• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Quick Denuvo DRM Cracks Cost Game Publishers 20% in Revenue, According to Study

AleksandarK

News Editor
Staff member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,485 (0.95/day)
According to a study by William M. Volckmann II from the University of North Carolina, we have received an insight into the financial consequences of digital rights management (DRM) breaches in the PC gaming industry. The research, titled "The Revenue Effects of Denuvo Digital Rights Management on PC Video Games," offers valuable insights into the relationship between piracy and game sales. The study's most striking finding reveals that when Denuvo, a popular anti-piracy technology, is quickly compromised, game publishers face an average revenue decline of 20%. Interestingly, the research suggests that long-term DRM implementation may be unnecessary. Volckmann's analysis indicates that games cracked after the first three months of release or those from which publishers voluntarily removed DRM protection after this period experienced negligible revenue loss.

The study also explored potential predictors for quick DRM breaches but found no conclusive indicators based on game characteristics. This unpredictability poses a challenge for publishers in assessing the risk of piracy for individual titles. Volckmann acknowledges gamers' concerns about DRM's technical drawbacks, recommending that publishers consider removing such protections after the critical initial three-month window. This approach could balance piracy prevention with user experience optimization. The findings present a compelling case for publishers to reconsider their DRM strategies. While protecting games during the launch period remains crucial, extended DRM usage may offer diminishing returns.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
270 (0.10/day)
Processor Intel i5-13600k
Motherboard MSI MEG Z690i Unify
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V F5-5600J2834F32GX2-RS5W 64GB
Video Card(s) Asus RX6800XT TUF
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 500GB x2
Display(s) Samsung U32H850
Case Streacom DA6 XL chrome
Audio Device(s) Denon PMA-50
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Microsoft Surface
Software Win 11 Pro
Putting Denuvo in your game costs you 20% in revenue
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2023
Messages
1,405 (2.24/day)
Location
France
System Name KLM
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard B-650E-E Strix
Cooling Arctic Cooling III 280
Memory 16x2 Fury Renegade 6000-32
Video Card(s) 4070-ti PNY
Storage 500+512+8+8+2+1+1+2+256+8+512+2
Display(s) VA 32" 4K@60 - OLED 27" 2K@240
Case 4000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Edifier 1280Ts
Power Supply Shift 1000
Mouse 502 Hero
Keyboard K68
Software EMDB
Benchmark Scores 0>1000

DarbyOGill

New Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2024
Messages
1 (0.50/day)
Anyone who cracks / pirates a game was never going to buy it to begin with, so is it really lost revenue in that sense?

From my own perspective, performance impacting DRM like DENUVO makes me not want to purchase. I'd rather wait a year, until the Devs remove it and by then I'm getting it at 50% off during a STEAM sale... so that's real lost revenue.
 
Joined
May 22, 2024
Messages
387 (2.63/day)
System Name Kuro
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D@65W
Motherboard MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WiFi
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO
Memory Corsair DDR5 6000C30 2x48GB (Hynix M)@6000 30-36-36-76 1.36V
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16G@200W
Storage Crucial T500 2TB + WD Blue 8TB
Case Lian Li LANCOOL 216
Power Supply MSI MPG A850G
Software Ubuntu 24.04 LTS + Windows 10 Home Build 19045
Benchmark Scores 17761 C23 Multi@65W
Interesting, but somewhat less so than the more salient, and messed-up, question of revenue differences, after factoring in such things as licencing costs etc. of not implementing any DRM whatsoever, versus implementing them.

Latest high-profile release without any DRM I know of was Frostpunk 2. I wonder how it worked out for them.

On the subject of Denuvo DRM, the case of the Switch version of Hogwarts Legacy indicated that the game required a 30+GB download despite being in cartridge format, and contained "anti-piracy measures" which I presume meant Denuvo, on a console game with a physical cartridge. I promptly returned it the same day.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,074 (6.57/day)
Quick Denuvo DRM Cracks Cost Game Publishers 20% in Revenue, According to Study
This is blatantly untrue. GOG titles have ZERO DRM and deals with very little piracy. Sure, there is some piracy(there's always going to be), but it's such a small factor it doesn't effect their bottom line.

