Why everyone say Zen 5 is bad ?

[Zach_01]

Hmh. It might be that AMD was in a bit of a rush to get these out the door right near the end, especially with the misprint whoopsie and the scattered performance characteristics. By all means, it could be that over time and with a lot of tweaking these CPUs will begin to form more of a gap with Zen 4. Fingers crossed that the Zen 5 go-around (I doubt they'll call it Ryzen 10k, maybe A-100 or something) comes with an updated IOD along with the whole iGPU thing they do.

Perhaps windows and some compilers may need upgrade and tuning for them too...
Yeah I really hope that Zen6 will bring something significant better on the AM5, or else it will be a platform with bitter taste.

 

[Ruru]

Doesn't the 9700X give you 7700X performance at 7700 efficiency?

People waited for a Zen3 -> Zen3 X3D type of an uplift so they say that Zen5 sucks.

Hardware these days uses hella lot of power so when even once a company releases something efficient, then it's a bad thing

 

[AusWolf]

Hardware these days uses hella lot of power so when even once a company releases something efficient, then it's a bad thing

That's not the case here. The 7700 non-X was widely celebrated for its efficiency. The 9700X offers nothing on top of it except for faster AVX-512 which 99% of users don't need, and is more expensive. There's nothing for me to celebrate here, that's all.

 

[igormp]

Perhaps windows and some compilers may need upgrade and tuning for them too...
Yeah I really hope that Zen6 will bring something significant better on the AM5, or else it will be a platform with bitter taste.

May also be an issue with Windows' scheduler, given how better those perform on Linux.

For productivity those are really amazing CPUs, and really give a glimpse on how amazing Epyc Turin is going to be (an even more efficient since it's going to be on N3 instead of N4).

 

[igormp]

The 9700X offers nothing on top of it except for faster AVX-512 which 99% of users don't need

I know this won't relate at all to games (so most users here won't care still), but the 9950x with AVX-512 OFF is able to beat the 7950x with AVX-512 enabled in some tests:

Quantifying The AVX-512 Performance Impact With AMD Zen 5 - Ryzen 9 9950X Benchmarks Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

For some some other tests, both are practically equal with AVX-512 off, which just shows how the improvements for SSE were nil (which is widely used in games), as already shown by the y-cruncher creator:

Zen 5 is a great pick for productivity if one is not on AM5 already (otherwise it only makes sense for really specific scenarios), and not a good pick for games, but I don't think that's any news.

When the 7700x came out it also didn't make any sense given the pricing compared to the 5800x3D (and specially because you had the entire cost of changing platforms), and only started to make sense after prices started to drop and when the 7800x3D came to be (for gamers). Once the 9800x3D comes out it'll make sense for AM4 gamers to upgrade, and the non-x3D models will likely drop in price as well.

 

[Lost_Troll]

Did you see the latest from Hardware Unboxed and the issue with Windows 11 and the admin account? I really do think it is microcode/driver and BIOS issues that are causing allot of the performance issues. I also think that over time, these will be fixed.

Once everything is fixed, I guess there will have to be a revisit of the performance of Zen 5 by the looks of it.

 

[529th]

Just seen that YT vid and people have to remind themselves that there is a higher risk/vulnerability when using admin mode to malware etc. I would not use an admin account on a daily driver machine. Honestly I'm not even considering it for my gaming machine.

 

[thesmokingman]

Just seen that YT vid and people have to remind themselves that there is a higher risk/vulnerability when using admin mode to malware etc. I would not use an admin account on a daily driver machine. Honestly I'm not even considering it for my gaming machine.

The admin account is not important, it's the bug that will likely be fixed in an update. No one is suggesting to use that account daily lol.

 

[529th]

Honestly I don't think it's a bug. I think it's a security measure by Microsoft for AMD due to chip architect. But I'm just speculating.

 

[agent_x007]

Did you see the latest from Hardware Unboxed and the issue with Windows 11 and the admin account? I really do think it is microcode/driver and BIOS issues that are causing allot of the performance issues. I also think that over time, these will be fixed.
Once everything is fixed, I guess there will have to be a revisit of the performance of Zen 5 by the looks of it.

I wonder if "run as Admin" would also work...

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

According to everyone "Zen 5" Should be called "Zendozer", cause this almost exactly how "Bulldozer" went it was a lot faster on Linux than windows. It regressed massively on windows.
There are only one of two issues that could be wrong with Zen 5. One either a really terrible microcode update or two a design problem. Not sure which one because Bulldozer regressed in IPC, but Zen 5's built up IPC, did gain IPC. Even with the enlarged Front end.

My though was that Zen 4 was at its maximum possible theoretically IPC gains from the base of the Zen core design. So I think this whole ground up design is like a new starting point for Zen while keeping some parts, ideas & changing to new parts, ideas. So they break the wall of the IPC limit on the original Zen core design.

 

[Shakallia]

The admin account bug is not exclusive to Zen 5, the 7700X is affected and saw a similar performance uplift..Its all in the video of Hardware Unboxed.

Seriously, that's quite pathetic from AMD, ZEN 5 is really bad, Gamers Nexus also made a video pointing out that Zen 5 is not as efficient as it is rumored to be, it really is a case by case basis.

That's really a generation to skip, even for people buying a new machine, as Zen 4 is way cheaper and performs roughly as good, and not that far energy efficiency wise.

When it's bad, it's bad.

And AMD trying to find any excuse post release to justify the lack of performance increase is really disappointing. They lose some credit to me, and surely to larger amount of people, due to that lack of transparency and how they overhyped those new cpu's, while in fact they knew it would be disappointing, they clearly take people for idiots.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Did you see the latest from Hardware Unboxed and the issue with Windows 11 and the admin account? I really do think it is microcode/driver and BIOS issues that are causing allot of the performance issues. I also think that over time, these will be fixed.

Once everything is fixed, I guess there will have to be a revisit of the performance of Zen 5 by the looks of it.

It changes things by 1-2% because the bug also affects Zen 4 so I doubt the conclusion will change. It might also be degrading intel gaming performance.

Amd royally botched this launch there is no fixing it outside of dropping prices to at least Zen 4 current $$$.

For the 4% of people rocking Linux it's an ok generation I guess.....

The admin account bug is not exclusive to Zen 5, the 7700X is affected and saw a similar performance uplift..Its all in the video of Hardware Unboxed.

Seriously, that's quite pathetic from AMD, ZEN 5 is really bad, Gamers Nexus also made a video pointing out that Zen 5 is not as efficient as it is rumored to be, it really is a case by case basis.

That's really a generation to skip, even for people buying a new machine, as Zen 4 is way cheaper and performs roughly as good, and not that far energy efficiency wise.

When it's bad, it's bad.

And AMD trying to find any excuse post release to justify the lack of performance increase is really disappointing. They lose some credit to me, and surely to larger amount of people, due to that lack of transparency and how they overhyped those new cpu's, while in fact they knew it would be disappointing, they clearly take people for idiots.

I agree, if this was a 12 month refresh like 14th gen it'd be fine if a bit underwhelming but it's supposed to be a proper generation 2 years later with prices that don't make sense given the perfomance. People were able to buy better gaming and application performance per $$$ for a long time now.

Even the 9950X is less impressive than I suspected and the 9900X cost more than I paid for my 7950X3D smh.

 

[mäggäri]

Should I buy Snapdragon Elite X laptop, since it seems to have best performance and efficiency of them all? AMD is no match, nor Apple. Apple gets charged 2 times from 0 to 100%, AMD 3 times, while the battery from SD Elite X runs from 100%->0....

 

[R-T-B]

Should I buy Snapdragon Elite X laptop, since it seems to have best performance and efficiency of them all? AMD is no match, nor Apple. Apple gets charged 2 times from 0 to 100%, AMD 3 times, while the battery from SD Elite X runs from 100%->0....

I think you should stick to the topic.

 

[Tartaros]

It's an iterative marathon, not a sprint where TSMC beats their head against the wall trying to instantly produce AD102 sized chips with yields of maybe a couple per wafer.

I don't know what the guy you are replying thinks wafer manufacturing is, but it sounds like he believes TSMC engineers put hot silicon in a pastry bag with a 2nm nozzle and they call the engineer who uses the bag to make processors "Master Chef". He is a 67 year old canadian french dude that used to have a patisserie in Quebec and was scouted by TMSC for having very steady hands, but he is getting old and that's why node shrinking has been slowing throughout the years. Like, he doesn't understand why AMD doesn't scout a younger master pastry baker with very steady hands themselves.

 

[SL2]

I wonder how this affects the release date for 3D variants, not that I've heard of one anyway.

 

[HTC]

I wonder how this affects the release date for 3D variants, not that I've heard of one anyway.

