GeForce GTX 295 Preview Suggests Aggressive Pricing

[Wile E]

I really wish nVidia would stop with the pcb sandwich on their dual gpu cards. It makes it so I can't use universal blocks, and GX2 specific blocks usually cast a small fortune.

 

[newtekie1]

It's going to have to be cheaper, I think.

People going for this will be fence sitting between this and 2x 206b GTX260 revised in SLI. To make economic sense, it needs to be the same price or cheaper than 2x current GTX260 prices.

This has never needed to be the case with these dual-GPU cards. They are almost always more expensive than two single cards, mainly because the single cards also require a more expensive motherboard.

"Nvidia" and "cheaper prices" has never fit into a sentence before! I am so happy that they are finally becoming competative.

I never understand these comments, though they are usually made by ATi fanboys. NVidia is usually always competitive with prices when there is actually something to be competitive with. NVidia has had the price to performance crown in virtually every segment since the release of the G80 cards.

 

[wolf]

cant wait to see if this thing overclocks, hec at 650 core, 1300-1350 shaders and 2200 memory it will kick even more ass

 

[Animalpak]

damn this card performance is somethin amazing... 4870X2 totally Owned !

 

[jbunch07]

damn this card performance is somethin amazing... 4870X2 totally Owned !

thats where the 5870X2 comes into play.

 

[wolf]

thats where the 5870X2 comes into play.

bet it isn't here as soon as the GTX295, imo a decent way into 09'

 

[newconroer]

damn this card performance is somethin amazing... 4870X2 totally Owned !

Eh? What did you see that indicates any 'ownage?'

Crysis up by six frames?

I'll be the first to admit, that I think the X2 is a complete flop and I own one.
If 295 was a single core, I could at least say 'well that's good for a single core, as it's trading blows with the X2' but it isn't. It's a dual GPU solution, that's only marginally better (or often worse).


Maybe I'm confused, but is this Nvidia's new line up, or their temporary 'answer' to ATi, while they set to release a "GT300" in mid 2009?

Because anyone with a X2, SLI/Crossfire of GT200/4xxx series, or even a GTX 280, needn't bother running out and buying one. If they were that needy, they could have just bought an X2 for a few select games where it has a purpose.

I'll say it again, the current architecture/trend of GPUs is shameful. They need a break through, and soon, or else this 'my card is bigger than your card(even though the performance isn't relative) is going to go on and on and...

 

[newtekie1]

thats where the 5870X2 comes into play.

We won't be seeing any 5000 series cards until late Q3 2009, maybe even Q4. That gives this card a good 6 month head starts.

Eh? What did you see that indicates any 'ownage?'

Crysis up by six frames?

I'll be the first to admit, that I think the X2 is a complete flop and I own one.
If 295 was a single core, I could at least say 'well that's good for a single core, as it's trading blows with the X2' but it isn't. It's a dual GPU solution, that's only marginally better (or often worse).


Maybe I'm confused, but is this Nvidia's new line up, or their temporary 'answer' to ATi, while they set to release a "GT300" in mid 2009?

Because anyone with a X2, SLI/Crossfire of GT200/4xxx series, or even a GTX 280, needn't bother running out and buying one. If they were that needy, they could have just bought an X2 for a few select games where it has a purpose.

I'll say it again, the current architecture/trend of GPUs is shameful. They need a break through, and soon, or else this 'my card is bigger than your card(even though the performance isn't relative) is going to go on and on and...

If you read the article, there are some pretty signifigant gains made by the GTX295. It does seem that it doesn't like the CryEngine at 2560x1600 right now, but that is likely driver issues.

If you just take the two top resolutions, because they are the least likely to have CPU bottlenecking, the GTX295 averages to be over 16% better than the HD4870x2. That is no small feat. Yes, the actual FPS difference in some instances might not be that high, but it still shows you how powerful this GPU is, and it is only likely to get better as driver improve for it.

As for what this is from nVidia, it is a product refresh, likely partially a responce to ATi. Yes, it is a stop gap between GT300. However, that is what nVidia does, they almost always release a product refresh in a series, usually with a die shrink.

 

[Animalpak]

Eh? What did you see that indicates any 'ownage?'

Crysis up by six frames?

I'll be the first to admit, that I think the X2 is a complete flop and I own one.
If 295 was a single core, I could at least say 'well that's good for a single core, as it's trading blows with the X2' but it isn't. It's a dual GPU solution, that's only marginally better (or often worse).


Maybe I'm confused, but is this Nvidia's new line up, or their temporary 'answer' to ATi, while they set to release a "GT300" in mid 2009?

Because anyone with a X2, SLI/Crossfire of GT200/4xxx series, or even a GTX 280, needn't bother running out and buying one. If they were that needy, they could have just bought an X2 for a few select games where it has a purpose.

