2 sticks is better then 4 sticks?

[9087125]

Honestly given how ridiculously complicated out computers are.... Like everything in the world of tech and gadgets its a given you must test it yourself to find out whats what. You simply can never assume anything. Always take the reviews and evidence as a guide to the right path, but you must test things for the final say. Since your system is virtually guaranteed different from all others.

I read enough evidence on AM5 that i steered away from 4 sticks, just not interested in headaches, got enough already. 2 sticks of 32GB 6000, tested in back n forth at stock 4800 vs 6000, nothing couldn't spot any noticeable difference in speed anywhere apart from poor post times, so I keep it stock. Then upgraded to 2x 48 4800 and kept it. Hopefully we get 64gb sticks soon as my photography eats ram like a fat kid consumes donuts.

 

[freeagent]

Nobody said anything about AM5 or DDR5.. this is about AM4.

 

[inquisitor1]

Good read for the inquisitor: https://www.igorslab.de/en/performa...s-in-theory-and-practice-with-cyberpunk-2077/

thanks finally some easy to understand graphs. they dont show much difference for the headache for me.

I dont see such a big difference between 2x2r vs 4x2r

this video

guy says the 4 sticks would run faster but you could oc the 2 sticks better, which im not certain ill do. I have a pos b550m bottom barrel mb anyway.

I think ill just get another 2x16

too much pita for little return and then resell my 2x16.

 

[A Computer Guy]

yea, saw that and thats what I commented about. I still dont understand what the bottom line is. 27min of nothing for me.


seriously, I understand none of this. not everyone is a pc geek.

keep it simple please for the idiot in the room

2x32 3600, or 4x16 3600?

The simple matter is if you don't have a lot of confidence in tweaking your ram, and just intend to plug and play, it's hard to go wrong with a two stick installation (outside some models of Corsair RAM when it comes to DDR4). DDR4-3600 is most likely to work (but not guaranteed) in which case you can downclock them to 3200MT/s.

I think ill just get another 2x16

The issue with just adding another set (especially after some time has passed since you got your original kit) is the vendor may have changed the underlying IC's without changing the model number. So in going this route you may encounter compatibility issues.

The bottom line is the best out-of-box experience with AM4 is just 2 sticks at the capacity and speed you want. (and some would say avoiding Corsair DDR4)

 

[freeagent]

It almost neve pays to deviate from 1:1 on AM4. The only real time when you might see "some" benefit to running your ram faster than the IF is for fringe memory benchmarking, and you have to be at the limits of everything.

Edit:

FWIW my DDR4 3200 has been to DDR 4400, more than a few times..

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

So...the OP seems to want this put simply. Let me start then with the disclaimer that your particular setup is entirely going to drive this. That means that nothing told to you before hand is a rule, so much as a general practice which is true most of the time.

Now the fun bits:
1) Memory has default timings and "overclock" timings. This is the difference between installing the sticks and getting a default minimum setting and a JEDEC standard "overclocked" speed. It's not so much an overclock, but it's easiest to think of this as overclocking the speed (frequency) and other settings to get the performance that you bought on the package.
2) Memory can be single or dual rank. If you have chips on one side, it's guaranteed to be single rank. If you've got chips on both sides you'll need to read the specifications to determine if it's dual rank. The simplest way to see this is how the chips are electrically organized, where dual rank is generally easiest to get large memory amounts with, but single rank is usually easier to get better timings on. Again, you can get dual ranks that outstrip single rank timing...so usually is the key here. See the site here for an explanation: Memory 4 Less tutorial

3) Your memory controller determines how well your memory performs. This might sound stupid to say, but this is why some users can overclock RAM to 3600 CL16 and others can only get 3200 CL 16. This is like all other overclocking, where performance is not guaranteed.
4) Speaking of...what does 3200 CL 16 mean? 3200 is the frequency that the chips can be accessed...so 3200 accesses per second theoretically. As the RAM isn't magic, there are a certain number of those potential accesses that need to be reserved. Think of it like a car, where every so often you have to stop to refill the tank. That's where the CL 16 comes in. The higher the frequency, and the lower the timings, the more data that the RAM can transfer.


So...with the 4 above items in mind...we cannot answer your question accurately. What I can give you is what is possible. Purchasing a pair of single rank 32 GB sticks will offer you the greatest likelihood of being able to drive them at high frequencies and low timings. Purchasing "whatever" sticks, this is probably your best bet. If your goal is simply to have the huge pool of RAM for the lowest price you can purchase 4x16 RAM sticks, but you may have to run them at speeds below advertised. Your mileage will vary, period. The only way to know exactly what is guaranteed to work with your specific board is to go to the manufacturer's site, and look up the compatible RAM for your particular board. Literally everything else is a gamble...so we cannot magic an accurate answer knowing only the chipset and processor, because that's like trying to solve a Jeopardy puzzle with the letters X and Z that didn't appear in any words, and 16+ boxes on the screen. It can theoretically be done...but it's not right until somebody checks.

