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9800x 3d vs 12900k - Battle of the Century

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83C is nothing for a AM5 chip
 
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83C is nothing for a AM5 chip
How about 90c?



It's lavazen, but it's fast

What temps do you get without PBO and what cpu cooler are you using?
TBF, you really don't lose much FPS. Going from 65w ECO to PBO MAX +200 I noticed an increase of 5.4%, went from 167 to 176 fps. Power draw though increased by 53%. #worth it :roll:
 
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Sounds like you're having some fun with the chip and at the end of the day it's what it's all about.

People: 7800X3D is too limited can't tweak it enough

Also people: 9800X3D isn't as efficient wah wah.

Me: just have fun with the damn hardware.

Glad you fall into the having fun with the hardware category lol.
 
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Sounds like you're having some fun with the chip and at the end of the day it's what it's all about.

People: 7800X3D is too limited can't tweak it enough

Also people: 9800X3D isn't as efficient wah wah.

Me: just have fun with the damn hardware.

Glad you fall into the having fun with the hardware category lol.
This is just for benching, for 24/7 settings it will run cool and quiet. PBO itself is useless (doesn't seem to do anything tbf) and the PBO +200 option just kills efficiency, there is no point running it. Especially since ill be gaming at 4k, im going to run PBO -200 (yeap) and -20CO, chip sits at 50 watts roundabout. Which to be fair, so did my 12900k at that point, but oh well
 
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How about 90c?



It's lavazen, but it's fast


TBF, you really don't lose much FPS. Going from 65w ECO to PBO MAX +200 I noticed an increase of 5.4%, went from 167 to 176 fps. Power draw though increased by 53%. #worth it :roll:
Nervous Key And Peele GIF

That's still with pbo enabled right?I'd be kinda uncomfortable having that high of a cpu temp.
Edit:nvm I just saw your other comment.
 
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That's still with pbo enabled right?I'd be kinda uncomfortable having that high of a cpu temp.
Edit:nvm I just saw your other comment.
Yes it's with PBO + 200.

Without the PBO it drops to 105-110w in this game and temps are at the mid 70ies which is decent. It's one of the heaviest games currently

Does AMD support an AVX underclock like Intel? I can run -30co on everything but AVX instructions :roll:

@Akkedie

Tested your game. In the ingamebenchmark the 9800x 3d passes with flying colors - comparisons in spoiler

12900k troy total war.JPG



image_2024-11-20_221602092.png

But in the ingamescenario you asked me to test with the massive armies although the 9800x 3d probably had higher averages it dropped to ~130 fps while the 12900k was at 150.

I don't know if it's a big ask but do you perhaps have kingdom come installed?
I'm doing research on my next cpu upgrade and a thread came up about something called "amdip" which seems to be a bit of a controversial topic.
He runs trough a specific gate that's causing him a dip that supposedly intel doesn't suffer from.
If you have time could you perhaps go in the same spot in-game with your 9800x3d and see if you get the same dip?I was told the man in the video doesn't know how to tune amd cpu's and that its's probably flck related.
Thanks in advance.
And the moment you've all been waiting for. I dropped 100 fps on his "MAX OC!!!111eleven" results

 
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Yes it's with PBO + 200.

Without the PBO it drops to 105-110w in this game and temps are at the mid 70ies which is decent. It's one of the heaviest games currently

Does AMD support an AVX underclock like Intel? I can run -30co on everything but AVX instructions :roll:

@Akkedie

Tested your game. In the ingamebenchmark the 9800x 3d passes with flying colors - comparisons in spoiler





But in the ingamescenario you asked me to test with the massive armies although the 9800x 3d probably had higher averages it dropped to ~130 fps while the 12900k was at 150.


And the moment you've all been waiting for. I dropped 100 fps on his "MAX OC!!!111eleven" results

I wonder if not having a super fixed clock can effect frametimes.Seeing the clock constantly shifting around 5355-5420 is a bit concerning.That normal for amd cpu's?
 
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I wonder if not having a super fixed clock can effect frametimes.Seeing the clock constantly shifting around 5355-5420 is a bit concerning.That normal for amd cpu's?
Well, I'm not an expert on amd chips but it looks normal, it's due to PBO + 200. Cpu bounces off its power thermal and current limits. With the +200 disabled it locks to 5225 MHz.
 
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Well, I'm not an expert on amd chips but it looks normal, it's due to PBO + 200. Cpu bounces off its power thermal and current limits. With the +200 disabled it locks to 5225 MHz.
Interesting.Il definitely run it with PBO off when I get my hands on it then.
I don't know if it's placebo but surely having a fixed core would benefit the frametime more over a bouncy clock.
 
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@Akkedie

Tested your game. In the ingamebenchmark the 9800x 3d passes with flying colors - comparisons in spoiler

But in the ingamescenario you asked me to test with the massive armies although the 9800x 3d probably had higher averages it dropped to ~130 fps while the 12900k was at 150.
Thanks, that's really interesting to see! I think it's down to the core count, because the grass setting (at extreme) actually scales per core very well, which explains also why IgorsLab had the Arrow Lake chips dominate in that scenario. Will make for a very cool scenario for a 9950X3D.
 
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Yes it's with PBO + 200.

Without the PBO it drops to 105-110w in this game and temps are at the mid 70ies which is decent. It's one of the heaviest games currently

Does AMD support an AVX underclock like Intel? I can run -30co on everything but AVX instructions :roll:

@Akkedie

Tested your game. In the ingamebenchmark the 9800x 3d passes with flying colors - comparisons in spoiler





But in the ingamescenario you asked me to test with the massive armies although the 9800x 3d probably had higher averages it dropped to ~130 fps while the 12900k was at 150.


And the moment you've all been waiting for. I dropped 100 fps on his "MAX OC!!!111eleven" results


Yes it's with PBO + 200.

Without the PBO it drops to 105-110w in this game and temps are at the mid 70ies which is decent. It's one of the heaviest games currently

Does AMD support an AVX underclock like Intel? I can run -30co on everything but AVX instructions :roll:

@Akkedie

Tested your game. In the ingamebenchmark the 9800x 3d passes with flying colors - comparisons in spoiler





But in the ingamescenario you asked me to test with the massive armies although the 9800x 3d probably had higher averages it dropped to ~130 fps while the 12900k was at 150.


And the moment you've all been waiting for. I dropped 100 fps on his "MAX OC!!!111eleven" results

I have to retest with my 7800X3D
 
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I have to retest with my 7800X3D
From what i've gathered, with a few exceptions like Total war, 9800x 3d tuned is ~20% faster than 12900k tuned. So it should be at least as fast or faster than a tuned 14900k as well. Not bad at all.

Interesting.Il definitely run it with PBO off when I get my hands on it then.
I don't know if it's placebo but surely having a fixed core would benefit the frametime more over a bouncy clock.
You can also do a manual OC as well - you lock the cores and the voltages to whatever you want to - but from my experience it's not worth it. It will turn an otherwise kinda efficient gaming chip into a power guzzling monster. Stock with PBO and negative CO is the way to go in my experience. Generally speaking if it stays under 100w in games (or other workloads) the temps are actually very very manageable. It's when you try pushing over 110-120w that it starts breathing fire.

Ram gave me mega headache to tune, the first day nothing was responding, no matter what I did it failed to boot. I think my mobo on default was misconfiguring the nitro settings, I manually changed them to 1-3-1 and all went good from then on. My issue with AM5 is the boot times - my mobo is supposedly the best AM5 board when it comes to boot times but it's still kinda slow compared to intel , whether MCR is on or off. It's nothing horrible like the stories I've heard, but it takes a good 10 seconds longer than my intel platform.

The lack of cores compared to other chips is very telling though. I've tried repeating something I was frequently doing on my 12900k, namely unpacking a HUGE file on the background while playing cyberpunk. 12900k handled it business as usual, the thread director put the game on the Pcores and the ecores were handling the unpacking. I didn't touch anything, just launched cyberpunk and played like normal. With the 9800x 3d, yeah, you can't do that.