I'll say it again, the current architecture/trend of GPUs is shameful. They need a break through, and soon, or else this 'my card is bigger than your card(even though the performance isn't relative) is going to go on and on and...

Well if you see the tests and the article, the FPS that score this card actually is much more faster than the 4870X2. That means the X2 is NOT the world fastest card anymore. This is why i said " Owned ".

I think the 9800 GX2 was the best card ever made after the 8800 Ultra/GTX. Now this is the new "GX2" and is really ready to kick some asses.

 

[Analog_Manner]

I dunno, Nvidia can do better.

I think a dual 280 would be better than a dual 260. I wonder if the reason they used two 260's is because they can't use 280. Possibly heat/power problems or something?

 

[Animalpak]

I dunno, Nvidia can do better.

I think a dual 280 would be better than a dual 260. I wonder if the reason they used two 260's is because they can't use 280. Possibly heat/power problems or something?

Yes me too, i think is the same fact as the old GX2 ( 2x8800 GT) the 8800 GT was not the best single card ever, they can do better if with ( 2x8800 Ultra )...

 

[Black Panther]

I find it weird that they don't compare with the GTX280 in that review...

 

[newtekie1]

I dunno, Nvidia can do better.

I think a dual 280 would be better than a dual 260. I wonder if the reason they used two 260's is because they can't use 280. Possibly heat/power problems or something?

This isn't just a dual 260 card. It is more of a hybrid actually. It has the core configuration of the GTX280(240SPs), but the memory configuration of the GTX260. I would guess they did it this way to reduce PCB complexity. It is likely one of the reasons this card can be sold at the $500 price point. The missing memory and memory bus won't likely affect performance too greatly.

 

[mdm-adph]

This isn't just a dual 260 card. It is more of a hybrid actually. It has the core configuration of the GTX280(240SPs), but the memory configuration of the GTX260. I would guess they did it this way to reduce PCB complexity. It is likely one of the reasons this card and be sold at the $500 price point. The missing memory and memory bus won't likely affect performance too greatly.

That's true -- this card doesn't have the be the fastest thing possible -- just faster than the 4870X2, so Nvidia can grab the bragging rights back.

 

[newconroer]

Well if you see the tests and the article, the FPS that score this card actually is much more faster than the 4870X2. That means the X2 is NOT the world fastest card anymore. This is why i said " Owned ".

I think the 9800 GX2 was the best card ever made after the 8800 Ultra/GTX. Now this is the new "GX2" and is really ready to kick some asses.

No, I think I am seeing the tests, and you're seeing what you want to see.

The major thing that stuck out to me, was how with AA applied at 1920 or greater, that the 295 would start to fall behind by up to ten frames in the minimum FPS category; and on the maximum FPS scale, it only had leads of two to four frames (and sometimes DOWN by two to four frames). As mentioned before only Crysis seemed to 'represent!'


And for Newtekie, 16%? Woo, hot damn! So impressive; what is that spread over, the 1680 resolution tests?

I really don't care if there's some underlying 'advancement' in design that allows a new piece of hardware to perform to a certain standard, unless it's an actual architectural change that will allow for future gains. No such change exists in the 295, and probably won't in the 300 with the way things are going.

Thus, it's all down to numbers.

That's true -- this card doesn't have the be the fastest thing possible -- just faster than the 4870X2, so Nvidia can grab the bragging rights back.

Which is ridiculous and unimportant to the end user. I don't care if it's faster than the X2, I want it to be the best it can be. It's called quality products; maybe these companies should consider making some, rather than increasing their E-peen.

 

[newtekie1]

No, I think I am seeing the tests, and you're seeing what you want to see.

The major thing that stuck out to me, was how with AA applied at 1920 or greater, that the 295 would start to fall behind by up to ten frames in the minimum FPS category; and on the maximum FPS scale, it only had leads of two to four frames (and sometimes DOWN by two to four frames). As mentioned before only Crysis seemed to 'represent!'

The only time the 295 fell behind in with AA applied at 1920 or higher was in the CryEngine games and Fallout 3. And even then, it is only at 2560x1600, which is likely a driver issue more than anything else, remember these are still very beta drivers. If you look at the 1920x1200 resolutions with AA in Far Cry 2, the gap between the HD4870x2 and the GTX295 is actually larger than the non AA test at the same resolution.

And for Newtekie, 16%? Woo, hot damn! So impressive; what is that spread over, the 1680 resolution tests?

16% is huge in the graphics card world. The gap between the HD4870x2 and GTX280 is only 5% overall, so 16% is huge. I don't really care about the 1680x1050 resolution and lower with these cards, people buying $500 graphics cards shouldn't be pairing them with low resolution monitors. These cards are meant to be used at high resolutions, that is where they both shine.

