Gigabyte X870E Aorus Master

[ir_cow]

Actually,

MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI​

Wrong thread?

 

[Ten Shin Han]

Wrong thread?

Maybe.
I expressed my opinion that "Gigabyte X870E Aorus Master" is not so great.
Then I gave a real example to clarify and/or even prove my point.
Hope this helps.

 

[chrcoluk]

The wifi ez stuff is interesting, and M.2 tool free is how it should have bveen from day 1.

 

[csendesmark]

I regret not going with USB and buying the vertical m2 wlan card and the vertical m2 metal casing housing. My mainboard had an unused m2 pcie slot for wlan - without the metal housing and antennas.

The mainboard is the piece of hardware I may keep the longest. I was forced to sell my B550 mainboard because of hardware and software issues. The motivation was to get back some of the money I spend for the mainboard. The newer mainboard has a new warranty period, a longer support period as it's a newer platform, more and better expansion slots and finally to get rid of some of the mainboard progblems. I did not expect that intel fooled me twice with broken software for their WLAN cards on two different mainboards. (A hidden problem I was not aware of at the time of purchase)
It was also very foolish to buy a B550 mainboard at the end of the product life cycle.

I'd like to have an option to plugin some future expansion cards: higher USB port plugin card, harddrive controller, some sort of second graphic card, tv tuner card, whatever, ... oscilloscope measuring card, sound card, ...

If you wish to have good connectivity but have no money for the Threadripper (like me), go for the ProArt X870E or wait for the Gigabyte X870E AERO.
Personally I had the X570S AERO and now I use the X870E ProArt, liked both

The available 24 PCIe 5.0 lanes of from the CPU should be dedicated to most critical functions: [ 1 x GPU PCIe 5.0 x 16 ] ++++ [ 2 x M.2 NVMe Gen5x4 with RAID 0 support ]

I did not see a single X870 board where the second m2 were not shared with the PCIe 16× slot, including your suggested MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI.

Same as mine.

 

[azrael]

I'm curious, what do you need so many PCIe slots for? I mean, I use one of my two additional slots for my 10 Gbps card, but I have no need for the second one.
Most people don't seem to use anything beyond the one for the graphics card these days.

It is limited by the CPU and it's PCIe lane number,
Sadly there is no better alternative, if you want more of those you have to pay up and the Threadripper.
R.I.P. money

I am also interested why would you need 3 PCIe connector, I do why I want mine with 3, but still interested.

Kapone already explained it quite well, but let me add my take on it. Yes, the CPU and the chipset are the limiting factors here (and AMD should really step up here). However, why force the way these limited resources are spent? These days you get tons of USB ports and the number of M.2 slots is on the rise as well. What is more flexible? USB ports on the board or as an add-in card if you need them? M.2 slots on the board or as an add-in card? And those are just two examples.

Personally, I like to have as many PCIe slots as possible. Then *I* can decide what to do with them and also *which* of them to use. Placement of add-in cards can sometimes be important, e.g. with sound cards (yes, I still prefer sound cards over on-board audio regardless of how much it may have gotten better).

Ok, I know what UEFI is, but that wasn't mentioned.

Remove the U and you have EFI, technically only Apple used it in consumer devices, but apparently Intel and HP used it with Itanium as well.
UEFI is just the more commonly used form of EFI.

EFI was the original name, back when Intel and HP developed it for and introduced it with the Itanic ...sorry, Itanium. I'm not really sure why they deemed it necessary to rename it to UEFI. As has been said, UEFI has been used for more than a decade now instead of the BIOS. If you're wondering why it often still looks the same then it's probably because of the CSM (Compatibility Shim Module) which emulates an old-style BIOS.

