9800x 3d vs 12900k - Battle of the Century

[JustBenching]

do I look like running XMP? its always forever 24/7 8600MT's for me.

I am native just disabled the adaptive resolution thingy

I with E-Cores ON. Can't be really bothered with always going into the BIOS and dialing stuff, once I set, save as a profile and just forget about it, boot and play.

Then use dlss, you are probably gpu bound. My 12900k gets 191 at stock so you can't be at 195.

EDIT:
View attachment 372822

With DLSS to ULTRA PERFORMANCE as the same as your setting.
99% GPU Usage, CPU is now hovering between 25-27% usage

oh, you're using a 4090..hahaha..Mine is measly.

Called it a couple of posts ago, tuned 9800x3d should be roundabout tuned 14900k performance.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Then use dlss, you are probably gpu bound. My 12900k gets 191 at stock so you can't be at 195.


Called it a couple of posts ago, tuned 9800x3d should be roundabout tuned 14900k performance.

Intel doesn't have anything to compare to a 9800X3D. This cpu is 120w only. 120w. Medium size air cooler. use 2009 Opteron heat pipe cooler (wraith prism) to cool this chip.
Tuned 14900K is 253 default haha. 16t e-core off, Say 5.9ghz average p-core oc, 280w. The entire thread is laughable honestly. Close to Intel vs AMD FX thread, but AMD vs Intel is actually against the forum rules, so I've refrained from posting up to this point.

 

[JustBenching]

This cpu is 120w only. 120w. Medium size air cooler. use 2009 Opteron heat pipe cooler (wraith prism) to cool this chip.

Spoiler

Maybe I need to upgrade to a wraith prism cause im hitting 90 to 96c. Do you know where to buy it from? I can find one for 127€ from my local retailer. Don't mind testing it but I ain't paying 130€ for it.

We got another one. 9800x 3d is still faster, but it's still melting

 

[rv8000]

Spoiler

Maybe I need to upgrade to a wraith prism cause im hitting 90 to 96c. Do you know where to buy it from? I can find one for 127€ from my local retailer. Don't mind testing it but I ain't paying 130€ for it.

We got another one. 9800x 3d is still faster, but it's still melting

I’d check that mount tbh, abnormal to see those temps.

NH-D15 with 1 fan running 600 rpm, stock and no PBO, package hit 125w and with multiple background apps, peaked 74c

 

[JustBenching]

I’d check that mount tbh, abnormal to see those temps.

NH-D15 with 1 fan running 600 rpm, stock and no PBO, package hit 125w and with multiple background apps, peaked 74c

Remounted twice, used LM, nope, still scorching.

W1zard is using a d15 in his review, he still hit 87C at stock

 

[rv8000]

Remounted twice, used LM, nope, still scorching.

W1zard is using a d15 in his review, he still hit 87C at stock

If you’re running auto voltages good chances 1.2.0.2a is slamming your vsoc, vddio, and vddg voltages.

Stock vddg is 850mv afaik, at least it use to be, my x870e strix e was slamming 1050mv instead, for absolutely no reason. VSOC and Vddio left on auto will also be unecessary, auto settings some bioses are currently setting some really stupid **** with these voltages.

DDR5 6000-6400 may need vsoc adjustment, but shouldn’t require more than 1.3 to 1.35 for vddio, auto and or expo may be setting it at 1.4v+, which again is unnecessary. Adding lots of heat for nothing.

 

[JustBenching]

If you’re running auto voltages good chances 1.2.0.2a is slamming your vsoc, vddio, and vddg voltages.

Stock vddg is 850mv afaik, at least it use to be, my x870e strix e was slamming 1050mv instead, for absolutely no reason. VSOC and Vddio left on auto will also be unecessary, auto settings some bioses are currently setting some really stupid **** with these voltages.

DDR5 6000-6400 may need vsoc adjustment, but shouldn’t require more than 1.3 to 1.35 for vddio, auto and or expo may be setting it at 1.4v+, which again is unnecessary. Adding lots of heat for nothing.

I have manually set everything 1.25v soc (can't stabilize 6400 with lower than that), 1.35 VDDIO (maybe I can drop this one, haven't tested). I don't think voltage is the issue, since voltage would result in higher power draw. The problem is that even with low power draw temps are high. I've managed to drop temps a bit with liquid metal but im still hitting 85-90c running CPU Z (around 140 watts). At least no more 96c and throttling.

Im gonna get a delid kit and either the high performance IHS or run direct die, haven't decided yet.

But I definitely wouldn't call this an easy to cool chip. In fact the last time I've seen something this bad was with the 8700k- which I also delided.

EG1. With PBO disabled gaming is very manageable as I said before, but MT workloads are not, PBO or not doesn't make a difference, clocks drop below the stock 5225 anyways regardless of PBO.

 

[rv8000]

I have manually set everything 1.25v soc (can't stabilize 6400 with lower than that), 1.35 VDDIO (maybe I can drop this one, haven't tested). I don't think voltage is the issue, since voltage would result in higher power draw. The problem is that even with low power draw temps are high. I've managed to drop temps a bit with liquid metal but im still hitting 85-90c running CPU Z (around 140 watts). At least no more 96c and throttling.

Im gonna get a delid kit and either the high performance IHS or run direct die, haven't decided yet.

But I definitely wouldn't call this an easy to cool chip. In fact the last time I've seen something this bad was with the 8700k- which I also delided.

EG1. With PBO disabled gaming is very manageable as I said before, but MT workloads are not, PBO or not doesn't make a difference, clocks drop below the stock 5225 anyways regardless of PBO.

My experience has been the complete opposite so far. Similar to my 9700x, and not a flaming fireball like my 14700k.

In the few games I’ve played an have installed, my chip is mainly sitting in the mid 50s, will jump to 60s during loading.

 

[JustBenching]

My experience has been the complete opposite so far. Similar to my 9700x, and not a flaming fireball like my 14700k.

In the few games I’ve played an have installed, my chip is mainly sitting in the mid 50s, will jump to 60s during loading.

Can you try Veilguard or TLOU? Cause even without PBO (assuming your GPU can push it) im hitting the same power draw as my 12900k and 80-85C. Most other games are fine but the heavy ones are still pulling power - temps.

 

[rv8000]

Can you try Veilguard or TLOU? Cause even without PBO (assuming your GPU can push it) im hitting the same power draw as my 12900k and 80-85C. Most other games are fine but the heavy ones are still pulling power - temps.

Currently dont own either of those games. The heaviest cpu oriented game I can think of atm that I own may be Helldivers 2 or CP2077.

 

[JustBenching]

Currently dont own either of those games. The heaviest cpu oriented game I can think of atm that I own may be Helldivers 2 or CP2077.

CP (with PBO off) usually stays at 90w so isn't that bad. I have helldivers but haven't gotten around to testing it yet.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Spoiler

Maybe I need to upgrade to a wraith prism cause im hitting 90 to 96c. Do you know where to buy it from? I can find one for 127€ from my local retailer. Don't mind testing it but I ain't paying 130€ for it.

We got another one. 9800x 3d is still faster, but it's still melting

Of course hit hits 90c. Transistor density.

It's about power usage to achieve the similar frame rate, not how hot it gets. So Intel just gets completely smashed in this aspect.

Also, I used the heat sink as an example of cooling required. Not that you should upgrade or not.

And why a 12900K? Why not something that's as current as 9800X3D such as 285K?

 

[JustBenching]

Of course hit hits 90c. Transistor density.

It's about power usage to achieve the similar frame rate, not how hot it gets. So Intel just gets completely smashed in this aspect.

Also, I used the heat sink as an example of cooling required. Not that you should upgrade or not.

And why a 12900K? Why not something that's as current as 9800X3D such as 285K?

Well you said it's very easy to cool which hasn't been my experience, im considering - for the first time since 2017 to delid a chip.

Im testing against a 12900k cause that's what I have, I don't have a 285k available.

Power usage - at least against 12900k - isn't such a huge winning point. It achieves 15 to 25% better performance (depending on the game) at very similar power draw (actually in TLOU the 9800x 3d draws more power, lol) . That's not great since the 900k is a 2021 chip mind you.

And before people comeback with "yeah but you are overclocking the 3d", the below video is stock with -20CO on top, no PBO. Still hits 110 watts

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Well you said it's very easy to cool which hasn't been my experience, im considering - for the first time since 2017 to delid a chip.

Im testing against a 12900k cause that's what I have, I don't have a 285k available.

Power usage - at least against 12900k - isn't such a huge winning point. It achieves 15 to 25% better performance (depending on the game) at very similar power draw (actually in TLOU the 9800x 3d draws more power, lol) . That's not great since the 900k is a 2021 chip mind you.

And before people comeback with "yeah but you are overclocking the 3d", the below video is stock with -20CO on top, no PBO. Still hits 110 watts

Certainly it's easier to move 110w.
It's about 375 BTU/hr. 120w is 410 BTU/hr.
Knowing the rate of dissipation now, as shown above, you can calculate the size of the cooler needed.
A single stage unit probably closer to 800 to 1000 BTU/hr, maybe get 6.2ghz Alder/Raptor core OC.

If we look at the example of 12900K stock 253w is 865 BTU/hr. really difficult to say you can air cool this.

By all means, OC the X3D!! I appreciate this part of it

 

[Womble4lard]

This thread is quite fascinating and scary.

I've been dragging out a i7 2600k gtx1070 and life has just easily plodded along. GTAV, Fortnite, ETS, RDR2, farm sims - that kind of stuff. With black Friday and the end coming to win 10 next year I figured I really should upgrade.
Not going to lie, this post has really scared me off the hassle of it all. Newer CPU's seem to be ovens and windows 11 seems irritating!

 

[JustBenching]

Besides total war : troy, haven't had a game yet where the 12900k was faster (expected I guess?). Even in TLOU the 9800x 3d almost matched my 14900k.

