Is alc 897/892 much worse than s1200a ?

[matpc]

Hello

i had a previous board with s1200a and got one am5 with alc 897/892 from msi

I´m wondering , would i feel the difference ? i´m not audiophile or anything extreme

I have a h2232d headset ( yes it is very entry / budget )

i know i probably won´t feel difference but i just wanted to assure since the msi board has superior vrm than asus

thanks

 

[Apocalypsee]

Don't worry about it, you won't notice much, if any, difference between the onboard sound nowadays.

 

[chrcoluk]

Some people arent so sensitive to differences so they cant tell, I can tell you my ALC892 is noticeable compared to discrete sound, my old board had ALC1220 on it, I could test it with headphones.

For me its less noticeable in speakers vs my headphones.

 

[Bill_Bright]

These audio discussions always amaze and amuse me. I am not trying to be condescending or arrogant or anything like that. But audiophile quality electronics was my first love in consumer electronics - going back to the early 1970s. But note I was just an enlisted man in the USAF for 24 years. In other words, never "flush" with cash. But note just the left-front speaker in my current stereo system (part of my surround sound home theater system) would cost over $1400 in today's dollars. And understand that is not a powered speaker. Preamps and amps are separate. So is the right-front speaker.

Most 2.1 computer speaker systems today cost well under $300 and that is for the left speaker, right speaker and subwoofer too. AND that includes all the electronics (preamps and final amps) to drive those speakers.

Understand, in terms of high end audio, that $1400 for just one speaker is a fortune for me, but in reality, is chump change! So for sure, I am not bragging. I am just trying to put expectations back closer to reality.

Some people arent so sensitive to differences so they cant tell

This is so true. And I note age plays a HUGE role in this. It is just a fact of life that our (we humans) hearing begins to degrade between 18 and 40 years of age, then keeps going down hill from there.

That does NOT mean we older people enjoy music less. We are still able to discern quality sound from noise and distortion - just not at the highest (and some times lowest) frequencies and SPLs (sound pressure levels or loudness).

For me its less noticeable in speakers vs my headphones.

Which clearly suggests your headphones reproduce audio of a higher quality than your speakers - a testament to headphone and other tiny speaker technologies of today.

How we listen plays a HUGE factor is how we enjoy the audio. Listening to the "soundtrack" while we play a game or watch a movie is WAY DIFFERENT to just listening to music. And listening to music as "background" music while doing other computer tasks is WAY DIFFERENT again.

I watched the original Top Gun the other day. I assure you, listening to Danger Zone by Kenny Loggins while watching the movie was amazing. But just listening to Danger Zone, eyes closed and concentrating on the projected soundstage was even more amazing.

I splurged and have a nice $400 THX certified surround sound system on this computer. And it does sound great when listening to hi-res audio tunes while using the computer for things like posting posts in forums. And they are great for gaming soundtracks. But for entertainment watching movies, or serious listening, no way.

I must also point out that computer speaker systems (and most headphones) do NOT meet audiophile audio reproduction standards. That is, they do NOT have a "flat" frequency response across their entire range and that is by design. They tend to emphasize LFEs (low frequency events) to make explosions, for example, sound more... ...explosive! Or they boost the treble (high frequencies) to make those frequency sound more bright. These are not criticisms, just observations. If the listeners like what they hear, then who am I to say what's right? Now the artists and sound engineers who made the original recordings might have something to say about the "faithfulness" of the reproduced sound, but they are not in this discussion today.

Bottom line - there are too many variables for any of us to say what is best (or good enough) for you. What is satisfactory for us as individuals is very much subjective. It is also very much dependent on the speakers (and electronics), the listening habits of the user, room acoustics, and of course, the sound source itself.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The codec itself is rarely the problem - it's the associated circuitry. Motherboards just do not have the real estate available for a proper audio circuit, and most of them only have an analog output that are at best capable of driving high-sensitivity devices like everyday use IEMs.

If you hooked up an early generation Realtek HD Audio codec such as the ALC898 hooked up to a proper DAC setup with a high-quality chip, OP-amp, capacitors, etc. it will sound miles ahead of what you'd get with the very latest generation ALC4080 or ALC4082 codec from the latest ASUS ROG Maximus boards hooked up to the small capacitors and budget DAC you'll find on your average low-cost motherboard.

Really, I have one of the most extreme motherboards you can buy today - and its integrated sound solution is nothing short of garbage compared to the EVGA Nu Audio I had in here before I had to replace my old motherboard - unfortunately, it doesn't fit on my new case. This isn't audiophile talk either - far from it, but the fact remains cheap motherboard equals cheap sound design which equals shit audio, it just matters less if you have $5 earplugs like all the people who claim mp3 is just fine in plain 2024... and the situation will not change even if you splurge for an $800-level motherboard. Audio just isn't their forte.

