AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D

[A Computer Guy]

I was hoping to see 7950x results in the mix.

Is it worth going from 7950x to 9950X3D?

 

[Daven]

Because the hardware is not capable of it. AMD provides a custom scheduler driver that's supposed to inject in games through the Xbox Game Bar, which sets the affinity of the detected game to run on the more appropriate CCD for best performance.

If the OS sees the equivalent of a 9800X3D when the non-X3D is disabled, I see no reason why you would have to enabled Xbox Game Bar or any other setting. The non-X3D CCD is disabled. Who cares about rebooting that much if you only game some of the time?

Of course, with plenty of money, I would just build a 9950X and a 9800X3D computer but the occasional reboot and money saved is much better situation for me.

Edit: A test like this...

Ryzen 7950X3D with One CCD Disabled - The 7800X3D Preview - Performance Summary & Performance per Dollar | TechPowerUp

...would confirm if this is a viable strategy with the Zen 5 series this time around.

 

[Epaminombas]

Because the hardware is not capable of it. AMD provides a custom scheduler driver that's supposed to inject in games through the Xbox Game Bar, which sets the affinity of the detected game to run on the more appropriate CCD for best performance. The caveats of this are obvious:

1. It needs the Xbox Game Bar to be installed, activated and updated
2. AMD and Microsoft need to issue updates for it to work (something which is not guaranteed to happen in the very long term)
3. You can't get the benefits of using both sides of the processor at once. It works better as an 8 core or 8 core+3D cache configuration, rarely if ever well together

You may manually assign processor affinity with a tool like Process Lasso, otherwise the only way to activate or deactivate CCDs is with a system reboot. Ryzen Master should be able to automate that process with a one-click I believe, but it is not a seamless experience.



You seem to be contradicting yourself, because you say that there is no problem, and then you proceed to point out the exact problem, lol.

Windows is not optimized for this topology, and it is very likely that it will never be. Intel's thread director works around this issue seamlessly through hardware-based runtime feedback to the operating system by literally telling it where to issue and physically execute each instruction, something that AMD hardware is not currently capable of.

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

I said that Windows and drivers have no problem scheduling tasks.

What doesn't exist is specific software optimization. SOFTWARE <<< SOFTWARE <<< SOFTWARE.

SOFTWARE like Adobe and games Software like Call of Duty.

If you create a game or software to use only 4 or 6 cores, why do you think the game will use more cores?

You want an R9 9950 to use 16 cores in games that weren't made to use 16 cores.

Games on the Ryzen 9800x3D are already optimized to use the 3DX CACHE, which is exactly why it is the best CPU for gaming today.

Now what you think should happen is that the R9 9950X3D would perform better than the 9800X3D just because it has more cores. But games and software do not use more cores, they were not PROGRAMMED TO USE MORE CORES.

There is no scheduling problem in this.

You do not know the slightest about hardware development and driver creation.

What I say is a fact and there is proof of it.

If there was such a problem, the same game on Linux would perform better just because it was running Linux.

But we know that games on Linux do not perform better. If the Linux Kernel were miraculous, games would be made for them, but they are not.

MacOS, which uses a UNIX-based kernel, would perform better, but it does not.

Android, which uses the Linux Kernel, would perform better.

SteamOS, which uses the Linux Kernel, would perform better, but it also does not.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Me over here in CPU poverty with this 5900x

 

[Toss]

totally skipping this generation. 1 CCD X3D is a scam. My 5950x is more than enough for 4k gaming anyway
Waiting for 16 cores 1 ccd x3d

 

[A Computer Guy]

Me over here in CPU poverty with this 5900x

Although a bit slow in comparison to the newer stuff that's still a great CPU. The glass is half-full my friend.

 

[Dr. Dro]

If the OS sees the equivalent of a 9800X3D when the non-X3D is disabled, I see no reason why you would have to enabled Xbox Game Bar or any other setting. The non-X3D CCD is disabled. Who cares about rebooting that much if you only game some of the time?

Of course, with plenty of money, I would just build a 9950X and a 9800X3D computer but the occasional reboot and money saved is much better situation for me.

Edit: A test like this...

