AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT Alleged Benchmark Leaks, Underwhelming Performance

[Hecate91]

I’ve never heard of an Nvidia buyer saying they are waiting for AMD to force Nvidia’s prices down.

You can choose to ignore it but I see it all the time here and in various tech reviews, people want AMD to give things away hoping it would start a price war.

Do you believe AMD has pricing power in the GPU market? I don’t.

No I don't think AMD can pressure Nvidia to lower prices, not when Nvidia has 90% of the market and always get excused for garbage like the 4060 8GB.
It seems like people are ok with stupid prices from Nvidia, but not from any other company. The only pricing competition I would expect is between AMD and Intel.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Evergreen was both faster and significantly smaller then nvidia's fermi. The RX 480 was 32mm2 larger then the 1060, and slower. That would require a radical departure from rDNA's design, and there's no way rDNA4 is going to be that.

Mhm, I think you have a bit of a case of rose tinted glasses here, Evergreen was never faster than Fermi, quite contrary actually, and the 500 series sealed the deal even against Cayman. You can look it up on pretty much every vintage review out there. Even if you cherry pick the buffed up Matrix Platinum that had significantly higher clocks and twice the video memory, it still lost to the GTX 480, as loud and funny as that card was, and like... horribly, depending on what you were doing.

ASUS HD 5870 Matrix Platinum 2 GB Review

The ASUS HD 5870 Matrix Platinum is clearly engineered for maximum overclocking. It has 2 GB of fast GDDR5 memory and features software voltage control for three voltages. One unique feature is that the ASUS iTracker 2 sofware can put your changed settings into the BIOS so you won't have to...

www.techpowerup.com

W1zz's suite those 14 years ago was mostly DirectX 9 and 10 games too, which helped mask the fact that its tessellation performance was just terrible in that review.

NVIDIA’s GeForce GTX 480 and GTX 470: 6 Months Late, Was It Worth the Wait?

www.anandtech.com

If you owned the HD 5970 as I did, CF could not be disabled in the driver, so there were negative scaling issues in many games back then. They only added the ability to disable CF through the driver without registry editing (which at the time I did not know how to do) years on. I had both at the time (5970 and 3 480s), I remember it well. While speaking of Heaven and Metro 2033, which is what you would be playing with that setup back in 2010, oh god I just got my PTSD flashbacks from the stuttering that 5970 had. Dear God Dear Lord save our damned souls.

AMD also cut off TeraScale completely in 2015, while Fermi was supported until 2018. So there is also that little detail, it was much better supported if you happened to be running one of those with Windows 10. Of course, that also implies that the performance delta between them only grew over time as NV implemented many features that AMD never did, but this many years later, I do not think it is relevant any longer.

Regardless, AMD needs to stop playing pretend to avoid specifically the scenario outlined above, if not something actually worse than that. The 5090 is looking like it will be almost twice as powerful as the RTX 4090, and that is already untouchable by pretty much anything else in the market today. Time to regroup, rethink, develop, and then place another horse in this race.

 

[Bomby569]

what's with the new trend of releasing new products that barely beat the old gen and sometimes do even worst and asking higher price? And this is not about AMD, because Intel and Nvidia are doing it too.

 

[Dr. Dro]

what's with the new trend of releasing new products that barely beat the old gen and sometimes do even worst and asking higher price? And this is not about AMD, because Intel and Nvidia are doing it too.

Truth is... we have a bit of a situation. The market grew beyond gamers, and there are many who see these as money making tools (AI, crypto, production segments), and ultimately they are unable to mandate and enforce "look, you can only play video games on this.". In the meantime, while faster hardware can still be developed, the largest majority of computing devices today are genuinely good enough, all the while the complexity of research, development, engineering, and manufacturing has gone through the roof, and as a result, the latest and greatest is either in very short supply or extremely expensive.

So instead of releasing products that provide generational leaps for the same money, they started to focus on bringing trendy new features and retaining more or less the same level of performance, with a lower production cost which is then NOT passed onto the customer but pocketed by the corporation instead.

 

[3valatzy]

If it's as fast as a 4070 Super then it's going to be in the same price range, it's that simple.

I'd like to see a 9070XT at $500-550 if it's in the 4070 Super range, but realistically the green team camp is going to crap on AMD no matter the price.

There is one major difference. AMD loses market share all the time, while Nvidia gains market share all the time.
This means that Nvidia's pricing is ok, while AMD's is not ok. No one in their right mind would buy AMD product with the same as RTX 4070 Super performance for the same money.
AMD is obliged to offer more for less. And considerably so, otherwise, the market share will tend to 0 for AMD.

 

[Vya Domus]

This means that Nvidia's pricing is ok, while AMD's is not ok.

Hey don't make me repeat myself :

We're OK being fleeced when the mega corporation owns most of the market but if the other lesser corporation has similar pricing now that's just unacceptable.

 

[Dahita]

Getting a 33% price cut on a 4070 super like product with 16GB of vram is about the best people should expect in 2025 what will likely happen is a 15% at most

What a bargain! With a LOT of luck, we spend a $100 less AT BEST to get a card that is on part with last gen's mid range, and that's in a month IF you're lucky. Where do I sign?!

 

[DaemonForce]

what's with the new trend of releasing new products that barely beat the old gen and sometimes do even worst and asking higher price? And this is not about AMD, because Intel and Nvidia are doing it too.

In a few words, we are devolving with each product in this era of stagnation.
This is thanks to 3 companies making products in the same territory that are NOT competing with one another.
So now we're all stuck in this really stupid MX standoff waiting for one of them to break rank. The outcome is projected in two possibilities:
- The market leader (nVidia) dozing off at the steering wheel the same way Intel does whenever charged with the task of FILLING A FAB
- One of the market underdogs pours major $$$$$ into R&D and produces a competing product at a competing price SOMEWHERE in the upper-mid range GPU market

The amount of "within sight/reach" going on is already serious with no change or worsening product gaps before prices and future products come completely unglued from reality.

Here's what I believe will happen:
The amount of AI goldrush going on in each company has nVidia racing to create the next major product at whatever price because it romances the "unbeatable performance" customers while AMD overtakes with hardware but falls face first with software. The lack of "full stack" product is going to have AMD racing to poach as many engineers, QAs and partners as possible. The introduction of complete OOB solutions will keep AMD competing in a mid-range market without any real chance of meeting nVidia at the bleeding edge. Intel is off to a very slow start while facing numerous emergencies without their precious Gelsinger. Not only are they unable to stir up competition, their software stacks are full of enough bugs and major problems that they will have to grow the most before having any serious position anywhere in the market, at the moment they will continue encroaching on nVidia's lowest tier product sales and possibly AMD's low end if they ever get a handle on improved packaging where AMD eats their sales. None of this is slowing down for ANY reason.

AMD currently has a few really amazing products that appeal to me and that's probably where I'll be next month unless nVidia or Intel pull off a mass miracle.

 

[Scrizz]

I hate to be that guy, but literally nobody cares about path tracing when it comes with that much of a performance penalty. Not even the most die hard Nvidia zealots running 4090s. Ask anyone running one if they'd rather run this game at 1080p 60FPS path traced or 4K 60FPS with RT and DLSS Quality on their 4K monitors when actually playing the game and not benchmarking.

Until low/mid-range cards like the RTX 5060 can pull off framerates of 30FPS or at least above slideshow levels, these path tracing benches are as worthless as those Ashes of the Singularity async compute benches that AMD used to be obsessed with back in the day: it only matters on one page for reviewers and absolutely nowhere in the real world. If this card's RT performance is even under Nvidia's by 10-15% and raster performance is better than Nvidia's equivalent card by at least that same amount, anyone with a brain will pick the 16GB AMD card over the already obsoleted 12GB Nvidia card (if the VRAM capacity rumours are to be believed of re-using 12GB capacity for 5070 class GPUs and 8GB for the 5060s) because PS5 ports without RT already need 12GB or more VRAM for native 4K. I'll take the much higher frame rate and native resolution + settings with realistic lighting but no/minimal RT over the lower frame rate and resolution path traced one with glistening mirror-looking floors and fuzzy reflections of RT anyday.

