Windows 11 24H2 is driving people to Linux

[lexluthermiester]

Android is not a desktop OS, that is supported by AMD and Intel.

My Dell Vostro laptop, with an Intel Corei7 CPU, would disagree with you as it currently has Android 13 installed and working perfectly on it. Additionally, every Android TV box out there would also disagree. You were saying?

Right.

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The direct link from microsoft THEMSELVES is the far more credible source of info. So whatever you are showing is wrong.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

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Owners of Ryzen 2000 CPUs will be fine. It doesn't exactly need state of the art hardware to run.

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Is Microsoft pointing a gun to your head and saying "use Windows"? Then no. We all use Windows because the commercial software market adopted it way back then and hasn't let go of it. I doubt anyone truly loves Windows, but it is what it is. And people won't leave it for an even more convoluted "free software solution", Linux has been around forever and it's safe to say that the only way it goes mainstream is if Microsoft ceases to exist overnight. I just have to call you out on this though, it seems you are fiercely opposed to Windows 11 but you have not given it an honest shot, not even remotely so.

I use Windows 11 every day at work, on an Adler Lake Pro-grade laptop. The experience leaves much to be desired, as every single week (no, I'm not exaggerating), I experience some sort of problem. Most often, it's simply docking the machine. This past week, I had to do a complete shutdown of the laptop with a power button long-press (thanks, fastboot), just so it would run the displays and accept input from the mouse and keyboard. The fun part is, I sometimes have to do this even when I haven't disconnected from the dock. It will simply occur when I'm away for a while. Other times, it will fake me out by driving the displays, but not the mouse and keyboard, or, it will wake up just fine, but move all my Windows to somewhere else from when I locked it last. I suppose we could blame the dock or the laptop here, but this is all corporate hardware, not bargain stuff.

I also frequently experience UI issues--my personal favorite is when I try to maximize a window and sometimes Windows ignores the existence of the taskbar (maximizing content underneath it), making maximize (or double clicking the bottom edge of window) useless until a reboot or restart of the Explorer task. Or when I do a type to search for a local document, but some issue connecting to Bing causes it to just sit there with a blank screen. I could go on.

Now, does Windows actually crash? No, I can't say that it does, but day-to-day usability is rather poor. Maybe the core is stable, but the fit and finish is about as bad as I can remember in any Windows release. It should be a very solid OS at this point in its lifecycle, but it still leaves much to be desired, IMO.

I'm not even getting into the stuff MS tries to foist on its users, even resorting to popups, like a bad website. No, I don't use Windows 11 at home.

 

[3valatzy]

The direct link from microsoft THEMSELVES is the far more credible source of info. So whatever you are showing is wrong.

Windows 11 does not support Ryzen 2000 series APUs !

 

[LabRat 891]

2nd generation Ryzen is only 7 year-old (4 year if you count the initial release date for that OS), and yet it is unsupported. Don't think it was too early and immature to include so recent products among the unsupported ?

Regardless, "unsupported" doesn't mean what most people think it means.
It actually means "We don't care if it works or doesn't, it's not our priority", not that it doesn't work.

As I recall, the 'hypermodern' hardware requirements for 11, revolve entirely around unique system identifiers (TPM req.) and 'security' (UEFI changes).
They're not *actual* "requirements" unlike Compareexchange128, that truncated 1st and 2nd generation AMD64 CPUs from supporting any WinOSx64 past 8.0.


I'm not sure why 'official support' is even an issue.
For enthusiasts, gamers, power users, etc.
Windows 10 still performs better than 11, even with all the patches, updates, and scheduler changes.

For the average consumer and most businesses, it's more-affordable (overall) to replace whole machine(s), than deal with the headaches of deploying an OS upgrade and ensuring *actual* compatibility ("Official Support" or not).

 

[Hecate91]

It is easily removed. Just delete it and it's associated service..

I think the point is the end user shouldn't have to go through registry hacks, or find ways to bypass things to make w11 suck less, besides the average user isn't going to do any of that anyways. I find it interesting when people look at it from only an enthusiast point of view, the same enthusiasts act like Linux can never be an option because it also at times needs workarounds or doing things differently.

