Switching to AMD after 15 years, need AM5 motherboard advice

[psk94]

Cancelled my Arrow Lake pre-order and going to get a 9800X3D instead, what I'm worried about is the AM5 platform and massive potential headaches... why I stuck with Intel the last decade; because everything just works out of the box without being finnicky with non OC memory and stability in most cases, not requiring much or any tuning to work near optimally.

This build is strictly for gaming, while needing to last a decade+ with only video card upgrades. All my Intel midrange builds from Asus still work fine to this day, currently on an i5-3570k/p8z77, unsure if AMD board build quality/reliability matches Intel side for longevity. I also do a decent amount of rebooting into Linux external HDD installs, sounds like the boot times have been mostly solved, unwilling to wait more than 20s to boot while still having a stable system (my current boot time is about 6-10s to Windows desktop from cold boot).

Looking for a mid range board from either Asus or Gigabyte with full support for 9800X3D out of the box, preferably Asus as I read Gigabyte usually stops bios updates much earlier than the other brands later in its life. Prematurely bought this ram for an intel build when it was heavily on sale recently: Team Group T-CREATE EXPERT 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR5 6400 CTCWD564G6400HC34BDC01. Hoping it would work fine if downclocked to 6000-6200, but am worried a lot of AM5 boards might not work well with 64GB without expo certification. I could RMA it for something else, but would rather not if possible.

I mostly care about a super stable durable board that isn't super picky about ram, sort of need digital optical out that usually only comes with ALC1220 audio or higher, and more than 4 sata ports would be nice, but not mandatory. Also trying to avoid bad coil while, which Asus boards are supposedly plagued with this generation on both sides as I like to keep a very quiet PC especially when idle, but that's the last thing on my mind with a risky AM5 build. I know the boards are hit and miss from these brands on both sides, so hoping someone knows of the proven most reliable board versions of this gen in the $200-350 area.

Thanks for any advice or tips on AM5 issues to look out for, most of what I read is old when the platform wasn't mature yet, not entirely sure the current state of things.

 

[freeagent]

why I stuck with Intel the last decade; because everything just works out of the box without being finnicky with non OC memory and stability in most cases, not requiring much or any tuning to work near optimally.

That is the same reason why I stuck with Intel for so long too. I came from Z77 as well. These guys here helped me slap this thing together. It has been smooth sailing the entire time. Everything just works, like an old Intel lol..

I am not on AM5 right now, so I cannot help you there.. but these guys know how to build and will getcha set up

Edit:

I never give build advice on hardware I have not used before

 

[JohH]

All the DDR5 boards I have (both Intel and AMD - W680, Z690, X670E) all have long training times. You will be waiting >1 minute on first boot and if you ever lose power such that MCR doesn't work.

That memory kit you have might have to run at a lower speed because most AM5 prefer 6000. But I have used XMP kits in AM5 boards without issue.

 

[Redwoodz]

First thing to decide is a 600 series motherboard or a 800. All 600 series will need bios instant flash to support 9 series cpu. Works just fine in most cases. The 800 series is so new there is not much info about reliability. Other concerns is PCIE5,wifi7 and Thunderbolt support. Your memory will work just fine, looks to even have EXPO profiles. Asus will have probably the best memory support through further updates down the line, although ASRock is my go to choice for support and value. Any of the top tier boards should do you just fine. Just a matter of which one ticks all of your needs and aesthetics.

 

[eidairaman1]

First thing to decide is a 600 series motherboard or a 800. All 600 series will need bios instant flash to support 9 series cpu. Works just fine in most cases. The 800 series is so new there is not much info about reliability. Other concerns is PCIE5,wifi7 and Thunderbolt support. Your memory will work just fine, looks to even have EXPO profiles. Asus will have probably the best memory support through further updates down the line, although ASRock is my go to choice for support and value. Any of the top tier boards should do you just fine. Just a matter of which one ticks all of your needs and aesthetics.

I used to use Asus due to the TUF line, but it has been relegated to mediocre after 2014, I built an AM4 in 21 using an AsRock Steel Legend B550, and its been a very robust line. So AsRock gets my pick as well.

 

[Vya Domus]

I'd return the RAM and get something else that does have EXPO, also avoid Corsair, does not play well with AMD.

 

[eidairaman1]

I'd return the RAM and get something else that does have EXPO, also avoid Corsair, does not play well with AMD.

