DDR5-6400 Confirmed as Sweetspot Speed of Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" Desktop Processors

[evernessince]

The bigger concern is boot times, they were attrocious when Ryzen 7000 launched mostly due to RAM training, will this be 'fixed' with 9000?

AMD fixed that awhile ago via AGESA updates.

Depends really, until benchmarks are revealed no one knows if single CCD chips will benefit from this. Zen 4 single CCD sweet spot is of course 6000/MTs, at least in gaming situations & as low a CL as possible.

It's running in 1:1 mode so 6400 should enable slightly better performance regardless of CCD count.

 

[Steevo]

You likely won't be getting 64 GB of memory to run at the sweet spot.



24 GB kits perform similarly to 16 GB kits (2x16 GB), whereas 32 GB kits perform worse, with poor timings/MT.

I already do 64GB with my 7800X3D at 6000-6400 at decent timings.

 

[bug]

Based on the character of your past comments, I would be surprised if you ever owned AMD hardware or ever intended to....

...drawbacks to AM5? Like what? The extremely long support life that Intel has literally never even approached in the past 15 years? The high probability that AMD is going to be releasing new CPUs for AM5 for years to come if AM4 is anything to go by? What exact "drawbacks" are you referring to that AM5 has and Intel's current platform doesn't have? And please only refer to DOCUMENTED issues, not anecdotal ones or generalized, ambiguous statements with no evidence such as "stability" (though if I remember correctly, intel's latest 14th gen chips have had serious and widespread stability issues without a solution that addresses the root cause...)

Overall platform cost is what kept customers at bay. DDR5 has come down in price since its early days. CPU and mobos, not so much.
Sure, you get a lot of bang for the buck, but if you're looking at $700+ just for the CPU+mobo+RAM, that's going to give pause to a lot of prospective buyers. On the other hand, there is no longer an Intel+DDR4 cheaper alternative, so maybe AMD does better this round.

 

[Dyno]

I know this is off topic somewhat, but how much memory do you need for games now and days?

I already do 64GB with my 7800X3D at 6000-6400 at decent timings.

What do you think of these? Can i bring the timings down to 28?
TeamGroup T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6400 PC5-51200 CL40 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit FF4D532G6400HC4 - White - Micro Center

 

[Event Horizon]

I know this is off topic somewhat, but how much memory do you need for games now and days?

16GB is the minimum these days. For AM5 it makes much more sense to go with a 32GB (2x16) kit due to the price and performance.

 

[Carlyle2020hs]

I´ve upgraded to 32 just for old single core games that are extremely modded:

Rimworld
Oxygen not included
Rouge Tech - needs 64 rather than 32

No other game did go over 16 Gig.

Does anyone know something recent that breaks 16 Gig?

Something badly ported i assume?

 

[Dyno]

I´ve upgraded to 32 just for old single core games that are extremely modded:

Rimworld
Oxygen not included
Rouge Tech - needs 64 rather than 32

No other game did go over 16 Gig.

Does anyone know something recent that breaks 16 Gig?

Something badly ported i assume?

How Much RAM Do Gamers Need? 16GB vs. 32GB vs. 64GB | TechSpot

 

[Makaveli]

I guess DDR5-6400 won't break the bank, so that's good.

It being 6400 and not 8000 I think will be easier for everyone's wallet.

I'm looking at 2x32 sticks myself. I like to double memory when I upgrade a platform.

You likely won't be getting 64 GB of memory to run at the sweet spot.

24 GB kits perform similarly to 16 GB kits (2x16 GB), whereas 32 GB kits perform worse, with poor timings/MT.

Is that so?

Sweet spot of DDR5 6400 is not a problem, that will help keep the prices down a bit. I'd like to know what CL speeds they recommend, with the 6000 it's CL30. Will have to wait for reviews I guess.

The bigger concern is boot times, they were attrocious when Ryzen 7000 launched mostly due to RAM training, will this be 'fixed' with 9000?

How often do you guys reboot your PC?

I maybe do 1 or 2 reboots a month.

Even my 5950X/5800X3D could do 2000/2000 MHz for memory/IF.

Silicon Lottery I've seen plenty of AM4 chips that cannot do 2000/2000

 

[Dyno]

It being 6400 and not 8000 I think will be easier for everyone's wallet.