What I've clearly noticed though is that's its way less consistent. It has higher maximums, higher averages, higher lows - and yet the 12900k is more consistent. For example, in cyberpunk tom's dinner run, the 9800x 3d hit a maximum of 173 fps and a minimum of 108. The 12900k hit a max of 131 and a minimum of 97. The 9800x 3d has huge variability between it's lows - averages - maximums.

 

[phanbuey]

Well you said it's very easy to cool which hasn't been my experience, im considering - for the first time since 2017 to delid a chip.

Im testing against a 12900k cause that's what I have, I don't have a 285k available.

Power usage - at least against 12900k - isn't such a huge winning point. It achieves 15 to 25% better performance (depending on the game) at very similar power draw (actually in TLOU the 9800x 3d draws more power, lol) . That's not great since the 900k is a 2021 chip mind you.

And before people comeback with "yeah but you are overclocking the 3d", the below video is stock with -20CO on top, no PBO. Still hits 110 watts

It's way easier to cool than a stock raptor lake.

 

[JustBenching]

It's way easier to cool than a stock raptor lake.

For gaming? Nah.

Stock 14900k in the heaviest game, pulls ~200w, temps are still 65c to 72c. Im using the same u12a.

 

[phanbuey]

For gaming? Nah.

Stock 14900k in the heaviest game, pulls ~200w, temps are still 65c to 72c. Im using the same u12a.

Gaming for me was about the same C wise, but yeah i was pulling double the wattage with the 13700KF.

Definitely notice the consistency thing as well - I think it's actually the chipset or PCI-E. It seems to handle interrupts poorly.... not sure, still playing around with it.

 

[wolf]

So fiddling a bit with the new 9800X3D, so far I'm at -12 curve optimiser all core, and +200mhz offset, and a PPT of 105w - but I suspect I can go higher, single threads boosting tend to pump the temp higher than all core loads. Turned on EXPO and havent touched memory or voltages... should I?

Any tips appreciated, but man so far this thing runs rings around the 5800X3D, easily enabling higher FPS in games where I use DLSS, smoother overall frametimes and much improved shader compilation times during those dedicated waits.

 

[phanbuey]

So fiddling a bit with the new 9800X3D, so far I'm at -12 curve optimiser all core, and +200mhz offset, and a PPT of 105w - but I suspect I can go higher, single threads boosting tend to pump the temp higher than all core loads. Turned on EXPO and havent touched memory or voltages... should I?

Any tips appreciated, but man so far this thing runs rings around the 5800X3D, easily enabling higher FPS in games where I use DLSS, smoother overall frametimes and much improved shader compilation times during those dedicated waits.

Gigabyte has a "high bandwith mode" that you can set with EXPO and usually blows out the TREFI and tightens TRFC -- those two usually make a pretty solid difference.

 

[JustBenching]

So fiddling a bit with the new 9800X3D, so far I'm at -12 curve optimiser all core, and +200mhz offset, and a PPT of 105w - but I suspect I can go higher, single threads boosting tend to pump the temp higher than all core loads. Turned on EXPO and havent touched memory or voltages... should I?

Any tips appreciated, but man so far this thing runs rings around the 5800X3D, easily enabling higher FPS in games where I use DLSS, smoother overall frametimes and much improved shader compilation times during those dedicated waits.

What ram kit do you run? Pump the dram voltages 5mv higher (if they are 1.4, set them to 1.45v) and push trefi to 65535, TRFC1 to 400), that should give you a nice latency reduction. For the core optimizer you need to test AVX workloads for stability, try ycruncher 30 minutes. Make sure you aren't throttling, so remove the PPT limit if you want to properly test stability.

 

[Vario]

When you finish your experiments, could you post a summary table of frame rate per game versus processor used?

 

[JustBenching]

When you finish your experiments, could you post a summary table of frame rate per game versus processor used?

Sure, but im still waiting for new ram kit - wanna run 6600c26 and my current kit can't handle it - needs 1.70 volts

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Well you said it's very easy to cool which hasn't been my experience, im considering - for the first time since 2017 to delid a chip.

Im testing against a 12900k cause that's what I have, I don't have a 285k available.

Power usage - at least against 12900k - isn't such a huge winning point. It achieves 15 to 25% better performance (depending on the game) at very similar power draw (actually in TLOU the 9800x 3d draws more power, lol) . That's not great since the 900k is a 2021 chip mind you.

And before people comeback with "yeah but you are overclocking the 3d", the below video is stock with -20CO on top, no PBO. Still hits 110 watts

you're doing something wrong here..on all of my PC's my GPU usage is always pegged at 99-100%, yours is swaying like a gay waltzing down a cat walk.

EDIT: some of my ingame captures with GPU usage pegged and CPU just doing almost nothing.

HIGH settings (Default for my 4060ti)+DLSS Quality (default also)+2k resolution+fullscreen exclusive

this is the PC specs running the game (i7 12700K)

Intel Core i7 12700K @ 5000 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[5qkbpg] Validated Dump by rootintootinpootin (2024-11-24 13:47:58) - MB: Asus ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI D4 - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr