Phil Spencer Wishes for Innovative Next-gen Xbox Hardware, Current Consoles Too Similar

[T0@st]

Microsoft's Xbox Series X and S home gaming consoles have, so far, struggled to compete—saleswise—with Sony's full range of PlayStation 5 models. In reaction, CEO Phil Spencer and his colleagues have largely re-strategized Xbox's current platform. In recent times, less emphasis has been placed on the core system, and Microsoft's grip on software exclusivity has been loosened to a large degree. Any capable enough device is now "an Xbox"—be it a Smart TV, laptop, or smartphone. A gamer can enable this via Xbox's Cloud Gaming service or PC app. The company's new approach has been questioned by many folks—does it add value to (or remove from) the Xbox brand? Microsoft Gaming's chief has fielded similar queries—thrown his way by multiple media outlets over the past two weeks. Many headline quotes have been extracted, and the latest one focuses on future innovations.

Destin Legarie—an independent journalist, formerly of IGN—booked time with the Xbox boss. Naturally, media outlets have picked up on choice sentences from the first episode of Legarie's (just launched) Save State Plus paywalled podcast. Microsoft and Sony are rumored to be working on next-gen consoles—Spencer was asked about his ideal vision for the future, in response he stated: "I want us to innovate and make hardware the differentiator. We've got into this space where the differentiation on the hardware has gone down, and it's really been 'locked games' that have become the identity of the hardware. I love when I see handhelds, when I see unique things that hardware manufacturers do." According to various leaks and bits of inside information, next-gen AMD CPU and GPU architectures have been linked to a new wave of Sony and Microsoft gaming machines—perhaps mirroring choices made in the past. Starting with the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 generation, both teams have—so far—selected very similar internals. Spencer has wishlisted a different path for the near future: "I want our hardware to compete on power, and on innovation. So let's have our platform continue to innovate with services and the hardware work that we're doing—whether it's controller, power, or mobility."



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[Steevo]

How about no? The reason Consoles (minus Nintendo who have always done their own thing) are the same is X86-64 and integrated graphics on a unified architecture makes developing easy and opens the doors for small developers to write code, compile, test and bug check on common architecture. How about instead they focus on bringing all the AI BS into fruition with better NPC's and gameplay since we are getting that forced on us.

 

[GenericUsername2001]

I have an idea for Microsoft - how about some sort of always-on camera attachment that goes above your TV, that can track people's bodies to use as motion controls. I bet it would be a huge hit!

Note this is a joke.

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

I have no idea what I just read. It all sounds like a bunch of corporate double-speak, marketing jargon, and gobbledygook.

Show, don't tell, Phil. We will know you are serious about Xbox if you can release a single console at a reasonable price that is either not crippled at launch with weak hardware or a weak starting lineup of games.

 

[efikkan]

How about no? The reason Consoles (minus Nintendo who have always done their own thing) are the same is X86-64 and integrated graphics on a unified architecture makes developing easy and opens the doors for small developers to write code, compile, test and bug check on common architecture.

Being on x86 is a clear advantage for sure, but the vast majority of development of console only/console first titles happens on regular desktops with dedicated GPUs. Fine-tuning for integrated graphics, shared memory and all the Xbox or PlayStation related hardware specifics is a hindrance, not an advantage. If MS and Sony came to their senses and basically made their own "SteamOS" to run on all kinds of PCs, we would actually remove an unnecessary hurdle for developers. (But I'm not sure I want to give them that idea…)

 

[john_]

If people are willing to camp outside stores to pay $500 over MSRP for an RTX 5090, maybe Microsoft can try an $800 console with some Nvidia magic in it. It could fail, it could be a success.
Then again Nintendo keeps proving that hardware isn't necessarily the deciding factor for a success in consoles.

 

[sephiroth117]

The main issue is that game development cost have skyrocketed in recent years.

Sony has been adamant on them, 100-300m for ONE game, a game that's often finished in 30 hours or so (but is profitable and important)

So a "specific" architecture means developers having spend more time channeling its power, its innovation.


Nintendo and valve they run respectively an ARM+Nvidia SoC, something developers are very familiar with in-between tablets and Nvidia's popularity and establishment in the gaming PC market...and x86 + AMD which is as proven and known as it can get.

This is not an innovation that requires whole new development technics like that Cell CPU in the PS3, this is a proven architecture with cheap development cost.

So yes for innovation, for instance a handheld xbox which is kinda official, no for innovation that will force developers to create big fork just for one hardware.

 

[Sound_Card]

Just stop making the games available on PC and make your games exclusive. You pretty much win the console war.

 

[HeadRusch1]

Just stop making the games available on PC and make your games exclusive. You pretty much win the console war.

.........and lose every developer on the planet because there are a billion PC's deployed on x86 and Linux and Mac translators that open up that door to some degree as well. You would be committing corporate suicide if you opted to go exclusive in 2024, but if you did.....it should be PC only as that has the far, far, far biggest installed base of any machines running Windows or SteamOS. That's a lotta cheddar on the table.

I figure it's just a matter of time before Sony goes "So, let's get ourselves a quick couple hundred-million bucks and release that Gran Turismo 7 port we have ready on Windows next fall, whaddya say!?"

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

.........and lose every developer on the planet because there are a billion PC's deployed on x86 and Linux and Mac translators that open up that door to some degree as well. You would be committing corporate suicide if you opted to go exclusive in 2024, but if you did.....it should be PC only as that has the far, far, far biggest installed base of any machines running Windows or SteamOS. That's a lotta cheddar on the table.

I figure it's just a matter of time before Sony goes "So, let's get ourselves a quick couple hundred-million bucks and release that Gran Turismo 7 port we have ready on Windows next fall, whaddya say!?"

I dunno, I’d venture that 90% of those PCs are potatoes that can’t run any modern game title. Also, Nintendo does not do this and they have no trouble selling their first-party wares on what elite gamers consider to be insufficient hardware. What devs don’t want is to target more unique hardware setups for the sake of “excitement.”

Phil is just sad because MS squandered all the gains they made with the 360. Sony smoked them with the PS4, and by the time MS countered, it was too late. Xbox doesn’t have enough exclusive content to draw people anymore. MS might be better off making an Xbox PC that can handle the content, while doubling as a W11 desktop. They are the ones in the driver’s seat by having Windows, a hardware division, and many game studios. All the MS departments can’t get along enough to make something brilliant though.

 

[Sound_Card]

.........and lose every developer on the planet because there are a billion PC's deployed on x86 and Linux and Mac translators that open up that door to some degree as well. You would be committing corporate suicide if you opted to go exclusive in 2024, but if you did.....it should be PC only as that has the far, far, far biggest installed base of any machines running Windows or SteamOS. That's a lotta cheddar on the table.

I figure it's just a matter of time before Sony goes "So, let's get ourselves a quick couple hundred-million bucks and release that Gran Turismo 7 port we have ready on Windows next fall, whaddya say!?"

MS has the most IP for games right. They are the "developers". And they wouldn't lose money if they focused on Xbox over PC, they would actually lower their development cost, marketing, overhead, and gain sales through Xbox live/marketplace as opposed to sharing retails with steam etc. Long-term would be even more lucrative, as the exclusivity would drive up attachment rate. The initial idea when Xbox 1 came out, was to streamline PC and Xbox into a unified gaming experience because they thought they could drive up more software sales. What is actually happening is they are losing money.

Nintendo is winning with less, and the idea that they ported any of their games to PC would be the death of their console. Exclusivity is what creates the uniqueness that Phil knows he is lacking, and special hardware is not going to save xbox - just good exclusive games. It's not hard to figure out. No other company goes after Emulators and Roms harder than Nintendo, and while it is easy to say they are greedy punks, the truth is they know what keeps them alive and well is their exclusive IP that they tied to their hardware.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

I've got a better idea. Hows about, this time, you make just ONE console, not 2, and dont kneecap the next generation with some garbage S series console that can barely turn on without smoking? Then, isntead of supporitng a console and a half, you instead make some GOOD games! Pro tip, fire EVERYONE who ever worked in management at 343 and start over with a fresh halo game, split apart from your previous entries. A new forza, a viva pinata party game, resurrect some other IP in other genres, and give people a reason to buy into your platform.

Actually, even better idea, just dont bother with a conslow. Just make good games for Windows and the other console platforms. Minecraft has done far better than anything else you have made in the last decade.

I dunno, I’d venture that 90% of those PCs are potatoes that can’t run any modern game title. Also, Nintendo does not do this and they have no trouble selling their first-party wares on what elite gamers consider to be insufficient hardware. What devs don’t want is to target more unique hardware setups for the sake of “excitement.”

Phil is just sad because MS squandered all the gains they made with the 360. Sony smoked them with the PS4, and by the time MS countered, it was too late. Xbox doesn’t have enough exclusive content to draw people anymore. MS might be better off making an Xbox PC that can handle the content, while doubling as a W11 desktop. They are the ones in the driver’s seat by having Windows, a hardware division, and many game studios. All the MS departments can’t get along enough to make something brilliant though.

Counterpoint: the PC is now larger in software sales then the Xbone and Pissr combined. Focusing on software, where the money is made, is undeniably the right move.

*correction, it is larger then xbox, playstation, AND the switch combined. It's arguable at this point that the presence of the xbox console is actually just a money losing proposition.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I've got a better idea. Hows about, this time, you make just ONE console, not 2, and dont kneecap the next generation with some garbage S series console that can barely turn on without smoking? Then, isntead of supporitng a console and a half, you instead make some GOOD games! Pro tip, fire EVERYONE who ever worked in management at 343 and start over with a fresh halo game, split apart from your previous entries. A new forza, a viva pinata party game, resurrect some other IP in other genres, and give people a reason to buy into your platform.

Actually, even better idea, just dont bother with a conslow. Just make good games for Windows and the other console platforms. Minecraft has done far better than anything else you have made in the last decade.


Counterpoint: the PC is now larger in software sales then the Xbone and Pissr combined. Focusing on software, where the money is made, is undeniably the right move.

*correction, it is larger then xbox, playstation, AND the switch combined. It's arguable at this point that the presence of the xbox console is actually just a money losing proposition.

What was once a big positive to a console was the guaranteed compatibility and support that comes with known, closed hardware. Having multiple choices of console specs in a generation really messes with that. MS over-hedged with the S, probably because the XboxOne was such a disappointment. They bet on Kinect while Sony just gave us better specs and made out on sales.

 

[eidairaman1]

If people are willing to camp outside stores to pay $500 over MSRP for an RTX 5090, maybe Microsoft can try an $800 console with some Nvidia magic in it. It could fail, it could be a success.
Then again Nintendo keeps proving that hardware isn't necessarily the deciding factor for a success in consoles.

Ms would practically commit suicide with 800 pricetag

 

[AusWolf]

How about no? The reason Consoles (minus Nintendo who have always done their own thing) are the same is X86-64 and integrated graphics on a unified architecture makes developing easy and opens the doors for small developers to write code, compile, test and bug check on common architecture. How about instead they focus on bringing all the AI BS into fruition with better NPC's and gameplay since we are getting that forced on us.

It's also a problem because if the PS5 is just a cheap PC, and an Xbox is just a knock-off PS5, then there's really no need to buy anything other than a PC or PS5 these days. Not to mention, development stops at the weakest link in the chain. If all games have to run on a weak-ass Xbox, then they'll never develop anything to your PC's full capabilities. That's when you get copy-paste games with crappy AI, crappy physics and a bunch of RT just to make sure at least your GPU is put to the test even if no one asked for it.

 

[Paganstomp]

You can only go as far as the latest technology allows. So they need to worry about gameplay that keep people interested for 6 months or 20 years like World of Warcraft has.

 

[sepheronx]

Since valve is making proton emulation for arm, maybe they need to make a really good arm processor. Work with Qualcomm or something and make a solid machine. It may drive further game developers to optimize for arm.

