AMD Preps First AM3-based Sempron Processors

[newtekie1]

its true and at the same time its not, newtekie.

The people most interested in using XP's virtualisation inst your mum 'n dad situation - its enthusiasts or tech support at small businesses who are going to be running this. In that situation, it wouldnt be surprising to find high end CPU's, low end CPU's overclocked, or 50 machines running celerons.

While i agree its not as bad as it sounds, many chips DO support it - it WILL cause problems for budget intel users, thats guaranteed. AFter 7 is out I expect no less than one thread a month about it here on TPU, even after we put up a damned sticky.

That is true, but I find it hard to believe that people that are willing to shell out the extra cash for Win7 Business or Ultimate are going to be running it on extreme low end hardware like this.

I agree, it will be a problem when it comes to some of the people running on E5000 and E7000 processor, as those are rather mid-range. Though I think Intel has realized their mistake in disabling Virtualization with those processors, which is why the latest E7600 and E6300 both have it enabled again.

XP Mode is only being implemented in the higher end versions of Win7, because those versions tend to be run on higher end hardware. I know this isn't always the case, as there are always a small few that don't fall into the trend.

you are quite WRONG on this account, alot of large companies buy whatever is cheapist that can do what they want, One company around here recently bought a bunch of atom based mini desktops, singel core models, they wanted them for the reception staff and people who just use office and such, alot of companies do that kinda thing, its suprising how many infact, school districts do that as well, if dell/gateway/exct offers systems with these in them at a low price, alot of companies will buy them for systems that really dont need alot of power.

Hell I went in to our local DSHS office a few weeks back with a friend and found out they now have dual monitor dell thin client systems, pentium-d based, they are around 1 year old now from what the lady said, they have dual screens because they where cheaper then buying one large screen for each system, Im quite sure the p-d was chosen because thats what dell was trying to dump on govt agencys and gave them a killer price on them, they do the job, they arent fast, but really, they dont need to be they are office machiens.

and if you think this is bad, I know of a company in oregon thats slowly replacing their older desktop systems with eeepc's *shudders*

I never said companies don't use weak hardware, so I'm certainly not wrong, I completely understand that there are plenty of business that use lackluster hardware like this Sempron.

However, my point was that the companies running cheaper hardware, are cheap in the software side also. Most of them will probably either stick with XP to avoid the costs of upgrading to Win7, or if they do upgrade, will likely do so to a lower version that doesn't even have XP Mode. And if they are upgrading with the expectation of using XP Mode, they would be stupid to not make sure their cheap hardware supports it first.

How many of these same companies that buy the cheapest machines possible are also going to say "it doesn't need anything more than Win7 Basic, they are office machines"?

 

[Mussels]

That is true, but I find it hard to believe that people that are willing to shell out the extra cash for Win7 Business or Ultimate are going to be running it on extreme low end hardware like this.

I find it even harder to beleive, that a business is going to throw another $100 per machine to get this feature, when they could just stick with what they have and XP.
(and i mean $100 on top of whatever their budget new 7 systems would have cost)

XP Mode is only being implemented in the higher end versions of Win7, because those versions tend to be run on higher end hardware. I know this isn't always the case, as there are always a small few that don't fall into the trend.

Businesses always use cheap hardware. always. have a look around, high end in an office means a pentium D.

I never said companies don't use weak hardware, so I'm certainly not wrong, I completely understand that there are plenty of business that use lackluster hardware like this Sempron.

nothing to argue here... moving along

However, my point was that the companies running cheaper hardware, are cheap in the software side also. Most of them will probably either stick with XP to avoid the costs of upgrading to Win7, or if they do upgrade, will likely do so to a lower version that doesn't even have XP Mode. And if they are upgrading with the expectation of using XP Mode, they would be stupid to not make sure their cheap hardware supports it first.

hmmm... i made that point too. soon we shall align, and form a solar eclipse.

How many of these same companies that buy the cheapest machines possible are also going to say "it doesn't need anything more than Win7 Basic, they are office machines"?

I think we stopped disagreeing. The companies are either going to buy the cheapest ones with hardware and software not capable of virtualisation, or just stick with the XP machines they have.

 

[Disparia]

^ Don't group all businesses together - I'm the admin of one of them

For non-IT, we're looking at upgrading our users with Phenom X3/3GB boxes and for IT, some i7 action!!

Though I admit there are some P4D boxes around here currently.

