Do you use Linux?

[Ferrum Master]

It's fascinating that we have two sides: one group saying that Arch (Manjaro) is the gaming Linux, Debian-based versions (Mint & Ubuntu) are trash

I am Fedora group, and we are few around here, don't have anything against Debian, especially server, where conservative approach is good, but anything Canonical is unstable, bloated trash for me, no thank you.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's fascinating that we have two sides: one group saying that Arch (Manjaro) is the gaming Linux, Debian-based versions (Mint & Ubuntu) are trash, and the other group swearing by the polar opposite.

To be fair, I have only briefly tried Arch/Manjaro, very little experience with them. I tried them long enough to know they aren't my jam. All I'm saying with the above is that I never had any issues with Mint running games on Steam or Proton. If it's supposed to be workable on Linux and I had the game, it ran fine for me.

 

[Shihab]

If this discussion continues the same way, I might have to try both systems and see for myself, as there seems to be no chance for consensus here (yet).

You should do that regardless of which route the discussion goes.
All distros have cons and pros. None fit everyone's needs.
Find the one that makes you happy, stick with it, and avoid Arch if you can (and this is their own advice, not mine </semi-sarcasm>).

 

[igormp]

You could do the same, especially since there are now two people saying they think that info is not right.

Tbf they already did, and they do have a point: newer hardware (specially non-Nvidia graphics) won't be properly supported by a distro without a recent kernel.
If your hardware is not so new, or you got a distro that recently updated its kernel to support it, then it's not an issue.

I use Arch in my personal systems (for almost 10 years), and ubuntu/debian in all other places (servers and SBCs), and I know how to handle my stuff, so that's irrelevant to me.

If you're suggesting a distro to a newcomer that wants to play games, usually Ubuntu (if their hw is already properly supported) or Manjaro (in case it's too new) are both reasonable options.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Tbf they already did, and they do have a point: newer hardware (specially non-Nvidia graphics) won't be properly supported by a distro without a recent kernel.

I've not seen any evidence of that. Mint runs perfectly on 12th, 13th and 14gen Intel and all gens of Ryzen using IGPs. No issues. It's just never been a problem, and many who know me well enough to know I would call it out if there was problems.

 

[jak_2456]

I've already started using Linux Mint Cinnamon on my 2015 MacBook Air (didn't buy it, I traded a Rift S for it and got $40 US). It's been great. Case in point: I have a very old Canon scanner (a LiDE 35) and the computer just recognized it without an issue. I can use the default scanning utility just fine; no need to download the old and incredibly convoluted drivers. The Wi-Fi required a proprietary driver to work since Apple used Broadcom NICs and I had to use rEFInd as a bootloader because I wanted to dual-boot it with Monterey and GRUB had no idea what to do with it. My opinion with Linux in general is that it's great when stuff works well but can be a complete mess if something doesn't work. I've been meaning to try Mint or Zorin OS on my XPS 15 7590, too, because Windows is becoming a sad shadow of what it used to be.

 

[unwind-protect]

I run Debian derivatives exclusively (next to FreeBSD), but I am not sure I am in that camp. Debian itself is what I use on servers and desktops. Ubuntu on the other hand I consider the devil. Mint is what I recommend to other people and run on a couple laptops.

 

[igormp]

I've not seen any evidence of that. Mint runs perfectly on 12th, 13th and 14gen Intel and all gens of Ryzen using IGPs. No issues. It's just never been a problem, and many know me well enough to know I would call it out if there was problems.

Mint is still on kernel 5.15 AFAIK, which lacks tons of features, and it's based on Ubuntu 22.04 (2 years old now). Some stuff has been backported, but there are still many features missing compared to mainline.

If you got hardware that was already supported by then, then great! It really is going to be a smooth experience. But if you try to, let's say, try to boot it in a meteor lake or lunar lake (when it releases), you're going to have headaches.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Mint is still on kernel 5.15 AFAIK, which lacks tons of features, and it's based on Ubuntu 22.04 (2 years old now).