 

[Chaitanya]

Being on x86 is a clear advantage for sure, but the vast majority of development of console only/console first titles happens on regular desktops with dedicated GPUs. Fine-tuning for integrated graphics, shared memory and all the Xbox or PlayStation related hardware specifics is a hindrance, not an advantage. If MS and Sony came to their senses and basically made their own "SteamOS" to run on all kinds of PCs, we would actually remove an unnecessary hurdle for developers. (But I'm not sure I want to give them that idea…)

Sony is an electronics company 1st so they have little to gain from making Playstation OS on the other hand MS is a software company 1st and given the rise of gaming handhelds with majority of them running same AMD x86-64 CPUs there is a massive market to capture with dedicated Xbox OS competiting with SteamOS.

 

[AusWolf]

Sony is an electronics company 1st so they have little to gain from making Playstation OS on the other hand MS is a software company 1st and given the rise of gaming handhelds with majority of them running same AMD x86-64 CPUs there is a massive market to capture with dedicated Xbox OS competiting with SteamOS.

I can't see Microsoft spending any money on developing a dedicated handheld OS when they have Windows. Not that I'd want resource hog Windows in a handheld, but that's just my opinion.

 

[eidairaman1]

I can't see Microsoft spending any money on developing a dedicated handheld OS when they have Windows. Not that I'd want resource hog Windows in a handheld, but that's just my opinion.

Back then they had really good hardware, sidewinder was a greate product line

 

[x4it3n]

Unless they go with Nvidia there won't be much of a difference since AMD will be making both chips... And tbh that's not better Hardware that they need, that's better GAMES !

PlayStation and Nintendo are the 2 big brands because they have a lot of IPs and make great games in general.
Microsoft are just buying studios but most of their newer games have not been sensational, hence the bad results and gamers not wanting to buy XBOX consoles. Also releasing their games on XBOX & PC Day-1 is not going to help sell some XBOX...

I have an idea for Microsoft - how about some sort of always-on camera attachment that goes above your TV, that can track people's bodies to use as motion controls. I bet it would be a huge hit!

Note this is a joke.

Kinect: The Return ? haha

 

[photonboy]

Differentiator?
So... Phil wants "XBox anywhere" on desktop, console & handhelds. Thus the underlying GAME CODE needs to be flexible and agnostic until the end, optimization phase. But he wants a hardware differentiator? The PS5 and XBSX/S have barely begun to tap into the hardware they have. If the hardware is unique, game devs won't code for it. So I have no idea what Phil is trying to say.

The current game coding trajectory is locked in. More ray-tracing. Better AI upscaling. Frame Gen where appropriate (and also where not). Probably a modified Zen5, 8c CPU. You estimate the Shared Memory requirements. 32GB? You put in your 2TB SSD. And most of the decision is how many shaders to put in the GPU.

Honestly, designing the next console is pretty predictable. They'll take existing PC architecture and find the right balance of the hardware that gives the best bang-for-buck and is BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE.

Maybe you can do something unique with dedicated AI upscaling hardware, but Sony's already on that and I assume Microsoft will just modify an NPU like they have already for laptops to reduce the load on the main GPU for the upscaling part.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

So MS is gonna rip off Nintendo now?

 

[Chaitanya]

I can't see Microsoft spending any money on developing a dedicated handheld OS when they have Windows. Not that I'd want resource hog Windows in a handheld, but that's just my opinion.

Unfortunately how things have been going with MS office stand alone being culled and the direction that Windows has been going you maybe right. Win7 was when Windows peaked and since then its been downhill ride with each iteration.

 

[AusWolf]

Unfortunately how things have been going with MS office stand alone being culled and the direction that Windows has been going you maybe right. Win7 was when Windows peaked and since then its been downhill ride with each iteration.

I didn't want to mention that I switched to Linux months ago, and couldn't be happier (I had enough of the bullshit Windows kept throwing at me with updates, backup, Copilot, etc) because it's not the topic here. Even if I had no problems with Windows and Microsoft in general, I still wouldn't want it on a handheld - it uses way too much resource and it's way too fiddly with drivers and other software. I see it on my netbook which takes ages to boot up. I don't want to wipe it and install Linux only because it's a legitimate copy, but if it keeps pissing me off, I will.