AM4 it didn't due to vengeance line, not sure about AM5.

 

[Bones]

I'd return the RAM and get something else that does have EXPO, also avoid Corsair, does not play well with AMD.

That's certainly for AM4, not sure if it's the same for AM5 BUT I'd go with G.Skill to be sure.

 

[ir_cow]

I'd return the RAM and get something else that does have EXPO, also avoid Corsair, does not play well with AMD.

EXPO only adds a few values that would be set by the motherboard otherwise. Usually it is exactly the same when picking the XMP profile. No need to buy EXPO ram just because you have a AMD CPU.

However you will have long boot times with Dual-Rank. Just ask @Toothless how he likes that 2 minute post screen . Personally it doesn't bug because I have a phone and other things I can do while I wait for it to memory train.

AM4 it didn't due to vengeance line, not sure about AM5.

They have one Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5-6000 CL30 (AMD Expo) 2x 16 GB Review. Only comes in Space Gray for color and only EXPO profile, not dual like everyone else is doing. No problems I found. The AM4 Corsair thing was because AMD didn't play nice with a lot of different ICs for Zen1. Its since been fix with BIOS/AGEAS updates. Old news at this point.

 

[AusWolf]

You mentioned quite a few points, so let me address them separately.

1. There are no "headaches" on AM5. With a fresh BIOS, it's a stable platform like any other.
2. Speaking of BIOS... I don't think any board will support the 9800X3D out of the box without a BIOS update, as that CPU hasn't even been released, yet, so there's no microcode (AGESA) for it.
3. DDR5-6400 is quite a high speed, especially with 64 GB. 6000 MHz with 32 GB works pretty much every time, but as you increase capacity, the speed you can achieve will be lower.
4. Lots of makers are cheaping out on the audio codec with AM5, ALC-1200 is a rarity. Most boards I've seen have ALC-897 as standard.

 

[eidairaman1]

That's certainly for AM4, not sure if it's the same for AM5 BUT I'd go with G.Skill to be sure.

Don't forget Crucial, they are still in it, the Gaming Terminology was Replaced with OC.

 

[Pictus]

Cancelled my Arrow Lake pre-order and going to get a 9800X3D instead, what I'm worried about is the AM5 platform and massive potential headaches... why I stuck with Intel the last decade; because everything just works out of the box without being finnicky with non OC memory and stability in most cases, not requiring much or any tuning to work near optimally.

AM5 Motherboards Sheet (X870/X670/B650/A620)

docs.google.com

The Asus X870 motherboards with S/PDIF are on the more expensive side $370

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ybBzK8/asus-rog-strix-x870-a-gaming-wifi-atx-am5-motherboard-rog-strix-x870-a-gaming-wifi

Your RAM is not in the memory QVL list.

Look at the ASRock X870 Steel Legend WiFi $260 (ALC4082+S/PDIF, 8 PCB layer, 4 SATA)

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/yCfxFT/asrock-x870-steel-legend-wifi-atx-am5-motherboard-x870-steel-legend-wifi

ASRock X870 Steel Legend WiFi

Supports AMD Ryzen™ 9000, 8000 and 7000 Series Processors; 14+2+1 Phase Power Design, 80A Dr.MOS for VCore+SOC; 4 x DDR5 DIMMs, Supports Dual Channel, up to 8000+ (OC); 1 PCIe 5.0 x16, 1 PCIe 4.0 x16; Graphics Output Options: 2 USB4 Type-C, 1 HDMI; Realtek ALC4082 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec, Nahimic...

www.asrock.com

It already has BIOS with AGESA PI 1.2.0.2a

ASRock X870 Steel Legend WiFi

Supports AMD Ryzen™ 9000, 8000 and 7000 Series Processors; 14+2+1 Phase Power Design, 80A Dr.MOS for VCore+SOC; 4 x DDR5 DIMMs, Supports Dual Channel, up to 8000+ (OC); 1 PCIe 5.0 x16, 1 PCIe 4.0 x16; Graphics Output Options: 2 USB4 Type-C, 1 HDMI; Realtek ALC4082 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec, Nahimic...

www.asrock.com

Your RAM is in the memory QVL list, so it should be plug and play if the CPU does not have a
crap memory controller, it may work at 6400MHz, the motherboard has 8 PCB layers, it helps a little bit.

