NVIDIA Shuns Lucid Hydra

[Easy Rhino]

Indeed. On that note, I'm not worrying since I won't be buying anything Nvidia anytime soon due to these and prior business practices. It's a shame too, I really liked my GTX260, but I'll manage.

good. i hope everyone boycotts because of this. i think it sucks but i hope that nvidia will see the light or they atleas have something similiar to hydra coming down the pike. there is a very good reason why nvidia is slowly phasing out their mobo chipsets, and im guessing it is financial.

 

[phanbuey]

yeah well... if everyone boycotts nvidia, then we won't need hydra in the first place :/

Whoever said that AMD would shun HYDRA as well was dead on. Intel would probably be next in line because their chipset division would be butthurt over this. I just hope an antitrust suit forces them to open up the market, unlikely, but it would be the only thing that would work.

 

[Benetanegia]

What I really don't get is why some people jump to defend any company if they claim impartiality.
People are unhappy and they deserve a chance to rant about it!
Why is it that someone always jumps up to shut everyone up for... well no reason really other than to be the 'defendants' self proclaimed lawyers. Just to say, "Oh, and by the way, I'm not a fanboy, I use <fill in the competing co.'s product here> too."
What are you trying to hold people down for?
If they did something people hate, they aught to be called on it without anyone back-chatting the complaints other than they themselves or those under their employ. :shadedshu

Because I hate people attacking other people for no good reason. If they were blaming Nvidia for the good reasons I wouldn't step up, but it's always for the same crap. I started this thread asking some questions that no one knows. We don't know if it runs well, we don't know if they create any conflict, we know nothing. So without knowing the real reasons for this, it's just assuming that Nvidia did something wrong all the time, "because they did it in the past" and then the same crap as always follows, Assassin's Creed, etc. So being that the precedents they are bringing up have always been false, I have to assume they just think this must be wrongdoing because of hate, without them taking the rest of the options into perspective.

A lot has been discussed about AA in Batman and the same arguments have been used. The same happened with PhysX and it's always people judging before knowing facts. It wouldn't be bad if they only judged, but people tend to blame and insult and that is something that I simply can't stand anywhere. I've always been like that, i.e. when I was 14 a mother was screaming at her kids, in a bad manner and from what I could tell for no good reasons, so I stepped up. She went mute when I started reprehending her and she promised she would never do it again. She was shocked at the fact that a 14 year old "kid" could have told her she was abusing her children and she was unable to see it. Since then I've been always that way, and I don't regret it. It has put me in troubles many times, I don't care.

 

[theubersmurf]

what i dont get is how people do not understand why nvidia would not be in favor of the hydra chip. it cuts into a major segment of their sales. are they just supposed to role over and lose hundreds of millions? the good thing, if this is executed properly, both amd and nvidia will start producing chipsets that support some sort of hybrid crossfire/sli tech. they will only do this if the hydra chip truly cuts into their sales and obviously they dont want that to happen until they are prepared for it.

It's understandable, but still sort of nasty. Honestly, if intel, invidia, and AMD were all using lucid logix chips on their mobos, the playing field would be flat. invidia fighting against that doesn't strike me as odd, as intel gets all of the attention, and I wouldn't be surprised if AMD disallows them on their enthusiast boards. But I'd be curious the marketshares of mobo sales after such a broad adoption of lucid's chip.

 

[eidairaman1]

Nvidia is being dumb as it is, they will get rolled over by both Intel and AMD if they dont change their business practices

 

[phanbuey]

Because I hate people attacking other people for no good reason. If they were blaming Nvidia for the good reasons I wouldn't step up, but it's always for the same crap. I started this thread asking some questions that no one knows. We don't know if it runs well, we don't know if they create any conflict, we know nothing. So without knowing the real reasons for this, it's just assuming that Nvidia did something wrong all the time, "because they did it in the past" and then the same crap as always follows, Assassin's Creed, etc. So being that the precedents they are bringing up have always been false, I have to assume they just think this must be wrongdoing because of hate, without them taking the rest of the options into perspective.

A lot has been discussed about AA in Batman and the same arguments have been used. The same happened with PhysX and it's always people judging before knowing facts. It wouldn't be bad if they only judged, but people tend to blame and insult and that is something that I simply can't stand anywhere. I've always been like that, i.e. when I was 14 a mother was screaming at her kids, in a bad manner and from what I could tell for no good reasons, so I stepped up. She went mute when I started reprehending her and she promised she would never do it again. She was shocked at the fact that a 14 year old "kid" could have told her she was abusing her children and she was unable to see it. Since then I've been always that way, and I don't regret it. It has put me in troubles many times, I don't care.

You just related nvidia being called out for shady business practices to a mother abusing her kids...

Yeahhh... They do have shady business practices. Facts are great, but the fact is they could have embraced it, instead they squash it to prevent it from competing with their solutions. They could have gone about this a number of different ways but they chose the most anti-competitive.

I apologize to any children I abused, or puppies that I might have kicked in the making of that post.

 

[Tartaros]

If they were blaming Nvidia for the good reasons I wouldn't step up, but it's always for the same crap. I started this thread asking some questions that no one knows. We don't know if it runs well, we don't know if they create any conflict, we know nothing

I think the fanboy discussion is not what we are talking about in this thread, we are complaining because of nvidia's decisions about not opening their technology. I know perfectly they are in all their right to do that, but they have screwed up a new way of doing things that could have benefit all of us. In the end, the ones who are screwed with this decision are us, the customers.

Facts are great, but the fact is they could have embraced it, instead they squash it to prevent it from competing with their solutions. They could have gone about this a number of different ways but they chose the most anti-competitive.

+1

 

[Benetanegia]

You just related nvidia being called out for shady business practices to a mother abusing her kids...

Yeahhh... They do have shady business practices. Facts are great, but the fact is they could have embraced it, instead they squash it to prevent it from competing with their solutions. They could have gone about this a number of different ways but they chose the most anti-competitive.

I apologize to any children I abused, or puppies that I might have kicked in the making of that post.

No, I am not comparing them, I'm just stating how I am, so that it can be understood how I act. I do think Nvidia is doing this to protect their bussiness, but at the same time there are other reasons too that should be taken into consideration. It's really important for me to see everything from all the angles and I hate people that blindly follow wrong stablished ideas and don't make the effort to see all angls. You don't know if that is the only reason, just like no one knows really. For instance, the motherboard was not delayed at their request as has been shown later, who tells you the rest is true? And I mean, I have yet to see any real proof of this, or this being postd anywhere besides OC3D and Semiaccurate.

EDIT: Yeah, in fact this all comes from Semiaccurate and only OC3D has linked it. Then TPU has linked to OC3D. Semiaccurate is the source = FUD and Nvidia bashing. It wouldn't surprise me that everything is false, since the whole Demerjian's article is based on the delay of the Hydra board and the rush of the one with NF200 and he even admits at the end he saw several months ago the same board he is saying it has been rushed. That is no rush at all and the delay has been explained. The rest... look an UFO...

 

[imperialreign]

No, I am not comparing them, I'm just stating how I am, so that it can be understood how I act. I do think Nvidia is doing this to protect their bussiness, but at the same time there are other reasons too that should be taken into consideration. It's really important for me to see everything from all the angles and I hate people that blindly follow wrong stablished ideas and don't make the effort to see all angls. You don't know if that is the only reason, just like no one knows really. For instance, the motherboard was not delayed at their request as has been shown later, who tells you the rest is true? And I mean, I have yet to see any real proof of this, or this being postd anywhere besides OC3D and Semiaccurate.

TBH, I think the biggest reason we see such reactions from people stems more from being jaded by nVidia's (and ATI's) practices, more-so than anything else.

We've all become so used to nVidia's hard-ball tactics and policies, it just comes across the wrong way . . . and then, looking at ATI, who behave completely opposite, it makes nVidia look even worse.

Take this situation for example - something new comes out and nVidia immediately stout "we're not supporting that!" Then they go on to set their hardware up to block compatiblity with their hardware. Honestly, that's general business practice in the PC market - look at how things have panned out between other vendors in other aspects of the market . . .

But, then you have ATI who stays quiet about this new news - and when someone finally goes to them to ask their opinion, it's vauge and overly cryptic, or runs along the lines of "no comment." Then, ATI may or may-not block support with their hardware . . . but, thing is, they don't typically come out and say so (if they do) - they wait for everyone to find out later . . . or, they throw in some hack & slash support, just so they can say they do support it (even though it may be nowhere near effcient or effective). Their passiveness makes nVidia look agressive and brash . . .

It's funny how the dynamic between the duo actually works - and it's been this way for the better part of the last decade . . . these actions are really nothing new.

 

[eidairaman1]

well TBH Crossfire seems to be an open standard than Nvidias, and it seems NVidia had to change tactics by introducing Physx to try and stay ahead of ATI, well Physx doesnt seem to be catching on that fast at all, even when Ageia had the boards. I would say Nvidia has done themselves in.

