Do you think speakers are too simple?

[FoulOnWhite]

I think your speakers are a little small so that they don't really look right, however not only is what matters what you think the really important thing is how they sound. If you like the sound, then maybe you could somehow attache them to your monitor - like maybe in a Mickey Mouse ears kind of position.

For what it's worth I also used to have a Altec Lansing 2+1 setup and it was for sure okay for the price, however I came across a set of refurbished Bowers & Wilkins MM-1 speakers and could not resist the upgrade. Sound is improved and I think they do look nice also (This picture is just one I found in a review, the cable management isn't great).

Here is a link to the review: https://www.oliur.com/bowers-wilkins-mm-1-review
It does seem the guy wanted a boombox for his room, more than PC speakers good at playing music or providing accurate sound for gaming, or maybe it is just an excuse for not wanting to put up what the speaks cost when new ($500 or so).

You won't find a new set of B&W MM-1's anywhere, but as they are much loved people they don't just end up on the curb, which means you can find them on ebay and the like.

Nice, i still have my old set of amazing B&W P7 heaphones

 

[R0H1T]

View attachment 364025

You've still done great with probably half the space. I've used a table close to 80~100(?) years old for the main PC. Probably one of the only things I have left of the family from that time. I guess better/simpler times don't last much

 

[Bill_Bright]

there's no real replacement for displacement and you simply need to go with big speakers.

^^^THIS^^^

I sure wish people understood this better. If you can't move the air, you just are not going to get the low frequency response (including essential harmonics) the original musical instrument created in the environment it was first produced.

If what I just said above makes no sense to you, then I am sorry, but you don't understand what "faithful reproduction of the recorded audio" means. And that's okay if you like what you hear. Just PLEASE! Stop pretending you have a top quality audio reproduction system there. I understand ignorance is bliss - and that many times is a good thing. But PLEASE don't think for a second you can spend $500, $1000, or even $2000 for a computer speaker system and get true audiophile quality sound out it.

Note a speaker (with high-end electronics driving it) can produce outstanding sound from, for example, 500 to 12KHz ±3dB @ .005THD and sound great. But that is not true audiophile quality sound across the full range. There is so much more "information" way below and above those frequencies.

Again, budget quality stereo systems could easily cost $1000 for just the left speaker. That does NOT include any of preamplification or amplification electronics of the audio signal.

Do not expect audiophile sound from a computer system that typically includes the left, right, sub and all the amplification electronics in one system for a few $100 or even $1000. Just not going to happen. But again, that does not mean you cannot fully enjoy what you hear from lessor systems - as long as you don't set your expectations higher.

 

[BlindZenDriver]

^^^THIS^^^

I sure wish people understood this better. If you can't move the air, you just are not going to get the low frequency response (including essential harmonics) the original musical instrument created in the environment it was first produced.

If what I just said above makes no sense to you, then I am sorry, but you don't understand what "faithful reproduction of the recorded audio" means. And that's okay if you like what you hear. Just PLEASE! Stop pretending you have a top quality audio reproduction system there. I understand ignorance is bliss - and that many times is a good thing. But PLEASE don't think for a second you can spend $500, $1000, or even $2000 for a computer speaker system and get true audiophile quality sound out it.

Note a speaker (with high-end electronics driving it) can produce outstanding sound from, for example, 500 to 12KHz ±3dB @ .005THD and sound great. But that is not true audiophile quality sound across the full range. There is so much more "information" way below and above those frequencies.

Again, budget quality stereo systems could easily cost $1000 for just the left speaker. That does NOT include any of preamplification or amplification electronics of the audio signal.

Do not expect audiophile sound from a computer system that typically includes the left, right, sub and all the amplification electronics in one system for a few $100 or even $1000. Just not going to happen. But again, that does not mean you cannot fully enjoy what you hear from lessor systems - as long as you don't set your expectations higher.

Seems to me there something you have missed here!
There is a big difference between what it takes to deliver a full range experience if you sit say 10 feet or more from your speakers and 2 feet away. Like for example my MM-1's, they actually play down to 30 Hz where they then roll off in a big way going lower and that is measuring them at 75 dB with a microphone placed where my head would be if using the PC.
Now frequency response is certainly not everything, but when sitting real close to your speakers there is a lot less need for power, less need for big speaker units since less air needs to be moved and so on - a set of ear phones are the extreme example of that.