 

[Vayra86]

View attachment 371429
My sticks can can 3600cl14 x4 or 4000cl16 x4 stock in BIOS choice settings , x4 needs more V at 4000cl16 , like 1.55 , but is fine for benching , but the star is 3600cl14 x4 ,1.45 default , but can be under clock to 1.4 or less , if I run CPU stock .

Lovely, max capacity without compromise, except you do lose a quarter of the speed lmao

'No compromise' They might have been better off saying 'works as intended' or something

 

[Bill_Bright]

I find it somewhat amazing all the "ifs" and "mays" and other similar qualifiers for advising the OP dump his current 2 x 16GB sticks and put them on a shelf to collect dust and spend even more money for 2 x 32GB sticks.

For example (just to illustrate, not to point fingers at anyone),

The issue with just adding another set (especially after some time has passed since you got your original kit) is the vendor may have changed the underlying IC's without changing the model number. So in going this route you may encounter compatibility issues.

While technically true, the real facts are, and the most likely outcome is the two new sticks will play perfectly well with the first two - with proper homework before buying, of course.

Contrary to what some still apparently firmly believe, RAM manufacturing technologies and techniques have improved tremendously over the years. In years past (many years past), for example, manufacturers used to test every stick before leaving the factory to ensure it worked AND met published specs. Even further, they used to test and pair matching sticks together just to ensure compatibility. Then they packaged the matched sticks together so they could then market them as "dual-channel" kits.

Fast forward 10 - 15 years or so and not only have we (humans) learned to produce the raw materials used to make memory chips as pure and imperfection-free as humanly possible (without divine intervention), we have also learned to use those materials to produce memory modules that adhere to published specs just as precisely.

This insures the specs of each stick coming off the assembly line is so close to published specs, within such tight tolerances, manufacturers no longer need to test each stick for accuracy. And they no longer need to test and match pairs for dual (or triple or quad) channel. They still pair, package and market them as dual-channel kits, but that is for marketing and logistics (inventory, shipping, etc.) reasons only - not compatibility.

Not only that, because Samsung and Micron and the other IC makers have learned to so precisely produce ICs to published specs, we (consumers) don't even have to make sure we pair RAM with the exact same brand and models numbers like we used to.

Why?

Again, because they manufacture so precisely to published specs. BUT ALSO, contrary to what some apparently want us to believe, motherboard, CPU and memory controller manufacturers have not been sitting on their thumbs the last 10, 15+ years either. Memory controllers have significantly improved such that they are very capable of enabling sticks with slightly different deviations from the published specs to work just fine together - even in dual, triple or quad channel.

Are there exceptions? Of course! Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be exceptions. For this reason, I still recommend using matching sticks for each pair whenever possible. But odds are greatly in the user's favor that when adding a second pair, as long as the published specs are compatible with the board, they will work just fine - even if different speeds, model numbers and even brand. The system will simply toggle down to the slowest speed, most likely with no problems whatsoever.

Note this is why, for years now, it has not been necessary to buy RAM that is listed on the motherboard's QVL. We have only needed to buy RAM that matches the specs of listed RAM to ensure compatibility.

We've done it dozens of times here - even mixing a pair of Crucial with a pair of Corsair, and Corsair with Kingston, and other combinations with no compatibility or stability issues at all.

One significant disclaimer - we use default settings and we make sure the specs match specs of RAM listed on the motherboard's QVL. If doing extreme overclocking, I still recommend buying all identical RAM you think you will ever need (or want) at once. And by extreme, I mean when using "custom" settings - and not one of the preset options provided by many motherboard makers through the BIOS Setup Menu.

So yes, there are some "ifs" that "may" cause problems when using 4 sticks instead of 2. But I contend that is more likely to happen on cheap motherboards from manufacturers nobody has ever heard of, using cheap sticks from RAM makers that nobody has heard of either.

@inquisitor1 - you can go out to the Crucial site and run their system scanner. It will scan your system then provide a list of compatible RAM. You do NOT have to buy Crucial. You can go with another brand with the same specs as Crucial's and feel confident it will work.

HOWEVER, if you buy listed Crucial RAM directly from Crucial, they guarantee compatibility. And last time I bought directly from them for my laptop, it was actually $10 less than Amazon was selling the exact same Crucial RAM! Yeah, I would have got free shipping from Amazon but the $10 savings made up for that - and yes, the added Crucial RAM worked perfectly fine with the exiting Hynix RAM that came with the laptop - and in Dual channel mode too.