 

[phanbuey]

yep... its one thing if they said "we shall not support it" that's more like the passive thing imperial mentioned. I think its the fact that they went all out and dedicated a portion of their driver team to PREVENT the tech from working.

So instead of fixing things like the d*mn stutter in Fallout 3 with the 19x.x drivers and the fact that the second card doesn't clock down in SLI... they're focusing on peeing in someone else's cheerios. It just seems like their strategy has complete disregard for the customer in general.

 

[eidairaman1]

Last time I was impressed with Nvidia was during the GF4 and GF7 Series Lineups, after that they have became too stuck-up on themselves.

 

[Benetanegia]

TBH, I think the biggest reason we see such reactions from people stems more from being jaded by nVidia's (and ATI's) practices, more-so than anything else.

We've all become so used to nVidia's hard-ball tactics and policies, it just comes across the wrong way . . . and then, looking at ATI, who behave completely opposite, it makes nVidia look even worse.

Take this situation for example - something new comes out and nVidia immediately stout "we're not supporting that!" Then they go on to set their hardware up to block compatiblity with their hardware. Honestly, that's general business practice in the PC market - look at how things have panned out between other vendors in other aspects of the market . . .

But, then you have ATI who stays quiet about this new news - and when someone finally goes to them to ask their opinion, it's vauge and overly cryptic, or runs along the lines of "no comment." Then, ATI may or may-not block support with their hardware . . . but, thing is, they don't typically come out and say so (if they do) - they wait for everyone to find out later . . . or, they throw in some hack & slash support, just so they can say they do support it (even though it may be nowhere near effcient or effective). Their passiveness makes nVidia look agressive and brash . . .

It's funny how the dynamic between the duo actually works - and it's been this way for the better part of the last decade . . . these actions are really nothing new.

True to an extent, but AMD has not been so quiet and has definately not played fair. They do try to look like they play fair, but I don't think they are at all. PhysX is the best example. Their reasons for declining it are completely false, because they did support Havok and although they said propietary tech must die, etc. on the one hand Havok is propietary too and on the other one the demo they did of GPU Havok was running in Stream (propietary) and not OpenCL, because they didn't have OpenCL drivers yet. On top of that, they forgot to mention that Nvidia is working with Havok too. Basically they lied, but they have managed to get away with that, because Nvidia is not saying we are supporting all those things, even they are actually supporting much more thinga than AMD. It's something that escapes my understanding tbh. AMD in that case did say we are not supporting PhysX and they did block it from running on their hardware, is there a difference if you do it on drivers or you do it by othr means? Not in my book. Now there's this thing with Hector Ruiz. I've been very aware of the false image of AMD fr long, for me it doesn't make a difference if a company does something "in your face" like Nvidia or in the shadows while your reps smile and say beautiful things that are then never fullfilled. They themselves have been engaged in a deprestigiation campaign against Nvidia, like saying everywhere they could that Nvidia doesn't support open standards like OpenCL, when in fact Nvidia had the drivers 2 months before them and have an SDK, which AMD doesn't and have Visual Studio integration and so on. But they get away with that lie, or distortion of reality, because people believe them.

This is not bashing or anything, I'm just showing that AMD is far from being the good company that pretends to be. It's just like any other company.

EDIT: Also what about Eyefinity. I don't see they have made it an open standard before using it and it's not as if they have not promoted it. I don't see them working to make it an open standard either. All I see is a very nice feature that only works on their hardware and very little chances of that being different in the future. So where did it go the mantra of open standards?

 

[NympH]

I'm so glad i bought a 5870!

Never going to buy another nvidia card as long as i live.

 

[TheMailMan78]

You just don't get it do you Benetanegia? These are all normal business practices. This is something that is accepted by everyone whos ever turned a dollar. You can't fight the machine my friend. No one can.

 

[Mussels]

No I believe it was Nvidia that disables Physx when a ATI card is recognized.

exactly. nvidia will do anything possible to ensure physX only runs on nvidia cards/systems.

@TheMailMan78

That situation just happened in recent times. Months before, NVIDIA was offering PhysX implementation to AMD/ATI cards, but they just didn't accept it. (Most likely because they wanted to work on their own Stream implementation, but as it is, it never took off.)

see below

Provide evidence of this claim.

exactly. THERE WAS NO PROOF. there was NEVER an official statement from nvidia or ATI, nothing but one websites speculation

 

[Benetanegia]

You just don't get it do you Benetanegia? These are all normal business practices. This is something that is accepted by everyone whos ever turned a dollar. You can't fight the machine my friend. No one can.