Overall I prefer my 12900k because it's just faster in MT workloads. The 9800x 3d is clearly faster in games, but in actual gaming scenarios it doesn't offer any tangible performance benefits. Not even with a 5090 will that happen. In order to test the CPUs in some games I was dropping to 1080p with DLSS Ultra performance on top to be able to actually see a difference between them. The only exception i've seen where the 9800x 3d actually offers better performance in a realistic scenario is MSFS. If you are playing MSFS, at 500$ I'd say it's actually cheap for the performance you are getting. Nothing touches it. My 12900k with the framegen mod was barely matching the 9800x 3d running without frame gen, lol. It was also a lot faster in baldurs gate 3 for example, but both chips were doing 100+ fps, and in a turn based game like that, it doesn't really matter at that point. Also asseetto corsa, the 9800x 3d was 40% faster - but again the 12900k was hitting 260-270 fps in nordschleife with 24 AI cars. The 9800x 3d doesn't offer a tangible upgrade unless you are rocking a 1080p 480hz monitor or something like that.

If the 9950x 3d doesn't launch at an insane price - I'd say it's much more worth it over the 9800x 3d. With tools like CapframeX you can lock a game to the 3d ccd with the press of a button, no need to be going into the bios and all that crap. I think I'll sell the 9800x 3d and go for the 9950x3d if it launches at 650 or below.

EG1. To avoid any arguments - the above applies to people that actually tune their chips and ram. If you are running stock with XMP ram the differences are much bigger and what I said doesn't apply to you.

EG2. And i'd still like someone to explain to me what does PBO do on it's own? I've seen 0 difference between PBO on or off. It's only the +200 option that does something.

Oh and a final thing I've noticed, recording drops performance a bit on the 3d chip, I don't know why that is. It can't be the cores cause supposedly it all runs on the GPU, im using shadowplay from geforce experience. That wasn't happening with the 12900k. So my comparison video will be a little skewed because of that, numbers are a big higher on the 9800x 3d than the recording shows. Unless I find out why and fix it, it is what it is :(
 
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For gaming only there is none better atm, but I would say i7 and i9s + upcoming 9950X3D is more appealing for those doing some productivity etc if you are willing to pay the extra price. As for recording if I remember correctly you get less performanceloss with more cores to share the burden.
 
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From what i've gathered, with a few exceptions like Total war, 9800x 3d tuned is ~20% faster than 12900k tuned. So it should be at least as fast or faster than a tuned 14900k as well. Not bad at all.


You can also do a manual OC as well - you lock the cores and the voltages to whatever you want to - but from my experience it's not worth it. It will turn an otherwise kinda efficient gaming chip into a power guzzling monster. Stock with PBO and negative CO is the way to go in my experience. Generally speaking if it stays under 100w in games (or other workloads) the temps are actually very very manageable. It's when you try pushing over 110-120w that it starts breathing fire.

Ram gave me mega headache to tune, the first day nothing was responding, no matter what I did it failed to boot. I think my mobo on default was misconfiguring the nitro settings, I manually changed them to 1-3-1 and all went good from then on. My issue with AM5 is the boot times - my mobo is supposedly the best AM5 board when it comes to boot times but it's still kinda slow compared to intel , whether MCR is on or off. It's nothing horrible like the stories I've heard, but it takes a good 10 seconds longer than my intel platform.

The lack of cores compared to other chips is very telling though. I've tried repeating something I was frequently doing on my 12900k, namely unpacking a HUGE file on the background while playing cyberpunk. 12900k handled it business as usual, the thread director put the game on the Pcores and the ecores were handling the unpacking. I didn't touch anything, just launched cyberpunk and played like normal. With the 9800x 3d, yeah, you can't do that.

Overall I prefer my 12900k because it's just faster in MT workloads. The 9800x 3d is clearly faster in games, but in actual gaming scenarios it doesn't offer any tangible performance benefits. Not even with a 5090 will that happen. In order to test the CPUs in some games I was dropping to 1080p with DLSS Ultra performance on top to be able to actually see a difference between them. The only exception i've seen where the 9800x 3d actually offers better performance in a realistic scenario is MSFS. If you are playing MSFS, at 500$ I'd say it's actually cheap for the performance you are getting. Nothing touches it. My 12900k with the framegen mod was barely matching the 9800x 3d running without frame gen, lol. It was also a lot faster in baldurs gate 3 for example, but both chips were doing 100+ fps, and in a turn based game like that, it doesn't really matter at that point. Also asseetto corsa, the 9800x 3d was 40% faster - but again the 12900k was hitting 260-270 fps in nordschleife with 24 AI cars. The 9800x 3d doesn't offer a tangible upgrade unless you are rocking a 1080p 480hz monitor or something like that.