speak for yourself.
I run PT . It's not like this is Counterstrike lol

 

[ymdhis]

Mhm, I think you have a bit of a case of rose tinted glasses here, Evergreen was never faster than Fermi, quite contrary actually, and the 500 series sealed the deal even against Cayman. You can look it up on pretty much every vintage review out there. Even if you cherry pick the buffed up Matrix Platinum that had significantly higher clocks and twice the video memory, it still lost to the GTX 480, as loud and funny as that card was, and like... horribly, depending on what you were doing.

HD5870 was faster per watt. And ran much, much cooler. GTX 480 became a meme for being able to fry an egg...

GTX480 was better at tessellating, true, in benchmarks, where you put 100s of polygons into every pixel. This is completely useless in real world usage because polygons so small will not get rendered on screen, so it's just a waste of computing power. It's why AMD added tessellation settings into their drivers.

Fermi may have had official support for longer, but how much of that was just the same driver, recompressed with the latest runtime components? I didn't follow the changelogs, did any of them mention specific Fermi-related optimizations for modern games? Genuine question here, I don't know this.

 

[TPUnique]

The only products launch i was a bit excited in 2024 were the 9800X3D, Intel B580 and 5700X3D. Let's see what next year brings to the table.

B770 and Strix Halo is what I'm looking forward to.

 

[tfdsaf]

The people crying over AMD not releasing high end here, boy. Only for them to then buy an Nvidia GPU. Oh if only AMD had a 7900XTX equivalent with better RT it would be godly, then they end up buying Nvidia and only use AMD as a way for Nvidia to keep prices somewhat in check.

Well guys, they are going for low end and mainstream buyers, they literally sell 5% of the high end segment, meaning Nvidia sells 95% of $800+ segment with AMD only selling 5%. Why would they bother with it?

If the 9070XT is 5% faster than the 7900GRE in games and costs $500 that would be an amazing deal. Plus if it came with better RT which I don't think is worthwhile still, that would also be a plus.

Then if the 9070 is 15% slower than the 9070XT or about 10% faster than the 7800XT at $400 that would be great as well. Remember the 7800XT goes for $450 on average, so if we get a 10% faster card in games with better RT performance at a lower price that would be great.

Anything better than that pricing and we are in amazing territory, a slightly faster and better 7900GRE for $400 would obviously be amazing, but its also quite difficult as that would mean they are probably slightly losing money on that card.

Again would it be amazing if AMD sold the 9070XT for $200? Hell yeah! But we don't live in lala land, we don't live in a fairytale, they have to sell it at best for us consumers AT COST! So that means they would be giving it away for free on their end, you pay for it of course, but they don't profit anything.

So to me a realistic price for these are: 9070XT=$500, 9070=$400, 9060XT=$300, 9060=$250, 9050=$200

 

[Bomby569]

The people crying over AMD not releasing high end here, boy. Only for them to then buy an Nvidia GPU. Oh if only AMD had a 7900XTX equivalent with better RT it would be godly, then they end up buying Nvidia and only use AMD as a way for Nvidia to keep prices somewhat in check.

Well guys, they are going for low end and mainstream buyers, they literally sell 5% of the high end segment, meaning Nvidia sells 95% of $800+ segment with AMD only selling 5%. Why would they bother with it?

If the 9070XT is 5% faster than the 7900GRE in games and costs $500 that would be an amazing deal. Plus if it came with better RT which I don't think is worthwhile still, that would also be a plus.

Then if the 9070 is 15% slower or about 10% faster than the 7800XT at $400 that would be great as well. Remember the 7800XT goes for $450 on average, so if we get a 10% faster card in games with better RT performance at a lower price that would be great.

Anything better than that pricing and we are in amazing territory, a slightly faster and better 7900GRE for $400 would obviously be amazing, but its also quite difficult as that would mean they are probably slightly losing money on that card.

Again would it be amazing if AMD sold the 9070XT for $200? Hell yeah! But we don't live in lala land, we don't live in a fairytale, they have to sell it at best for us consumers AT COST! So that means they would be giving it away for free on their end, you pay for it of course, but they don't profit anything.

So to me a realistic price for these are: 9070XT=$500, 9070=$400, 9060XT=$300, 9060=$250, 9050=$200

so they don't sell high end because they only get 5% of that pie, is your argument.
Like they sell any bigger peace of the pie in the lower segments! and will do so it if they don't sell for the high end. What kind of argument is that?

The only thing they will get is less exposure in the media, not sure that's a positive.

 

[3valatzy]

If the 9070XT is 5% faster than the 7900GRE in games and costs $500 that would be an amazing deal. Plus if it came with better RT which I don't think is worthwhile still, that would also be a plus.

Then if the 9070 is 15% slower or about 10% faster than the 7800XT at $400 that would be great as well. Remember the 7800XT goes for $450 on average, so if we get a 10% faster card in games with better RT performance at a lower price that would be great.

RX 7800 XT and RX 7900 GRE have quite similar performance. Releasing a new generation card at the old release MSRP of the RX 7800 XT with the same performance would be disappointing, and will render the new card DOA.

AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE Re-Review: You Can Buy the Golden Rabbit Now

This is not the first time we're testing AMD's Radeon RX 7900 GRE (Golden Rabbit). That actually happened 6 months ago, but this is the first time...

www.techspot.com

Again would it be amazing if AMD sold the 9070XT for $200?

$300 or $319 would be fine!

 

[kapone32]

RX 7800 XT and RX 7900 GRE have quite similar performance. Releasing a new generation card at the old release MSRP of the RX 7800 XT with the same performance would be disappointing, and will render the new card DOA.

View attachment 377156

AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE Re-Review: You Can Buy the Golden Rabbit Now

This is not the first time we're testing AMD's Radeon RX 7900 GRE (Golden Rabbit). That actually happened 6 months ago, but this is the first time...

www.techspot.com

$300 or $319 would be fine!

You always pick specific benchmarks to make your argument black and white when the truth is much more nuanced. 1440P is where these cards separate not 4K.

 

[Bomby569]

Releasing a new generation card at the old release MSRP of the RX 7800 XT with the same performance would be disappointing, and will render the new card DOA.

it won't because they will stop selling the old card, they are probably not making any for some time now. You already can't find the GRE.
People will buy what's available, it's like changing a couple of lines on the design of a car and calling it a new model, allows them to sell the same old shit for a premium as new.

 

[3valatzy]

You always pick specific benchmarks to make your argument black and white when the truth is much more nuanced. 1440P is where these cards separate not 4K.

Remark accepted.
1440p, difference is 5% which is in the range of the statistical error, and fluctuates from a system to another system. That said - your system with RX 7800 XT could be faster than someone else's with RX 7900 GRE!

it won't because they will stop selling the old card, they are probably not making any for some time now. You already can't find the GRE.
People will buy what's available, it's like changing a couple of lines on the design of a car and calling it a new model, allows them to sell the same old shit for a premium as new.

I agree that they could call the old cards back, the thing is when the sales have already dried out, the train is gone, and you will not get those sales back because your release the same old thing under a new package.

 

[Krit]

If the 9070XT is 5% faster than the 7900GRE in games and costs $500 that would be an amazing deal.

If the RX 9070 XT is only ~ 15% faster than RX 7800 XT than is not amazing deal!!!!! Even if RT is better than that.

No gain for the same msrp just wasted time! Look at Unreal Engine 5 which degrades fps at a tremendous rate way faster than slow new gen gpus just can't keep up.

 

[tfdsaf]

RX 7800 XT and RX 7900 GRE have quite similar performance. Releasing a new generation card at the old release MSRP of the RX 7800 XT with the same performance would be disappointing, and will render the new card DOA.

