NVIDIA Shuns Lucid Hydra

[theubersmurf]

No hes right. They did offer it but the details were never fully disclosed. Just a lot of PR BS basically.

Not that it was offered, that it was offered for free.

 

[PP Mguire]

Okay then. Im going back to my hot pockets.

I can haz hotpocketzz?

 

[Munki]

I can haz hotpocketzz?

I don't know, can you?

 

[Benetanegia]

Provide evidence of this claim.

When you provide proofs that DX10.1 was removed because of Nvidia, or that Nvidia specifically asked not to implement AA in Batman, I'll start searching for the proofs that Nvidia did offer it for free. They have said so many times, AMD has not replied, so I guess they agree?

 

[TheMailMan78]

So that it becomes widely used?

REALLY DUDE? REALLY?!

 

[theubersmurf]

When you provide proofs that DX10.1 was removed because of Nvidia, or that Nvidia specifically asked not to implement AA in Batman, I'll start searching for the proofs that Nvidia did offer it for free. They have said so many times, AMD has not replied, so I guess they agree?

You've made the claim voraciously throughout the thread, I'm not the guy in the argument with you over the AA in batman, I think you're responding to someone else. I want to see this documented. If you want it to be considered a point that you've made, you have to substantiate it. I don't give a damn about batman or assassins creed, I'm discussing a completely different point.

 

[Benetanegia]

You've made the claim voraciously throughout the thread, I'm not the guy in the argument with you over the AA in batman, I think you're responding to someone else. I want to see this documented. If you want it to be considered a point that you've made, you have to substantiate it. I don't give a damn about batman or assassins creed, I'm discussing a completely different point.

I don't have to give any proof. Nvidia reps have said that like a million times and no AMD rep has steped up saying it was false. All that AMD say regarding that is "We don't support propietary tech". That's all the proof I need. You don't have any proof to say they didn't offer it for free, so taking into account Nvidia's take and AMD's take, I win, it was offered for free. They are offering it for free to developers too, and that is a fact very well known.

 

[Easy Rhino]

naturally the company with the most to lose will shun hydra technology. if the tables were turned im positive that amd would do the same thing.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I don't have to give any proof. Nvidia reps have said that like a million times and no AMD rep has steped up saying it was false. All that AMD say regarding that is "We don't support propietary tech". That's all the proof I need. You don't have any proof to say they didn't offer it for free, so taking into account Nvidia's take and AMD's take, I win, it was offered for free. They are offering it for free to developers too, and that is a fact very well known.

If its proprietary that means it wasn't free.

naturally the company with the most to lose will shun hydra technology. if the tables were turned im positive that amd would do the same thing.

Of course they would. Again why would you buy something and give it to your worst enemy?!

 

[theubersmurf]

I don't have to give any proof. Nvidia reps have said that like a million times and no AMD rep has steped up saying it was false. All that AMD say regarding that is "We don't support propietary tech". That's all the proof I need. You don't have any proof to say they didn't offer it for free, so taking into account Nvidia's take and AMD's take, I win, it was offered for free.

So if the invidia reps have said this so many times...where is it documented?

And your counter argument is that I have no proof that they weren't offered to run invidias physx api for free? Do you know what Occam's razer is? So this grand gesture of generosity given by invidia, a corporation, with noticably greedy habits seems likely to you? It's giving away it's IP...for free. I suspect you've never read this anywhere, you just want to make these claims so that invidia will continue to look good. Or maybe if invidia looks bad your head will explode or something. idk.

 

[Benetanegia]

If its proprietary that means it wasn't free.

Propietary doesn't mean it's not free. Propietary means it's not an open standard, which BTW doesn't have to be free anyway. But in this case it was free, because they wanted AMD to implement it at all cost. When it comes to physics they are not compating with AMD at ALL. They are competing with Intel and their Havok. They are in a race, because once Intel has Larrabee, there's no doubt that Havok will run much much better on their GPUs, even if they are 10 times worse in graphics. Havok will always be optimized for x86, period.

 

[PP Mguire]

Actually, if its open then it means its open to the public Aka Open Source. (IE Linux)

 

[TheMailMan78]

Propietary doesn't mean it's not free. Propietary means it's not an open standard, which BTW doesn't have to be free anyway. But in this case it was free, because they wanted AMD to implement it at all cost. When it comes to physics they are not compating with AMD at ALL. They are competing with Intel and their Havok. They are in a race, because once Intel has Larrabee, there's no doubt that Havok will run much much better on their GPUs, even if they are 10 times worse in graphics. Havok will always be optimized for x86, period.

ATI is in bed with Intel and Havok. So your saying Nivida offered it for free to ATI to beat Intel?

Actually, if its open then it means its open to the public Aka Open Source. (IE Linux)

Shhhhhh hes on a roll!

 

[erocker]

*Waiting for the "AMD shuns Lucid Hydra" article.


-Nvidia needs to do less shunning, and start making new hardware.

 

[TheMailMan78]

*Waiting for the "AMD shuns Lucid Hydra" article.

Any day now I bet.

 

[Benetanegia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard

Open Standard =! Open Source =! Open door

Just in case

 

[1Kurgan1]

Seen this coming the instant Lucid was announced, not a shock, Im surprised they didn't just say it then.

 

[PP Mguire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard

Open Standard =! Open Source =! Open door

Just in case

Open standard + Open Source + Open Door = public. It says so in the wiki you provided.

 

[Benetanegia]

So if the invidia reps have said this so many times...where is it documented?