If the 9950x 3d doesn't launch at an insane price - I'd say it's much more worth it over the 9800x 3d. With tools like CapframeX you can lock a game to the 3d ccd with the press of a button, no need to be going into the bios and all that crap. I think I'll sell the 9800x 3d and go for the 9950x3d if it launches at 650 or below.

EG1. To avoid any arguments - the above applies to people that actually tune their chips and ram. If you are running stock with XMP ram the differences are much bigger and what I said doesn't apply to you.

EG2. And i'd still like someone to explain to me what does PBO do on it's own? I've seen 0 difference between PBO on or off. It's only the +200 option that does something.

Oh and a final thing I've noticed, recording drops performance a bit on the 3d chip, I don't know why that is. It can't be the cores cause supposedly it all runs on the GPU, im using shadowplay from geforce experience. That wasn't happening with the 12900k. So my comparison video will be a little skewed because of that, numbers are a big higher on the 9800x 3d than the recording shows. Unless I find out why and fix it, it is what it is :(
You can look at the PBO as an advanced turbo, it just adds a frequency/voltage/wattage limit so where high frequency is needed you gain performance. The interesting thing about PBO is that you can tune it a lot, but again, this will help you in certain situation only.

Process lasso can help you in some way as a thread director, they do similar things, just try it.

The higher core count helps a bit with faster multi-thread processing.
 
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Wonder if it was the recording causing these.They seem so out of place and consistent.Noticed them in cyberpunk aswell.

View attachment 372710
Those are tiny, lol, you definitely can't notice them in game. It's basically 1 frame out of 100+ a second that takes longer to render.
 
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Those are tiny, lol, you definitely can't notice them in game. It's basically 1 frame out of 100+ a second that takes longer to render.

And for 99% Afterburner itself is cause of those stutterers. People quit using it.
 
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TBF, you really don't lose much FPS. Going from 65w ECO to PBO MAX +200 I noticed an increase of 5.4%, went from 167 to 176 fps. Power draw though increased by 53%. #worth it :roll:
I wonder how the 9800X3D will perform in the opposite direction with undervolting and perhaps a mild underclock if needed. There should be no reason that the 7800X3D remains the efficiency king for gaming.
 
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Those are tiny, lol, you definitely can't notice them in game. It's basically 1 frame out of 100+ a second that takes longer to render.
Hope so because I tend to notice stuff like this.Couple of times in wow I was noticing a subtle hitch happening very occasionally and it was the frametime spiking from 7.2ms flat (141 fps limit) to 12-15ms.It was close to subtle but I still kept picking it up visually.My brain picks up on the smallest most minute shit and hyper focuses on it.That's why I always keep mentioning about having a smooth frametime.
Starting to wonder if I might some form of OCD :D
 
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If the 9950x 3d doesn't launch at an insane price - I'd say it's much more worth it over the 9800x 3d. With tools like CapframeX you can lock a game to the 3d ccd with the press of a button, no need to be going into the bios and all that crap. I think I'll sell the 9800x 3d and go for the 9950x3d if it launches at 650 or below.

EG1. To avoid any arguments - the above applies to people that actually tune their chips and ram. If you are running stock with XMP ram the differences are much bigger and what I said doesn't apply to you.

EG2. And i'd still like someone to explain to me what does PBO do on it's own? I've seen 0 difference between PBO on or off. It's only the +200 option that does something.

Oh and a final thing I've noticed, recording drops performance a bit on the 3d chip, I don't know why that is. It can't be the cores cause supposedly it all runs on the GPU, im using shadowplay from geforce experience. That wasn't happening with the 12900k. So my comparison video will be a little skewed because of that, numbers are a big higher on the 9800x 3d than the recording shows. Unless I find out why and fix it, it is what it is :(

Yeah, that's the reason I swapped to the 7950X3D from the 7800X3D... MT just isn't very good. I also like tieing all my none gaming processes to the none cache ccd.

The slight headache of setting up process lasso is lesser than the headache of slow MT lol.

I'd probably be ok with the 9800X3D MT though it's much faster than the 7800X3D which was on the edge of acceptable to me.

I'm super excited to see the 9950X3D due to AMD saying it's much better likely due to having cache on Both CCD while maintaining good clocks.

Still for people who only game this is an awesome cpu but that doesn't change that 12th gen and 5000X3D or newer are all pretty awesome also.