 

[Mussels]

^ Don't group all businesses together - I'm the admin of one of them

For non-IT, we're looking at upgrading our users with Phenom X3/3GB boxes and for IT, some i7 action!!

Though I admit there are some P4D boxes around here currently.

even your business, with i7 machines still has P4's hanging around - thats my point. Nothing gets updated unless its needed. To run windows 7 with virtual XP, they need updated hardware... why, when the old hardware can run XP fine?

Then again, one i7 system could probably run ALL those P4's in virtual systems and remote desktop over thinware clients, and still have more overall power

 

[filip007]

Enebody use this AMD-V last time it bloked both my system when i try to use it with Virtual PC so is not that good...

and only AMD makes 45W DTP CPUs but with this score is not any beetter than Intel with 65W

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/850/14/

 

[newtekie1]

I find it even harder to beleive, that a business is going to throw another $100 per machine to get this feature, when they could just stick with what they have and XP.
(and i mean $100 on top of whatever their budget new 7 systems would have cost)



Businesses always use cheap hardware. always. have a look around, high end in an office means a pentium D.



nothing to argue here... moving along


hmmm... i made that point too. soon we shall align, and form a solar eclipse.


I think we stopped disagreeing. The companies are either going to buy the cheapest ones with hardware and software not capable of virtualisation, or just stick with the XP machines they have.

I think for the most part we are on the same page. Businesses are more than likely going to stick with what they have, hardware and software wise or upgrade to new hardware with Win7 included. In the case of an upgrade, if they buy a computer with one of the versions of Win7 that can actually run XP Mode, it will likely have hardware that can do it also, and it won't be this Sempron.

 

[Mussels]

^ agreed.

(Hooray )

 

[Disparia]

even your business, with i7 machines still has P4's hanging around - thats my point. Nothing gets updated unless its needed. To run windows 7 with virtual XP, they need updated hardware... why, when the old hardware can run XP fine?

Then again, one i7 system could probably run ALL those P4's in virtual systems and remote desktop over thinware clients, and still have more overall power

Meant to say that every station will be replaced with an X3/i7 system shortly, but yes, I see yer point. I also don't get why others would upgrade just to use XP in a VM. We're going pure Windows 7.

Perhaps too many of them bought into Software Assurance.

 

[Mussels]

Perhaps too many of them bought into Software Assurance.

too many of them hired some kid fresh out of uni/college to code them a program on the cheap, and forgot to plan ahead when asking him what to code.

 

[Valdez]

i love windows 2K its my backup OS. 64MB of ram, and it works fine. If you found a way to have sex with 2K and got it pregnant, it would still be lighter than XP.

rofl

 

[extrasalty]

I think everyone forgets 1 Euro doesn't equal 1.5 USD- therefore assuming it will cost $50 is wrong. Currently LE-1640 and LE-1660 are between 30-35 Euro and around $40.
Secondly, I'm tired of people stating single core is dead. It's not. It won't be. People believe marketing too much.
Those processors have purpose- just like the Atom. People forget that the Atom is crippled by Intel, so it doesn't cannibalize their mainstream. Atoms are not for crunching or virtualization.
Quick check on newegg- Intel doesn't have anything cheaper than $40(Celeron 430) and nothing except the above Celeron(at least on paper) below 45W. So in a way this new Sempron is competing with Atoms. When you add the price of the motherboard, it will wind up around $80-85- much like the Atom. With the difference of real PCIe x16 and DD3. Now which one has more value?
So in the end this is a niche product- it won't be too popular, but it's part of AMD strategy to improve their yields.

 

[filip007]

So much about AMD power efficiency !!!

 

[newtekie1]

I think everyone forgets 1 Euro doesn't equal 1.5 USD- therefore assuming it will cost $50 is wrong. Currently LE-1640 and LE-1660 are between 30-35 Euro and around $40.
Secondly, I'm tired of people stating single core is dead. It's not. It won't be. People believe marketing too much.
Those processors have purpose- just like the Atom. People forget that the Atom is crippled by Intel, so it doesn't cannibalize their mainstream. Atoms are not for crunching or virtualization.
Quick check on newegg- Intel doesn't have anything cheaper than $40(Celeron 430) and nothing except the above Celeron(at least on paper) below 45W. So in a way this new Sempron is competing with Atoms. When you add the price of the motherboard, it will wind up around $80-85- much like the Atom. With the difference of real PCIe x16 and DD3. Now which one has more value?
So in the end this is a niche product- it won't be too popular, but it's part of AMD strategy to improve their yields.