ASRock X870 Steel Legend WiFi

Supports AMD Ryzen™ 9000, 8000 and 7000 Series Processors; 14+2+1 Phase Power Design, 80A Dr.MOS for VCore+SOC; 4 x DDR5 DIMMs, Supports Dual Channel, up to 8000+ (OC); 1 PCIe 5.0 x16, 1 PCIe 4.0 x16; Graphics Output Options: 2 USB4 Type-C, 1 HDMI; Realtek ALC4082 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec, Nahimic...

www.asrock.com

To have less chance of coil whine, avoid Corsair PSU.
Some people with coil whine and Corsair PSU(RMX850), changed to be quiet! Pure/Strait Power 12
and no more coil whine, BUT YMWV!
For PSU look https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/
For coolers https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-cpu-cooler-picks-hardware-busters/

Regardless of your choice, I recommend checking out these tips

KVR Forum: DPC latency better with AMD graphic cards (3 card comparison) - Page 6 - Computer Setup and System Configuration Forum

KVR Audio Forum - DPC latency better with AMD graphic cards (3 card comparison) - Page 6 - Computer Setup and System Configuration Forum

www.kvraudio.com

Good luck!

UPDATE:
ASUS/ASRock/Gigabyte now have BIOS(AGESA PI 1.2.0.2a) update for the X870 motherboards.
MSI is updating.

 

[evernessince]

Stick to 6000 CL 30 EXPO memory if you want it to work out of the box with no need to tweak. Non-expo 6000 CL 30 will probably work just fine too, you are just getting a greater degree of certainty with EXPO and it usually isn't much, if at all, more expensive.

In terms of motherboard selection, you could go ASRock X870 Pro RS, X870 Steel Legend, or MSI X870-P Wifi if you want current gen. All of these are the better value boards, there are greatly dimminishing returns spending more. TBH though last gen boards are almost as good and a decent bit cheaper. I'm not sure if all vendors support this feature but I know with MSI boards with a BIOS flash button do not require a CPU to be installed to update the BIOS.

For example, the manual for the MSI X870-P Wifi states that it does not require a CPU or memory to be installed in order to update the BIOS via the flash button: https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/PROX870-PWIFI_English.pdf

If having the latest BIOS is a concern, it's something to consider.

 

[Code3]

This build is strictly for gaming, while needing to last a decade+ with only video card upgrades. All my Intel midrange builds from Asus still work fine to this day, currently on an i5-3570k/p8z77, unsure if AMD board build quality/reliability matches Intel side for longevity. I also do a decent amount of rebooting into Linux external HDD installs, sounds like the boot times have been mostly solved, unwilling to wait more than 20s to boot while still having a stable system (my current boot time is about 6-10s to Windows desktop from cold boot).

Hello, it seems that we are in the same boat it would be wise to join forces, over the years I have updated everything except motherboard and cpu and I also aim for 9800x3d, joining forces we will be able to find what fits us best if you agree.
I opened this several days ago

Rocksolid upgrade tip: Mobos and m2 ssd price-performance

Hello everyone now I've reached the end of the upgrade path of my AMD rig I only have to replace the motherboard and the cpu. The machine will be intended for general use in order from highest to lowest Web/audio-video/office-writing/gaming if the ryzen7 9800x3d will be decent, less fragile than...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Zach_01]

Every board today has the BIOS-FlashBack feature. So an unsupported CPU for a board out of the box is a non-issue.
Its simple to flash the BIOS without even installing the CPU (yes with blank CPU socket).

A 9800X3D for 10+ years? Sure it can be done but in OP's place I would wait to see what dual CCD X3Ds have to offer.
AMD might have something up the sleeve for this round.

 

[_roman_]

Thanks for any advice or tips on AM5 issues

I would avoid my ASUS X670-P Prime mainboard. It sometimes gets an update. And when it gets one it is the latest of the ASUS mainboard. (This also applies to some TUF boards what I saw so far)
One issue is fixed many others still remain since purchase in May 2023. I do not care for those fanboys who always counter argument. I own the hardware - my hardware is faulty. So far only one USB port is able to boot any bootable USB media. I do that regularly. The media work flawless on my other hardware which includes am4 mainboards and laptops. I would ignore people who make claims that there a no headaches with any plattform or an operating system. both hard- and software is faulty. The question is how much faulty.

