Alright. You've hit a magic button and I'm actually hurt. You've taken the point and twisted it so much you're even agreeing with me on a number of points! Why are you attacking me in a way that makes you SEEM right in a non-existing argument?
I've never heard of anyone on these forums (not the schmucks you seem to cling to as your comparison for gamers/people who would use these cards) have an ATI card overheat on them at stock. Hell! One time while I had my water cooling setup on my graphics cards (4870 in crossfire) the motor in my pump melted and the cards hit TJMax and shut my PC down, but it never killed the cards. After all was said and done I reattached the air cooling and they ran perfectly until I could RMA the pump. No failure. Why attack me about ATi cards overheating when you KNOW it's a fan speed fix away from good operating temperatures?
What I've been saying the WHOLE TIME has been that scaling between crossfire and SLI has become so good that single PCI-E slot solutions with dual GPU are less powerful than two single cards on their own. You won't focus on the point I'm making.
While I am dispelling some of the crap you're spewing out about these cards without ever tweaking and maximizing a card out for yourself I am not here to argue about reviews! I could care less because every review I've come across has been different. On other reviews I've seen Guru3D.com has a ton of good reviews and sheets showing which card is the biggest and baddest. The 4870s 512 compare neck and neck with a GTX260 192, but the GTX260s always need a bit of an increase as their stock clocks are 576/1242/2000. You would change the values and you'd change the fan speeds to get the most out of your card, so stop being a hypocrite. If someone can crank the crap out of two single cards and get higher #s in frames or benches that makes the dual card solution only appealing for restrictive PCI-E configurations. Give up the attitude and face facts. You're showing that SLI/Crossfire is improving because the motherboard is improving and I'm seeing through results with forum members that it's gone beyond the bridge chip!
Do me a huge favor and stick to the point. I believe the GTX295 will not hold up against 2x GTX260 216 in clocks/temps/results.
And as I told you in the first reply I KNOW it probably won't be faster!! It's a shame you are unable to read, if that's all what you are discussing. It doesn't matter if it doesn't, this is not a thread about GTX260 SLI, it's about the GTX295. 2x HD4870 are faster than a single X2 (not always though) and way cheaper right now, but doesn't mean the X2 is not worth of a card isn't it?? As I proved above the GTX260 scales better, that goes directly against the opinions that first, Crossfire scales better, and second that the GTX295 WILL be slower. Maybe yes, maybe not, but with the facts we already have the GTX295 has all the chances of being much better of a card. Assuming that the dual card won't scale as well comparatively to what the X2 is capable of is stupid. It doesn't need to be faster than GTX260 SLI, just the X2, that's what I've been discussing all the time. So far we know:
1- Chip in 65nm incarnation already scales better in dual card configs, beyond what the X2 and RV770 crossfire can do, while consuming less.
2- news/rumors from respectable sources that told that a 55nm 240 SP GT200 based Quadro card with 4GB of ram running at 650 Mhz, has 160W TDP compared to 234w of it's 65nm daddy or 183W of the GTX260.
3- in the past generation both dual cards from both vendors were "close" to their crossfired single cards, but the GX2 was underclocked (600 vs 675) and the X2 was clocked above its single card cousin (825 vs 775), which suggests the G92 already scaled better in the GX2 than the X2, IN A TIME where crossfire by itself scaled much better than SLI.
With those precedents the GTX295 has all the chances to be a fast, cool and not so power hungry card. Deliberately forgetting about those facts, lemonade made his BS comments and you followed suit. I respond.
It doesn't matter if a multicard slution is faster, it has always been, it will always be (until they make it viewable as a single card, single frame buffer card), but a single card solution even if it's dual has a lot of benefits and is definately worth to exist. No more no less Crossfired HD4850s are as fast as the X2 and far cheaper, but many people here, that have to know that fact, chose to go with the X2. 2xGTX260 are going to be faster, probably, but the GTX295 has a place in the market, right next to the X2 and it will probably be better on every front as I explained. So why in the hell has the X2 the right to exist but not the 295? That's what I've been discussing. You should had read better if everything you were replying to was that 2xGTX260 will still be faster, I said so in my first reply after the one calling BS on lemonade. What a waste of time. But given the facts and the rumors I have no doubt it will be both cooler and consume less than 2xGTX260 on the other hand.
About the overheating issues, I don't care what you heard or whatnot, there's been a lot of those in these forums and you will find a lot just googling. Prior to your post I had never heard of that problem with the GTX280s instead and God knows that there are far less entries when you google it that with the RV770. I guess that means we are tied, I know you seem to think you are the beholder of ABSOTUTE TRUTH, but it's not the case. Just as with the opinion that Nvidia is in the past, you are not right here. RV770 has as many overheating issues as the GT200 and has no IHS, so couldn't it be maybe because of the increasing processing power than EVERY new generation card suffers from some overheating samples and that we don't need to find a guilt???? I ask.
EDIT:
http://en.expreview.com/2008/12/09/geforce-gtx295-with-480sp-surely-to-come-in-ces-09.html
Maybe not the best source Expreview, they've been pretty right lately. 289w TDP, so much less than 2x260GTX and HD4870 X2.
It was... it was then? I don't doubt it... i think alot of xfire issues are caused by lag in AMD's driver department (which is located in the basement of the building - and their boss only goes down there to to steal their red stapler)
eek