Solution: buy a relatively inexpensive USB DAC+amp combo solution or something like a Sound Blaster Z if you prefer internal audio, problem solved.

 

[Deleted member 229121]

The codec itself is rarely the problem - it's the associated circuitry. Motherboards just do not have the real estate available for a proper audio circuit, and most of them only have an analog output that are at best capable of driving high-sensitivity devices like everyday use IEMs.

If you hooked up an early generation Realtek HD Audio codec such as the ALC898 hooked up to a proper DAC setup with a high-quality chip, OP-amp, capacitors, etc. it will sound miles ahead of what you'd get with the very latest generation ALC4080 or ALC4082 codec from the latest ASUS ROG Maximus boards hooked up to the small capacitors and budget DAC you'll find on your average low-cost motherboard.

Really, I have one of the most extreme motherboards you can buy today - and its integrated sound solution is nothing short of garbage compared to the EVGA Nu Audio I had in here before I had to replace my old motherboard - unfortunately, it doesn't fit on my new case. This isn't audiophile talk either - far from it, but the fact remains cheap motherboard equals cheap sound design which equals shit audio, it just matters less if you have $5 earplugs like all the people who claim mp3 is just fine in plain 2024... and the situation will not change even if you splurge for an $800-level motherboard. Audio just isn't their forte.

Solution: buy a relatively inexpensive USB DAC+amp combo solution or something like a Sound Blaster Z if you prefer internal audio, problem solved.

This. Probably won't notice a difference as said, but if you want to improve your audio pickup a DAC.

You don't need to spend a ton of money on one to get a significant improvement from onboard.
An external solution won't require drivers either as with an internal card, just plug it in and voila - better sound.

 

[bitsandboots]

I asked a similar question a few years ago and found the answer is the $10 apple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter has a DAC embedded which is surprisingly good, like competing with $100-$200 DACs good.
From that point on, my answer to the question of "what onboard sound card is best" is to buy the $10 adapter and forget about it.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I asked a similar question a few years ago and found the answer is the $10 apple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter has a DAC embedded which is surprisingly good, like competing with $100-$200 DACs good.
From that point on, my answer to the question of "what onboard sound card is best" is to buy the $10 adapter and forget about it.

I haven't had the chance yet, but next time I'm at the mall I'm 100% dropping by the Apple Store and buying one of those dongles - I expect they'll work well with my KZ ZSX IEMs, but I don't think they'll make my Sony studio cans very happy. I have the Lightning to 3.5mm dongle and have tried it with my iPhone Xs Max and my iPhone 6s Plus (which has a native 3.5 plug, doubles for an interesting comparison) - it is the case with that particular converter. (It basically sounds the exact same as the 6s Plus' jack output).

 

[Knight47]

I can notice the difference and i'm not an audiophile either, but yeah implementation plays a big role. Imho most people who claim they are audiophile are at least half deaf.

 

[AleXXX666]

Hello

i had a previous board with s1200a and got one am5 with alc 897/892 from msi

I´m wondering , would i feel the difference ? i´m not audiophile or anything extreme

I have a h2232d headset ( yes it is very entry / budget )

i know i probably won´t feel difference but i just wanted to assure since the msi board has superior vrm than asus

thanks

not MUCH. Get additional pci-e sound card from asus/creative they all better than every integrated lol.

 

[matpc]

iirc i had a tuf b360m with 887 audio chip and i honestly could not feel any difference going to s1200a ( used the same headsets )

alc887 is worse than 892 right ? or pretty much equivalent considering the numbers

 

[Bill_Bright]

Imho most people who claim they are audiophile are at least half deaf.

This is true but even someone with poor hearing, if they know what to listen for, can definitely hear the difference between distorted sound and audiophile quality reproduced sound. They just typically cannot hear certain frequencies as well, most commonly at the higher end of the spectrum.

 

[Dorek]

I did notice some clearer sound and no cracks and pops anymore.

 

[matpc]

my headset is also 15ohms , is it enough to make a difference in the audio chips?

 

[#22]

No much sense to ask title question due to whole thing depending on few factors starting with your own hearing.

If you won't be satisfied with built-in audio, you'll get yourself a soundcard. One meeting your likings and what's even better, usable with other devices. Btw buying each time more expensive board only to get better audio is just thing not to do - one of the basic mistakes of pc building.

 

[matpc]

No much sense to ask title question due to whole thing depending on few factors starting with your own hearing.