Denuvo is lies. They fabricate numbers to push their crap product. It is shady, deceitful humbuggery at it's worst. Pure garbage.
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Messages
308 (0.19/day)
This is blatantly untrue. GOG titles have ZERO DRM and deals with very little piracy. Sure, there is some piracy(there's always going to be), but it's such a small factor it doesn't effect their bottom line.
I would assume you have a statistically relevant source for this, which tracks redistribution of unlicensed copies of their DRM-free installers.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
3,443 (1.65/day)
Location
UK, Midlands
System Name Main PC
Processor 13700k
Motherboard Asrock Z690 Steel Legend D4 - Bios 13.02
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S
Memory 32 Gig 3200CL14
Video Card(s) 4080 RTX SUPER FE 16G
Storage 1TB 980 PRO, 2TB SN850X, 2TB DC P4600, 1TB 860 EVO, 2x 3TB WD Red, 2x 4TB WD Red
Display(s) LG 27GL850
Case Fractal Define R4
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster AE-9
Power Supply Antec HCG 750 Gold
Software Windows 10 21H2 LTSC
I would assume you have a statistically relevant source for this, which tracks redistribution of unlicensed copies of their DRM-free installers.

I myself am proof, as a young guy with no money, struggling to pay rent and buy food, I would pirate PC games I wanted to play, now as a middle aged adult with money, I buy games I want to play.

The main reasons for using pirated products in my opinion are.

1 - Cant afford to buy (so not a customer anyway with no cracked availability).
2 - Region locking, staggered releases, basically availability. (founder of steam mentioned this)
3 - Try before you buy approach.
4 - To avoid DRM, dont like the idea of a online DRM server going down, performance hit of Denuvo etc. There is people who deliberatly dont buy or buy it but then play pirated version. Netflix and co will be falling into this, as we now in an era where content just gets pulled when they dont renew streaming rights.

Its lunacy to suggest that anyone who downloads pirated media would have otherwise purchased it.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,691 (1.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
Putting Denuvo in your game costs you 20% in revenue
Denuvo is lies. They fabricate numbers to push their crap product. It is shady, deceitful humbuggery at it's worst. Pure garbage.
I mean, did you read past the headline? Or even past the part where Denuvo was mentioned?

The study takes some liberties in estimating revenues having to resort to roundabout ways like Steam game ownership and player numbers. But the results do look reasonably substantiated. And they did look at a reasonably large sample with varying times of game getting cracked. What they found was that if the game is cracked within 12 weeks, there is a 20% average drop in revenue after the game is cracked. 12 weeks is largely because then the game is no longer new, buyer numbers have dropped and the effect of piracy can no longer be determined.
 
Joined
May 22, 2024
Messages
387 (2.63/day)
System Name Kuro
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D@65W
Motherboard MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WiFi
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO
Memory Corsair DDR5 6000C30 2x48GB (Hynix M)@6000 30-36-36-76 1.36V
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16G@200W
Storage Crucial T500 2TB + WD Blue 8TB
Case Lian Li LANCOOL 216
Power Supply MSI MPG A850G
Software Ubuntu 24.04 LTS + Windows 10 Home Build 19045
Benchmark Scores 17761 C23 Multi@65W
This is blatantly untrue. GOG titles have ZERO DRM and deals with very little piracy. Sure, there is some piracy(there's always going to be), but it's such a small factor it doesn't effect their bottom line.

Denuvo is lies. They fabricate numbers to push their crap product. It is shady, deceitful humbuggery at it's worst. Pure garbage.
It had been that way since SecuROM was new, and even before that when I seem to remember people pressing deliberate bad sectors or even special spiral-tracked floppies to get around piracy. They were kind of justified in the context of much more lax anti-piracy and IP enforcement than now.

These days, though? I doubt that DRM is Denuvo's biggest problem. But hardly surprising, given how there are now whole industries of doubtful "natural products" people would gladly put inside their bodies, not merely their computers.

I myself am proof, as a young guy with no money, struggling to pay rent and buy food, I would pirate PC games I wanted to play, now as a middle aged adult with money, I buy games I want to play.

The main reasons for using pirated products in my opinion are.

1 - Cant afford to buy (so not a customer anyway with no cracked availability).
2 - Region locking, staggered releases, basically availability. (founder of steam mentioned this)
3 - Try before you buy approach.
4 - To avoid DRM, dont like the idea of a online DRM server going down, performance hit of Denuvo etc. There is people who deliberatly dont buy or buy it but then play pirated version. Netflix and co will be falling into this, as we now in an era where content just gets pulled when they dont renew streaming rights.