It was in Shacknews where that has been said, and it's impossible to find that out now. I've tried but nothing, keep in mind it 12 months old info. Anyway:

http://www.geeks3d.com/20080705/upd...deon-cards-nvidia-offers-help-on-the-project/

That is, just a little bit after the rejection, Nvidia was fully supporting that programmer, tell me, they were going to ask him for money? He would have to pay for every Ati card that used that hack or what?

Open standard + Open Source + Open Door = public. It says so in the wiki you provided.

Yeah, but it's not the same. An Open Standard doesn't have to be open source. And definately doesn't have to be free. Open Source doesn't have to be free either.

I mean, open standard means you are free to use it and almost always you can do it for free (although not always), but the code or technology is not necesarily open. You can't change it and sometimes some bits of the open standard are semi-propietary. It says in the wiki too.

 

[human_error]

That is, just a little bit after the rejection, Nvidia was fully supporting that programmer, tell me, they were going to ask him for money? He would have to pay for every Ati card that used that hack or what?

Umm no - that's why they hired him at nvidia - so he wouldn't continue the project (it was the only way they could stop him).

You can say "well nvidia reps said they offered it free" until you're blue in the face but they are going to try and make it seem like nvidia is a saint (that's tehir job)- the fact is that nvidia paid for physx, they would never give it away for free since they don't get any money for physx games being sold (they only get money for hardware sales). It is all propoganda at the end of the day - nvidia said they'd never bother with dx10.1 because it wasn't worth doing then they released the gt210/220 cards and now dx10.1 is required for the best gaming experience.

OT i keep seeing the excuse of quality control being thrown around as the reason why nvidia is blocking the hydra chip - this is a load of bull as hydra just sends directx calls to different locations - there is no QC needed on the nvidia end of things as their drivers get directx calls and render the scene - it doesn't matter how many directx calls there are or even if all of the scene is present as it will work the same. Nvidia is just abusing it's dominance in the GPU market to influence manufacturers to delay or prevent the launch of competing products (in this case the hydra chip which competes with nvidia solutions) - this is extremely similar to what intel did to AMD in the Athlon 64 era - they used market dominance to influence manufacturers to not launch products with competing technology.

 

[theubersmurf]

http://www.geeks3d.com/20080705/upd...deon-cards-nvidia-offers-help-on-the-project/

That is, just a little bit after the rejection, Nvidia was fully supporting that programmer, tell me, they were going to ask him for money? He would have to pay for every Ati card that used that hack or what?

I remember this stuff, I don't think it's conclusive of invidia giving away it's IP. I think what's more likely is they wanted it implemented, and for AMD to have to pay for it.

 

[Benetanegia]

Umm no - that's why they hired him at nvidia - so he wouldn't continue the project (it was the only way they could stop him).

You can say "well nvidia reps said they offered it free" until you're blue in the face but they are going to try and make it seem like nvidia is a saint (that's tehir job)- the fact is that nvidia paid for physx, they would never give it away for free since they don't get any money for physx games being sold (they only get money for hardware sales). It is all propoganda at the end of the day - nvidia said they'd never bother with dx10.1 because it wasn't worth doing then they released the gt210/220 cards and now dx10.1 is required for the best gaming experience.

Yeah of course, I forgot that Nvidia is the evil company. And it's because of the same things always are mentioned, which have always been false, AC DX10.1, PhysX, TWIMTBP...

The fact is that they are jus the target of everybody's hate and that is what I hate and why I'm always on their side. I hate all that BS, lies and FUD that is always based in previous FUD and BS. This thing about Lucid must be because of wrongdoing and not a valid reason because of what they did with PhysX and Ati, what they did with Ati+PhysX was wrongdoing because what they did with Batman AA, what they did with Batman was wrongdoing because of what they did with AC DX10.1 and so on. Reality is that they are not guilty of anything of that, but the ball just gets rolling, it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. But hey, it's the same mechanism that establishes all the myths and I love MythBusters so I should be happy... :shadedshu No, it's pathetic. As pathetic as UFO hunting.

 

[erocker]

Stay on topic. I really don't want to come into this thread and see rehash after rehash of the same crap (physx, batman, etc.) again and again.

Personally, why should we care what Nvidia has to say about another product? Do we listen to Del Monte rip Chiquita over their substandard bannanas? Are Charmin's claims about having softer toilet paper over their competetors really true?!

 

[Benetanegia]

This is what MSI has to say regarding the delay on the Hydra MB and the MB with NF200 being released before the Hydra one:

“The MSI P55 Big Bang with NVIDIA NF200 was already planned in December 2008, almost one year ago. MSI showcased this board on Cebit 2009 which was reported by many media like http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?id=24935&catid=2 and there are also photos which show very clearly the NF200 chip: http://images.hardware.info/news/cebit-day2-23.jpg. MSI Big Bang Trinergy (NF200) is already announced and will go into mass production by the end of November.

The MSI Big Bang Fuzion (Hydra 200) hardware is ready. Currently Lucid is optimizing the driver for Windows 7 so that it works stable and in all configurations (Including Mix & Match mode). Because MSI is dedicated to bring high quality and stable product on the market we decided to postpone the Big Bang Fuzion (Hydra 200) pending the MSI internal qualification assurance test. The Big Bang Fuzion (Hydra 200) will be released when it’s driver is finished which is most likely Q1 2010."

From: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/11/04/nvidia-crushes-msis-lucid-based-board/

 

[W1zzard]

Are Charmin's claims about having softer toilet paper over their competetors really true?!

toilet paper is a very interesting kind of product ... no matter how good it is in theory, advertising or how cheap, environment friendly it is, if you dont like it you just dont like it and wont ever buy it again.