I recommend a look into the X670E or B650E mainboards. There are add in cards if you need later USB 4.

ASUS Germany RMA is not easy to deal with in my case. (2nd negative) (3rd negative ASUS has bad reputation recently for RMA according to some youtubers in the repair community)

 

[Code3]

A 9800X3D for 10+ years? Sure it can be done but in OP's place I would wait to see what dual CCD X3Ds have to offer.
AMD might have something up the sleeve for this round.

I agree, price permitting and if the dual CCD will not have the same problems of scheduler configuration for two CCX 8-core chiplet design, in addition, the upcoming Black Friday should not be overlooked

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[Laurijan]

with my mobo and ram I "only have" 30sec boot time with expo

 

[Lost_Troll]

I just built my first AMD AM5 system since the Athlon XP system I had back in the early 2000's. The system I built was a budget system since I wanted to try out the AM5 planform to see what it was like compared to Intel's. Now as far as stability and any weird quirks, I have yet to run into any, the drivers and BIOS updates have been fine. You will also be surprised at the performance to power when you run PBO and under volt the CPU.

Team Group T-CREATE EXPERT 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR5 6400 CTCWD564G6400HC34BDC01.

Also, the ram kit you have is EXPO ready and will work with the CPU you plan to use (I know since I have the same family kit in 6000 CL30 and works fine and is stable.), but as other have said, you might not be able to run UCLK=MEMCLK/1 (It is AMD's version of Intel's GEAR 1 or 2.). Though I think it might be easier with the 9800x3d then the 7800x3d was.

One thing you could do, is start to get your parts together and just go with a cheap CPU for now so you can play around with the AM5 platform. Look at this tread here, as you can get the 7500F for 120$ now.

 

[wheresmycar]

Also, the ram kit you have is EXPO ready....

Checked T-GROUP’s product page to see if EXPO was supported - no clear answer. Clicked ‘Specifications’ - still nothing. Scrolled down a little and finally buried under "more product specification" it’s there: Intel XMP 3.0 / AMD EXPO (supported). Silly really - took way too many steps to find one simple answer.

 

[Speedyblupi]

My advice would be: think about what expansion, connectivity, and upgrade options you're likely to want/need, and make the decision based on that.

There's no point in spending more for features you won't use. A low-end B650 motherboard like a Gigabyte B650 Eagle AX would be more than enough for most gamers with a Ryzen 7 9800X3D. Most of ASUS's entry-level AM5 motherboards suck, but they have some decent midrange options like the TUF GAMING B650M-PLUS WIFI, which is an especially good option for micro-ATX PCs. The ASRock B650M-HDV/M.2 is generally regarded as the best low-end B650 motherboard, is what I would personally choose, and may be worth considering if you're looking for a cheaper micro-ATX option or if (like me) you just don't need a ton of connectivity. I would recommend against getting anything worse than that, including similarly-priced ASUS or Gigabyte motherboards. Gigabyte and ASUS' entry-level motherboards generally aren't as good as ASRock's this generation (in previous generations, ASRock's HDV motherboards were god-awful, but ASRock has apparently finally realised that making the unambiguously-worst motherboards on the market was damaging their reputation).

If you want to overclock, especially if you're likely to want to upgrade to a significantly more powerful CPU in the future, you should get a motherboard with a better Voltage Regulator Module (VRM). The Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX is a great option if you're looking for a significant VRM improvement compared to the low-end AM5 motherboards, without being a lot more expensive. For some reason, the B650 Aorus Elite AX actually has a better VRM than its B650E counterpart, with a 14-phase 70A VCore compared only 12-phase 60A on the B650E. If you're really serious about overclocking, X870/X670E/X870E ROG Strix/Crosshair and Aorus Pro/Master boards might be worth considering, but these would be a waste of money for most people.

If you want more USB ports, more PCIe slots, more M.2 and PCIe slots with PCIe 5.0, more SATA ports, more RGB headers, USB4 support, or any other features that are only available on more expensive motherboards, then don't be afraid to spend more for those features, just be aware that the more different requirements you have, the harder it will be to find a motherboard that will meet your needs for a reasonable price. The ASRock B650 Steel Legend WiFi (which is actually a B650E motherboard, but is named differently to distinguish it from the B650E Steel Legend WiFi, which is a different motherboard with a better VRM but worse connectivity; ASRock's naming is incredibly dumb, even if the board is good) is usually the cheapest AM5 motherboard with PCIe 5.0 for both its top PCIe x16 slot and its top M.2 slot. If you want to stick with ASUS and Gigabyte, the ASUS ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming WiFi and Gigabyte X870 Eagle WiFi7 are both good options for PCIe 5.0 connectivity (and also USB4, in the case of the X870).