If intel can fix the inconsistency with Core 200 it's fine as well.
 
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5 minutes into sony vegas, don't go crazy over my leet editing skillz.

Reuploaded





We got another one lads. Interesting power draw, the 12900k is chill as a cucumber



 
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I wonder how the 9800X3D will perform in the opposite direction with undervolting and perhaps a mild underclock if needed. There should be no reason that the 7800X3D remains the efficiency king for gaming.
Yeah. If 9800X3D had run 100-150MHz lower and had the 85-100W-ish ppt limit like 7800X3D I bet it would beat it on efficiency.
 
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Storage 2TB Aorus 7300 Gen 4
Display(s) 7 Inch IPS Display @120hz
Case Plastic Shell Case designed by Asus
Audio Device(s) Asus ROG Delta
Power Supply 40WHrs, 4S1P, 4-cell Li-ion with a 65W PD Charger
Mouse Asus ROG Keris Wireless
Keyboard AKKO 3098B hotswapped to speed silver pro switches
Software Windows 11 Home (Debloated and tweaked)
5 minutes into sony vegas, don't go crazy over my leet editing skillz.

Reuploaded





We got another one lads. Interesting power draw, the 12900k is chill as a cucumber



Screenshot 2024-11-22 155747.png

1080p run on my gaming gear (yeah your new shiny x3d stomps it :laugh:, I also don't know what settings you playing at, mine's on Ultra High, just turned off the adaptive resolution thing)

99% GPU utilization, CPU around 20-23% usage (on 4k I am normally 13-15% CPU usage only), your i9 results are way off, also has lower GPU utilization (well you can blame windows for that..lol..this is a special build with the scheduling for Intel isn't broke)
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
3,447 (2.12/day)
System Name Mean machine
Processor 12900k
Motherboard MSI Unify X
Cooling Noctua U12A
Memory 7600c34
Video Card(s) 4090 Gamerock oc
Storage 980 pro 2tb
Display(s) Samsung crg90
Case Fractal Torent
Audio Device(s) Hifiman Arya / a30 - d30 pro stack
Power Supply Be quiet dark power pro 1200
Mouse Viper ultimate
Keyboard Blackwidow 65%
View attachment 372818
1080p run on my gaming gear (yeah your new shiny x3d stomps it :laugh:, I also don't know what settings you playing at, mine's on Ultra High, just turned off the adaptive resolution thing)

99% GPU utilization, CPU around 20-23% usage (on 4k I am normally 13-15% CPU usage only), your i9 results are way off, also has lower GPU utilization (well you can blame windows for that..lol..this is a special build with the scheduling for Intel isn't broke)
You are running xmp memory right? If you fix the memory you should be matching the 3d. I'm using all ultra but res is 1080 with dlss ultra performance.

Game, even though it has an Intel badge at the start, hates ecores. I'm scoring 210 with ecores off. You can see the score at the end, my 12900k scored 191.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 9, 2024
Messages
253 (1.10/day)
System Name Crapostrophic
Processor AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme
Motherboard ASUS Custom PCB
Cooling Stock Asus Fan and Cooler Design
Memory 16GB of LPDDR5 running 6400mhz with tweaked timings
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 780M APU
Storage 2TB Aorus 7300 Gen 4
Display(s) 7 Inch IPS Display @120hz
Case Plastic Shell Case designed by Asus
Audio Device(s) Asus ROG Delta
Power Supply 40WHrs, 4S1P, 4-cell Li-ion with a 65W PD Charger
Mouse Asus ROG Keris Wireless
Keyboard AKKO 3098B hotswapped to speed silver pro switches
Software Windows 11 Home (Debloated and tweaked)
You are running xmp memory right?
do I look like running XMP? its always forever 24/7 8600MT's for me.
I'm using all ultra but res is 1080 with dlss ultra performance.
I am native just disabled the adaptive resolution thingy
I'm scoring 210 with ecores off
I with E-Cores ON. Can't be really bothered with always going into the BIOS and dialing stuff, once I set, save as a profile and just forget about it, boot and play.

EDIT:
Screenshot 2024-11-22 163819.png


With DLSS to ULTRA PERFORMANCE as the same as your setting.
99% GPU Usage, CPU is now hovering between 25-27% usage

oh, you're using a 4090..hahaha..Mine is measly.
 
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