Please let me know if the UPS that I want to buy is good or not for my PC.

[ziomario]

Hello to everyone.

I would like to buy one UPS for my PC because here where I live there are a lot of power outages. I have a gaming PC, with a CPU Intel I9-9900K and a GeForce RTX 2080 ti,but I don't know how much powerful is the power supply. I imagine you can guess by yourself...I found this model that I like :

https://www.ebay.it/itm/392273689411

I never play videogames,so I don't stress the machine. Attached to my PC there is a monitor,5 USB storage disks,one Xbox One Kinect Sensor

I can't spend more than that amount of money. Can you tell me if that product is good for my PC ?

 

[Bill_Bright]

First, kudos to you for wanting to protect your sensitive electronics with a good UPS with AVR. IMO, every computer should be protected by a good UPS.

I personally would be leery of buying off eBay but that's a different issue. Just make sure you can trust the seller.

I have never heard of Vultech so I cannot speak to that. However, the specs of that 800W/1500VA UPS suggest it will nicely support and protect your computer, monitor, connected devices, as well as your modem and router with no problems. I cannot find a spec for the response time, however. I hope it is 10ms or better. I suspect it is.

A couple side notes. The primary purpose of a good UPS with AVR is the AVR (automatic voltage regulation). Surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords as they do nothing for low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good. A good UPS with AVR will protect your equipment from all those anomalies.

Providing power during a full power outage is really just an extra bonus feature.

That said, during a full power outage, the idea is for the UPS to provide battery backup power long enough for the user to finish typing their sentence, "save" their work, exit their running programs, shutdown Windows, then power off the computer and wait until the mains power is restored. The idea is NOT so users can keep using their computer for extended periods.

A 1500VA UPS is considered large for home and small office applications. That's good. For one, larger UPSs tend to have better specs and nicer features like an LCD status display and support for interconnecting communications. When connected to the computer via a USB cable, this allows you to monitor the UPS status and your mains voltage from your computer too (in addition to the UPS status panel).

Last, remember that UPS batteries last 2 to 5 years and then need to be replaced. This is just normal maintenance. The timeframe varies widely because it all depends on how often the UPS needs to kick-over to battery power, how deep the discharges, and how big the load. I never, as in NEVER EVER buy my replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They always charge more for the same batteries you can find cheaper elsewhere.

It looks like that UPS uses standard 12V 7Ah SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries. Those should be easy to find from 3rd party sources. Just make sure you get the right terminal sizes. And if me, I would go for 12V 8Ah (or even 12V 9Ah) to give me more battery run time. Note you can always go with a bigger amp-hour (Ah) value, but never smaller. The voltage (12 volts in your case) must always be the same however.

F1 vs F2 terminal connector size
F1 Terminal – 3/16” (0.187”, 4.8mm) wide
F2 Terminal – 1/4" (0.25”, 6.35mm) wide

 

[ziomario]

Thanks. From what I've understood,the UPS that I have found is barely decent. Since I love to protect my hardware,I want to trust you more than I trust myself . I'm more quiet if you can suggest me the UPS that you would buy for that range of costs. But please choose Ebay,because when I buy stuff there I can pay using Paypal and Paypal offers an installment payment. Thanks.

 

[unwind-protect]

Don't buy random UPSes. They will give you more outages than good city power.

I use Cyberpower right now. They are not much more expensive.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Easier said than done when living in countries that don't sell CyberPower or other name brands like APC, Triplite or Eaton.

 

[unwind-protect]

Easier said than done when living in countries that don't sell CyberPower or other name brands like APC, Triplite or Eaton.

Amazon.de : ups

Plenty of APC and Eaton in Europe.

They ship to Italia.

 

[ziomario]

Boys,I need to know the exact model to buy in that range of price. I'm not experienced. There are plenty of models all around.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The OP said his budget is limited to that price and he asked if that UPS will work. While I agree in getting a "good" UPS (as I specifically noted no less than 5 times in my post above), there is nothing at this point in to suggest that Vultech UPS is (1) "random" or (2) not good.

While I do not rely on, nor do I recommend folks rely on "user" reviews, a large percentage of "poor" user reviews would be a bunch of red flags. But I don't see that. Most are 4 stars and above.

 

[unwind-protect]

The OP said his budget is limited to that price and he asked if that UPS will work. While I agree in getting a "good" UPS (as I specifically noted no less than 5 times in my post above), there is nothing at this point in to suggest that Vultech UPS is (1) "random" or (2) not good.