That doesn't mean compatibility suffers in any way. Mint focuses on stability and practical end user experiences, not cutting edge developments, which are not needed for a good performance or gaming experience.

 

[leonavis]

It's fascinating that we have two sides: one group saying that Arch (Manjaro) is the gaming Linux, Debian-based versions (Mint & Ubuntu) are trash, and the other group swearing by the polar opposite.

Coming from someone who used Arch (and still does on Laptop) and has, more for fun than anything else, switched to Fedora on his desktop a while back, I can say at least for Fedora that gaming performance is just as good as with Arch.

This however doesn't dispell the argument, as I just realized. The mesa-version seem to be the same, and the kernel-version as well...

So, if you do decide to try it out, maybe give us some benchmarks so we can settle this argument once and for all.

Edit. As I was just researching if someone has done just that, I stumbled upon "Drauger OS", a Ubuntu fork with mainline kernel-version and most gaming-related packages preinstalled. And a fun fact: Tomshardware.com tested three Distros on Cyberpunk 2077, Forespoken and The Talos Principle II, and all three beat Win11 (on AMD hardware).

 

[igormp]

That doesn't mean compatibility suffers in any way.

As I said, it does, specially for new hardware.
Just as a minor example, Arrow Lake is only supported with kernel 6.11 onwards, this version also adds proper support to Strix Point's iGPU. Lunar Lake will only be properly supported by kernel 6.12.
Due to those things, Canonical has decided to always try to keep up with the latest kernel version by the time of a new Ubuntu release. Ubuntu 24.10 comes with kernel 6.11, meaning that it won't have proper compatibility with Lunar Lake.
Adding to what they said above, Mesa is also dependent on the kernel version and having the latest version is really important for the latest hardware. Here's an example for Lunar Lake as well.

Mint focuses on stability and practical end user experiences, not cutting edge developments, which are not needed for a good performance or gaming experience.

As I said before, if your hardware works fine with it, then great! New versions of stuff may give more performance, but it's usually a sub 10% difference, which, IMO, is not that relevant.
My point was more with relation to compatibility. Here's one basic example of Mint not having proper support by default due to the older kernel:

Fresh install with newer kernel? - Linux Mint Forums

Upgrading the kernel solves this issue, but at this point it's not really an easy out of the box experience anymore, whereas with a rolling release distro (or any newer distro) it wouldn't have been a problem.

 

[inquisitor1]

id like to install & "play" to see how I cope with linux. Im dying to give MS the FU and boot them to the curb. theyve turned to a turd company over the years. I use w7 as my daily "online" pc. thats not so safe, otoh, for me its better then using w10. I have 2 w10 pc, but they are never connected online.

the issue is having a gui thats similar to the MS environment. something mainstream to transition easier. I have low tolerance or patience. even for gaming. sometimes I can play 40 minutes, sometimes 5 minutes so I will tinker with linux over a long period.

what are things I will struggle with in linux and things to be aware of so i dont have too much stress with? ill need to build up my annoyance immunity. any "newcomer idiots from ms to linux videos" ?

 

[leonavis]

id like to install & "play" to see how I cope with linux. Im dying to give MS the FU and boot them to the curb. theyve turned to a turd company over the years. I use w7 as my daily "online" pc. thats not so safe, otoh, for me its better then using w10. I have 2 w10 pc, but they are never connected online.

the issue is having a gui thats similar to the MS environment. something mainstream to transition easier. I have low tolerance or patience. even for gaming. sometimes I can play 40 minutes, sometimes 5 minutes so I will tinker with linux over a long period.

what are things I will struggle with in linux and things to be aware of so i dont have too much stress with? ill need to build up my annoyance immunity. any "newcomer idiots from ms to linux videos" ?

Well, to be frank, this isn't 2007 (when I started using Linux). If you don't got Arch or Gentoo but take a user-friendly distro, you won't have any trouble. You just plug in the USB, install the OS, and enjoy.

Unless you use something like a broadcom-WLAN. Those are notorious in making trouble. But the typical 0815-desktop just works out of the box. Nvidia can make trouble, but as I understand it (I don't use nvidia) that's managable as well. Just ask yourself: Do I have any hardware in my PC that could make trouble with Linux? And then just use your favorite search-engine to find out if it would.