Its lunacy to suggest that anyone who downloads pirated media would have otherwise purchased it.
There is a 5 - Genuine freeloaders, people I've seen too much in earlier times, and still more common in some markets than others. How much of an impact they would have is the exact debate here.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,157 (6.02/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
I mean, did you read past the headline? Or even past the part where Denuvo was mentioned?

The study takes some liberties in estimating revenues having to resort to roundabout ways like Steam game ownership and player numbers. But the results do look reasonably substantiated. And they did look at a reasonably large sample with varying times of game getting cracked. What they found was that if the game is cracked within 12 weeks, there is a 20% average drop in revenue after the game is cracked. 12 weeks is largely because then the game is no longer new, buyer numbers have dropped and the effect of piracy can no longer be determined.
And now, let's consider the revenue drop on a game like say, The Witcher 3, or Cyberpunk 2077 which didn't have Denuvo at all.

Woops. Data missing. We do know that even despite their launch clusterfck Cyberpunk still sold. The Witcher 3 sold enough to make CDPR soar to unforeseen heights. Gaming as a whole keeps posting revenue record after record YoY. Covid? Gaming go up? Post-covid? Gaming go up. Inflation? Gaming go up. War? ... You guessed it. That revenue isn't coming from pirated games ;)

There are so many influences on revenue loss at launch, it all depends on what you choose to look at. Denuvo in isolation? Sure, but let's also consider that Denuvo is applied specifically to a lot of high profile titles, games these days you really don't WANT to buy at launch at all. And once you've played a few hours of them, games like, say, Starfield (never bought it, for good reasons evidently), would you then proceed buying them?! The only people who play that game are those who wasted 70-100 bucks on it, because otherwise you're doubly screwed. Bethesda doesn't really do returns, as we've seen far too often - they just happily present you the middle finger. The absence of demo material is another reason to just circumvent Denuvo and try a game before buying in ways left unmentioned. Was I gonna be a buyer to begin with? Doubtful.

Regardless, Denuvo's selling point is the supposed return of lost revenue because of its presence... but below that is the sentiment of buyers simply getting hit with a subpar experience. So Denuvo is actually damaging the entire playerbase for its presence. What do you mean 'balance between UX and preventing piracy'? If I was paying for my product, why would I need to care about piracy? This has always been the core issue with DRM practices and it will never go away. The only DRM that should be allowed to begin with, is the DRM we don't see, don't notice, and never get motivated to even care about. Denuvo is not that. Its a complete POS and honestly it just inspires me to not pay for said product at all.

And let's face it. I think despite this stance I've got a library of over 800 games purchased across various launchers, and I'm no exception. Good games simply thrive, on goodwill, on community drive, whatever, but they just remain because of pure merit. The rest is just trying to get by and Denuvo is simply a bandaid, along with shitloads of marketing, peer pressure and influencing. Its a fairy tale piracy is influential on any of these factors. The idea to fight piracy is just an example of the endless corporate greed, gotta catch all the coins, while being blind to the emotions underneath. The REAL issue here, is that there's far too much content, far too many games coming out, and far too much crap amongst it. We could do with far less, but higher quality titles, and I'll guarantee you they'll all get bought then. Effectively the fight against piracy is also a way to maximize a market, even though it doesn't deserve that size at all for what it offers.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,691 (1.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
And now, let's consider the revenue drop on a game like say, The Witcher 3, or Cyberpunk 2077 which didn't have Denuvo at all.
What do you mean? The revenue of a released games generally follows a pretty similar curve - relative to the revenue at launch day/week of course, nominal numbers vary.

Ars Technica has a better write-up on what the study found:

This graph is probably the best illustration of their findings:
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
777 (0.77/day)
If I were a game publisher I would be more worried my product loses its relevance after a mere 3 months especially considering AAA titles have development times measured in years and budgets in the hundreds of millions
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
Messages
204 (0.15/day)
Not sure without the actual paper, but it would not surprise me if biasses crept in the study. For example higher budget games with similar review scores may be better protected. I don't know if there even exists good data to make this conclusion with any degree of certainty. On the other hand high profile games have more eyes on them to be cracked.

I no longer pirate games myself and have not done so for a long time but when I did, a game not being cracked meant I played a game which was cracked.