 

[A Computer Guy]

OP wanted/needed simple. That's what I gave. ( Not that there is anything wrong with walls of text. )
Good luck OP.

 

[inquisitor1]

I thought it was going to be a big difference, but if crashes were more of a concern then I think ill get 2x32gb, but as I saw the graph from
@SiggiTheHun https://www.igorslab.de/en/performa...s-in-theory-and-practice-with-cyberpunk-2077/

not that huge a difference between 2 and 4 with performance. my bigger concern is whether 4 will run its specced speed and wont crash. ill try to read more but all articles are technical and I need layman and graphs better for idiots like me. but from the link shown, not a big difference for me.

 

[harm9963]

View attachment 371429
My sticks can can 3600cl14 x4 or 4000cl16 x4 stock in BIOS choice settings , x4 needs more V at 4000cl16 , like 1.55 , but is fine for benching , but the star is 3600cl14 x4 ,1.45 default , but can be under clock to 1.4 or less , if I run CPU stock .

 

[inquisitor1]

how much ram is there? 64gb?

 

[Calenhad]

The main issue with DDR4 and 2 sticks vs 4 sticks is that the ranks are also important. The simplest way to look at ranks for DDR4 (and DDR3) ram is how many sides have chips on them. One rank = one side of chips. (DDR5 is completely different). Ignoring memory speed for one second, what you want is a minimum of 2 ranks per channel. So that rank interleaving is active to maximise performance per clock.
For optimal performance that means either 4x single rank memory or 2x dual rank memory of whatever size you want/can find. For stability reasons 2x dual rank memory is generally viewed as superior to 4x single rank. BUT in many cases that is purely hypothetical since it is possible to achieve identical performance with either setup. The Gamers Nexus video is showing the performance difference between 2x 1R ram vs 4x 1R memory, hence with and without rank interleaving active, so please just ignore all this technobabble.

TLDR version:
Cheapest option: Find an as closely matching 2x16GB set as possible to what you already have. If that is stable at the same settings as your existing set that is the most cost effective upgrade path. This might not work for "reasons", hence why I would buy from a place with a proper return policy. If your current set is single rank* there is a higher probability of success.
Keep it simple option: Buy a set of two dual rank sticks of ram in the capacity you want, for performance and stability reasons. Make sure it is a made for AMD set.
Max compatibility option: Set of two single rank sticks, otherwise as above. Just with slower performance in certain situations.

*Feel free to download ZenTimings and post a screenshot of your current memory, for a more detailed answer regarding option one.

how much ram is there? 64gb?

Apparently I can't quote a message with only attachments. What @harm9963 attached screenshots of in the post above yours is 4x16GB single rank ram for a total of 64GB (look at the bottom of the ZenTimings image and you can see the details for one stick in the dropdown menu). From the product code in that image they are probably running two sets of these.

I ran the same CPU and motherboard with this ram and I was never able to get it stable above 1900 FCLK. If the above overclock is 100% stable at 2000 that is one hell of a unicorn cpu. Do not expect results like those lol

 

[Noci]

Just for your info, I'm running 4 sticks of G-Skill ( 2 times a F4-3600C16D-32GVKC set ) and have no stabillity problems. One set from 2019 and one set from 2023.

The DIMM's of the sets are 16Gb each and as far as I know built from Hynix 8Gbit CJR and so 4 times a dual rank module (Never used Thaiphoon Burner to verify though ) .

I stick to the XMP settings and didn't fool around with the timings (some OC's here will call me chicken ) and it works for me.

I can only advise to use an additional 'simular specs' 2 x 16 Gb set as you have (either single rank or dual rank) like explained in that article from Igor's Lab, to prevent from compatility issues.

 

[Toothless]

Just for your info, I'm running 4 sticks of G-Skill ( 2 times a F4-3600C16D-32GVKC set ) and have no stabillity problems. One set from 2019 and one set from 2023.

The DIMM's of the sets are 16Gb each and as far as I know built from Hynix 8Gbit CJR and so 4 times a dual rank module (Never used Thaiphoon Burner to verify though ) .

I stick to the XMP settings and didn't fool around with the timings (some OC's here will call me chicken ) and it works for me.

View attachment 374788

I can only advise to use an additional 'simular specs' 2 x 16 Gb set as you have (either single rank or dual rank) like explained in that article from Igor's Lab, to prevent from compatility issues.

It works for you because you got lucky in the IMC.

 

[freeagent]

I don't know.. all 4 of my AM4 CPUs have run these 4 sticks that I am running right now though.. is it luck?

 

[damric]

I also run 4 sticks on AM4 rigs since 2018, and cheap stuff not that fancy B-die. DJR, Micron E, whatever. 3800CL15, 4000CL18, 3733CL14, and the APUs can 4600CL20.

I don't even have matched kits, just matched ICs so I did two sticks initially and 2 more sticks later.

Wife has 4x16GB of CJR at 3600CL18, and hers is two separate 2x16 kits that are each dual rank so pushing 8 ranks on that one which I was skeptical that it would work but it does.

 

[izy]

On my b450 tomahawk max im running 4 x 8gb @3733mhz cl 16 SR and its ok, they are 2 different kits rated with different timings but in general 4 sticks can run at lower speed than 2 or you just have to use 2T or GDM or higher CL, anyway if you want to use 4 be sure the are single rank because 4 dual rank can be problematic, also 2 x DR or 4x SR can give you a 2 - 5% more performance but i dont think you will notice that.

 

[Launcestonian]

Hmmm, interesting thread, feeds my curiosity to run 4 x16GB Hynix M die on a B650 board board but 2 kits of different brands. I just wish Gigabyte would release AGESA 1.2.0.2 for my board as I've seen it's plenty good for outright performance compared to the "a" version of this AGESA.

 

[freeagent]

Hmmm, interesting thread, feeds my curiosity to run 4 x16GB Hynix M die on a B650 board board but 2 kits of different brands. I just wish Gigabyte would release AGESA 1.2.0.2 for my board as I've seen it's plenty good for outright performance compared to the "a" version of this AGESA.

Keep in mind, we are talking about DDR4

 

[damric]

Hmmm, interesting thread, feeds my curiosity to run 4 x16GB Hynix M die on a B650 board board but 2 kits of different brands. I just wish Gigabyte would release AGESA 1.2.0.2 for my board as I've seen it's plenty good for outright performance compared to the "a" version of this AGESA.

Yeah DDR5 should be SR for 16GB sticks so probably not hard to do

 

[Bill_Bright]

It works for you because you got lucky in the IMC.

I don't agree. I say this is the norm and for those it does not work, they are the unlucky exceptions.

I don't know.. all 4 of my AM4 CPUs have run these 4 sticks that I am running right now though.. is it luck?

Nope. It is how it should work and typically does work.

Since everyone is tossing out their own anecdotal examples, I am running 4 x 8 DDR4 sticks on this Intel system. They all are Corsair but not matched. I have 1 pair of CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 and another pair of CMK16GX4M2B3000C15. Works fine, lasts a long time.

I go back to what I said above,

Contrary to what some still apparently firmly believe, RAM manufacturing technologies and techniques have improved tremendously over the years.

BUT ALSO, contrary to what some apparently want us to believe, motherboard, CPU and memory controller manufacturers have not been sitting on their thumbs the last 10, 15+ years either. Memory controllers have significantly improved such that they are very capable of enabling sticks with slightly different deviations from the published specs to work just fine together - even in dual, triple or quad channel.

Are there exceptions? Of course!

But odds are greatly in the user's favor that when adding a second pair, as long as the published specs are compatible with the board, they will work just fine - even if different speeds, model numbers and even brand. The system will simply toggle down to the slowest speed, most likely with no problems whatsoever.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

What about THREE sticks instead of 2 or 4?

Then you get dual and single channel in one punch!! Yay!

 

[eidairaman1]

The simple matter is if you don't have a lot of confidence in tweaking your ram, and just intend to plug and play, it's hard to go wrong with a two stick installation (outside some models of Corsair RAM when it comes to DDR4). DDR4-3600 is most likely to work (but not guaranteed) in which case you can downclock them to 3200MT/s.


The issue with just adding another set (especially after some time has passed since you got your original kit) is the vendor may have changed the underlying IC's without changing the model number. So in going this route you may encounter compatibility issues.

The bottom line is the best out-of-box experience with AM4 is just 2 sticks at the capacity and speed you want. (and some would say avoiding Corsair DDR4)

In that case XMP/DOCP/AMP may not work but JEDEC should, then if that doesn't work then manual clock and timings adjustment is needed and will always go with the weaker modules.

I don't agree. I say this is the norm and for those it does not work, they are the unlucky exceptions.

Nope. It is how it should work and typically does work.

Since everyone is tossing out their own anecdotal examples, I am running 4 x 8 DDR4 sticks on this Intel system. They all are Corsair but not matched. I have 1 pair of CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 and another pair of CMK16GX4M2B3000C15. Works fine, lasts a long time.

I go back to what I said above,

You just use C16 instead of 15

 

[Bill_Bright]

What about THREE sticks instead of 2 or 4?

There is such a thing as triple channel.

You just use C16 instead of 15

Other way around. The 15s are 3000 and the 16s are 3200. So the system toggles down to the slowest.