Alderon Games claims that substantial numbers of Intel 13th Gen and 14th Gen chips are defective

[Vya Domus]

They are well cooled ?..! perhaps it changes the finality, users with airflow "or" letting the CPU go at higher temp have higher risk ?

The last generations of CPUs have been furnaces regardless, who knows what's really happing, Intel probably doesn't know exactly what's happening either, these manufacturing level defects are very insidious and hard to pinpoint.

 

[Shrek]

Intel says it has found the issue causing 13th and 14th Gen CPUs to crash (msn.com)

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Yeah but that's the thing, extremes levels, how overvolted could these chips have been ? I doubt an extra 20mv would make any real difference, a lot of people on here overlock their CPUs 24/7, chip degradation is very rare.

I think there is still a manufacturing defect, made much worse by every increase in voltage, accelerating whatever it is that's wrong.

Yes indeed. These chips are on a node Intel has been wrestling with for years, and they likely pushed it too far. Their 14nm node was so mature that those products could handle these extreme tolerances. New node, new rules.

 

[phanbuey]

i mean it would makes sense if you're pumping 1.5+ v through 1-2 cores every time a single thread comes on it could cause damage.

New node or not - 14nm++++ wouldn't love 1.5v either. Makes sense why the failure rates are so much lower as you go down the stack -- still high though.

 

[Klemc]

“Our analysis of returned processors...

Oh they needed users proc more than one year later to find abbout.... mmmh, they are fun.

 

[iameatingjam]

Intel says it has found the issue causing 13th and 14th Gen CPUs to crash (msn.com)

Thats a relief, if it really is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. At this point I don't even care if I lose a little performance.

Also its pretty amazing how Steve can get pretty much any company no matter how big to pay attention to what he's saying. Though I suppose it was a group effort.

 

[R0H1T]

Steve can get pretty much any company no matter how big to pay attention

JHH says hi

Or even Apple for that matter, although I don't remember Steve doing any Mac related content in recent years if at all? Intel's big clients forced them to make this statement & some of those guys traded in probably billions of $$$ of HFT daily ~ you definitely don't wanna mess with them!

 

[ir_cow]

I'm going into conspiracy now. Please don't resuscitate.

Which is easier for Intel:
A) Microcode is wrong and burning up CPUs
B) manufacturing defect that would account for millions of CPUs recalled.

Of course it is a "Microcode" issue

 

[R0H1T]

Regardless of what the real issue is I'd be surprised if there isn't a class action lawsuit against them.

 

[InVasMani]

Remains to be seen even with a microcode update how much damage has already been done to the lifespan of the chips involved.

 

[R0H1T]

Well Intel's also lucky these chips aren't used much in your average hospital or critical research otherwise they'd have bigger things to worry about.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers

Honestly I don't really care what the issue is or who's fault it is at the end of the day this is all I really wanted to hear from intel..... Shame it took so long and some pressure from media for them to finally just say what they should have said months ago. Now just make good on this promise.

I get that a company wants to know for sure they actually have a fix before saying anything and saying something wrong could hurt the bottom line but damn a simple we are looking into these reports and taking this serious we stand by the quality of our products or something wouldn't have killed them.

I'm going into conspiracy now. Please don't resuscitate.

Which is easier for Intel:
A) Microcode is wrong and burning up CPUs
B) manufacturing defect that would account for millions of CPUs recalled.

Of course it is a "Microcode" issue

Yeah this is 100% the fix I figured was coming. I still have a lot of questions I would love to ask intel not that they would actually answer them but as long as they make good on what was said above and not say the cpu is only intended to be run at 125w not the 250w everyone tested them at that was default I'm good. Now if they start making excuse after excuse it will be 2-3 generations of them doing better before I feel ok buying one of their processors.

I feel bad for reviewers, what do they say. "these processors are fast but use them at your own risk of degradation" smh. We probably won't know for at least 6 months maybe longer if the fix actually worked.

Maybe he has already, but I would love to know @W1zzard thoughts on all this he has to review them and objectively recommend or not recommend them at the same time it's probably best he separate himself from this as much as possible but I can see the comment sections now on any intel product he recommends which isn't a thing a reviewer should even have to consider.

 

[evernessince]

I'm going into conspiracy now. Please don't resuscitate.

Which is easier for Intel:
A) Microcode is wrong and burning up CPUs
B) manufacturing defect that would account for millions of CPUs recalled.

Of course it is a "Microcode" issue

A Micro-code issue sounds a lot less harmful to investor ears as well. Anything regarding manufacturing defect and they'd have a conniption.

I'm waiting for the GN investigation and failure analysis. It's nice to have a 3rd party validate Intel's claims.

Yeah this is 100% the fix I figured was coming. I still have a lot of questions

Yes, specifically:

How will Intel remedy customers for the potential damaged caused by the claimed micro-code bug?
Will there be an outreach campaign to notify all customers potentially affected?
Given the permanent damage this bug causes, who qualifies for a replacement / refund? (as in everyone or just those who can demonstrate they are having issues)
What are the product level implication for the fix to this bug? Specifically, how will it impact performance and processor behavior?
What is Intel's proposed solution to it's crashing issue on laptops given Intel has itself claimed that laptops are crashing due to other reasons at an elevated rate? (Intel's press release made it appear to me they were pointing fingers elsewhere again with this one)

 

[Fouquin]

I'm going into conspiracy now. Please don't resuscitate.