If you won't be satisfied with built-in audio, you'll get yourself a soundcard. One meeting your likings and what's even better, usable with other devices. Btw buying each time more expensive board only to get better audio is just thing not to do - one of the basic mistakes of pc building.

this is what it gets me , despite asus having the better audio chip , msi has a better board overall ( better vrm )

 

[#22]

this is what it gets me , despite asus having the better audio chip , msi has a better board overall ( better vrm )

So save yourself caring about built-in audio. With mobos it's about avoiding bottom of the barrel ones, because they like to die the most, but then aiming cheapest possible one meeting your expectations, optionally having possibly modern features which may come in handy (for you or tempt next owner) and being able to handle VRM wise whatever CPU compatible - not strongest and coolest, but to handle or make up potentially shitty airflow or power hungry GPU cooking things above. Such board will give you what you want, but thanks to being possibly cheap in the future will sell for higher percent of it's original price. E.g. I used Z390 Extreme 4 for four years and then sold it for half the money I originally paid inflation included. If it was more premium Taichi, I wouldn't sell it for much more, because there're rather no buyers for few years old premium (and costing so) boards.

 

[Rafael.luc]

These audio discussions always amaze and amuse me. I am not trying to be condescending or arrogant or anything like that. But audiophile quality electronics was my first love in consumer electronics - going back to the early 1970s. But note I was just an enlisted man in the USAF for 24 years. In other words, never "flush" with cash. But note just the left-front speaker in my current stereo system (part of my surround sound home theater system) would cost over $1400 in today's dollars. And understand that is not a powered speaker. Preamps and amps are separate. So is the right-front speaker.

I also have a background in electronics and an interest in audio.I designed amplifiers, but that's a thing of the past.

DACs in the beginning (1980) were good, but the digital filter was bad, hence the quality complaints for those who listened to analog, whether from vinyl or reel-to-reel recorders. Obviously, the $15K reel-to-reel recorders were superior to the digital ones of the time. Digital filters improved a lot between the 1990s and 2000s. I have a Denon DCD-600 CD player (20 Bits).

From then on, Philips stopped manufacturing DACs and the industry adopted 1 bit stream DACs , which are cheaper to manufacture than 16, 18 and 20-Bit R2R DACs. Most of these DACs have compressed sound similar to FM radio (analog compression), the difference is so big that I have noticed it in speakers built into a TV, I would put all these "modern" DACs in one same basket.

Latest improvements occurred with Wolfson DACs which is hybrid: 1 bit stream + R2R (6 bits), I've already heard this one, very detailed like the R2R but a little shrill.
Another even better DAC would be the SABRE with much higher bit-stream frequencies. I haven't listened to it or compared it yet, but I should do so in the near future.

Most motherboards, the onboard sound has the DAC in direct output without an amplifier (opamp), you may have problems with cables and low impedance loads (headphones). SNR is poor - 60 dB. ( 16 Bits = - 90 dB)

A good sound card doesn't cost much:

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/sound-cards/gaming/xonar-ae/

https://us.creative.com/p/archived-products/sound-blasterx-ae-5

Low Cost (direct output but good DAC)

https://hifimediy.com/product/sabre-dac-uae23/

 

[chr0nos]

just try the apple dongle vs onboard, and test for yourself

Also if u want to test headphones tuned to a more "neutral" signature use AutoEq

AutoEq

Automatic headphone equalization

autoeq.app

 

[ir_cow]

ALC892 is noticably worse in sound quality. But because it's on budget motherboards. I haven't seen one with the audio isolated on the motherboard. That is a big factor too. ALC892 buzzes because of that.

 

[matpc]

ALC892 is noticably worse in sound quality. But because it's on budget motherboards. I haven't seen one with the audio isolated on the motherboard. That is a big factor too. ALC892 buzzes because of that.

i´m sorry but my alc 892 is guaranteed to pop / crackle and buzz ? i plan to use a h2232d headset

 

[Rafael.luc]

ALC892 is noticably worse in sound quality. But because it's on budget motherboards. I haven't seen one with the audio isolated on the motherboard. That is a big factor too. ALC892 buzzes because of that.

Cheap is a careless output with distortion and noise

I have already found Wolfson DAC in cheap DVD-player.
I have a Creative EMU-0404 card (SNR -110 dB) that uses an AKM DAC, It's not good for listening to music because of the DAC.

 

[kapone32]

With 892 you bought a sound card. With 1220 you don't need to. The dynamic range of 1220 and up is the difference and stronger signal.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I agree a decent sound card will not set you back much. But if sound quality is a priority, then I recommend "investing" in a better motherboard next time. The higher end motherboards tend to have better integrated sound. But still, don't put your expectations too high - not when $20,000 for a decent home theater sound system is NOT even considered "high end" these day.

 

[matpc]

I agree a decent sound card will not set you back much. But if sound quality is a priority, then I recommend "investing" in a better motherboard next time. The higher end motherboards tend to have better integrated sound. But still, don't put your expectations too high - not when $20,000 for a decent home theater sound system is NOT even considered "high end" these day.

i´ve used a alc887 before with the same headset and could not find any improvement going to s1200a

yes , it is probably due to my headset but i don´t think i will also feel any difference with the 892/897 either