I feel like this 20% buying specific games because they are not cracked does not pass the smell test, as there are plenty of other games for pirates to play.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,157 (6.02/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
What do you mean? The revenue of a released games generally follows a pretty similar curve - relative to the revenue at launch day/week of course, nominal numbers vary.

Ars Technica has a better write-up on what the study found:

This graph is probably the best illustration of their findings:

Stop and think for a minute. Cyberpunk sold a lot in pre order and at launch. Without Denuvo. You could pirate it... but it was never even a talking point. Are we saying now that we know Cyberpunk lost 20% at launch? And even if it did, was that 20% not recovered later down the line, when Cyberpunk either got discounted (and then opening up the sell of Phantom Liberty, mind) or people bought it come patch 1.21 or later down the line when things were 'fixed'? You can present a graph here but it only measures a single angle of a game's release and the influence on revenue. There are various examples in the industry doing things differently, and we don't see those studios struggling with piracy. The real struggle is budget and then consequently selling the product proper, getting enough attention for it.

The only studios that struggle with piracy are those who release shitty games. So in the grand scheme of things... piracy is irrelevant. It won't kill devs who release good products because those always survive on merit alone, and if it kills a dev that releases shitty products... nothing of value was lost.
 

64K

Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
6,710 (1.73/day)
Processor i7 7700k
Motherboard MSI Z270 SLI Plus
Cooling CM Hyper 212 EVO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) Temporary MSI RTX 4070 Super
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB and WD Black 4TB
Display(s) Temporary Viewsonic 4K 60 Hz
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 850 W Gold
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G105
Software Windows 10
It's pretty obvious that the most revenue comes from gamers buying at release or shortly thereafter. Gamers aren't a patient lot. That's why there is little point in keeping Denuvo beyond a few weeks or so.

I can't back this up with proof but I strongly suspect that the majority of pirates are people who can't afford the $60 or $70 for a game to begin with so they will never be 'lost sales' to any publisher. I do know of a good bit that can afford the games but choose to wait and get them for free and even boast about it openly on some game sites. They are the only ones that are hurting our hobby but what can be done about them?
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,691 (1.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
Stop and think for a minute. Cyberpunk sold a lot in pre order and at launch. Without Denuvo. You could pirate it... but it was never even a talking point. Are we saying now that we know Cyberpunk lost 20% at launch?
That was not the point of the study.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
1,418 (0.28/day)
Location
[Formerly] Khartoum, Sudan.
System Name 192.168.1.1~192.168.1.100
Processor AMD Ryzen5 5600G.
Motherboard Gigabyte B550m DS3H.
Cooling AMD Wraith Stealth.
Memory 16GB Crucial DDR4.
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1080 OC (Underclocked, underpowered).
Storage Samsung 980 NVME 500GB && Assortment of SSDs.
Display(s) ViewSonic VA2406-MH 75Hz
Case Bitfenix Nova Midi
Audio Device(s) On-Board.
Power Supply SeaSonic CORE GM-650.
Mouse Logitech G300s
Keyboard Kingston HyperX Alloy FPS.
VR HMD A pair of OP spectacles.
Software Ubuntu 24.04 LTS.
Benchmark Scores Me no know English. What bench mean? Bench like one sit on?
Hmmm. I wonder what the consequences to Elsevier's revenue would be if someone uploaded this paper to you-know-what this week. </s>

Not sure why y'all hating here. What the abstract proposes is a win-win situation for everyone (except for opinionated, hopeless consumerists, I suppose).

Its lunacy to suggest that anyone who downloads pirated media would have otherwise purchased it.
To be fair, it's equally lunacy to claim the inverse.
The late emperor has a point. Without hard data and analyses, it's just opinions.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,691 (1.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
The study itself is inherently flawed.
Why?
Yes. That is the involved in the "lies" part.
Ars Technica article said:
Unfortunately, the lack of good publicly available sales data for most games makes it difficult to measure these revenue effects directly. To estimate a Steam game's relative sales decline in each week after release, Volckmann uses a proxy that combines the number of new Steam user reviews and, for single-player narrative games, the game's average active player count. While Volckmann acknowledges that these imperfect estimates represent "the biggest limitation of this study," any estimated biases away from actual sales data seem likely to cancel out across the various games in the sample.
 

silentbogo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
5,537 (1.39/day)
Location
Kyiv, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory 4x8GB Samsung DDR4 ECC UDIMM
Video Card(s) Inno3D RTX 3070 Ti iChill
Storage ADATA Legend 2TB + ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
VR HMD Google dreamview headset(aka fancy cardboard)
Software Windows 11, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
Here we go again. Over 25 years ago I've heard the exact same crap, yet in regards to video games specifically - it's even a bigger load of bullcrap.