Ryzen 7950X3D with One CCD Disabled - The 7800X3D Preview - Performance Summary & Performance per Dollar | TechPowerUp

...would confirm if this is a viable strategy with the Zen 5 series this time around.

Yeah, it is and remains the same, there was no change in this department. It's that since Zen 5 3D achieves higher clocks, it's not worth purchasing the R9 model to get a few extra MHz. And you naturally wouldn't need both a 9950X and 9800X3D computer, since the 9950X3D could perfectly service the role of the former while being almost as good as the latter with a simple reboot.

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

I said that Windows and drivers have no problem scheduling tasks.

What doesn't exist is specific software optimization. SOFTWARE <<< SOFTWARE <<< SOFTWARE.

SOFTWARE like Adobe and games Software like Call of Duty.

If you create a game or software to use only 4 or 6 cores, why do you think the game will use more cores?

You want an R9 9950 to use 16 cores in games that weren't made to use 16 cores.

Games on the Ryzen 9800x3D are already optimized to use the 3DX CACHE, which is exactly why it is the best CPU for gaming today.

Now what you think should happen is that the R9 9950X3D would perform better than the 9800X3D just because it has more cores. But games and software do not use more cores, they were not PROGRAMMED TO USE MORE CORES.

There is no scheduling problem in this.

You do not know the slightest about hardware development and driver creation.

What I say is a fact and there is proof of it.

If there was such a problem, the same game on Linux would perform better just because it was running Linux.

But we know that games on Linux do not perform better. If the Linux Kernel were miraculous, games would be made for them, but they are not.

MacOS, which uses a UNIX-based kernel, would perform better, but it does not.

Android, which uses the Linux Kernel, would perform better.

SteamOS, which uses the Linux Kernel, would perform better, but it also does not.

How did you deduce all of that from my post? Far too many assumptions being made there, mate. And some accusations that are so baseless that I don't even care to address. I'm fully aware it's a software problem and if you actually bothered to read what I wrote, you'd see that is exactly what I brought up. The point is that it's an if/else situation, the 3D and non 3D sides don't work together as seamlessly as it seems.

 

[Denver]

What happened to intel here? Damn... even at 4k, Arrow lake is lagging so much?

 

[Dr. Dro]

What happened to intel here? Damn... even at 4k, Arrow lake is lagging so much?

View attachment 389012

Yeah, even after the hotfix they released recently. It's a good CPU, but it has some critical regressions that really affect games.

 

[Epaminombas]

There are thousands of benchmark videos of Windows 11 winning in over 90% of games in terms of performance in all types of configurations.

Showing that there is no performance problem in Windows and that there is no superiority of Linux based on CPU task scheduling.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Although a bit slow in comparison to the newer stuff that's still a great CPU. The glass is half-full my friend.

Well the plan is to get a 9800x3d and 9070xt. Now that'll depend on if a 9070xt becomes available in this reality.

 

[mxthunder]

Wake me up in 2 years when the next gen stuff comes out. Not budging from any of my current builds.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Yeah, even after the hotfix they released recently. It's a good CPU, but it has some critical regressions that really affect games.

The regressions are weird too. Everyone points to the fact the memory controller is on a separate die then the compute making for a lot of latency, but AMD does this too and isn't as impacted in gaming so there's obviously a difference in implementation. Suspect next Intel CPUs should fix that but we will see.

There's been some articles if you overclock the interconnect and E cores on the Intel CPUs the gains are pretty big. Kind of want one just to try and mess with for a bit. I'm in the tinkering mood these days.

 

[Epaminombas]

Sim, é e continua o mesmo, não houve nenhuma mudança neste departamento. É que, como o Zen 5 3D atinge clocks mais altos, não vale a pena comprar o modelo R9 para obter alguns MHz extras. E você naturalmente não precisaria de um computador 9950X e 9800X3D, já que o 9950X3D poderia perfeitamente servir ao papel do primeiro, sendo quase tão bom quanto o último com uma reinicialização simples.