I would never try to use my PC speakers to fill a room with music in a way my floor standing speakers can, nor would I rip the build in amp of the MM-1's out and try and make them power those speakers - for that I have my 532.H. But I would also never sit 2 feet away from my floor standing speakers and listen to music, that would be silly.

 

[inquisitor1]

You should have gotten the Klipsch Pro Media set.

I did. thats what the sats are. I have the 4.1 set. but thats from back in 2002. the amp stopped working, the woofer deteriorated and only the 4 sats stayed. amazing set, but im passed that and want more. theyre good "pc" speakers but I want to level up.

those "full range" wimpy speakers will not cut it. forget it. get something with at the very least a tweeter and 6.5" for proper midrange/midbass. anything less and youll want more. dont make small steps. meber buy speakers that arernt AT LEAST 2 way.

 

[erocker]

I got a DAC and some studio monitors. Couldn't be happier with them.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Needs citation, also what's 10000x more bass

No, no citation is needed. It was an expression of the massive level of greater bass. It was not intended to be an exact measurement. Context is important..

View attachment 364023
Bit messy.

Messy it may be, but it looks functional and effective. I say well done. I'll bet you get great sound from that setup!

 

[Splinterdog]

I'm still running Cambridge Soundworks 4.1 speakers which I've had for over 30 years and they produce all the sound I need.
If you're happy with what you've got, stick with it.

 

[Chrispy_]

If budget is limited for 2.1, the Klipsch Pro Media is the bar in this category and they're pretty cheap on sale for 100 or less.

Honestly, the Klipsch is the benchmark for 2.1 - it's about as good as 2.1 prebuilt systems get and if you only have $200 it's likely some of the best general-purpose audio you can buy.

If you have the time to fiddle with Equaliser APO or similar, you can tune out the frequency response problems the Klipsch has (credit Hardwarezone.com)

But even the out-of-the-box performance of the Promedias is acceptable given their price, and I mean acceptable from an audiophile's perspective. To your average joe who's not spent time fiddling with room calibration or even taken lossless audio to an audio store and A-B tested a few high-end speakers, then the KPM 2.1 is probably fantastic. Ignorance is bliss and honestly I fondly remember the days when cheap plastic satellites and a small MDF 'sub' sounded good enough that I didn't want more. Once you hear better quality audio, you forever notice the failings of cheaper setups and the only solution is to spend more :|

If you have more money than the Klipsch Promedias cost, you have only two real choices:

1. Buy larger satellites with bigger midrange drivers to cover the limitations of the KPM's 3" drivers and their inability to carry the frequency down to the rolloff of the 6.5" sub. Also, the 6.5" sub is fine, but it's only really useful to about 50Hz, so depending on your preferences, you'll likely want an 8-12" sub instead to go down to at least 35Hz without significant rolloff.
   
   
2. Buy a fancier high-end "cosmetic first" system that compromises on frequency response to focus on teeny-tiny satellites like the AE Aego M or a Kali Nearfield setup. If you spend enough with an audiophile brand the crossover will be tuned to within an inch of its life to give you a reasonably good frequency response that hides the size disparity between the sub(s) and the satellites as much as the laws of affordability and physics permit. You'll never match a much cheaper pair of 6-8" studio monitors but they'll likely be good enough that you won't care, and the upsides are that they look nice and they don't hog your desk.

 

[Bill_Bright]

There is a big difference between what it takes to deliver a full range experience if you sit say 10 feet or more from your speakers and 2 feet away.
I would never try to use my PC speakers to fill a room with music in a way my floor standing speakers can

Come on! This make no sense when put back in the context I established - especially after you then contradict it yourself.

Your comment is not accurate - not unless you are comparing tiny laptop size speakers (or speakers integrated into monitors) or the like with a full range set of speakers meant to fill an entire room. Why? Because it is an unfair comparison. It would be like comparing the towing capacity of a Mini-Cooper to a F350 truck.

You are trying to use that unfair comparison to disprove my point to make your own - then you turn around and support my point by claiming you would never use your "PC speakers to fill a room with music in a way my floor standing speakers can".

OF COURSE distance matters - especially in the high end frequencies. But so do drapes, carpet, bare walls, textures of the ceilings, leather furniture, cloth upholstered furniture, etc. etc. etc.