I'm looking at 2x32 sticks myself. I like double memory when I move upgrade a platform.


Is that so?


How often do you guys reboot your PC?

I maybe do 1 or 2 reboots a month.


Silicon Lottery I've seen plenty of AM4 chips that cannot do 2000/2000

How do you even get 6400Mhz memory to do 1:1 with the AM5 9xxxX3D when it does come out? IF is 2000 and the memory is 3200 or is it 3400 for 6400MHz, how is that even possible?

Wasn't most builds around 1:28 or 28:1 for AMD last year and this year? Most people just put in their EXPO for their memory and that's it, they don't even know much about the way the system was designed.

 

[Makaveli]

How do you even get 6400Mhz memory to do 1:1 with the AM5 9xxxX3D when it does come out? IF is 2000 and the memory is 3200 or is it 3400 for 6400MHz, how is that even possible?

Wasn't most builds around 1:28 or 28:1 for AMD last year and this year? Most people just put in their EXPO for their memory and that's it, they don't even know much about the way the system was designed.

Good questions and we on this site are not most people.

Most people buy prebuilt computers and call a support line when they run into trouble.

 

[Steevo]

I know this is off topic somewhat, but how much memory do you need for games now and days?


What do you think of these? Can i bring the timings down to 28?
TeamGroup T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6400 PC5-51200 CL40 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit FF4D532G6400HC4 - White - Micro Center

I would look for reviews or be ready to return them, I gambled with my RAM since I didn't want RGB and was willing to spend the time tuning the timings and knew what chips should be on the sticks.


32GB is probably enough, but I always said that about my other builds too and wished for more later. If it's a X3D build I wouldn't worry about hitting a specific timing as it doesn't seem to change anything drastically.

 

[rv8000]

I know this is off topic somewhat, but how much memory do you need for games now and days?


What do you think of these? Can i bring the timings down to 28?
TeamGroup T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6400 PC5-51200 CL40 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit FF4D532G6400HC4 - White - Micro Center

Those are incredibly loose timings for 6400, it will be difficult to tune those on AM5. You’d be better off getting a QVL listed expo set at 6000 c30/c32 thats guaranteed hynix a-die.

C28 will likely require significantly more voltage than the expo settings at 6000/6200, 6400 c28 would require a better than average imc, 1.5ish+ vdimm and active cooling.

 

[AVATARAT]

...

Well, for starters, the only timings that the XMP/EXPO profile store are the main timings, the subtimings (which on DDR5 have more impact on performance) are worse on high capacity kits because the motherboard trains the memory and sets those timings, which are worse because more memory is harder to run.

Easy to forget how low AMD memory support is relatively, and associate what the platform can do with what the memory can do, which aren't the same thing. Available 2x16 kits go up to 8200 MT, 2x32 go up to 6800 MT max, but good luck running at more than 6800 on Intel, or 6200 MT on AMD, on a 1DPC motherboard, worse on 2DPC.

Now look up how likely you are to run 64 GB of 6400 MT CL32 vs how likely you are to run 32 GB (generally plug and play on XMP, even on Zen 4).

Lower capacity DIMMs run both faster (higher MT/lower latency) and easier than higher capacity DIMMS.

I think that there would not be a problem for Ryzen 9000 to use XMP/EXPO 6400MT/s with 2x32GB.

 

[gurusmi]

I own a Asus ProArt X670E board. According to this thread i can use a MT6000 or MT6400 Ram. But which one should i choose? That's the question i will have to answer myself.

Corsair Vengeance schwarz DIMM Kit 96GB, DDR5-6000, CL30-36-36-76, on-die ECC
Kingston FURY Renegade schwarz/silber DIMM Kit 96GB, DDR5-6400, CL32-39-39, on-die ECC

The Corsair is enlisted at the board's QVL. Both have the same ms in the subtimings.

 

[tabascosauz]

My experience ~ 6400 C32 is roughly comparable to 7400 C38, albeit the latter has significantly higher memory bandwidth. When both tuned correctly the latencies are very comparable.

Are you only using AIDA as a reference, or Intel? Or is that just XMP against XMP. That's not what I was talking about with 8000-8400. I have not seen anybody running sub-8000 show that actual memory performance can come close to a decent manual 6000 config, at those speeds.