I really don't care if there's some underlying 'advancement' in design that allows a new piece of hardware to perform to a certain standard, unless it's an actual architectural change that will allow for future gains. No such change exists in the 295, and probably won't in the 300 with the way things are going.

Thus, it's all down to numbers.

I don't care how the performance is there, as long as it is.

Which is ridiculous and unimportant to the end user. I don't care if it's faster than the X2, I want it to be the best it can be. It's called quality products; maybe these companies should consider making some, rather than increasing their E-peen.

Being the best it can be doesn't just include the best possible performance, if that performance comes at an insane price point, then it isn't the best it can be. The HD4870x2 wasn't nearly the best it could be, simply because it was priced insanely high compared to the minor performance improvement it offered. It is useless to make a product "the best it can be" if it won't sell.

 

[Hayder_Master]

gtx 280 is out , i want see the gtx 280 owners how they feel now

 

[a_ump]

well yea nvidia took the crown back, and newteckie you say they'll have a 6 month start into 09, well ATI had a 6month start on the HD 4870x2. Also wasn't it said in a few websites that the RV870 was due Q1 09? not Q3 09?, i definetely think it's possible.

 

[newtekie1]

well yea nvidia took the crown back, and newteckie you say they'll have a 6 month start into 09, well ATI had a 6month start on the HD 4870x2. Also wasn't it said in a few websites that the RV870 was due Q1 09? not Q3 09?, i definetely think it's possible.

Indeed the HD4870x2 will be out 5 months by the time the GTX295 hits the market. But that doesn't really affect my point. When the HD4870x2 was coming out, people were not saying "well the GTX295 is just around the corner so we shouldn't care". I'm not going to consider products that are 6+ months away, and not even actually officially announce, in my buying decisision.

I wouldn't be counting on RV870 being out any time soon, last I read June 2009. And it won't be a dual GPU core, now it is looking like little more than a die shrink of the RV770. R800 is going to be the dual GPU card and isn't likely to be out until a month or two after RV870's release, just like R700 and RV770.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

If you are going to compare the new Nvidia dual gpu with pre-release drivers to the 4870x2 with fully mature drivers you are stacking the cards against Nvidias offering.

If Nvidia has still a good margin better under that comparison its set to be even better around the time its a couple weeks old with better drivers. Lets not think early measurements are accurate for the life of a card.

 

[a_ump]

If you are going to compare the new Nvidia dual gpu with pre-release drivers to the 4870x2 with fully mature drivers you are stacking the cards against Nvidias offering.

If Nvidia has still a good margin better under that comparison its set to be even better around the time its a couple weeks old with better drivers. Lets not think early measurements are accurate for the life of a card.

true, and i've also seen and read that nvidia usually manages about 10-15% more performance out of cards with drivers from their release to about 3-5months after.

 

[PP Mguire]

For everybody saying things about its looks. Thats just reference. Im sure each manufacturer will have something to make it look better.

 

[Analog_Manner]

Eh? What did you see that indicates any 'ownage?'

Crysis up by six frames?

I'll be the first to admit, that I think the X2 is a complete flop and I own one.
If 295 was a single core, I could at least say 'well that's good for a single core, as it's trading blows with the X2' but it isn't. It's a dual GPU solution, that's only marginally better (or often worse).


Maybe I'm confused, but is this Nvidia's new line up, or their temporary 'answer' to ATi, while they set to release a "GT300" in mid 2009?

Because anyone with a X2, SLI/Crossfire of GT200/4xxx series, or even a GTX 280, needn't bother running out and buying one. If they were that needy, they could have just bought an X2 for a few select games where it has a purpose.

I'll say it again, the current architecture/trend of GPUs is shameful. They need a break through, and soon, or else this 'my card is bigger than your card(even though the performance isn't relative) is going to go on and on and...

So, looking at relative performance, the GTX 280 is only 6-7% slower than the 4870x2
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4870_X2_Atomic_Watercooled/26.html
So it takes 2 of ATI's best gpu's to compete with Nvidia's best single gpu card!
What's even more odd, is that the 9800GX2 is only 1% behind the gtx 280.
So nividia's dual-gpu card from March of last year trades blows with ATI's current offering.

 

[Black Panther]

Anybody else think it looks like an old VHS tape?

I really hope the price is good... I'd also have to change PSU to get that.
Or at least, if the price isn't good, that the 280GTX price will drop a lot when it's released. Because come to think of it I'd need to change PSU even for the 280...

 

[PP Mguire]

Of course all reference boards look pooish. I wanna see what XFX does with it :drool: