performed at the time.
 
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That is the point. With faster gaming CPUs, (8400, 9700F, 5600) a much slower GPU easily reaches 144fps locked with Hi+Max settings @1440p, like a 5600 XT, 6600 XT or a 2060 Super. I'm not sure the 3050 6GB can lock it at 1440p/144Hz Hi+Max but I think it can. Damn I've tested too many GPUs recently to remember.

But using the R5 2600 introduced occasional slowdowns and honestly if it were just a few frame dips here 'n there to like 120 or so it'd be fine. But the way Vsync works in this older game is if it doesn't sync at full fps, it drops to half fps: 72. That's noticeable and very annoying. You can play w/o Vsync but then there's frame tearing which I rly don't like.

But that's just one game, Horizon: Zero Dawn cannot maintain 60fps with an R5 2600, even OCd to 4GHz. You can turn details way down to keep it above 60 but it's already CPU bound with a 6600 XT at 1440p Hi+Ultra settings. Turning down graphics to avoid CPU-related dips means it's time for a better CPU. This is why it's so great to have higher IPC CPUs available in the same socket to upgrade to, even at the same core count.
 

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Na dog even at 4k ultra this was laughably bottlenecked in almost every game unless you are suggesting we should set games to 8k to not have a cpu bottleneck lmao...... even a 5800X3D is almost twice as fast in games.... This was a just for the lols build and I was mostly curious how 2000 series 6 core performed at the time.

R5 2600 introduced occasional slowdowns

This is why it's so great to have higher IPC CPUs available in the same socket to upgrade to, even at the same core count.

Na dogs there is a micro-stuttering, because the Windows requires more cores to operate properly, definitely more than 6 cores. 8-cores is the bare minimum, 12 cores is mid-range, 16-core is upper mid-range, and 24 cores is high-end | enthusiast class.

Hi! i'm back after a while i already made a similar post in the past but i did understand what was the cause kinda (shader caching basically) but right now i cannot understand why i do get micro stuttering in games..
Hardware:
Cpu ryzen 5 7600x
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I already tried to check for temperature, it's fine no throttling is happening
So rolling out the causes there is a list of what i think it might be:
Increasing the ram from 2x8gb to 2x16gb helped a bit with the issue somehow
Might still be Shader Caching Compiling but seems very strange (also because i do get this microstutter In-Game even after a full day of playing it's like it is (Re-Compiling them) or it's moving out a large amout of data and making the system hang.
Unstable CPU(?) i mean it's not overclocked and i have PBO disabled so i don't think it's this.
If anyone has any good advice they can provide i would really love it!
(this happens in most games but not all of them, also i do use Rivatuner to reduce judder by setting a 80fps cap[all of my games can go above 80 fps, and i have a 75hz monitor so...])
i do use Intelligent standby list cleaner too
i hope this post will not go unnoticed
 
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You only need 2-4 cores for so many games.

View attachment 350091View attachment 350093
I tried to explain this to someone on reddit, I pointed out a modern low core chip will outperform a old high core chip in many games, and he was adamant I was talking nonsense, so just eventually gave up on it. I think he is still running his coffee lake (or maybe sky lake cant remember) chip to this day probably.

Enthusiasts tend to grossly overestimate the CPU impact on games. I wager if you sit a gamer in front of a black box with a 4080, 98% wouldn't be able to tell the difference between anything 7600X/13600k and up.

I can only speak of personal experience.

On consoles I think the biggest impact this gen is not the GPU uplift's , but that they moved from jaguar to Ryzen architecture.

On my PC. Most of my games I play are lightly threaded and are a mixture of older and less technically advanced modern games, which one might assume a old CPU would be adequate.

But I have had issues on older CPUs with stutters manifesting due to CPU bottlenecks, and it also affects loading speeds as well as things like streaming performance in games. Since I moved to a newer platform, games I have tested have either completely resolved their issues or have a significant improvement. It feels like a far bigger improvement for gaming than when I went from 1080ti to RTX 3080.

Note I game at capped FPS (usually 30 or 60), so I am talking about things that many on here dont think relevant to gaming performance.

Its interesting as I ended up not buying the current market leading chip for gaming which is the 7800X3D, so my improvements probably would be even more with that chip.

We have seen some reviews of games released in the past year where even only moderately old chips had major performance issues in games.

This is true but it is also true that reviews tend to have the game and only the game running. Whereas most people will have other programs running concurrently, on likely a less than tuned OS.

AFAIK the tests are air gapped too, so there's no network traffic or variability in game/software version etc., but also no additional load from that.

The point I'm making is that singleplayer offline, clean OS testing is a little less representative of the average gamer online, background tasks, less than clean OS. But it can provide insight into what resources a game needs in a vacuum.

In my experience eight cores without SMT/HT is enough, six for games, two for everything else.

The only way to use a dual CCD chip for gaming is to pin the game on one CCD and everything else on the other. Using both for the game will result in worse performance. Similar story for P+E cores, but there's no latency penalty moving off die in that situation.

The final thing I'd like to point out is that a huge amount of people have a 60/120/165 Hz monitor, and are almost never CPU limited in the first place. Try 240/360 Hz with a non entry level GPU, and they might start appreciating the actual differences in performance between CPUs.
You can be CPU limited at low frame rates, which is the case with many of my older games.

One thing not factored in is many people just look at max frame rate and use that as a means of deciding performance, but if a game needs to load in a texture, shader or something, this will need some processing and the CPU might be albeit very briefly saturated, and this could manifest in a stutter or delayed loading (meanwhile cpu monitoring tools would typically not report close to 100% load due to polling interval and how windows schedules cpu tasks). There is also many older games that are just horrible ports, and there is a game I have played multiple times called lightning returns which will wreck CPU's manufactured several years after it was released. Not even able to sustain 30fps in places, CPU core saturated.

Your point on background processes I agree with of course. But I do think ir_cow is right for the most part, a huge amount of games will run fine with a low amount of cores, and they are mostly dependent on performance per core rather than number of cores.
 
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ir_cow

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@dgianstefani has a good point that benchmarks examples are done in a vacuum of sorts. So while a i3 to i9 of 12-14th gen may only be 15% difference in average fps across a wide number of games, this does not account for a bloated* OS.
 
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this does not account for a boated OS.
I kept trying to run the boated OS Minnow on my PC but it kept running aground after just three hours of touring
 

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Cooling 280mm ARCTIC FREEZER II idle temps 25c cpu 28c cpu diode 20c vrm 25c motherboard b stock 60$
Memory 2x 16GB Dual rank G Skill Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16-16GTZNC @3800 1.395v 16-19-16-20-38-58-1T $96
Video Card(s) Asrock RX 6950XT Oc formula Oc edition 705$ 2700 2800 boost 1090v 2476 mem 19GB/s
Storage 500 GB WD SN850 PCI-E 4.0x4 85$ pcie16x4
Display(s) Vizio M50QXM-K01 4k@120hz 2k@240hz $448
Case Cougar Panzer Max G Full Tower Tempered Glass 150$
Audio Device(s) Vzio M51a 5.1 Soundbar Dolby Atmos goodwill 45$!!!!
Power Supply Seasonic SS-1250XM2 Bought in 2013 350$ 11 y/o hasnt lost any voltage or watts
Mouse Perixx eRGO wireless Trackball 25$ 2000dpi
Keyboard Corsair K57 50$
VR HMD Dont give a damn about vr
Software win 11 pro modded by me no ai no remote connections free hehe
Benchmark Scores 8188 multi 540 single cinebench r20
is16cores not enough 4 u?
 
Low quality post by ir_cow
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