AMD is Taking Time with Radeon RX 9000 to Optimize Software and FSR 4

[dyonoctis]

I have the weird suspicion that we might need another PowerVR moment where the industry find another “work smarter, not harder “ way, especially with RT.

I've always been convinced the RT push is a gamble. There is no conclusion yet whether it'll be here to stay, especially in its current form. PT is also an innovation. Is it one in the right direction? We don't know.

There's already something that's being worked on : neural rendering. Not as a after rendering filter, but to render the game itself. Some of it looks dodgy (neural faces looks like they don't belong in the game, something just looks off) but other seems promising, like neural texure compression, using machine learing to enable more complex shaders at a lower cost, using machine learing to lower the computational cost of path tracing... Because nvidia was the first to heavily market it, people are already doubting the tech, but they aren't the only one who've been researching it.

Intel Is Working on Real-Time Neural Rendering
Neural Supersampling and Denoising for Real-time Path Tracing - AMD GPUOpen

 

[Geofrancis]

The secret with AMD is to never buy their latest GPU, but wait until just after the latest one comes out to buy the older generation at steep discount, that way you get a decent upgrade for a fraction of the price with well optimised drivers.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Another thread full of people whining about a product they weren't going to purchase to begin with.

This comment is the crying wojak with the smug mask on top personified. Maybe AMD would sell if they were actually competitive, without 19 qualifying statements?

Give yourselves a break, will ya?

You should listen to your own advice.

And my favorite thing to see repeated is people ignoring reality while repeating the same "but nvidia" marketing points reviewers always highlight.

Nothing I wrote uses nvidia marketing points, which is where your argument falls apart.

The "reality" is AMD has not had a feature complete competitor to Nvidia since 2014. Polaris and rDNA1 ignored huge portions of the market while RX 6000s sucked at RT and the 7000s played pricing shenanigans to promote their higher end hardware. In the professional space, they have nothing remotely close to CUDA, or nvidia's AI tools, and that has long hurt them. Tinybuild showed how much harder it was to get AMD's help vs Nvidias. So, yeah, their sales suck. That's what happens when you are not competitive.

Exactly, and everyone whined when FSR got added to a game first, but there was nothing when Indiana Jones only had DLSS.

A simple Google search would reveal that was a lie. Plenty of forum threads and Reddit posts bellyaching about no FSR, and how crazy it is, blah blah blah.

 

[ThomasK]

This comment is the crying wojak with the smug mask on top personified. Maybe AMD would sell if they were actually competitive, without 19 qualifying statements?

Sounds like a script from Clownus Tech Tips. Is that where you go to stay informed? Just to come back and write trash on the comment section.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Sounds like a script from Clownus Tech Tips. Is that where you go to stay informed? Just to come back and write trash on the comment section.

I've been very critical of LTT before, and no I've never used their comment section, so I dont know why you think this. The irony of accusing others of writing "trash in the comment section" isnt lost on me.

 

[Chrispy_]

That's easily explained. When FSR is missing nobody complains since as you and your comrades keep telling us, upscalers are crap and you are not using them.

There are ten times more Nvidia GPU users than AMD GPU users right now, so when FSR is missing, 90% of the people are still happy.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

There's already something that's being worked on : neural rendering. Not as a after rendering filter, but to render the game itself. Some of it looks dodgy (neural faces looks like they don't belong in the game, something just looks off) but other seems promising, like neural texure compression, using machine learing to enable more complex shaders at a lower cost, using machine learing to lower the computational cost of path tracing... Because nvidia was the first to heavily market it, people are already doubting the tech, but they aren't the only one who've been researching it.

Intel Is Working on Real-Time Neural Rendering
Neural Supersampling and Denoising for Real-time Path Tracing - AMD GPUOpen

I could be wrong, but wasnt that the already used method for calculating shadows?

Meaning, the calculations done on the developers end, baked into the game and then ship it?

Granted, not exactly the same, but you catch my drift.

But yes, I think that better ways are definitely needed, because brute force never seems to work in the end.

 

[JustBenching]

There are ten times more Nvidia GPU users than AMD GPU users right now, so when FSR is missing, 90% of the people are still happy.

That too, but also it seems that there is a strong correlation between "upscaling is crap and I don't use it" and AMD users, so it makes sense that we don't see any complaints. What's there to complain about, they don't even use it.

 

[ThomasK]

isnt lost on me.

From my part, yes it is.

 

[Hecate91]

That's easily explained. When FSR is missing nobody complains since as you and your comrades keep telling us, upscalers are crap and you are not using them. So whos gonna complain exactly and why? Do you want me to complain that you can't use a feature that you weren't going to use anyways cause you think it's crap?

It's easily explained when Nvidia users outnumber AMD users by at least 80-90%. And yeah people who aren't biased for Nvidia will say upscaling is crap in most instances and would rather enjoy a better looking game at native resolution. IMO upscaling shouldn't be forced as a need to use feature, hardware performance needs to significantly improve before I decide to upgrade to a new card.

 

[JustBenching]

It's easily explained when Nvidia users outnumber AMD users by at least 80-90%. And yeah people who aren't biased for Nvidia will say upscaling is crap in most instances and would rather enjoy a better looking game at native resolution. IMO upscaling shouldn't be forced as a need to use feature, hardware performance needs to significantly improve before I decide to upgrade to a new card.

Sure, but then why do you expect someone to complain? Since you and the other amd users aren't biased like we nvidia users are, and therefore you don't like upscaling, whos gonna complain about FSR missing man? You are not using it.

 

[Vayra86]

Sure, but then why do you expect someone to complain? Since you and the other amd users aren't biased like we nvidia users are, and therefore you don't like upscaling, whos gonna complain about FSR missing man? You are not using it.

Why do you feel the need to pull everything into camp mentality every time? One could think you're baiting. I do at this point.

 

[JustBenching]

Why do you feel the need to pull everything into camp mentality every time? One could think you're baiting. I do at this point.

Me? Im responding using the data im given. If the data im given is that only biased nvidia fans use upscaling (that's what hecate91 said, not me) then it makes sense that nobody complains about the lack of fsr.

 

[freeagent]

It is obvious that there are more Nvidia users than AMD users. Why AMD users feel the need to shout from every mountain top about how good they are.. Nvidia users have eyes.

This whole back and forth between AMD/Nvidia is getting really old now.

It is just hardware. Use what you like. Be helpful, not opinionated. If you cant help, then I am sure you can figure out what to do next.

 

[Chrispy_]

Be helpful, not opinionated.

Playing devil's advocate here, but this is the comments section to a news post.

Nobody here is asking for advice/assistance - this is literally an opinion thread by design. Fanboyism and conflicts of opinion are - sadly - human nature.

 

[Hecate91]

I can ask the same thing except its the opposite, why Nvidia users feel the need to constantly shout about how bad AMD cards are? It's clear Nvidia users really don't care and have no intention of even buying an AMD card, they feel the need to have everything be in a camp mentality, a distorted view of everything must be a brand war.
The back and forth is getting very old I agree, but you can thank the tech press for pushing this sort of panic and FUD with AMD articles while at the same time pushing tons of hype and praise for Nvidia, and the users get upset when something doesn't launch when they think it needs to.

 

[TSiAhmat]

It is obvious that there are more Nvidia users than AMD users. Why AMD users feel the need to shout from every mountain top about how good they are.. Nvidia users have eyes.

I feel like this sentence could just be left out man... You are just kicking a hornet nest at this point.

I see it from both sides several times in many threads, there is no objectively correct side (and there probably never will be)

 

[JustBenching]

Crazy idea but what if FSR 4 introduces something like MFG - hence the delays?

 

[ZoneDymo]

NVIDIA doesn't compete on anything, because they're the ones setting the direction and pace of the market. Other companies are competing with them - or rather, trying to.

If you don't believe me, try naming a single original graphics feature that AMD or Intel has released in the last half-decade. I'll bet you can't, and that's because the only features those companies have released are copies of what NVIDIA pioneered.

Maybe read the conversation again because your reaction makes little sense.
But to continue on that claim, I would love to hear what you think "Nvidia pioneered".

I don't know. I'm just making a theory here. It could also be the other way around - AMD might be waiting for the 5070 to release to set the final price on the 9070 XT.


There's a difference between competing on price before and after reviews are out.

what is the difference? either way if they are looking at the market and performance of the competition and basing their price on that...then that is competing on price, that is all it is.

 

[Neo1729]

Amd are there own worst enemy as fsr and upscaling techniques are not required if you use the correct resolution. i still to this day use 720p except its now running at 120 htz on a stupid fast gpu that never exceeds 50% usage amd never goes above 60 degrees.
i challenge anyone here to run any game ,,at 720p at 120htz and only 30 fps max and see if you can tell the difference between this and max fps.
If you csn you have a bad display and you should use a qled screen.

 

[kapone32]

Meanwhile in the retail World stores still have plenty of 7900 series card. Why is that so hard to explain the delay and the pricing war rumour. Now a hard date has been set I expect to see great prices for 7900-7800 over the next 2-3 weeks. I could be totally wrong but the prices on Newegg Canada have not moved far from the $999 the 7900XT settled at. I remember when As Rock 7900XT Phantom was $829 CAD for black Friday and sold out by lunchtime.

 

[InVasMani]

FP4 to me honestly makes the latest RTX generation inherently is the most interesting. The quantized sub pixel precision detail is important from a performance standpoint. Being able to layer more largely indistinguishable details is transformative. Basically finer lighting details that can be layered. That's going to make RT and rasterization look better in the end.

 

[wNotyarD]

Crazy idea but what if FSR 4 introduces something like MFG - hence the delays?

Possibly something along these ways. We know it's trickery, but someone must try to make numbers look good.

 

[Sound_Card]

Why do you feel the need to pull everything into camp mentality every time? One could think you're baiting. I do at this point.

I started to filter out his posts and the 4060ti owners. They turn the AMD threads into "well I had a radeon but DLSS is god, and eh... why buy AMD bro" " they should sell at a loss bro" - essentially.

As for the thread: The story is that the 9070xt is 50%+ faster than the 7800xt (bother raster and RT combined), and the original price was under $600, they were hoping the 5070 was $650 or more. Nvidia caught wind of the performance and price of the 9070xt and preemptively lowered the price to $550. (So if anybody is actually "scared" it's Nvidia in this situation). This preemptive price cut threw AMD off guard, hence the delay in launching because they are negating with AIB's and retailers to get the price down. I think they are aiming for $529 XT and $479 non XT.

 

[InVasMani]

If pricing is good enough it should sell fine if it's not it can rot on store shelves I could care less.