But none of that has anything to do with my point. And that is no set of computer speakers - that is, speakers designed for and marketed for connecting to a computer - are audiophile quality. They may sound great to the user and that is great. But users of computer speakers need to stop claiming their computer speakers are audiophile quality and that they reproduce everything faithfully. I use the example again of a 1/2 way decent front-left home audio speaker that cost $1000 - and technically, that is budget level pricing. And that does NOT include any of the electronics needed to drive that speaker.

No way a "computer speaker system", one that typically is 2.1 with built-in electronics, should ever be considered on par with speakers in a decent home audio system. Speakers that could easily cost $1000s, or even $10s of 1000s more - just for the speakers!

If anyone suggests other wise, they just (1) have lousy hearing and/or (2) have not heard genuine, audiophile quality speakers being driven by audiophile quality audio reproduction electronics.

Disclaimer: my first love in consumer electronics as an electronics technician, going way back to the early 70s, was audiophile quality electronics. I was fortunate enough to experience many high-end systems. And in the 80s and 90s, was very lucky to work with (and learn from) the Mannheim Steamroller sound engineers on more than one occasion during Armed Forces appreciation days at Offutt AFB where I was a tech and they put on shows.

Edit comment: fixed a couple minor typos.

 

[Bobaganoosh]

I mean if you can up your budget. A set of Edifier R1280T or R1280DB Will probably sound better than any creative sound bar.

I bought a set of the R1700BTs a few years ago for a turntable and they sound fantastic. They do a nice job filling the room and the bass sounds very clean for a ~$160 pair of bookshelf speakers. Not a replacement for a subwoofer really, but for my vinyl collection, I wasn't looking for big bass for the most part. I didn't see here what your main usage was going to be.

 

[mclaren85]

I got a DAC and some studio monitors. Couldn't be happier with them.

I have also DAC embedded to my motherboard. The model is ESS Sabre. Is it enough for feeding that kind of speakers?

 

[thesmokingman]

I have also DAC embedded to my motherboard. The model is ESS Sabre. Is it enough for feeding that kind of speakers?

Yea, but you'll need an amp or powered speakers etc etc.

 

[Chrispy_]

I bought a set of the R1700BTs a few years ago for a turntable and they sound fantastic. They do a nice job filling the room and the bass sounds very clean for a ~$160 pair of bookshelf speakers. Not a replacement for a subwoofer really, but for my vinyl collection, I wasn't looking for big bass for the most part. I didn't see here what your main usage was going to be.

Subwoofers are overrated. Yes, they are the very last piece of a good setup, but decent 6" bookshelves go down to 60Hz without any problems and all you're really missing at that point are the sort of noises that only tolerant neighbours will permit anyway.

I have a Polk sub in my HT 5.1 setup that is barely active because I take pity on the people who live below me. It's set pretty quiet, sat on rubber pucks and then spikes and it's only real purpose is to take 25Hz of the lower range off the workload of my smaller 5" surround speakers so that they can work on cleaner delivery of frequencies over about 90Hz. The difference is incredibly subtle and if I turned the sub off entirely you need movie explosions or or sci-fi special effects to actually notice that the sub's not there. For most content and just about all music, the ~60Hz rolloff from the front L+R 8" bookshelf speakers provides enough bass to satisfy me (and that 'me' is important because audio perception is so subjective it's ridiculous).

Yea, but you'll need an amp or powered speakers etc etc.

"Studio monitor" refers to a class of semi-audiophile speaker that includes its own amp. 5" models from brands like Mackie and M-Audio are actually pretty affordable. Still >$100 for a pair but they are the starter piece that will get you up and running for decent quality 2.0 audio with a flatter-than-typical frequency response.

You'll typically want some kind of inline volume control if you're using an onboard DAC because although the speakers are amplified, you'll need too take a two-channel 3.5mm output from your PC's DAC and convert it into a mono RCA left and right channel to each speaker. The speakers have gain controls typically, but they're designed to be used with studio mixing decks so they don't have their own volume control.

I'm using something very simple with my Eris E8's:


Balanced XLR imputs from my DAC (you can get sub-$15 cables that convert stereo/mono/rca/3.5mm/XLR in just about any configuration under the sun) go to this Nanopatch and then it just dumps simple quarter-inch plugs to the studio monitors.