View attachment 377156

AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE Re-Review: You Can Buy the Golden Rabbit Now

This is not the first time we're testing AMD's Radeon RX 7900 GRE (Golden Rabbit). That actually happened 6 months ago, but this is the first time...

www.techspot.com

$300 or $319 would be fine!

That is old data, since then 7900GRE memory was unlocked since then and all AIB's were selling higher speed memory versions that added 10% performance.

If you look at the latest data from techpowerup, which they just did a rebenching with their new 9800x3d test setup the GRE is 10% faster than the 7800XT. And again it also depends which model you are using, the card is 10% to 15% faster than the 7800XT.

So if the 9070XT is 5-10% faster in games than the GRE, that means it is anywhere from 15% to 20% faster over the 7800XT. So 20% faster for just $50 more I'd take that deal.

Again the 7900XT is about 30% faster than the 7800XT and it costs even with the latest Christmas and New Years cuts around $670, realistically its $700+ without all of the temporary deals.

So a $500 GPU that is 20% faster, up to 2.5x faster in RT and is more power efficient on top of that, that is a win in my eyes!

I mean I get it that people want AMD to literally give out free GPU's so they can still buy Nvidia ones, but just at a slightly lower cost. People would still buy a 5060TI 8GB TURD for $400 over a FREE RX 9070XT. They just hope AMD giving away free cards will reduce the 5060TI price from $500 to $400 so they can rush out and buy it.

AMD should just ignore all of those purchasers, they are long gone, too brainwahsed to think otherwise and focus on new buyers, focus on value buyers, focus on prebuilt computers, focus on deals with their CPU's, focus on deals with their motherboards, etc... You want a 9800x3d, it comes $40 cheaper paired in a bundle with RX 9070XT, you want a 9700X it comes $50 cheaper paired with a RX 9070, etc...

You buy an AMD mobo it comes $30-60 cheaper when bought in a bundle/combo with a RX 9000 series GPU, etc...

Those are the type of deals, promos, and people AMD should focus on. They are never going to get the likes of you, you are too far gone, if they were giving away free gpu's you'd still buy Nvidia, so the focus shouldn't be you, it should be new buyers, value buyers, developing countries buyers, emerging economies buyers, system builders, combo buyers, deals buyers, bundle buyers, etc...

 

[Sound_Card]

What is going on in the GPU market looks different compared to what was going on in the CPU market. AMD offering more cores, even with lower IPC, was enough to convince people to go from Intel to AMD. In the GPU market people keep buying the sticker. They don't care about performance or value for money. The propaganda about AMD drivers starting a fire and burning down the house, or AMD features being crap, or games looking like B&W vector graphics without DLSS and Nvidia RT, is imprinted in people's minds. RTX 3050 sells 10 times more than RX 6600.

This was a brutal truth post.

 

[tfdsaf]

If the RX 9070 XT is only ~ 15% faster than RX 7800 XT than is not amazing deal!!!!! Even if RT is better than that.

No gain for the same msrp just wasted time! Look at Unreal Engine 5 which degrades fps at a tremendous rate way faster than slow new gen gpus just can't keep up.

I mean in the leak the 4070ti super is only 5% faster than it and only 20% faster than the 7800XT, when in reality in actual games it is at least 30% faster than the 7800XT. So if we were to extrapolate from all of those results, then the 9070XT is likely going to be 20 to 25% faster than the 7800XT. The 7800XT current geomean price is $450.

20% or faster performance across the board, plus up to 2.5x RT performance, better energy efficiency at $500? That seems like a good deal to me. Would I want it to cost $400? Who wouldn't? Would I want AMD to give them out for free? Hell yeah! Considering Nvidia's RTX 5070 is going to cost over $700 for what is likely going to be a 10% performance increase over the 4070 super and it also comes with a measly 12GB of Vram, then I think we are getting a great deal with AMD.