My biggest tipp would be to use wikis, search-engine and forums if you do encounter a problem. The people on the forums are very much inclined to help, but only if you do your homework. Which means researching the problem before asking your question, whatever it might be. Then again on my current installation of Fedora I didn't really have any trouble.

If you want to use it to game I'd suggest getting a distro with preinstalled gaming-packages, like Garuda or Nobara. Garuda is basically "Arch, but with everything preconfigured and optionally all gaming stuff preinstalled" and Nobara is, similarily, "Fedora, but with all gaming stuff preinstalled". If you want an MS-like experience, use Nobara KDE. KDE is very similar to Windows in its looks and feel. I personally love Gnome40, but that's just personal preference. It sure is different than Windows, though not in any way harder, at least in my opinion.

 

[jak_2456]

id like to install & "play" to see how I cope with linux. Im dying to give MS the FU and boot them to the curb. theyve turned to a turd company over the years. I use w7 as my daily "online" pc. thats not so safe, otoh, for me its better then using w10. I have 2 w10 pc, but they are never connected online.

the issue is having a gui thats similar to the MS environment. something mainstream to transition easier. I have low tolerance or patience. even for gaming. sometimes I can play 40 minutes, sometimes 5 minutes so I will tinker with linux over a long period.

what are things I will struggle with in linux and things to be aware of so i dont have too much stress with? ill need to build up my annoyance immunity. any "newcomer idiots from ms to linux videos" ?

Zorin OS and Linux Mint are both decent noob-friendly distros. I would also make sure that all of your games are at least marked "Playable" on ProtonDB. If you're just web browsing, Chrome OS Flex is a very simple distro that is completely noob-proof; however, it's not for everyone.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Pretty much the discussion went arse because of distro preferences and rooting for their favorite cheerleader...

The real question is indeed KDE vs Gnome or some other.

The real question is Wayland vs Xorg still for some.

Other nuances are one liner fixes in terminal... it takes ~10minutes to set up a distro from fresh start for me. Plug USB, boot install, after that run install script with your stuff and copy your app configs back in place. All set.

 

[jak_2456]

Pretty much the discussion went arse because of distro preferences and rooting for their favorite cheerleader...

The real question is indeed KDE vs Gnome or some other.

The real question is Wayland vs Xorg still for some.

Other nuances are one liner fixes in terminal... it takes ~10minutes to set up a distro from fresh start for me. Plug USB, boot install, after that run install script with your stuff and copy your app configs back in place. All set.

Fully agree. One of the main advantages of Linux is that you get to choose what desktop environment and/or distro you use! It's like arguing what the best keyboard switch is: it all comes down to personal preference.

 

[Space Lynx]

I actually installed Linux Mint 22 Cinnamon the day it came out of beta, I think it was last month or the month before, time blurs in my old age. I haven't looked back, 0 issues, runs flawless for what I use it for. I have no reason to use Windows anymore, it's great being free from the chains of the soul harvesters.

 

[lexluthermiester]

As I said, it does, specially for new hardware.
Just as a minor example, Arrow Lake is only supported with kernel 6.11 onwards, this version also adds proper support to Strix Point's iGPU. Lunar Lake will only be properly supported by kernel 6.12.
Due to those things, Canonical has decided to always try to keep up with the latest kernel version by the time of a new Ubuntu release. Ubuntu 24.10 comes with kernel 6.11, meaning that it won't have proper compatibility with Lunar Lake.
Adding to what they said above, Mesa is also dependent on the kernel version and having the latest version is really important for the latest hardware. Here's an example for Lunar Lake as well.

As I said before, if your hardware works fine with it, then great! New versions of stuff may give more performance, but it's usually a sub 10% difference, which, IMO, is not that relevant.
My point was more with relation to compatibility. Here's one basic example of Mint not having proper support by default due to the older kernel:

Fresh install with newer kernel? - Linux Mint Forums

Upgrading the kernel solves this issue, but at this point it's not really an easy out of the box experience anymore, whereas with a rolling release distro (or any newer distro) it wouldn't have been a problem.

Ok. What's your point?

 

[jak_2456]

I have a massive gripe with Linux, though: touchpads are pretty bad with it. There's no options for palm rejection in most distros, and the two-finger scrolling speed is quite off. I researched how to change the scrolling speed and people are saying that you have to adjust it with a terminal command.

SERIOUSLY?!?

It's 2024 and there still isn't an option to adjust scrolling speed?

I don't like Windows for many reasons, but at least it has this!

 

[lexluthermiester]

SERIOUSLY?!?

It's 2024 and there still isn't an option to adjust scrolling speed?

I don't like Windows for many reasons, but at least it has this!

I set mine to scroll 11 lines at a time and call it good.

 

[Shihab]

I have a massive gripe with Linux, though: touchpads are pretty bad with it. There's no options for palm rejection in most distros, and the two-finger scrolling speed is quite off. I researched how to change the scrolling speed and people are saying that you have to adjust it with a terminal command.

If I counted all the little things...

Reminds me of a recent update for gnome tweaks that removed the "disable suspend on lid close" toggle. Now the only way to do so is by editing systemd config files. Talk about going backwards...

Someone should write a decent control panel for Gnome that you can actually use to config stuff, instead of having to jump between tweaks, extensions, dconf editor and sudo gedit every bloody config file there.

 

[igormp]

I have a massive gripe with Linux, though: touchpads are pretty bad with it.

Really? I find modern touchpads on Linux to be almost on par with macbooks, and way better than what's available on Windows. Libinput has really managed to achieve awesome results.
And I do say that as someone who has both a MBP and full-time linux devices.

There's no options for palm rejection in most distros

It should be enabled by default with libinput.

 

[leonavis]

It's 2024 and there still isn't an option to adjust scrolling speed?

There is, in KDE... ^^

I have a massive gripe with Linux, though: touchpads are pretty bad with it. There's no options for palm rejection in most distros, and the two-finger scrolling speed is quite off. I researched how to change the scrolling speed and people are saying that you have to adjust it with a terminal command.

If you're used to it, it's fine. There are plenty of things that are better done in Windows as well with Powershell, so I use it there too.

I know, today everything has to be GUI. Linux doesn't adhere to that, at least not entirely. And tiling window managers actively discourage such an approach. So... gotta know what you wanna have.

Edit. Some grampa-talk: I remember fondly in early 2010, when there was no proton and valve wasn't on the linux-train, I sometimes spent days just getting some game to work over wine. It was exhausting, but also rewarding, and also fun. Oftentimes I just got it to run to not play it afterwards.. the meddling was just really something. Back then installing Gentoo Linux took me over a day - and I removed it from the system a few weeks later again, because maintaining it was actually even harder than installing... but it really was fun

 

[jak_2456]

There is, in KDE... ^^


If you're used to it, it's fine. There are plenty of things that are better done in Windows as well with Powershell, so I use it there too.

I know, today everything has to be GUI. Linux doesn't adhere to that, at least not entirely. And tiling window managers actively discourage such an approach. So... gotta know what you wanna have.

Edit. Some grampa-talk: I remember fondly in early 2010, when there was no proton and valve wasn't on the linux-train, I sometimes spent days just getting some game to work over wine. It was exhausting, but also rewarding, and also fun. Oftentimes I just got it to run to not play it afterwards.. the meddling was just really something. Back then installing Gentoo Linux took me over a day - and I removed it from the system a few weeks later again, because maintaining it was actually even harder than installing... but it really was fun

That reminds me of a joke about Linux: it's free if you don't value your time

 

[Easy Rhino]

That reminds me of a joke about Linux: it's free if you don't value your time

While I appreciate the chuckle, as someone who has been using linux and BSD since 1999 I can say the amount of time you spend trying to get around Windows bloatware or broken upgrades is equal to tinkering with Linux to get it to do what you want. And the benefit of Linux is you are learning as you do it. Windows just steals your info, breaks your system, and makes you dumber.