Personally, I think that sub-$200 you're better off just buying something pre-made for PC like the aforementioned Klipsch Promedia 2.1, but if you want to start an audio setup that will let you swap out the DAC, monitors, sub, etc then buying powered studio monitors and the most basic inline controls for it is a path that I cannot recommend highly enough. Pioneer, Yamaha, Presonus, Mackie, M-Audio, JBL - all of these companies will take $100-200 of your hard-earned money and give you a single studio monitor that will serve you for a couple of decades and offer sound quality rivalling $1000 sonos systems or home-theatre packages. You only need two of them and some connectivity accessories to enter the audiophile world. Once you're hooked up you'll likely notice that certain frequencies are resonant/boomy. That's not the speakers, that's your room - so Room EQ wizard and Equaliser APO are your friend. If you can tolerate the hour of learning how to use those things, you'll be in a world of audio that nothing pre-configured and off-the-shelf can match.

 

[Harlow]

I'm using a pair of ancient Goodmans Magnum loudspeakers, a HiFi tuner/amp and a Cambridge Audio DAC in my computer room. Not true HiFi by any means, but the 12in woofers don't half shift some air. You go deaf after 5 minutes at 3/4 max volume. If wanted smaller speakers, I'd have used my B&W monitors which are much smaller, but still rated at something like 150W RMS.

N.B. The Magnum speakers shown below aren't mine.

 

[BlindZenDriver]

Come on! This make no sense when put back in the context I established - especially after you then contradict it yourself.

Your comment is not accurate - not unless you are comparing tiny laptop size speakers (or speakers integrated into monitors) or the like with a full range set of speakers meant to fill an entire room. Why? Because it is an unfair comparison. It would be like comparing the towing capacity of a Mini-Cooper to a F350 truck.

You are trying to use that unfair comparison to disprove my point to make your own - then you turn around and support my point by claiming you would never use your "PC speakers to fill a room with music in a way my floor standing speakers can".

OF COURSE distance matters - especially in the high end frequencies. But so do drapes, carpet, bare walls, textures of the ceilings, leather furniture, cloth upholstered furniture, etc. etc. etc.

But none of that has anything to do with my point. And that is no set of computer speakers - that is, speakers designed for and marketed for connecting to a computer - are audiophile quality. They may sound great to the user and that is great. But users of computer speakers need to stop claiming their computer speakers are audiophile quality and that they reproduce everything faithfully. I use the example again of a 1/2 way decent front-left home audio speaker that cost $1000 - and technically, that is budget level pricing. And that does NOT include any of the electronics needed to drive that speaker.

No way a "computer speaker system", one that typically is 2.1 with built-in electronics, should ever be considered on par with speakers in a decent home audio system. Speakers that could easily cost $1000s, or even $10s of 1000s more - just for the speakers!

If anyone suggests other wise, they just (1) have lousy hearing and/or (2) have not heard genuine, audiophile quality speakers being driven by audiophile quality audio reproduction electronics.

Disclaimer: my first love in consumer electronics as an electronics technician, going way back to the early 70s, was audiophile quality electronics. I was fortunate enough to experience many high-end systems. And in the 80s and 90s, was very lucky to work with (and learn from) the Mannheim Steamroller sound engineers on more than one occasion during Armed Forces appreciation days at Offutt AFB where I was a tech and they put on shows.

Edit comment: fixed a couple minor typos.

You just totally missed my point. Good small speakers like the B&W MM-1's can very well be full range, only they of course can't bring as much power as big speakers and they don't need to. Sound pressure drops 6db for every time you double the distance to the source, so by that it matters a lot if you sit at your desk with the speakers at arms length or you kick back in your sofa and that means desktop speakers do not need to be big in order to do 40 hz.
Now as for what you need to put in money wise, that is of course also depending on what you need the system to do and again there is a big difference between something for your desk and for your room. Something big requires a lot more power and materials to be good, than something small so small is also going to be more affordable. It is why $1.000 buys a very good headphone setup while the same money won't go nearly as far.

We can also do the debate in another way, are you really saying that a company like B&W don't care enough about their brand that they won't make sure anything they make is good?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Subwoofers are overrated. Yes, they are the very last piece of a good setup, but decent 6" bookshelves go down to 60Hz without any problems and all you're really missing at that point are the sort of noises that only tolerant neighbours will permit anyway.

Wow! No doubt that is an opinion not shared by most who enjoy, and expect true quality audio from their sound systems. Much of the appeal of thundering bass is the "thundering" - the "feel" coming from "all around you", only achievable by moving massive amounts of air - only achievable through a BIG "driver" - typically a large cone speaker with a large "throw" (front to back movement range), being "driven" by quality, powerful amplification.

I am glad, and much appreciate you emphasized the subjectiveness of this by saying,

enough bass to satisfy me (and that 'me' is important because audio perception is so subjective it's ridiculous).

So thanks for that! But no doubt again, those who appreciate true, full range audio would not consider their investment in their gear, or the audio it reproduces, "ridiculous". But again, I appreciate you note that is your opinion - it is just not one I share.

To be sure, there is much audio "information" well below 60Hz that many listeners not only enjoy, but expect to hear and feel. I note there is a good reason they are called "sub" woofers as "sub" generally means below the range of typical human "hearing" perception. But make no mistake, that does not mean the audio cannot still be perceived. There is sound, including sound enriching harmonics down in those frequencies - harmonics that contribute to turning simple sound into beautiful, audiophile quality "music".

It should be noted too, especially in "home theater" environments, subwoofers often are not referred to as subwoofers. Instead, they may be called LFE or "low frequency effects" speakers. This is because booming explosions, rumbling alien space ships (that manage to produce sound in the vacuum of space!!! ), Ork forges, and other very low frequency sounds need to be accurately reproduced if you really want the full experience of the movie the movie makers wanted us to experience.

"Studio monitor" refers to a class of semi-audiophile speaker that includes its own amp.

Ummm, sorry but not even close.

Sadly, these days the term "studio monitor" has been greatly abused by marketing weenies and as such, is often used as a misleading marketing term.

However, in sound engineering circles and professional recording studios, a genuine "studio monitor" speaker is one that does not have internal amplification. Most importantly, it does NOT emphasis any frequency or frequency range to make it sound "brighter" in the mid to high-end (treble) range or more "boomy" in the low-end (bass) range, - depending on how it is being marketed.

A genuine studio monitor has a "flat", no boost, uniform response across its entire frequency range. This is to ensure the musician and sound/recording engineers hear the "reproduced" audio exactly as the audio was "produced". For more information, see Studio monitors Vs Regular Speakers: There’s a Big Difference – Musicians HQ

60Hz... ...all you're really missing at that point are the sort of noises that only tolerant neighbours will permit anyway.

Totally not true. Between 20Hz and 60Hz there is lots of important, clearly audible, audio information that greatly enriches music and the entertainment value of movie soundtracks.

For those who want to hear what is possible below 60Hz, listen to this: 20Hz to 20kHz (Human Audio Spectrum) (youtube.com). If you want to hear and feel, play it though a quality, full range audio system.

Here's another: 35 Sine Tones *For Audio Engineers* (youtube.com) (note this is a 35 minute video and for me, my ears, and the speaker system on this computer, I don't sense any sound until about 5 minutes in when it steps to 31.5Hz.

but still rated at something like 150W RMS.

It is important to note that wattage (or loudness) capability is NOT a "quality" spec. That is, just because one speaker can handle 150W while another can only handle 100W, for example, that does not mean the 150W will reproduce more accurate audio. It does, however, mean the 150W speaker can reproduce a frequency accurately at a higher SPL (sound pressure level) or volume (without adding excessive distortion). And that may very well be a desired capability - but again, does not mean it is a more accurate reproduction.

You just totally missed my point. Good small speakers like the B&W MM-1's can very well be full range

First and foremost, I am VERY familiar with B&W speakers and no doubt, they product some of the best in the industry - hands down. But I did not miss your point. I have heard the MM-1s and they are excellent speakers. But sorry! You are simply wrong to suggest the most excellent MM-1 are "full range".

are you really saying that a company like B&W don't care enough about their brand that they won't make sure anything they make is good?

Come on! Don't be silly. And don't read into comments things not said!

I never said, suggested or implied B&W does not make "good" speakers. But are you seriously going to claim those tiny $500 MM-1 speakers can reproduce the full range sound stage as a pair of B&W 801D4 Signature speakers that cost $55,000 a pair? Come on! Don't be silly. Keep your argument in perspective, okay?