Desktop processors like this certainly don't compete with Atom. Atom is meant to be small, and put out as little heat/use a little power as possible. An entire Atom system, with the shitty 945 chipset, still only consumes 20w. This Sempron consumes more than the entire system...

This processor is mean specifically to compete with Intel's Celerons. You also have to realize that the current Celerons are still 65nm, the 45nm Celerons should be hitting the market soon, with better thermal characteristics.

And the fact remains, if I had my choice between The X1 140 and the E1400, I would take the E1400, and both should be prices pretty similarly.

And the single core market is pretty much dead, with the exception of the netbook and nettop markets, for wich this processor really isn't suited for.

 

[t77snapshot]

I'm still running an old Sempron 3200+ 1.8GHz in one of my other rigs. It's nice to see the Sempron back in action

 

[Meecrob]

That is true, but I find it hard to believe that people that are willing to shell out the extra cash for Win7 Business or Ultimate are going to be running it on extreme low end hardware like this.

I agree, it will be a problem when it comes to some of the people running on E5000 and E7000 processor, as those are rather mid-range. Though I think Intel has realized their mistake in disabling Virtualization with those processors, which is why the latest E7600 and E6300 both have it enabled again.

XP Mode is only being implemented in the higher end versions of Win7, because those versions tend to be run on higher end hardware. I know this isn't always the case, as there are always a small few that don't fall into the trend.



I never said companies don't use weak hardware, so I'm certainly not wrong, I completely understand that there are plenty of business that use lackluster hardware like this Sempron.

However, my point was that the companies running cheaper hardware, are cheap in the software side also. Most of them will probably either stick with XP to avoid the costs of upgrading to Win7, or if they do upgrade, will likely do so to a lower version that doesn't even have XP Mode. And if they are upgrading with the expectation of using XP Mode, they would be stupid to not make sure their cheap hardware supports it first.

How many of these same companies that buy the cheapest machines possible are also going to say "it doesn't need anything more than Win7 Basic, they are office machines"?

Software Assurance clients will look at this(alot of large companies got involved in this and maps)

Now logically WE wouldn't be all excited about XP mode because WE know its no big deal, but look at how many large companies endup with crapware because some manager read something about this wonderful crapware and told the IT dept to rush out and buy it.

In this case, it makes sense at least in the way of new systems that are ordered pre-setup with windows, large companies I have worked for many times have dell pre-install the OS and base apps for them now days rather then have their own IT guys do it, OR they have hdd replicators and just setup one of the new systems and clone the drive to all the others, and Im not saying its smart to use lowend hardware for visualization but who ever knew a noob to be smart? and most people out there are really noobs where tech is concerned, they buy into the hype and marketing, one of the best was watching a large realestate firm around here buy into this "marketing program" that was nothing more then a canned website with a cms backend that let them post new listings easily, they spent tends of thousands on it, when it was ALL FREE SOFTWARE, some company just set it up for them and sent them a how to guide on how to use it....god that was sad, their website and listings looked so cheezy(what you would expect from canned websites)

its like all the companies that use FOSS (free open source software) as the core of retail apps, making bank from very little work, many times they just build a frontend using .net then sell the app like they built the whole thing :/

if you want a good example check out ffmpeg's hall of sham http://ffmpeg.org/shame.html

alot of those apps use ffmpeg and other FOSS software's as the core or bulk of their app, just slapping a nice gui on it and charging money for it........

blah, i agree with what your saying for the most part, but logic dosnt mean dick in the real business world, Till you have delt with this kinda person/entity yourself you have no idea how illogical they really can be.........

watch these 3 videos the bottem 2 are pretty relevant they are all funny as hell
http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com/
then you will have a SMALL clue how bad it really is when you work for/with the kind of morons that run the business world these days :S

 

[tastegw]

So much about AMD power efficiency !!!

http://media.bestofmicro.com/S/9/151353/original/17.png

pull one up for idle comsumption.

alot of office pc's never reach anything over 25%% useage, im on my work office pc with a few beefy programs open and im running under 10%

 

[hat]

... is it unlockable to dual core?

So much about AMD power efficiency !!!

http://media.bestofmicro.com/S/9/151353/original/17.png

yeah, I believe that.

 

[newtekie1]

blah, i agree with what your saying for the most part, but logic dosnt mean dick in the real business world, Till you have delt with this kinda person/entity yourself you have no idea how illogical they really can be.........

watch these 3 videos the bottem 2 are pretty relevant they are all funny as hell
http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com/
then you will have a SMALL clue how bad it really is when you work for/with the kind of morons that run the business world these days :S

Oh I completely agree, my company provides support for a lot of companies, most of whom are filled with complete idiots when it comes to computers and technologies.

However, like I've already said, these companies are not going to go through entire company wide upgrades to Win7 if they have low end equipment. These are the idiots that think nothing past XP is good, remember. And any new computers they get, that come with Win7, assuming they are looking to actually use XP Mode, will have hardware to back it up, and again it will not be this sempron.

This sempron will be put into complete trash throw away computers. I don't doubt companies will buy them. However, the computer will come with Win7 Basic, maybe Home Premium, not any version that will support XP Mode. Because it doesn't make sense for a computer company to sell a low end computer with a higher end operating system. The idea is to keep the machine as cheap as possible, and hence they will use the cheapest operating system they can.

... is it unlockable to dual core?

I hope so, but something tells me AMD might have learned from that mistake and physically disable the core before shipping the processors.

I'm still running an old Sempron 3200+ 1.8GHz in one of my other rigs. It's nice to see the Sempron back in action

Still running a Sempron 2600+ here, AKA Athlon XP 2200+...

 

[Meecrob]

oh, you see them say vista sucks, till one of the execs gets a laptop with vista and ends up loving it, then u see them all start wanting it *groans* this will become more common with 7 as its more noobish(macish).

and it doesn't matter what the system comes with for large companies, most of them will wipe it and install their own apps, this is for a few reasons, but mostly because even buisness class systems come with trialware like office trial and such, they tend to own office and the whole office uses a specific version, I haven't seen many businesses or schooles/govt agencies that dont wipe the system and do a clean install if they didnt get dell/gateway/exct to put EXACTLY what they wanted on the system to start, it makes sense if your doing alot of support to try and get all the systems as alike as possible, same drivers and patch levels, saves time trying to track down issues on a stack of systems all running diffrent windows versions/patch levels/drivers.

I can about guarantee that our local library system will end up with these or something similar(whatever dell or gateway offer) their head IT guy avoided intel the last 2 times they upgraded, from what I have been told he dosnt like Intel as a company, also hes had less issues with the AMD builds then the ones they replaced(all dell systems from when dell only offered intel)

He wont want vitalization most likely BUT he will probably endup with 7 on them as I KNOW the library has a software assurance type deal with MS that lets them upgrade their software cheaply.

BUT i could be wrong about the XP mode thing at the library, they do have some older apps they STILL RUN on them as they try and get the totally web based system debugged, ones for searching certain types of articles over an OLD ASS network thats still in use across the nation if not world, it works, but its SLOW(i only have used it 2x, but alot of people I know used it to do work for college classes as its considered a use able source of information by most teachers.

 

[LittleLizard]

me want to replace my dying p4

 

[btarunr]

Most of the computers that come with this processor will likely come with Win7 Home Premium, which won't have XP mode anyway...

And that's besides the point. If you want to use it, you can use it. But with the $160 Core 2 Quad Q8200, if you want to use it, you can't.

 

[joshiers8605]

ha, i'm using a sempron 3000+ socket 754 as we speak since my mb went out for my dual core

 

[Hayder_Master]

i see there is no sense to get AM3 mobo with DRR3 ram's and put Sempron cpu

 

[newtekie1]

And that's besides the point. If you want to use it, you can use it. But with the $160 Core 2 Quad Q8200, if you want to use it, you can't.

Yes, I understand that, and I've already mentioned at least once that I believe Intel has realized the mistake in disabling Virtualization on lower pricessors. I believe this is evident by the fact that it is not disabled on newer processors being released, that are lower end. Such as the E7600 and E6300, when previously the E7000 series and the Pentium Dual-Core series did not have Virtualization.

Though I think they were really thrown for a loop when Microsoft announced that XP Mode would require Virtualization technology. Virtual PC has never required this before, and there is really no reason that it should require it, it should run fine without it, granted it will have worse performance, but at least it will run.

 

[LittleLizard]

i see there is no sense to get AM3 mobo with DRR3 ram's and put Sempron cpu

ddr3 is getting cheaper and also is eco friendly so thats why they made it compatible with ddr3