....that is the only thing they got right. But that isn't true anymore. Android anyone? But I digress...

It is still true in the desktop space, Windows still has the majority of market share.

Wrong.

Windows processor requirements Windows 11 supported AMD processors

This specification details the AMD processors that can be used with Windows 11 customer systems that include Windows products, including custom images.

learn.microsoft.com

Read, learn.

See what I'm saying folks?

Except MS doesn't even know what they want with system requirements, they're showing ads to buy a new PC in W10 while at the same time allowing you to install W11 on "unsupported" hardware. MS could easily put up additional blocks if they wanted to but so far they've only done it with POPCNT.

 

[LabRat 891]

Windows 11 does not support Ryzen 2000 series APUs !

 

[lexluthermiester]

Except MS doesn't even know what they want with system requirements, they're showing ads to buy a new PC in W10 while at the same time allowing you to install W11 on "unsupported" hardware. MS could easily put up additional blocks if they wanted to but so far they've only done it with POPCNT.

No doubt on that one. I recently installed 24H2 on a Ryzen 1600X with TPM and secureboot disabled without any bypasses enabled(fresh virgin ISO from microsoft themselves), it didn't complain at all. I don't think even microsoft themselves knows where they're drawing the line.

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Right? No, Windows 11 isn't supported at all by second gen Ryzen assets and that's why AMD made drivers for all of them.. No support at all...
(/s )

 

[3valatzy]

 

[LabRat 891]

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Fair.

Though, please see:

I don't think even microsoft themselves knows where they're drawing the line.

and

Regardless, "unsupported" doesn't mean what most people think it means.
It actually means "We don't care if it works or doesn't, it's not our priority", not that it doesn't work.

As I recall, the 'hypermodern' hardware requirements for 11, revolve entirely around unique system identifiers (TPM req.) and 'security' (UEFI changes).
They're not *actual* "requirements" unlike Compareexchange128, that truncated 1st and 2nd generation AMD64 CPUs from supporting any WinOSx64 past 8.0.

 

[lexluthermiester]

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Weird. Like I said just above, microsoft themselves don't seem to know where the line is. However, the fact remains, Windows 11 officially supports second gen Ryzen.

 

[LabRat 891]

Weird. Like I said just above, microsoft themselves don't seem to know where the line is. However, the fact remains, Windows 11 officially supports second gen Ryzen.

I am genuinely curious as to the 'reasoning' (BS or not) that MSFT decided Zen 1.0 CPUs and APUs got truncated from "official support".
Zen+ isn't really different (AFAIK) and all the Zen+ CPUs and APUs are officially supported.

I'd be more inclined to believe it a 'marketing strategy' than actual practical-technical concern(s).

 

[lexluthermiester]

I am genuinely curious as to the 'reasoning' (BS or not) that MSFT decided Zen 1.0 CPUs and APUs got truncated from "official support".

My guess is the iffy TPM2.0 support. A lot of the first gen Ryzen boards & platforms(laptops) only had TPM1.2 support with no way to update.

I'd be more inclined to believe it a 'marketing strategy' than actual practical-technical concern(s).

Oh, it's all moose-muffins. TPM2.0 IS crackable, it's almost trivial. SecureBoot isn't very secure. The limitations microsoft is using are a combination of a system of control and an effort to sell new PC's, very little more. It's not really about user security no matter what they say.

 

[Dr. Dro]

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Absolutely meaningless

 

[LabRat 891]

My guess is the iffy TPM2.0 support. A lot of the first gen Ryzen boards & platforms(laptops) only had TPM1.2 support with no way to update.

Looking at the readout from the compatibility tool, I'm guessing the "CPU Compatibility" is just comparing to a plaintext list?
-given, the TPM is a separate 'requirement' and there is no 'drilldown' of missing/included CPU features/instructions?

Absolutely meaningless

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Poignant.

 

[Onasi]

I think the chap is mixing the two things together - what MS SAYS in their requirements/update checker tool and what is ACTUALLY supported or not, like the decision to drop CPUs without SSE 4.2. The first one is basically completely irrelevant except as a guidance for the OEMs - as demonstrated, you can absolutely run Win 11 on “unsupported” CPUs, they will get updates, drivers are fine and the system will function no problem. In fact, the requirements are different between Consumer versions and Enterprise ones, the latter basically confirming that there is nothing stopping one from using the OS.
The SSE requirement is, on another hand, very real, but, as I said, the hardware that is affected is ancient by any standard and it is absolutely not an issue.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Poignant.

It's really pointless to bicker like this. Windows 11 works perfectly fine on anything reasonably modern, Microsoft likely has no intention of changing that - if your PC is from 2012 or so it will run Windows 11 and there's nothing that's going to be missing in the user experience.

On this system, I can use Windows Hello, PIN, biometrics, none of that requires the TPM. Secure Boot support is there and as a result, the rootkit protection and stuff all work. Subject to change? Sure! Who cares anyway... once Windows truly isn't viable on this hardware (it's no speed demon, but a 14 core processor isn't exactly starving for performance so badly that it won't run Windows itself at an acceptable speed), I can just stay on a build that works or then - finally move to Linux...

 

[lexluthermiester]

Looking at the readout from the compatibility tool, I'm guessing the "CPU Compatibility" is just comparing to a plaintext list?
-given, the TPM is a separate 'requirement' and there is no 'drilldown' of missing/included CPU features/instructions?

Your guess is as good as mine. I've a little bit given up trying to figure out the nitwitted nonsense coming out of microsoft about the limitations and bypass them all as a rule.

It's really pointless to bicker like this.

True..

Secure Boot support is there and as a result, the rootkit protection and stuff all work.

Not so true, but mostly. Like a lot of all of this nonsense, it depends.

 

[Nhonho]

I will use Windows 11 LTSC when Windows 10 support ends.

 

[Onasi]

Like, MS support list doesn’t even make sense functionally - like what does “support” even mean in this case for DIY users? It’s clearly not “this hardware won’t boot”. Despite their posturing prior to 11 release about them totally being able to not issue updates on unsupported hardware that obviously didn’t happen and will not happen. So why even bother? What, if I install Win 11 on an “unsupported” CPU I wouldn’t be able to ask for “support” on official MS forums? Oh noes, whatever shall I do?

This honestly was just a fucking PR stumble on MS part, as usual. They should have just made that “supported PC” list a simple requirement from system integrators and straight up left the SysReqs for DIY applications unchanged from 10. Instead, we get hysterical outbursts like in this thread. They are genuinely their worst enemy.

 

[LabRat 891]

It's really pointless to bicker like this.

Oh. I forgot...
-Not everyone defaults to 'jovial' or assumes they're being laughed with, not at.

Windows 11 works perfectly fine on anything reasonably modern,

I entered this thread commenting about my last (poor) experience w/ 11, on a 4600G and 6500XT. Both, modern, fully- and officially- supported hardware.
I've also ran 11 for short stints on a 5600(non-x) and a 5800X3D, back before 24H1.
So, hard disagree from me, (and others' experiences in this thread; both, professional and personal it looks)

Microsoft likely has no intention of changing that - if your PC is from 2012 or so it will run Windows 11 and there's nothing that's going to be missing in the user experience.

On this system, I can use Windows Hello, PIN, biometrics, none of that requires the TPM. Secure Boot support is there and as a result, the rootkit protection and stuff all work. Subject to change? Sure!

Fair enough for those that actually want/want to like 11 or, have a legitimate need to 'accustom themselves to it'.

Speaking towards "subject to change", that's precisely the reason I started using LTSC releases. Feature Updates and major build revisions would break stuff (TBF, usually 3rd party software/drivers)

 

[Dr. Dro]

Not so true, but mostly. Like a lot of all of this nonsense, it depends.

Well, anything that can bypass Secure Boot's protections, is long since within your machine IMO... not a great cause for alarm.

I will use Windows 11 LTSC when Windows 10 support ends.

The reason to use LTSC is mostly because it already comes pre-debloated. And I actually "re-bloat" my build a little bit, like adding back the Microsoft Store and AppX support. These things are essential for Windows today.

Oh. I forgot...
-Not everyone defaults to 'jovial' or assumes they're being laughed with, not at.


I entered this thread commenting about my last (poor) experience w/ 11, on a 4600G and 6500XT. Both, modern, fully- and officially- supported hardware.
I've also ran 11 for short stints on a 5600(non-x) and a 5800X3D, back before 24H1.
So, hard disagree from me, (and others' experiences in this thread; both, professional and personal it looks)

Fair enough for those that actually want/want to like 11 or, have a legitimate need to 'accustom themselves to it'.

Speaking towards "subject to change", that's precisely the reason I started using LTSC releases. Feature Updates and major build revisions would break stuff (TBF, usually 3rd party software/drivers)

I mean, let's clear the air and avoid misunderstandings, really, it's fine. For now, whatever floats a person's boat, know what I mean? 10 still works and will continue to work for some time. There's no need to rush to, nor completely write off Win11. I find it funny how a lot of folks jump on a bandwagon though (not saying you did) and reject change, the interesting is that a lot of the same folks held negative views on Windows 10 and stuck to 7 to the bitter end, and before 7, they also stuck to XP and so on... always carried by absolute necessity against their will, just to find out after all this time, that the cake wasn't so bad after all

 

[Onasi]

And I actually "re-bloat" my build a little bit, like adding back the Microsoft Store and AppX support. These things are essential for Windows today.

I mean, it’s really not a big issue seeing as it’s just one PS command away for that, last I checked.

Speaking towards "subject to change", that's precisely the reason I started using LTSC releases. Feature Updates and major build revisions would break stuff (TBF, usually 3rd party software/drivers)

I will actually defend MS on this - any large feature update is in testing for almost a year prior to broad channel release. Anyone who writes software as a business and cannot be assed to check whether their shit works properly on the next major release of the single most used desktop OS is absolutely incompetent and MS isn’t at fault here. Not to mention that properly made software should NOT break on an OS update anyway.

 

[LabRat 891]

Like, MS support list doesn’t even make sense functionally - like what does “support” even mean in this case for DIY users? It’s clearly not “this hardware won’t boot”. Despite their posturing prior to 11 release about them totally being able to not issue updates on unsupported hardware that obviously didn’t happen and will not happen. So why even bother? What, if I install Win 11 on an “unsupported” CPU I wouldn’t be able to ask for “support” on official MS forums? Oh noes, whatever shall I do?

This honestly was just a fucking PR stumble on MS part, as usual. They should have just made that “supported PC” list a simple requirement from system integrators and straight up left the SysReqs for DIY applications unchanged from 10. Instead, we get hysterical outbursts like in this thread. They are genuinely their worst enemy.

It means
"When we or a 3rd party we work with, eventually break your system/config
you are ENTIRELY on your own, and cannot hold us or our partners in any way, shape, or form liable
even when it is entirely our or our partners' fault." (See: MSFT Crowdstrike outage)

It's a CYA and a means to reduce 'support load'.

 

[lexluthermiester]

What, if I install Win 11 on an “unsupported” CPU I wouldn’t be able to ask for “support” on official MS forums? Oh noes, whatever shall I do?

Right? Only people completely not technically inclined at all visit microsoft's own support site.

These things are essential for Windows today.

Not really. I haven't and don't foresee ever needing them..

stuck to 7 to the bitter end

I was one of those until Windows 11 rolled around and the Windows devs made a number of changes that either took things back to the "Windows 7"ish methodology or got close enough that it was usable and doable. As a Windows 7 diehard, I'm actually very pleased with the base functionality of Win11, of course minus all the bloat and privacy invasion crap.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

2nd generation Ryzen is Zen+. Microsoft didn't ban Zen+. I can confirm that for 11, as I tested my Ryzen 5 2600, before putting in the Ryzen 7 3700X into my A320 build.