One thing I'd personally like to be added to future motherboard reviews is ECC support. Most CPUs these days support it (even Intel, again ...sort of) but that doesn't help unless the motherboard supports it as well. For AMD for the longest while only ASUS and ASRock supported it. Now Gigabyte seems to as well. MSI apparently CBA though. Don't know about lesser known brands, but they probably don't as well. Intel is a bit of an outlier here, because although its CPUs (now again) support it you need a motherboard with a specific chipset (thanks for the artificial product segmentation, Intel) and those are far and few between, not to mention insanely expensive.

 

[Broken Processor]

I'm curious, what do you need so many PCIe slots for? I mean, I use one of my two additional slots for my 10 Gbps card, but I have no need for the second one.
Most people don't seem to use anything beyond the one for the graphics card these days.

Audio cards, Nic and an additional mobo usb 2 card in my case.
My dedicated (modded) SB Audigy or Asus Xonar STI 2 still beats any on board audio, additional Nic and on my current board the mobo usb 2.0 headers don't play nice with RGB controllers and Aqua Computer D5 next, Leak Shield & Flow sensor. Not exactly nich use cases and a 500.00 board should manage.

Aqua computer USB Splitty's got all my USB devices connected but I'd get conflict's randomly and the pcie card fixed that I've been considering changing power supply to the Lian Li Edge as this could potentially be an alternative but honestly Lian Li build quality doesn't impress me so I'll need more research and advice on that.

For Sound I could use a usb DAC I've a modded DAC up stairs that's really decent but maybe it's bias but it doesn't sound as good to me plus I loose a bunch of options that I use and I'm definitely not against usb DAC I've a Steel Series Arctus Nova Pro wireless that I use in FPS games and it's brilliant for that but like most headsets it's OK for music and that's fine until I want to listen to hi-res audio files then even my cabbage ears can tell the difference at 24bit 96Hz yes 96hz I can't tell the difference above that.

I'm in the upgrade market soon just waiting on 9950x3d before I decided where I'm going but it seems to me Motherboard's have become very focused and if you're use case falls outside of what they think we need your going to have a difficult time.
Manufacturer's need to remember that gaming boards and Enthusiast boards are two different thing's and I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to do Enthusiast things on a 500.00+ board these days considering I could do it on a 170.00 board less that 10 years ago.

 

[Ten Shin Han]

I did not see a single X870 board where the second m2 were not shared with the PCIe 16× slot, including your suggested MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI.

My explanations included the following copy/paste from MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI specification page:

** USB 40Gbps Type-C ports on the back panel and M2_2 slot share PCIe 5.0 x4 bandwidth. Both run at PCIe 5.0 x2 when a device is installed in the M2_2 slot. You can switch M2_2 to PCIe 5.0 x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the USB 40Gbps Type-C ports
(fair enough, I don't care about USB 40 Gbps)

so yes, the second M.2 Gen5x4 is shared, but only with the USB 4.0, as shown again in the diagram from the official documentation

Hope this helps.

Now what is surprising in the diagram above is: why on earth would anyone connect relatively slow USB 2.0 Type-A devices directly to the CPU ?

My intution is to support technology like Nvidia Reflex:

reflex-low-latency-platform

reflex-low-latency-platform

www.nvidia.com

quote:

Reflex Latency Analyzer detects clicks coming from your mouse and then measures the time it takes for the resulting pixels (i.e. a gun muzzle flash) to change on screen. This type of measurement has been virtually impossible for gamers to do before now, requiring over $7000 in specialized high-speed cameras and equipment.

so connecting the mouse or game controller to the CPU could save few precious micro-seconds (compared if connected to the chipset) that can make difference between life or death in online gaming ??

fascinating !

 

[Hankieroseman]

I am appalled by the rise in pricing. It's the first time in my life I see a $500 motherboard. I thought the F4tality one at $300 was a bit much not too long ago. If you add a top end graphic card, you get a $2500 price tag for both. This used to be the cost of an entire high end gig 4 years ago, monitor included!

I remember buying boards for $50 and building a computer for a $1000 that my friends would buy. They were good boards. Can't remember the brand though.

Let me explain in my words.

there is the pcie express standard. We are not at pcie 5.0. This determines the speed which one pcie lane has.

Mechanically can a long physical expansion slot have 16 pcie lanes. Electrically it can be made 2 or 4 or 8 or 16 (according to the mainboard software and hardware) pcie lanes. The lanes also can be from the type pcie 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or pcie 5.0

edit: TheLostSwede is of course right. I saw recently a mainboard which had electrically two lanes of pcie express 3 on an expansion slot. I was unprecise

Just because you see on certain mainboard a long physical expansion slot, it can still be theses days sadly pcie 3.0 with 4 lanes. I would have expected 16 lanes with pcie 4.0

Summary: physical slot vs electrical usable pcie express amout of pcie express lanes

--



I regret not going with USB and buying the vertical m2 wlan card and the vertical m2 metal casing housing. My mainboard had an unused m2 pcie slot for wlan - without the metal housing and antennas.

The mainboard is the piece of hardware I may keep the longest. I was forced to sell my B550 mainboard because of hardware and software issues. The motivation was to get back some of the money I spend for the mainboard. The newer mainboard has a new warranty period, a longer support period as it's a newer platform, more and better expansion slots and finally to get rid of some of the mainboard progblems. I did not expect that intel fooled me twice with broken software for their WLAN cards on two different mainboards. (A hidden problem I was not aware of at the time of purchase)
It was also very foolish to buy a B550 mainboard at the end of the product life cycle.

I'd like to have an option to plugin some future expansion cards: higher USB port plugin card, harddrive controller, some sort of second graphic card, tv tuner card, whatever, ... oscilloscope measuring card, sound card, ...

An old bifurcation map would be useful to show which lanes go where.

 

[MicroUnC]

Realtek ALC1220 Codec AGAIN!!!

 

[ir_cow]

Realtek ALC1220 Codec AGAIN!!!

ALC4080 is basically just a rebranded 1220. Think nothing of it

 

[csendesmark]

My explanations included the following copy/paste from MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI specification page:

** USB 40Gbps Type-C ports on the back panel and M2_2 slot share PCIe 5.0 x4 bandwidth. Both run at PCIe 5.0 x2 when a device is installed in the M2_2 slot. You can switch M2_2 to PCIe 5.0 x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the USB 40Gbps Type-C ports
(fair enough, I don't care about USB 40 Gbps)

so yes, the second M.2 Gen5x4 is shared, but only with the USB 4.0, as shown again in the diagram from the official documentation

View attachment 373088

Hope this helps.

Now what is surprising in the diagram above is: why on earth would anyone connect relatively slow USB 2.0 Type-A devices directly to the CPU ?

My intution is to support technology like Nvidia Reflex:

reflex-low-latency-platform

reflex-low-latency-platform

www.nvidia.com

quote:

Reflex Latency Analyzer detects clicks coming from your mouse and then measures the time it takes for the resulting pixels (i.e. a gun muzzle flash) to change on screen. This type of measurement has been virtually impossible for gamers to do before now, requiring over $7000 in specialized high-speed cameras and equipment.

so connecting the mouse or game controller to the CPU could save few precious micro-seconds (compared if connected to the chipset) that can make difference between life or death in online gaming ??

fascinating !

Now I see it better,
Why MSI not posting the block diagram in their manuals... shame.
Same goes to ASUS.

 

[Upgrayedd]

This fan stuck on the top of the mobo looks pretty cheezy to say it nicely. It seems like they skimped on R&D.

Better something than nothing. I imagine this is because everyone thinks their boards don't need airflow anymore. Glass panel cases with no real directed airflow over the board and the popularity of AIOs is neglect to the board.

 

[LittleBro]

Wow, 16 VRM phases for CPU, each rated for 110A.

Theoretically, it should provide support for delivery up to 1760 A while even the craziest OCed Zen 4/5 CPUs would consume less than 300A, otherwise they would be kind of "uncoolable".

I'm curious, what do you need so many PCIe slots for? I mean, I use one of my two additional slots for my 10 Gbps card, but I have no need for the second one.
Most people don't seem to use anything beyond the one for the graphics card these days.

What if I want to leverage faster ethernet speeds but my integrated NIC only supports 1 Gbps? I buy 2.5 Gbps PCIe expansion card.
What if I want to use proper sound card instead of that shitty integrated solution? I buy dedicated sound card which requires PCIe x1 port.
What if I have only 2 M.2 ports on my mobo and I want to have more without changing mobo and reainstalling OS? There's PCIe to NVMe M.2 adapter for it.
What if I want to have second RAID array for my M.2 SSDs? There's PCIe to NVMe M.2 bifurcation adapter for it.
What if I want to install AI accelerator to my NPU-less computer?
What if I want to use another Thunderbolt or USB expension card, or even SATA controller card?
What if ...

Where your requirements for PCIe ports end, don't end requirements for PCIe ports of others.

The mainboard is the piece of hardware I may keep the longest.

You can't explain this to Intel users. They can't imagine about possibility to use Zen 3 (2021) in AM4 mobo with B350 chipset (2017).

I was forced to sell my B550 mainboard because of hardware and software issues. The motivation was to get back some of the money I spend for the mainboard. The newer mainboard has a new warranty period, a longer support period as it's a newer platform, more and better expansion slots and finally to get rid of some of the mainboard progblems. I did not expect that intel fooled me twice with broken software for their WLAN cards on two different mainboards. (A hidden problem I was not aware of at the time of purchase)
It was also very foolish to buy a B550 mainboard at the end of the product life cycle.

I actually don't have problems with Intel I225-V rev. 2.0 on my B550 mobo. Took several driver updates but no problems with sudden network connection drops.
Intel users usually don't understand this

I'd like to have an option to plugin some future expansion cards: higher USB port plugin card, harddrive controller, some sort of second graphic card, tv tuner card, whatever, ... oscilloscope measuring card, sound card, ...

This ^^. It's about damn flexibility and always was. Amen to that.

Also it's diappointing that they allow no flexibility in connecting the Promontory chips. Each chip on its own PCIe x4 port would enable more possibilities for expansion (even if Gen5 bandwidth would be wasted).

This would be very nice to have feature, but would require adjustments in IOD chip, of which we know is obsolete (reused from Zen 4).
Remember, though, when you divide lanes, you must implement PCIe switch which increases latencies a bit. But who cares about latencies stuff connected to chipset ...

Biggest problem now is CPU <> chipset interconnection not utilizing PCIe 5.0 speed.

Actually,

MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI​

M2_1 & M2_2 slots
• Supports up to PCIe 5.0 x4 (For Ryzen™ 9000/ 7000 Series processors)
• Supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 (For Ryzen™ 8000 Series processors)

* The M2_2 slot will be unavailable when using Ryzen™ 8500/ 8300 Series processors.
** USB 40Gbps Type-C ports on the back panel and M2_2 slot share PCIe 5.0 x4 bandwidth. Both run at PCIe 5.0 x2 when a device is installed in the M2_2 slot. You can switch M2_2 to PCIe 5.0 x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the USB 40Gbps Type-C ports (fair enough, I don't care about USB 40 Gbps)
*** PCI_E3 slot will run at x2 speed when installing device in the M2_3 slot. You can switch PCI_E3 slot to x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the M2_3 slot.
**** Please refer to the manual for M.2 SSD heatsink restrictions

et voilà !

This is actually proper approach. USB 4.0 should be optional, meaning available to be disabled. But then, well, X870 would be same as B650E ... ehm, not good for marketing. Hey, you must have USB 4.0! Even if you don't need it, you want it. Even if you don't want it ... but that feeling! X800/B800/A800 series AMD chipsets are a joke.