While I do not rely on, nor do I recommend folks rely on "user" reviews, a large percentage of "poor" user reviews would be a bunch of red flags. But I don't see that. Most are 4 stars and above.

But the second match in my posted link costs the same as the OP's ebay item.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I do not recommend that one. You need a "pure sine wave" UPS for use with computers. The downside is that they are costly, but it's necessary because they're the only ones that can replicate a clean power source.

That one is a "modified sine wave" model. Imperfections in the sine wave (it's just a multi-step sawtooth), will overstress the active PFC circuit on the PC's power supply and that can potentially lead to a blowout.

Brand, etc. comes next. But what you shouldn't do is use a modified sine wave UPS with a PC that has an active PFC power supply. It could be the best brand in the whole world, APC, CyberPower, whatever you want - if it's modified sine wave, don't use it with a desktop PC.

 

[ziomario]

I do not recommend that one.

Which one ? ok. Please then suggest me one good on Ebay only,because I need to pay in installments. Max price that I can afford is EUR 150 shipping costs included.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I do not recommend that one. You need a "pure sine wave" UPS for use with computers.

This myth and rumor mongering needs to stop.

You don't need a pure sinewave UPS. That is pure marketing hogwash. Don't fall for it. That's all it is, marketing hype by those companies who make pure sine wave UPS trying to take the market share away from APC and others.

Any 1/2 way decent AC/DC power supply can handle the "stepped sine wave" or "stepped approximation" waveform just fine. They have for the last 30+ years with no problems so there is no reason to believe the much more reliable and robust power supplies of today can't either. They are much more capable at handling power line anomalies than PSUs of yesteryear.

Plus, 99% of the time, our UPS is not "on-line". That is, it is not acting as a battery backup, except during a total power outage. It is just "in-line" acting as a sophisticated "automatic voltage regulator" (AVR), passing the mains voltage through.

The only reason pure sine wave UPSs have gotten a lot of attention lately (besides the marketing hype) is because the prices have FINALLY come down so they are within reach. That and aggressive (and misleading) marketing from makers of such UPS.

EVGA FAQ and Seasonic on stepped approximation output with their PSUs. EVGA says their APFC PSUs work fine with simulated sinewaves.

Q: Do EVGA Power Supplies support UPS backup devices that support Line-Interactive AVR UPS which uses a simulated/artificial sine wave?

A: Yes, all EVGA power supplies support Active PFC and UPS backup devices.

Seasonic also does not have a problem. While Seasonic recommends pure sinewave UPS, they also clearly say,

a high quality simulated sinewave UPS from a reputable manufacturer could also be a possible solution to be used with our power supplies.

I am NOT saying to avoid pure sinewave. If you can find one in your budget that meets your needs, go for it. But do not discount an otherwise fine UPS just because it outputs (when on battery) a stepped or approximated sinewave.

 

[Dr. Dro]

This myth and rumor mongering needs to stop.

You don't need a pure sinewave UPS. That is pure marketing hogwash. Don't fall for it. That's all it is, marketing hype by those companies who make pure sine wave UPS trying to take the market share away from APC and others.

Any 1/2 way decent AC/DC power supply can handle the "stepped sine wave" or "stepped approximation" waveform just fine. They have for the last 30+ years with no problems so there is no reason to believe the much more reliable and robust power supplies of today can't either. They are much more capable at handling power line anomalies than PSUs of yesteryear.

Plus, 99% of the time, our UPS is not "on-line". That is, it is not acting as a battery backup, except during a total power outage. It is just "in-line" acting as a sophisticated "automatic voltage regulator" (AVR), passing the mains voltage through.

The only reason pure sine wave UPSs have gotten a lot of attention lately (besides the marketing hype) is because the prices have FINALLY come down so they are within reach. That and aggressive (and misleading) marketing from makers of such UPS.

EVGA FAQ and Seasonic on stepped approximation output with their PSUs. EVGA says their APFC PSUs work fine with simulated sinewaves.



Seasonic also does not have a problem. While Seasonic recommends pure sinewave UPS, they also clearly say,



I am NOT saying to avoid pure sinewave. If you can find one in your budget that meets your needs, go for it. But do not discount an otherwise fine UPS just because it outputs (when on battery) a stepped or approximated sinewave.

Please Bill, this is not a myth, rumor, or anything of the sort, and you know that. Active PFC circuits will inevitably have some issues with modified sine wave output because of how power factor correction works.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/pure-sine-wave-vs--modified-sine-wave-explained.html

There are tolerances, yes. But if you have any reasonable expectation that there will be regular grid instability, brownouts and power outages, investing in a pure sine wave model is more than a good idea.

Which one ? ok. Please then suggest me one good on Ebay only,because I need to pay in installments. Max price that I can afford is EUR 150 shipping costs included.

My honest and genuine advice to you is to save up until you have at least around 400 euros to spend. Then look at a quality uninterruptible power supply model - you're already on a tight budget, buy something that's crap and will end up frying your machine and suddenly, you have a way bigger headache on your hands.

 

[Shrek]

I'm also for pure sine wave, they are getting cheaper these days.

Here is something from an Italian site where the active PFC circuits cause over-voltage on the primary capacitor
PSU_and_UPS_Compatibility_Test_Report.pdf

 

[Bill_Bright]

Come on, Dr. Dro - READ YOUR OWN LINK!!!! Stop spreading nonsense and myths!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOUR source clearly states (my bold underline added),

It’s important to understand that both types of UPS system produce true sine wave output more than 99% of the time.

Modified sine wave UPS systems typically protect PCs

There you go. Your own link says modified (AKA stepped or approximated) sine wave UPS "protect" PCs.

Please Bill, this is not a myth, rumor, or anything of the sort, and you know that. Active PFC circuits will inevitably have some issues with modified sine wave output because of how power factor correction works.

Please, Dr Dro. Learn the facts. Read your own links. It is marketing hype and you know that.

Note to all - just got a PM from the OP saying,

I can't reply because the moderator does not accept my messages.

I don't know what is happening but until we get a reply or comment from a mod, I'm moving on.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

The wall outlet is considered sine wave power.

If your not sure if an UPS can provide clean power, just use a power strip with built in line conditioning. This will help eliminate some line noise.

Most modern circuits in a UPS are fairly stable with minimal noise. You could consider any UPS that can produce a stable 120v at 60hz Sine wave power.

Like @Bill_Bright is saying, it's a marketing gimmic these days.

 

[Dr. Dro]

This is a really long debate that will hijack the thread even further, Bill. It is not just vain marketing hype, otherwise there would be no need to even manufacture sine wave models - just use PWM on everything since it is cheaper anyway. My stance errs on the side of safety (since this is electricity we are talking about), so wouldn't go with a modified sine wave unless the computer is fed by a non-APFC or DC power supply. These are PCs all the same... there are PCs and then PCs.

Let's just clear the air in here.

 

[ziomario]

Note to all - just got a PM from the OP saying,

I don't know what is happening but until we get a reply or comment from a mod, I'm moving on.

Thanks. A moment after I've sent that message to you,my messages started to be accepted automatically. Very thanks.

PS : but this last one,doesn't

 

[Bill_Bright]

Let's just clear the air in here.

Then believe your own sources, okay? Your own source says more than 99% of the time, even modified waveform UPSs output pure sinewave.

But let's be realistic. There are 720 hours in 1 month (24 x 30 = 720). 1% of 720 would be 7.2 hours each month. Who here has grid power that lousy that they need backup power 7.2 hours every month?

I live in Tornado Alley and according to my APC PowerChute logs, my UPS has intervened 7 times for a total of 6 minutes over the last 4 weeks. A whole 6 minutes!

Modified waveform UPSs have been in use for computers, including mission critical computes for over 30 years. There is no reason suddenly they are not able to support computers - unless you believe the marketing hype.

It is not just vain marketing hype, otherwise there would be no need to even manufacture sine wave models

Nonsense. Once again, read (and believe) your own link. For critical devices like life-support medical, lab test equipment and critical network devices, a pure sinewave UPS would probably be best.

But this thread is about a PC so when you spread that nonsense by telling users they "need a "pure sine wave" UPS for use with computers", that is misguiding and inaccurate advice! You are doing the readers here a disservice!

And yes, it is "vain" marketing hype, otherwise you would not keep repeating the hype even after your own link says otherwise.

I say "you" but I do not mean to single you out. The truth is, there are many on this and other tech support sites who have failed to do their due diligence and research and have fallen for this marketing hype. That is bad enough but when propagating the hype further by advising and telling people they "need" pure sinewave when they don't, that is not providing the true facts readers need to make informed, unbiased, decisions.

Again, I am not saying don't get them. I am saying we don't "need" them as you claimed.