Yeah, yeah, but then why only one company gets bashed for those practices? I hate haters and that's why you will always see me defending Nvidia, because no one hates other companies.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yeah, yeah, but then why only one company gets bashed for those practices? I hate haters and that's why you will always see me defending Nvidia, because no one hates other companies.

Because thats the company thats in the news NOW. Next week it could be ATIs turn. Of course you were always quick to attack Intel so you're just as guilty as the rest.

 

[Benetanegia]

Because thats the company thats in the news NOW. Next week it could be ATIs turn. Of course you were always quick to attack Intel so you're just as guilty as the rest.

That now is been now for the past 5 years, at least.

The difference is that there are proofs against Intel. Intel is guilty about all that I have "attacked" them for. Against the supposed and most of the times confirmed as false, Nvidia's malparactices there's usually no proof and everybody jumps the gun, even whe the proofs of inocence show up, people are more willing to believe that ALL developers lie, rather than accept Nvidia is not evil, not in that thing they thought it was at least. Examples: TWIMTBP bribing, DX10.1, PhysX, Batman AA...

Apology from the writer in OC3D for his misinformed claims:

http://www.overclock3d.net/news.php?/cpu_mainboard/nvidia_quash_msi_s_lucid_powered_big_bang_board/1

Edit/Apology: It seems in my rush to get this article out nice and early for all of our readers, I made a beginners mistake (remember I've only been at this for a couple of weeks) and missed out a few important steps in the process.

I would like to officially apologize to SemiAccurate, my initial source for the article, and NVIDIA and MSI for my misinformed statements which cast them in a bad light. My sincerest apologies guys, I hope I haven't offended you - Alex Myers

Will anyone be able to do the same as him (and learn something in the process) if it happens that not only that, but also the bits* about the drivers turn out to be false too?

* This is all that has been said regarding the drivers:

We heard through the grapevine at IDF that Nvidia was not happy about Lucid, and was going to break Lucid's Hydra chip at the driver level to protect its SLI tax.

That's Charlie Demerjian... (I'll make a stop here, so that the info is processed) saying through the grapevine, not even mentioning the usual "sources have told me" no, through the grapevine. That's as accurate info as it gets. Come on...

And at IDF on top of that, like there is place with more Nvidia haters nowadays you know, a very truthful information...

It's obvious that what generated that CD article was the motherboard delay and the rush of the NF200 one and not the thing about the driver that is just mildly mentioned. The motherboard portion has been confirmed as false and the other thing just doesn't hold water anymore, until true proofs are brought. But we will still hear from this for years to come.

 

[phanbuey]

True... i actually think its been even longer than that... ever since they bought 3dfx out and then made them go *poof* along with glide.

 

[Benetanegia]

True... i actually think its been even longer than that... ever since they bought 3dfx out and then made them go *poof* along with glide.

Yeah true, I was thinkking about that too. I was one of those that hated Nvidia for that, I kept my Voddoo 3 until I couldn't justify its use anymore. It went from main PC to lesser important PC until it just didn't make sense. I still have it somewhere, I believe, and it's the only old card that I have kept.

Anyway, tbh 3DFx was almost dead by then, just like Ageia and they did support it a bit more, maybe more than if 3Dfx had gone bankrupt.

 

[runnin17]

nVidia is for douchebags!!!!!!!

 

[Mussels]

nVidia is for douchebags!!!!!!!

while they are being douches, caling nvidia users douchebags wont go well here. play nice... you never know how many moderators here use nvidia hardware...

 

[TheMailMan78]

That now is been now for the past 5 years, at least.

The difference is that there are proofs against Intel. Intel is guilty about all that I have "attacked" them for. Against the supposed and most of the times confirmed as false, Nvidia's malparactices there's usually no proof and everybody jumps the gun, even whe the proofs of inocence show up, people are more willing to believe that ALL developers lie, rather than accept Nvidia is not evil, not in that thing they thought it was at least. Examples: TWIMTBP bribing, DX10.1, PhysX, Batman AA...

Well you have a selective memory then. ATI was accused of price fixing. Oh yeah Nvidia was also. And guess what? They settled out of court. As for the Intel thing we wont go into it.

 

[Kantastic]

Personally, I feel that as of now the only thing Nvidia is good for is bringing down HD 5K prices when they release Fermi. I haven't been building computers long enough to take sides but I still can't see myself buying a Nvidia card. >_>