I mean Intel is offering a RTX 4060 type performance, 7600 type performance at just $50 less, everyone thinks its a great deal. the B580 is 5% faster on average than these GPU's for $30 to $50 less and its gotten positive reviews and positive reception.

I would think 20% or more performance at $50 more cost would be a good deal.

If these end up being higher than $500 then I would have an issue with it, if it came at $550 or if it was only 10% faster than the 7800XT and even if it cost $450 with that performance it would be bad.

I think 20% performance gain or maybe even slightly more is a good uplift over the 7800XT for what was until yesterday the same price. Remember just 3 months ago these were still selling at $500, apart from temporary deals and promotions they've been selling for $500 for the longest time! Its only recently that they've been selling for $450 average price and there are still models that go for $500.

 

[igormp]

Well guys, they are going for low end and mainstream buyers, they literally sell 5% of the high end segment, meaning Nvidia sells 95% of $800+ segment with AMD only selling 5%. Why would they bother with it?

so they don't sell high end because they only get 5% of that pie, is your argument.
Like they sell any bigger peace of the pie in the lower segments! and will do so it if they don't sell for the high end. What kind of argument is that?

The only thing they will get is less exposure in the media, not sure that's a positive.

One thing that I believe is the case (but which I don't have any proper numbers to back this off, so feel free to ignore) is that those 5% halo products (the likes of 3090, 4090 and 5090) often end up in the prosumer market, where AMD can't really compete due to their lacking software ecosystem, so no matter how good their product is hardware wise, or if they can deliver raytracing, their remaining stack related to compute is still subpar and would not make it a good return on investment.

AMD should just ignore all of those purchasers, they are long gone, too brainwahsed to think otherwise and focus on new buyers, focus on value buyers, focus on prebuilt computers, focus on deals with their CPU's, focus on deals with their motherboards, etc... You want a 9800x3d, it comes $40 cheaper paired in a bundle with RX 9070XT, you want a 9700X it comes $50 cheaper paired with a RX 9070, etc...

You buy an AMD mobo it comes $30-60 cheaper when bought in a bundle/combo with a RX 9000 series GPU, etc...

Those are the type of deals, promos, and people AMD should focus on. They are never going to get the likes of you, you are too far gone, if they were giving away free gpu's you'd still buy Nvidia, so the focus shouldn't be you, it should be new buyers, value buyers, developing countries buyers, emerging economies buyers, system builders, combo buyers, deals buyers, bundle buyers, etc...

Kinda on that idea, I believe AMD is going to start focusing on all-in-one products when Strix Halo drops. A mini-PC that's smaller than an ITX system, with good performance and a reasonable price tag should sway tons of value/prebuilt/new buyers.
I know this forum is about enthusiasts that like their DIY stuff, but I don't think most buyers out there actually mind such thing at all.

 

[Bomby569]

Kinda on that idea, I believe AMD is going to start focusing on all-in-one products when Strix Halo drops. A mini-PC that's smaller than an ITX system, with good performance and a reasonable price tag should sway tons of value/prebuilt/new buyers.
I know this forum is about enthusiasts that like their DIY stuff, but I don't think most buyers out there actually mind such thing at all.

Most people don't like all in one products. Their quality, price vs performance, up-gradability is shit, you only buy them once.
It's not a forum problem.

 

[Krit]

I mean in the leak the 4070ti super is only 5% faster than it and only 20% faster than the 7800XT

Timespy leak shows that RX 9070 XT is only 14% faster than RX 7800 XT not 20%!!! That's more like cpu gen gain than gpu!

 

[igormp]

Most people don't like all in one products. Their quality, price vs performance, up-gradability is shit, you only buy them once.
It's not a forum problem.

I don't think that's the case, just see laptops, apple products, and even the new wave of mini-PCs that are appearing.
Most people don't like tinkering around with computer parts, hence why I say this is a "forum problem", given this is actually the hobby of many users here.

I could very well be wrong tho. My point will only stand if Strix Halo ever gets sold in a mini-PC format, and if this product gets enough traction.