Which is easier for Intel:
A) Microcode is wrong and burning up CPUs
B) manufacturing defect that would account for millions of CPUs recalled.

Of course it is a "Microcode" issue

In correspondence on Reddit by Lex H at Intel:

So that you don't have to hunt down the answer -> Questions about manufacturing or Via Oxidation as reported by Tech outlets:

Short answer: We can confirm there was a via Oxidation manufacturing issue (addressed back in 2023) but it is not related to the instability issue.

Long answer: We can confirm that the via Oxidation manufacturing issue affected some early Intel Core 13th Gen desktop processors. However, the issue was root caused and addressed with manufacturing improvements and screens in 2023. We have also looked at it from the instability reports on Intel Core 13th Gen desktop processors and the analysis to-date has determined that only a small number of instability reports can be connected to the manufacturing issue.

And in regards to affected CPUs currently in use:

[...] the microcode patch will not repair processors already experiencing crashes, but it is expected to prevent issues on processors that aren't currently impacted by the issue. For now, it is unclear if CPUs exposed to excessive voltage have suffered from invisible degradation or damage that hasn't resulted in crashes yet but could lead to errors or crashes in the future.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'm going into conspiracy now. Please don't resuscitate.

Which is easier for Intel:
A) Microcode is wrong and burning up CPUs
B) manufacturing defect that would account for millions of CPUs recalled.

Of course it is a "Microcode" issue

Yeah, I tend to agree. Hopefully Bartlett comes about.

 

[sLowEnd]

It'd be a damn shame if you own an EVGA board, or a board that's been abandoned by the manufacturer (e.g. Like this Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master, which hasn't had an update since Dec 2023)

 

[Event Horizon]

It'd be a damn shame if you own an EVGA board, or a board that's been abandoned by the manufacturer (e.g. Like this Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master, which hasn't had an update since Dec 2023)

I think that's normal? All my Intel boards got abandoned in less than 2.5 years. I've never seen an Intel board get more than 3 years of support. If any manufacturer goes beyond that I would happily pick them for my next purchase.

 

[sLowEnd]

I think that's normal? All my Intel boards got abandoned in less than 2.5 years. I've never seen an Intel board get more than 3 years of support. If any manufacturer goes beyond that I would happily pick them for my next purchase.

*shrug*

My Z690 board had an update a few months ago for wider APO support

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-Z690-FORCE-WIFI/support

 

[eidairaman1]

Im wondering if locking the clocks and feeding stable voltage solves the issues or if it is actually a corrosion issue inside the CPU. Surprised this hasn't gone more mainstream yet.

Corrosion, tells me the dies were contaminated

Intel finally announces a solution for CPU crashing and instability problems — claims elevated voltages are the root cause; patch coming by mid-August [Updated]

Patch is on the way.

www.tomshardware.com

Instead of that they should give user choice to Return the defective stepping for the fixed model

 

[Taraquin]

I have talked to and read about several people who undervolted (by 50-150mv) their i7 or i9 13/14th gen from day 1 and has used good coolers and still get degradation/instability after a few months. I don't think microcode will fix the issue, just postpone it...

I always UV my CPUs. I have had i7 6700HQ for 3 years, no degradation, same UV as day one. My Ryzen 3600 and 5600X has been stable at same UV for several years. No sign of degradation.

 

[Ferrum Master]

One thing is sure, I sold my Intel stock, gained from it, now let's wait to drop it further and rebuy it... a simple market move...

 

[Taraquin]

Interesting that Intel admits there was an oxidation issue on 2022 and some early 2023 13th gens, but they claim only a few of them conyribute to the instability problem.

 

[JustBenching]

Not an engineer or an expert but it seems very sus. Elevated voltages doesn't cause crashes, the degradation from those elevated voltages does. So if the CPU is degraded, how would a microcode fix this?

At least with amd's handgrenades the issue was a lot more obvious, they just cooked themselves in order to compete with intel. The intel issue doesn't look like an overvoltage issue to me but who knows...

 

[Taraquin]

Not an engineer or an expert but it seems very sus. Elevated voltages doesn't cause crashes, the degradation from those elevated voltages does. So if the CPU is degraded, how would a microcode fix this?

At least with amd's handgrenades the issue was a lot more obvious, they just cooked themselves in order to compete with intel. The intel issue doesn't look like an overvoltage issue to me but who knows...

I agree. I think it is more of a thermal issue. Higher voltages cause higher temps, high temps combined with high voltages increases degredation. Intel could have improved this by setting the temp throttle lower. 115C is insanely high. Maybe much of the degradation would stop if they set a 90C limit like in the old days?

 

[JustBenching]

I agree. I think it is more of a thermal issue. Higher voltages cause higher temps, high temps combined with high voltages increases degredation. Intel could have improved this by setting the temp throttle lower. 115C is insanely high. Maybe much of the degradation would stop if they set a 90C limit like in the old days?

The temp limit is at 100c