 

[kapone32]

Overall platform cost is what kept customers at bay. DDR5 has come down in price since its early days. CPU and mobos, not so much.
Sure, you get a lot of bang for the buck, but if you're looking at $700+ just for the CPU+mobo+RAM, that's going to give pause to a lot of prospective buyers. On the other hand, there is no longer an Intel+DDR4 cheaper alternative, so maybe AMD does better this round.

If you want X670E. Or the highest end B650E. AM5 MBs are not that expensive anymore. I was at the PC store about 6 to 8 months ago and saw a B550 Tuf Board that had a final sale label on it. I even downloaded and installed the BIOS for the B550. It was only when I looked up the A520 Tuf that I realized that I was not missing a 2nd M2 I in fact had that board. The reason why I mention that is that if I knew it was a A520 I probably would not have bought it but I was convinced that it was B550. What I mean by that is in all honesty if you just want to build a PC for Gaming A620 should be fine as long as you can mitigate the VRM deficiencies in some of those boards.

 

[Minus Infinity]

What happened to the 2400MT/s Infinity fabric clock?

How Much RAM Do Gamers Need? 16GB vs. 32GB vs. 64GB | TechSpot

Where's the how much RAM do productivity users need. Who gives a toss about gamers. I think anyone that doesn't have 32GB already is insane. It's so cheap why skimp. I'll bet we have clowns with 4090 and 7800X3D/14900K, X670E/Z790 and then skimp on the extra $50 for 16GB more of memory.

I'm already on 64GB just for photo/video/simulation reasons, and it made a huge improvement over 32GB. Now I want more than 16GB in my gpu as AI software I use leverage gpu.

 

[Dyno]

Those are incredibly loose timings for 6400, it will be difficult to tune those on AM5. You’d be better off getting a QVL listed expo set at 6000 c30/c32 thats guaranteed hynix a-die.

C28 will likely require significantly more voltage than the expo settings at 6000/6200, 6400 c28 would require a better than average imc, 1.5ish+ vdimm and active cooling.

Do i need to worry about loose timings even with any of the new X3D chips? I'm most likely going to buy a X650E board.

 

[JWNoctis]

Overall platform cost is what kept customers at bay. DDR5 has come down in price since its early days. CPU and mobos, not so much.
Sure, you get a lot of bang for the buck, but if you're looking at $700+ just for the CPU+mobo+RAM, that's going to give pause to a lot of prospective buyers. On the other hand, there is no longer an Intel+DDR4 cheaper alternative, so maybe AMD does better this round.

I'd argue that PC component market has already been considerably gentrified. It appears to me that people just needing something that works were pushed to buy a budget laptop, or entirely go mobile. Mostly gone is the age of cheap Celerons and Durons and their successors, and the real entry level is now essentially mid-range premium, 12-14th gen Core i3, Zen3/4 Ryzen 5, a $100+ mATX motherboard, 16GB of RAM, and maybe an RTX 3050/RX 6500 XT, a cheap M.2 SSD, a plain case, and a reasonable power supply, et cetera.

Not really desirable, but that's the way things have moved.

Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" should be able to run DDR5-6400 with a 1:1 ratio between the MCLK and FCLK domains.

Does that mean a 3200MHz IF or did I read it wrong? That would be big, if unlikely-sounding.

 

[Launcestonian]

AMD fixed that awhile ago via AGESA updates.



It's running in 1:1 mode so 6400 should enable slightly better performance regardless of CCD count.

I should have emphasized perceptible difference in fps, I mean sure one may get extra 1 -2 fps, but at what cost with extra volts & thermals?

 

[fevgatos]

Based on the character of your past comments, I would be surprised if you ever owned AMD hardware or ever intended to....

...drawbacks to AM5? Like what? The extremely long support life that Intel has literally never even approached in the past 15 years? The high probability that AMD is going to be releasing new CPUs for AM5 for years to come if AM4 is anything to go by? What exact "drawbacks" are you referring to that AM5 has and Intel's current platform doesn't have? And please only refer to DOCUMENTED issues, not anecdotal ones or generalized, ambiguous statements with no evidence such as "stability" (though if I remember correctly, intel's latest 14th gen chips have had serious and widespread stability issues without a solution that addresses the root cause...)

"...with Intel beating the standard Zen 5 6 and 8..."

I might be misreading here, but are you actually making the claim that Intel has already "beat" the Zen 5 six and 8 core CPUs that literally haven't been released yet and nobody has reviewed, and that zintel has done this with CPUs it hasn't released and nobody has reviewed yet? Any clarification would be much appreciated.

1) High idle -low load power draw. Like really high.

2) If - as you said - the am4 support is anything to go by, oh boy. An AM5 owner will need to pray that Intel releases some great products like alderlake, cause if they don't, you kiss your upgradability goodbye. Need I remind you older mobos didn't get support for zen 3 until 2 years after zen 3 was released, and that was because of how competitive alderlake was. By the time I actually got support for zen 3 on my b350 for zen 3 (may of 2022, lol) I had already moved to a new platform. If we get the same crap with AM5, no thanks. Like really, no, thanks.

 

[gurusmi]

2) If - as you said - the am4 support is anything to go by, oh boy. An AM5 owner will need to pray that Intel releases some great products like alderlake, cause if they don't, you kiss your upgradability goodbye. Need I remind you older mobos didn't get support for zen 3 until 2 years after zen 3 was released, and that was because of how competitive alderlake was. By the time I actually got support for zen 3 on my b350 for zen 3 (may of 2022, lol) I had already moved to a new platform. If we get the same crap with AM5, no thanks. Like really, no, thanks.

The last BIOS update on my Gugabyte X570 Master V1.0 has been this year, March 26th. I still run a Ryzen 3800X on that board. Since over four years. I don't care about new biosses as the one i installed works fine for me. I also don't care what Intel does. How the new Alder Lake will be. I see that intel has a lot of issues with their performance because of too much Power and degrading. To be honest. I couldn't say how the Intel CPU's perform with the new power plans. I also build a rig utilitizing AM5. And i think if i should buy a 990x or a 7950x. I wanna own a long term stable system. I don't want to be afraid about the degration of the Intel CPU. So: Why should i hope for a good performing Intel CPU?

Edit:
I just have seen that my X570 board has a new Beta BIOS to update to AMD AGESA V2 1.2.0.C (published today)

 

[stimpy88]

Based on the character of your past comments, I would be surprised if you ever owned AMD hardware or ever intended to....

...drawbacks to AM5? Like what? The extremely long support life that Intel has literally never even approached in the past 15 years? The high probability that AMD is going to be releasing new CPUs for AM5 for years to come if AM4 is anything to go by? What exact "drawbacks" are you referring to that AM5 has and Intel's current platform doesn't have? And please only refer to DOCUMENTED issues, not anecdotal ones or generalized, ambiguous statements with no evidence such as "stability" (though if I remember correctly, intel's latest 14th gen chips have had serious and widespread stability issues without a solution that addresses the root cause...)

"...with Intel beating the standard Zen 5 6 and 8..."

I might be misreading here, but are you actually making the claim that Intel has already "beat" the Zen 5 six and 8 core CPUs that literally haven't been released yet and nobody has reviewed, and that zintel has done this with CPUs it hasn't released and nobody has reviewed yet? Any clarification would be much appreciated.

I'm typing to you from an 5950x dude. Why is it so hard to not be a fanboi these days? I don't eat garbage just because it has a certain logo on it. But you do you.

I see real issues with the AM5 platform, and the lack of innovation in the CPUs is letting Intel catch them up and even overtake AMD now. I don't like that, I love what AMD did with AM4 and Zen 3, but Zen 4 was a huge disappointment, AM5 is a huge disappointment, and Zen 5 looks more of the same with its awful memory controller and lack of innovations. AMD need to dump this awful 3D cache money grab. Its greedy and there is no longer an excuse to have 2 different ranges of high-end CPU's with a bolted-on fix for their awful memory controller, which will soon be delivering half the bandwidth of Intel parts and offering much higher latency.

You need to stop drinking the AMD koolaid and see how behind they are becoming in certain areas. It was insane they didn't make USB4 ubiquitous on AM5, it was already overpriced enough, and now you need a new 8x0 MB. Memory support is a joke, bootup times are a joke although some have stated it has been fixed to a certain degree.

AMD fanbois are the absolute worst. Do your own research into the upcoming Intel chips and their IPC gains, and upcoming support for DDR5 10000+ next year.

 

[kapone32]

I'm typing to you from an 5950x dude. Why is is so hard to not be a fanboi like you these days? I don't eat garbage just because it has a certain logo on it.

I see real issues with the AM5 platform, and the lack of innovation in the CPUs is letting Intel catch them up and even overtake AMD now. I don't like that, I love what AMD did with AM4 and Zen 3, but Zen 4 was a huge disappointment, AM5 is a huge disappointment, and Zen 5 looks more of the same with it's awful memory controller and lack of innovations. AMD need to dump this awful 3D cache money grab. It greedy and there is no longer an excuse to have 2 different ranges of high-end CPU's with a bolted-on fix for their awful memory controller, which will soon be delivering half the bandwidth of Intel parts, and offering much higher latency.

You need to stop drinking the AMD koolaid and see how behind they are becoming. It was insane they didn't make USB4 ubiquitous on AM5, it was already overpriced enough. Memory support is a joke, bootup times are a joke. AMD fanbois are the absolute worst. Do your own research into the upcoming Intel chips and their IPC gains, and upcoming support for DDR5 10000+ next year.

Is AM5 really as bad as you claim? You don't understand that X3D mitigates RAM speed? Was the 1700x good at memory above 2933? Was the 2600x able to do over 3600? Was the 5950x not capable of 4000 mhz? Did the fact that at that time Intel 12-14th Gen supported up to 7000 make any real tangible difference? You don't even have to buy X3D.

If you want USB4 that is your choice but objectively X670E boards are more flexible than X870E boards. This USB4 narrative is hard for me to understand but I guess you need it on X870 as you will be missing 1 or 2 M2 slots on the board for storage. My X670E board already has 3 USB C slots on the rear and 1 header connected to the case front panel USB C. As I understand it there was more than AMD not wanting to support USB4 on AM5 but some partners not playing fairly.

Boot times: Non issue, CPUs receive updates as they age to mitigate that, for some context long boot also has to do with which RAM profile you choose as the first Expo profile will only train RAM on initial boot, while the 2nd profile will train the memory on every single boot. They might even have fixed that though.

Intel IPC Gains, while at Computex it looked so foolish that we could see the new Intel MBs but cannot "see" them. I like the increase in PCIe lanes on the new Intel chips but I like more that I will be able to buy whatever CPU I want for CPU releases until 2027 for AM5. That is good enough for me. Maybe then we may need an upgrade. So even if it is 8% faster in IPC than my 7000 chip, it won't be enough for me to change platforms.

Summarily AM5 is faster in every way than AM4 and AM4 should give anyone who has used it the confidence to know AMD knows what they are doing. You don't have to buy it if you don't want anyway but to attack people because they like it is ignorant if all you are saying is the narrative. We don't even have reviews yet of the latest chips to guage where AMD is at anyway.

 

[fevgatos]

I'm typing to you from an 5950x dude. Why is it so hard to not be a fanboi these days? I don't eat garbage just because it has a certain logo on it. But you do you.

I see real issues with the AM5 platform, and the lack of innovation in the CPUs is letting Intel catch them up and even overtake AMD now. I don't like that, I love what AMD did with AM4 and Zen 3, but Zen 4 was a huge disappointment, AM5 is a huge disappointment, and Zen 5 looks more of the same with its awful memory controller and lack of innovations. AMD need to dump this awful 3D cache money grab. Its greedy and there is no longer an excuse to have 2 different ranges of high-end CPU's with a bolted-on fix for their awful memory controller, which will soon be delivering half the bandwidth of Intel parts and offering much higher latency.

You need to stop drinking the AMD koolaid and see how behind they are becoming in certain areas. It was insane they didn't make USB4 ubiquitous on AM5, it was already overpriced enough, and now you need a new 8x0 MB. Memory support is a joke, bootup times are a joke although some have stated it has been fixed to a certain degree.

AMD fanbois are the absolute worst. Do your own research into the upcoming Intel chips and their IPC gains, and upcoming support for DDR5 10000+ next year.

I don't agree with the 3d cache point. It's the 3d cache that allows them to be competitive in games, without it things are rough. Not only intel cpus are faster in games, they are also faster while consuming less powers.

Or do you mean amd should completely stop releasing non x3d chips? That would have a huge impact on their margins I think. Ain't happening.