And let's go back to my original point I made way back in post #7,

Having said that, considering a 1/2 way decent home audio system can cost $1000 (or several times more) for just the unpowered front left speaker, do not think for a second that anything you buy marketed as a computer speaker is high fidelity.

 

[BlindZenDriver]

First and foremost, I am VERY familiar with B&W speakers and no doubt, they product some of the best in the industry - hands down. But I did not miss your point. I have heard the MM-1s and they are excellent speakers. But sorry! You are simply wrong to suggest the most excellent MM-1 are "full range".

The MM-1's drop off somewhere between 30 and 40 Hz, so while technically not full range they are close and in fact lots speakers including the big fancy ones do not go all the way to 20 Hz, yet most will see them as full range ie. not needing a subwoofer.

This thread is sort of becoming a discussion about what is "good", "audiophile" and so to that I have two observations.

1. What is good/audiophile is subjective and also very dependent on ones experience. I think it essentially goes like this, for those not bitten by the audiophile bug a modest music system is good or good enough, but if you have let you self experience and enjoy a really good system anything less is not good enough.
2. Some that want for great audio quality don't trust their ears, so instead they go for the most expensive and what looks right to them. This can lead to something great, but it can also just be very expensive and flawed.

Having been bitten by the bug I have come to enjoy and experiment, finding new pleasure in music as I am hearing things sort of hidden by just good enough systems. As it can be an expensive hobby, this has also made me do two things. 1. Great music systems are not a new thing, so apart from things digital buying something 10 year old gear can be fine. And 2. Upgrading one element in ones system at a time not only makes for fewer/smaller mistakes, it also means enjoy haven taken a step up - a sort of enjoying the journey and not just having reached a destination.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

The MM-1's drop off somewhere between 30 and 40 Hz, so while technically not full range they are close and in fact lots speakers including the big fancy ones do not go all the way to 20 Hz, yet most will see them as full range ie. not needing a subwoofer.

This thread is sort of becoming a discussion about what is "good", "audiophile" and so to that I have two observations.

1. What is good/audiophile is subjective and also very dependent on ones experience. I think it essentially goes like this, for those not bitten by the audiophile bug a modest music system is good or good enough, but if you have let you self experience and enjoy a really good system anything less is not good enough.
2. Some that want for great audio quality don't trust their ears, so instead they go for the most expensive and what looks right to them. This can lead to something great, but it can also just be very expensive and flawed.

Having been bitten by the bug I have come to enjoy and experiment, finding new pleasure in music as I am hearing things sort of hidden by just good enough systems. As it can be an expensive hobby, this has also made me do two things. 1. Great music systems are not a new thing, so apart from things digital buying something 10 year old gear can be fine. And 2. Upgrading one element in ones system at a time not only makes for fewer/smaller mistakes, it also means enjoy haven taken a step up - a sort of enjoying the journey and not just having reached a destination.

Trouble is, people who have very high end audio stuff see people with anything less as plebs who have potatoes stuffed in their ears. I mean really, who buys £55k speakers? and if they do, imo it is only as a sign of their wealth, either that or they piss money

 

[mclaren85]

Trouble is, people who have very high end audio stuff see people with anything less as plebs who have potatoes stuffed in their ears. I mean really, who buys £55k speakers? and if they do, imo it is only as a sign of their wealth, either that or they piss money

Only people who has make money with them spend that much imho.

 

[ymdhis]

I think Genius still has some decent quality 2-way active stereo speakers in wood casings which sound rather impressive and not that far off of unpowered shelf speakers.

Having said that, considering a 1/2 way decent home audio system can cost $1000 (or several times more) for just the unpowered front left speaker, do not think for a second that anything you buy marketed as a computer speaker is high fidelity.

You can get EOL speakers at huge discounts, and there's a large market of used last gen AVR amps that go for a fraction of their original price as long as you don't want the latest Atmost/4k60 abilities (if you go for pre-3D HDMI amps, you can get 7.1 AVRs for as low as $100). I built my setup from less than $1000 equivalent, it's street price would be almost twice as much, and it's powerful enough that I had to put the front tower speakers on spikes to prevent the excess bass from vibrating the walls 3 floors away despite only ever using 3/4th the max volume (front speakers are 280W RMS (each), 2.5 way tower front speakers, with double bass reflex, plus there's an accompanying center and back shelf speakers for a 5.1 setup - the shelf speakers were already almost perfect, but when pushed to the max they couldn't handle bass perfectly so I opted for the tower fronts which have double the bass drivers, and used the shelf speakers as the surround speakers).