 

[Lost_Troll]

Checked T-GROUP’s product page to see if EXPO was supported - no clear answer. Clicked ‘Specifications’ - still nothing. Scrolled down a little and finally buried under "more product specification" it’s there: Intel XMP 3.0 / AMD EXPO (supported). Silly really - took way too many steps to find one simple answer.

I guessed you missed....

(I know since I have the same family kit in 6000 CL30 and works fine and is stable.)

@eidairaman1 just bought the same kit and can verify what I am saying as well.

Also, from the data sheet....

And from there Technology page....

AMD RYZEN 7000 supports DDR5 using a new overclocking technology called AMD EXPO (EXTENDED PROFILE FOR OVERCLOCKING). AMD EXPO supports specially adjusted parameters for AMD ZEN4, including voltages, timings, frequencies, etc., and a preset profile to enable overclocking. With one click in the BIOS on the motherboard, users can enjoy automatic overclocking by enabling the EXPO setting for DDR5. AMD RYZEN 7000 comes with optimized profiles and is AMD EXPO certified, providing an excellent gaming experience.

 

[eidairaman1]

EXPO only adds a few values that would be set by the motherboard otherwise. Usually it is exactly the same when picking the XMP profile. No need to buy EXPO ram just because you have a AMD CPU.

View attachment 369021

However you will have long boot times with Dual-Rank. Just ask @Toothless how he likes that 2 minute post screen . Personally it doesn't bug because I have a phone and other things I can do while I wait for it to memory train.


They have one Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5-6000 CL30 (AMD Expo) 2x 16 GB Review. Only comes in Space Gray for color and only EXPO profile, not dual like everyone else is doing. No problems I found. The AM4 Corsair thing was because AMD didn't play nice with a lot of different ICs for Zen1. Its since been fix with BIOS/AGEAS updates. Old news at this point.

Hence why I wrote I'm unsure if it was fixed in ddr5 or not.

I guessed you missed....

@eidairaman1 just bought the same kit and can verify what I am saying as well.

Also, from the data sheet....
View attachment 369076

And from there Technology page....

You bought the vengeance ddr5 gray kit @ir_cow mentioned earlier correct?

 

[ir_cow]

It was sent by Corsair for the review. I didn't have problems with it besides iCUE (RGB) being a thing. 6000 MT/s it could be Samsung ICs. The CAS would give that away though. Not that it can be anything but Hynix at CAS 30. These happened to be M-Die, before A came out. Idk if they still are.

Still the point was the whole Corsair doesn't work on AM5 has never been a thing that I know of. DOA or running memory above recommended frequencies is a everyone issue.

To everyone else;
I think what people are trying to point out that regardless of the brand 6400 (Dual-rank 64/96GB) in 1:1 UCLK/MEM isnt gurenteed to be stable or boot. Simple solution is 2:1 ratio (which will probably the "auto" applied anyways). This will be much slower than in many instances slower than 5200 MT/s 1:1. So to conclude 6000 MT/s is cheaper, faster vs 2;1 mode. and generally hassle free.

 

[eidairaman1]

It was sent by Corsair for the review. I didn't have problems with it besides iCUE (RGB) being a thing. 6000 MT/s it could be Samsung ICs. The CAS would give that away though. Not that it can be anything but Hynix at CAS 30. These happened to be M-Die, before A came out. Idk if they still are.

Still the point was the whole Corsair doesn't work on AM5 has never been a thing that I know of. DOA or running memory above recommended frequencies is a everyone issue.

To everyone else;
I think what people are trying to point out that regardless of the brand 6400 (Dual-rank 64/96GB) in 1:1 UCLK/MEM isnt gurenteed to be stable or boot. Simple solution is 2:1 ratio (which will probably the "auto" applied anyways). This will be much slower than in many instances slower than 5200 MT/s 1:1. So to conclude 6000 MT/s is cheaper, faster vs 2;1 mode. and generally hassle free.

Good to know corsair/amd fixed it on am5