@Shrek is right and the prices are getting better. And that's good. But typically they still cost more (as Eaton noted too). And I noted above, if you find one within your budget that meets your needs, go for it. Just don't discount a modified output UPS just because it is not pure sinewave.

 

[ziomario]

So,at the end of the day,it seems that this UPS :

https://www.ebay.it/itm/392273689411

is good enough. Isn't it ?. Unfortunately the Eaton costs to me too much. @unwind-protect suggested to me to buy this one :

https://www.amazon.de/s?k=ups&__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2R6ZGGK5KJRU8&sprefix=ups,aps,172&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

It is 650VA USB / DIN : I'm not sure that it is enough for me. The UPS on ebay is 800W ; 800W is better than 650VA ?

 

[Dr. Dro]

I don't think it goes to the length of "misguiding" and "disservice" since nothing I said is actually a lie. Of course they are outputting the same power that comes in from mains all the time, it's a battery backup. It's good to know that PWM modified sine wave UPS's advanced enough "make do" with lighter machines. My power guzzling machine with its 1300 W power supply probably wouldn't fare as well.

 

[Bill_Bright]

since nothing I said is actually a lie

Gee whiz, dude! Don't be silly. One does not have to be lying for their advice to be incorrect. I never said or suggested you were deliberately being deceptive.

with lighter machines.

My power guzzling machine with its 1300 W power supply probably wouldn't fare as well.

"Lighter machines"? "Power guzzling"?

Nonsense. The capacity of the supply has nothing to do with it AS LONG AS the UPS is sized right for the job - and that is the same regardless the type output it produces.

And besides, as you should know, it is not the size of the PSU that matters but the demand placed upon it by the components it feeds. If the computer (CPU, GPU, drives, RAM, graphics card, motherboard, connected devices) demand 500W, it does not matter if the PSU is a 600W, 750W, or 1500W supply. The supply is going to pull from the wall (or the UPS) just that 500W, plus ~10 to 20% more due to the inefficiency of the PSU.

I don't have a monster CPU or GPU in this system, but they aren't miserly either. Plus my APC modified output UPS is also supporting 2 x 24" monitors, a modem, wireless router, another 4-port switch, and a desk phone too. No problems here.

I showed where EVGA, the maker of 1600W supplies, says modified output UPS are fine. You don't believe them.
I showed where Seasonic (they even make 2200W supplies - making your little 1300W a "lighter" machine lol) says modified output UPS are fine. But you refuse to believe them too.

You don't believe decades of historical, empirical data.

You don't even believe Eaton, your own reference, and the maker of fine UPS.

I am amazed and puzzled at your continuing persistence. There is no shame in admitting one is in error.

Can you say, "hook, line and sinker!"?

 

[Dr. Dro]

We just have differing views on this, Bill. There's no need for that much of an argument over it I never said I don't believe them, if anything it's been a bit enlightening to me, too. There has been some development since I last looked on it. I'm all for people making informed decisions, mate. This is a good read

Pure Sine Wave Inverters: Necessary or Overkill?

Pure sine wave inverters tend to be more expensive than other types of inverters, so make sure you need one before you pull the trigger.

www.lifewire.com

 

[Tahagomizer]

(...)

The thing is, "approximated sin" UPSes often are problematic with equipment using active PFC, like, I don't know, vast majority of computer power supplies. It manifests by the device switching off when going from AC to pseudo sinusoide.
It is not a dramatic problem, but negates the main reason for using a UPS.
Here lies the problem:

Most units take about half wave to switch, so you can go from long zero state to another long zero state, which is too much for many power supplies since aPFC by itself adds a slight delay. Also, you'll likely overwhelm the UPS every time you switch the power supply on from "full off" state. Both are just annoyances, but can easily be avoided with a better UPS.
No sane person is saying you "need" a pure sine UPS. You only need oxygen, food and water, all those computery gadgets are just modern conveniences.

 

[Waldorf]

@ziomario
problems possible if you dont buy directly from the brand, especially when looking at APC, where you might end up with a used/refurb/repaired unit.

the cyberpower are decent, same for eaton, worth it to spend more, as it will negate possible negative impact from fluctations/noise.

and as the Dr and others said, its a good idea to go with pure sine wave out units, especially if you dont plan on shutting down the pc right away if the power is gone.
might be ok with blackouts, but if you have lots of brownouts (power goes out and comes right back), you waste more time on booting/shutdown, instead of just using the computer.