Lemme tell you a very funny story. Just gotta find a link this study real quick.

So, the story goes: EU decided to create a commission to perform a study on impact of piracy on multimedia, probably and most likely to prove few points and pass some laws afterwards to tighten the grip on the legal front against evil pirates. The study concluded in 2015 but the results were so unexpected that they kinda held on to it for awhile and didn't publish right away.
Methodology is still inheritly flawed, especially when it comes to movies. Every "pirated" instance is treated as "loss", but at least they are considering "conversions" this time, unlike anything before that.
Same for games, where if a potential "pirate" can afford, let's say, a "subscription" at minimal price bracket but not considering it, it's also a loss(at least as far as I understand their logic).

The study is quite long(300+ pages), but TLDR is as follows:
1) on page 14 there's a summary
2) Games actually benefit[!] from piracy in terms of later conversions, thus increasing sales by 24% :D


So, pirates of EU, ahoy! You are saving the gaming industry! :roll:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,157 (6.02/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
That was not the point of the study.
But its crucial to it, because the study tries to quantify the 'value of Denuvo' for publishers. The real story here is that Volckmann measures something that is not measurable, because you can't look into people's heads. The unstoppable human drive to capture emotions and behaviour in statistics never really works out all too well. We're not machines, and we're not statistical averages. We're people who get influenced by thousands of factors every day, local, external, internal, regional, global...

All those factors are lost here but now we attribute some kind of value to a 'loss of 20%'. I'm sure in the tiny corporate board room mind, this is a thing. But it shouldn't be for us.

The article on ars is full of disclaimers. 'Yeah, you can't, but he did anyway' and then some number rolls out, but really, it could be anything between 5 and 50% given all the factors left unmentioned or simply not possible to calculate. Additionally, there's no counter study assessing the positive impact of piracy, which exists, see above. Effects cancel each other out.

Here we go again. Over 25 years ago I've heard the exact same crap, yet in regards to video games specifically - it's even a bigger load of bullcrap.

Lemme tell you a very funny story. Just gotta find a link this study real quick.

So, the story goes: EU decided to create a commission to perform a study on impact of piracy on multimedia, probably and most likely to prove few points and pass some laws afterwards to tighten the grip on the legal front against evil pirates. The study concluded in 2015 but the results were so unexpected that they kinda held on to it for awhile and didn't publish right away.
Methodology is still inheritly flawed, especially when it comes to movies. Every "pirated" instance is treated as "loss", but at least they are considering "conversions" this time, unlike anything before that.
Same for games, where if a potential "pirate" can afford, let's say, a "subscription" at minimal price bracket but not considering it, it's also a loss(at least as far as I understand their logic).

The study is quite long(117 pages), but TLDR is as follows:
1) on page 14 there's a summary
2) Games actually benefit[!] from piracy in terms of later conversions, thus increasing sales by 24% :D


So, pirates of EU, ahoy! You are saving the gaming industry! :roll:
Yep... and then there's another effect that went unmentioned here, but throughout human history, piracy has proven key to preservation of history. This applies in a huge way to software that goes EOL/legacy or gets overwritten with a new version. It is piracy, unlocking, cracking, writing custom code, that keeps things useable when the publisher itself can't be bothered to.

In a way, piracy also promotes transparency in information, by making it available to the entire audience. It has a Robin Hood type of characteristic that way, elevating 'the poor'.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 22, 2024
Messages
387 (2.63/day)
System Name Kuro
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D@65W
Motherboard MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WiFi
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO
Memory Corsair DDR5 6000C30 2x48GB (Hynix M)@6000 30-36-36-76 1.36V
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16G@200W
Storage Crucial T500 2TB + WD Blue 8TB
Case Lian Li LANCOOL 216
Power Supply MSI MPG A850G
Software Ubuntu 24.04 LTS + Windows 10 Home Build 19045
Benchmark Scores 17761 C23 Multi@65W
Here we go again. Over 25 years ago I've heard the exact same crap, yet in regards to video games specifically - it's even a bigger load of bullcrap.