They should have used this launch to start getting rid of non X variants: have just the X and the X3D.

In fact, in their "shoes", i'd actually "lose" the X version, and have the non X and a "new" 3D (without the X) version instead.

Missed opportunity, IMO ...

 

[ShrimpBrime]

My kid has a 5600G. B450-I Strix.
I have a 14100F and a B660 board I could give him.

He's running a 6700 XT. But it seems to lack CPU horse power.
Almost all my rigs at home are AM4 except what's on the bench.
Should I upgrade him from 5600G to 9700X (or other)
OR Should I just downgrade him on core count (for now, upgrade cpu later) but have significant single core uplift.
The 14100F is a 4 core 8 threaded part.

I'm on the fence because of the reads here. I just caught up to the last 4 pages. Honestly not sure what path to take. He doesn't complain, but I try to keep him competitive with his online buddies hardware/ They play, Brick Rigs, and BeamNG, and MudRunner.... pretty much all the driving games except racing simulators. edit: 1440P curved wide screen

Another thought, would be sell the 14100F and some other various pieces to build a new AMD rig.

Is the 9700X worth it or not, even looking at a few months, Lets say Xmas gift??? I appreciate thoughts and ideas!

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Is the 9700X worth it or not, even looking at a few months, Lets say Xmas gift??? I appreciate thoughts and ideas!

Currently no, by December hard to say if AMD can fix the scheduling and win admin bs by then and drop 50-60 off the price maybe depending on what the Arrow Lake i5 looks like and it's platform cost.

 

[evernessince]

Is the 9700X worth it or not, even looking at a few months, Lets say Xmas gift??? I appreciate thoughts and ideas!

If you have 9700X money you should just get him a 7800X3D. Same price but significantly faster in games and more efficient.

Did you see the latest from Hardware Unboxed and the issue with Windows 11 and the admin account? I really do think it is microcode/driver and BIOS issues that are causing allot of the performance issues. I also think that over time, these will be fixed.

Once everything is fixed, I guess there will have to be a revisit of the performance of Zen 5 by the looks of it.

Please watch the video in it's entirely, it clearly points out that the issue affects the 7000 series as well. Any gains from a fix are therefore moot in the performance comparison.

Even if we assume best case scenario for the 9700X where it eventually matches Linux performance you are still only talking about a decent uplift in some server / workstation tasks that mean nothing to the vast majority of end users. Certainly AMD was targeting the enterprise with this generation, I just have no idea why they tried to pretend as if there was also a nice uplift for regular consumers as well.

It also doesn't help that there is zero improvement to energy efficiency efficiency so any performance gains you might get are coming at increased power usage.

 

[Zach_01]

Currently no, by December hard to say if AMD can fix the scheduling and win admin bs by then and drop 50-60 off the price maybe depending on what the Arrow Lake i5 looks like.

That^^ or maybe by then some Zen5 6/8core X3D parts may appear too.
If so also depends on price and performance gains over regular non3D variants.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

If you have 9700X money you should just get him a 7800X3D. Same price but significantly faster in games and more efficient.

Hey, that's not a bad idea at all! I will watch the prices of the things for a while then for sure.

Looks like the 7800X3D blasts his 5600G by easily 20%. I think that's what he needs for sure. BeamNG needs them clock cycles for all the damn AI cars he spawns. Says it gets bad after 12 cars spawned XD.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Hey, that's not a bad idea at all! I will watch the prices of the things for a while then for sure.

Looks like the 7800X3D blasts his 5600G by easily 20%. I think that's what he needs for sure. BeamNG needs them clock cycles for all the damn AI cars he spawns. Says it gets bad after 12 cars spawned XD.

Shame the price has jumped 40-60 usd thanks to Zen 5 being so awesome not long ago you could get it for $299-329.

If you live near a microcenter it'll be your best bet they have pretty fantastic board/cpu deals.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Shame the price has jumped 40-60 usd thanks to Zen 5 being so awesome not long ago you could get it for $299-329.

If you live near a microcenter it'll be your best bet they have pretty fantasy board/cpu deals.

Not a big deal. It's all within wallet grasp either way. Not like a 14700K was cheap haha. I could just DryIce this thing on a new board and give him that instead. Then build ME a new AMD rig!!

Just shocked AMD 9700X performance. I mean should we expect it to be faster than a 7800X3D in all retrospect?