Como você deduziu tudo isso do meu post? Muitas suposições sendo feitas aí, cara. E algumas acusações que são tão infundadas que nem me importo em abordar. Estou totalmente ciente de que é um problema de software e se você realmente se incomodasse em ler o que eu escrevi, veria que é exatamente isso que eu trouxe à tona. O ponto é que é uma situação if/else, os lados 3D e não 3D não funcionam juntos tão perfeitamente quanto parece.

AMD never said that CCDs with 3D Cache would work together with CCDs without 3D cache in a single game or software application. It never said that.

In the same way that Intel never said that P cores would work together with E Cores in games and software.

The ones who deduced this were ignorant users on forums and it became a cult.

CCDs with 3XD cache have specific applications and CCDs without cache have other tasks.

P Cores have specific games and software
E Cores have other tasks.

There is no problem with scheduling the operating system, Kernel, Driver.

You need to understand that there is;
- Operating System
- Kernel
- Firmware
- Driver
- API
- Software

Each of these things has specific roles in task scheduling. And you use the word "software" for everything, that is a lack of knowing how to express yourself and a deep understanding of programming and computer engineering.

 

[Dr. Dro]

There are thousands of benchmark videos of Windows 11 winning in over 90% of games in terms of performance in all types of configurations.

Showing that there is no performance problem in Windows and that there is no superiority of Linux based on CPU task scheduling.

View attachment 389014



View attachment 389015

View attachment 389016

I do not understand your point. Windows runs Windows games better because there's no translation layers involved and the graphics drivers are much more mature. This is especially true with Nvidia GPUs, because the Nvidia drivers on Linux are decidedly worse than on Windows and also inferior to AMD's. This advantage cannot be directly attributed to the CPU, especially since you are using a 9800X3D (single-CCD, thus unaffected by any issue and why you would even consider disabling the non 3D side of the 9950X3D) as the reference point.

Linux will currently handle hybrid architectures far, far better than Windows will right now, whether these are heterogeneous architectures like Intel's P/E-core models or AMD's resource imbalanced R9 X3Ds which have two nodes of the exact same type with differing cache sizes. Read the phoronix review, they are a Linux-specialized website.

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D Delivers Excellent Performance For Linux Developers, Creators & Technical Computing Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

AMD never said that CCDs with 3D Cache would work together with CCDs without 3D cache in a single game or software application. It never said that.

In the same way that Intel never said that P cores would work together with E Cores in games and software.

The ones who deduced this were ignorant users on forums and it became a cult.

CCDs with 3XD cache have specific applications and CCDs without cache have other tasks.

P Cores have specific games and software
E Cores have other tasks.

There is no problem with scheduling the operating system, Kernel, Driver.

You need to understand that there is;
- Operating System
- Kernel
- Firmware
- Driver
- API
- Software

Each of these things has specific roles in task scheduling. And you use the word "software" for everything, that is a lack of knowing how to express yourself and a deep understanding of programming and computer engineering.

Please. stop embarrassing yourself... you're honestly using a translator to read my posts, and I doubt it's even translating them correctly. I actually speak English, but if you want to debate this in Portuguese, I'll be happy to oblige in DMs.

 

[medi01]

Intel is in real trouble, I hope there are Threadrippers on the way now that desktop stack is "complete"(missing Ryzen 3 class).

"Poor Intel" at 76.1% of PC market.*

*Say hi to OEMs.**
**Q: Is it different in GPU world? A: Why would it be?

 

[Daven]

Holy Crap! Over at Phoronix, Zen 5 Linux performance is getting crazy good!

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D Delivers Excellent Performance For Linux Developers, Creators & Technical Computing Review - Phoronix

The 9950X3D beats the 7950X3D by 25%!!!
The 9950X beats the 7950X by 20%!!!

I think it's time to admit that Windows is no longer able to recognize new CPU architecture changes like in the past. I suggest that this is due to frequent gen-to-gen IPC competition between AMD and Intel. Microsoft apparently cannot respond like Linux can.

 

[Epaminombas]

Always the same excuses.

Now the excuse for Linux performing worse in games is the drivers from Intel, Nvidia and AMD.

The excuse for Linux performing worse in games is the layer and blablablabla.

Always an excuse when it comes to Linux performing worse.

There is no practical test showing Linux's superiority in something, because Linux software does not exist on Windows.

You show me a benchmark where there is only a comparison of Linux with itself.

And the Linux operating systems in the benchmark are monolithic, lean and running very few applications at the same time. Any Kernel performs better with a monolithic system.

 

[W1zzard]

I was hoping to see 7950x results in the mix.

more results will be added over time

 

[SL2]

but as long as the X3D is on a single CCD

Oh no, not again lol

It's NEVER been proven that two would help much (because it would still be TWO CCD's), and that's why it must be the solution?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Holy Crap! Over at Phoronix, Zen 5 Linux performance is getting crazy good!

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D Delivers Excellent Performance For Linux Developers, Creators & Technical Computing Review - Phoronix

The 9950X3D beats the 7950X3D by 25%!!!
The 9950X beats the 7950X by 20%!!!

I think it's time to admit that Windows is no longer able to recognize new CPU architecture changes like in the past. I suggest that this is due to frequent gen-to-gen IPC competition between AMD and Intel. Microsoft apparently cannot respond like Linux can.

Indeed, that is exactly what I mentioned. It scales much better under Linux, to the point I think using Windows is actually actively detrimental to this architecture. Their results are crazy good. Unfortunately, I cannot give up on Windows just yet, because I like my video games too much.

Oh no, not again lol

It's NEVER been proven that two would help much (because it would still be TWO CCD's), and that's why it must be the solution?

It was proven the moment AMD released the 5950X... 8+8 works, 8 3D + 8 3D would work the exact same. The problem is that resources are reported to Windows as available, but it is not aware of where they are physically present in the processor. Each CCD is effectively a different node, and there are penalties for accessing data on the adjacent node, which is what causes the loss of performance and efficiency seen with these chips under Windows, and arguably why Linux is so much faster.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Holy Crap! Over at Phoronix, Zen 5 Linux performance is getting crazy good!

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D Delivers Excellent Performance For Linux Developers, Creators & Technical Computing Review - Phoronix

The 9950X3D beats the 7950X3D by 25%!!!
The 9950X beats the 7950X by 20%!!!

I think it's time to admit that Windows is no longer able to recognize new CPU architecture changes like in the past. I suggest that this is due to frequent gen-to-gen IPC competition between AMD and Intel. Microsoft apparently cannot respond like Linux can.

Ugh, I can't zoom and read the side of the chart because of the google ad.

 

[Chaitanya]

Indeed, that is exactly what I mentioned. It scales much better under Linux, to the point I think using Windows is actually actively detrimental to this architecture. Their results are crazy good. Unfortunately, I cannot give up on Windows just yet, because I like my video games too much.

For me its not video games rather my photo tools holding me onto windows as I find Mac too restrictive(even though every single of my software has Apple silicon versions available).

 

[Epaminombas]

Holy Crap! Over at Phoronix, Zen 5 Linux performance is getting crazy good!

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D Delivers Excellent Performance For Linux Developers, Creators & Technical Computing Review - Phoronix

The 9950X3D beats the 7950X3D by 25%!!!
The 9950X beats the 7950X by 20%!!!

I think it's time to admit that Windows is no longer able to recognize new CPU architecture changes like in the past. I suggest that this is due to frequent gen-to-gen IPC competition between AMD and Intel. Microsoft apparently cannot respond like Linux can.

All you had to do was warn the creators of Windows software and games to stop creating software and games for Windows.

It seems that these benchmarks have no practical effect for developers.
It's just a benchmark tool that only exists in Linux and made for Linux.

There's no way to even compare these benchmarks against MacOS or Windows because they simply don't exist on them.

And Windows will continue to be strong and popular, you can give $100 to someone to use Linux on their PC, they will rather spend $100 and install Windows than earn $100 to use Linux.
People don't even want Linux for free, they don't want to pay for it either.

 

[Dristun]

Process Lasso has per-app presets that you can set once and forget, and works almost flawlessly, so no need to manually reboot each time. Maybe someone will test a "lassoed" 9950X3D to see what the performance penalty is compared to a standard 9800X3D. But on Alder and Raptor Lake it did good on games that didn't like E-Cores.