Lemme tell you a very funny story. Just gotta find a link this study real quick.

So, the story goes: EU decided to create a commission to perform a study on impact of piracy on multimedia, probably and most likely to prove few points and pass some laws afterwards to tighten the grip on the legal front against evil pirates. The study concluded in 2015 but the results were so unexpected that they kinda held on to it for awhile and didn't publish right away.
Methodology is still inheritly flawed, especially when it comes to movies. Every "pirated" instance is treated as "loss", but at least they are considering "conversions" this time, unlike anything before that.
Same for games, where if a potential "pirate" can afford, let's say, a "subscription" at minimal price bracket but not considering it, it's also a loss(at least as far as I understand their logic).

The study is quite long(117 pages), but TLDR is as follows:
1) on page 14 there's a summary
2) Games actually benefit[!] from piracy in terms of later conversions, thus increasing sales by 24% :D


So, pirates of EU, ahoy! You are saving the gaming industry! :roll:
I swear, when I get a way to travel across multiverse, I'd set up an observational experiment to settle this once and for all. :laugh:
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
3,443 (1.65/day)
Location
UK, Midlands
System Name Main PC
Processor 13700k
Motherboard Asrock Z690 Steel Legend D4 - Bios 13.02
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S
Memory 32 Gig 3200CL14
Video Card(s) 4080 RTX SUPER FE 16G
Storage 1TB 980 PRO, 2TB SN850X, 2TB DC P4600, 1TB 860 EVO, 2x 3TB WD Red, 2x 4TB WD Red
Display(s) LG 27GL850
Case Fractal Define R4
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster AE-9
Power Supply Antec HCG 750 Gold
Software Windows 10 21H2 LTSC
Hmmm. I wonder what the consequences to Elsevier's revenue would be if someone uploaded this paper to you-know-what this week. </s>

Not sure why y'all hating here. What the abstract proposes is a win-win situation for everyone (except for opinionated, hopeless consumerists, I suppose).


To be fair, it's equally lunacy to claim the inverse.
The late emperor has a point. Without hard data and analyses, it's just opinions.
I have real life examples though, myself and people I knew. Never heard of someone pirating games routinely and then buying one if it cant be cracked, they just play a different game instead or wait as it will be cracked eventually. I consider that far more credible than this report.

I expect movie piracy dropped in the early years of netflix, and has likely gone up again now that market is super fragmented.

The biggest cause of lost sales is people mis-selling or mis-marketing their products, or the product been bad in the first place.

Make a good product, price it low enough, make it available everywhere, boom you get good sales, basic common sense.
Make a dud product, price it high, do staggered regional release, staggered platform release, get low sales. But instead blame piracy.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,074 (6.57/day)
Indeed you ask... Well...

Here we go again. Over 25 years ago I've heard the exact same crap, yet in regards to video games specifically - it's even a bigger load of bullcrap.

Lemme tell you a very funny story. Just gotta find a link this study real quick.

So, the story goes: EU decided to create a commission to perform a study on impact of piracy on multimedia, probably and most likely to prove few points and pass some laws afterwards to tighten the grip on the legal front against evil pirates. The study concluded in 2015 but the results were so unexpected that they kinda held on to it for awhile and didn't publish right away.
Methodology is still inheritly flawed, especially when it comes to movies. Every "pirated" instance is treated as "loss", but at least they are considering "conversions" this time, unlike anything before that.
Same for games, where if a potential "pirate" can afford, let's say, a "subscription" at minimal price bracket but not considering it, it's also a loss(at least as far as I understand their logic).

The study is quite long(117 pages), but TLDR is as follows:
1) on page 14 there's a summary
2) Games actually benefit[!] from piracy in terms of later conversions, thus increasing sales by 24% :D


So, pirates of EU, ahoy! You are saving the gaming industry! :roll:
...this... I went looking for it. Ninja'd twice in one day again, not that I'm complaining.

For every study like the one subject in the OP article that says piracy hurts and gives out numbers which show only one aspect of a situation as dynamic and all over the place as this subject, they invalidate their work the moment they publish it because their work is woefully incomplete and narrow focused.

The study Silentbogo has posted is more trustworthy and meritful as it has a great scope and includes all relevant data.

I said it before and I don't repeating it: Denuvo is LIES! Trash and garbage at it's very worst.
 
Last edited:
Top