Considering that the neighbors above me are regularly shouting dobscenities nonstop (including throughout the night), I feel like I should've gotten something more powerful, but turning the volume up higher would physically hurt my ears. I'm considering getting a 300+mm subwoofer, nailing it to the ceiling, and blasting 40Hz sine waves at 2AM.

The MM-1's drop off somewhere between 30 and 40 Hz, so while technically not full range they are close and in fact lots speakers including the big fancy ones do not go all the way to 20 Hz, yet most will see them as full range ie. not needing a subwoofer.

The rated drop off frequency in the specs for any speaker can be as bad as something like -20 or -30 dB or worse, they can technically produce sound at that frequency but it's so weak that it might as well not be there. For the MM-1 specifically, there's a review on youtube with a sine wave test, and it shows that those speakers only really kick off at 120Hz, which is honestly something to be expected from a 75mm woofer. The speaker simply does not have large enough drivers to move enough air for low frequency content, it would be a physical impossibility for it to do more.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Trouble is, people who have very high end audio stuff see people with anything less as plebs who have potatoes stuffed in their ears.

Wow! Biased much? Or just envious? The trouble is, people who think their tiny $500 pair of powered desktop speakers are on par with a single, unpowered, floor standing speaker costing much more who then are critical of those fortunate enough to have experienced true, high-end audio from a real full-range speaker system.

For the record, I did say those MM-1s are excellent.

I mean really, who buys £55k speakers?

Not the point. The point was it is simply illogical to pretend (or worse, try to convince everyone else) a $500 pair of tiny self-powered speakers are "full range" and compete with serious high-end speakers.

You don't like that £55k example? Fine. Are you seriously going to pretend the tiny $500 MM-1 "self-powered", desktop speakers are on par with the "unpowered" B&W 603 S3 floor standing speakers @$2500/pair? Speakers rated at -6dB from 29Hz up to 22KHz (46Hz - 28kHz ±3dB).

and if they do, imo it is only as a sign of their wealth, either that or they piss money

Wow! Ever heard the expression, "don't hate, congratulate!" Regardless, again, it seems you missed the point.

The MM-1's drop off somewhere between 30 and 40 Hz, so while technically not full range they are close

@BlindZenDriver - are you really going to pretend those MM-1 can maintain full range output down to 30 - 40Hz without any significant drop off? Are you really claiming MM-1's ability to output sound at those low frequencies is what "full range" really means? If so, I refer you to the following,

The rated drop off frequency in the specs for any speaker can be as bad as something like -20 or -30 dB or worse, they can technically produce sound at that frequency but it's so weak that it might as well not be there. For the MM-1 specifically, there's a review on youtube with a sine wave test, and it shows that those speakers only really kick off at 120Hz, which is honestly something to be expected from a 75mm woofer. The speaker simply does not have large enough drivers to move enough air for low frequency content, it would be a physical impossibility for it to do more.

Now there's someone who gets it!

 

[mclaren85]

i have Edifier MR4 Powered Studio Monitor 2.0 Speakers 42 Watts (Black) : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ
thay are very good all rounders and very good base and mid and not too pricey if you shop around i got mine for £69 the link is just for jist.

If I buy this shall I still have to buy a separate subwoofer?

 

[Frick]

I'm still running Cambridge Soundworks 4.1 speakers which I've had for over 30 years and they produce all the sound I need.
If you're happy with what you've got, stick with it.

Ohh I had that one, and it was great until it fundementally died.

If I buy this shall I still have to buy a separate subwoofer?

They're studio monitors, meaning that the sound will not be about that phat base. It's for people who like their sound "natural" or "neutral" or "better" depending on who you ask. If you like a base that you feel in your ass (which I must admit sometimes is exactly what I want) those things are not for you. By this I mean if you have to ask about a subwoofer it's not for you.

 

[xtreemchaos]

I still have to buy a separate subwoofer

i dont feel the need the bass is very good there very good across all the range.