• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Foundry Delays to Push Back NVIDIA Kepler Launch to 2012

Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,296 (0.53/day)
System Name Thakk
Processor i7 6700k @ 4.5Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte G1 Z170N ITX
Cooling H55 AIO
Memory 32GB DDR4 3100 c16
Video Card(s) Zotac RTX3080 Trinity
Storage Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD / Intel 250GB SSD / Samsung Pro 512 SSD / 3TB Seagate SV32
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 100hz IPS Gsync / HTC Vive
Case QBX
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150 > Creative Gigaworks T40 > AKG Q701
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G900
Keyboard Ducky Shine TKL MX Blue + Vortex PBT Doubleshots
Software Windows 10 64bit
Benchmark Scores http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12108888
Good.. that gives me one more year to save up before changing the GTX580 :D
 

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
To be honest, what it looks like to me is that NVidia is more popular with "some" Steam users surely? That don't mean they are selling more cards though :p

Explain what you mean please. The survey takes ALL Steam users into account.

I hope that you are not suggesting that there's any kind of preference for Nvidia amongst Steam users, and that for non Steam users AMD is prefered. That would be ridiculous.

For me the survey is enough proof, but sure is not the only one:

http://www.jonpeddie.com/publications/add-in-board-report/

That Nvidia sells more cards is a fact. That Nvidia tends to dominate the higher end segments, while AMD sells more on the lower end segments (and integrated), is also suggested by nearly every analist. Since we are talking about Kepler, hence high-end, I could care less how many cards are sold in the low end segments (mostly for HTPC) and even taking all segments into account Nvidia sells 60% of cards. Pretending that reality is different, because it does not relate to your graphics card election is wrong. Don't try to find some obscure reasons for explaining what is cristal clear by just looking at facts...
 

Tatty_Two

Gone Fishing
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
25,944 (3.75/day)
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Intel Core i9 11900KF @ -.080mV PL max @220w
Motherboard MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK
Cooling DeepCool LS520SE Liquid + 3 Phanteks 140mm case fans
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB SR) Patriot Viper Steel Bdie @ 3600Mhz CL14 1.45v Gear 1
Video Card(s) Asus Dual RTX 4070 OC + 8% PL
Storage WD Blue SN550 1TB M.2 NVME//Crucial MX500 500GB SSD (OS)
Display(s) AOC Q2781PQ 27 inch Ultra Slim 2560 x 1440 IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200/SPDIF to Sony AVR @ 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic CORE GM650w Gold Semi modular
Software Win 11 Home x64
Explain what you mean please. The survey takes ALL Steam users into account.

I hope that you are not suggesting that there's any kind of preference for Nvidia amongst Steam users, and that for non Steam users AMD is prefered. That would be ridiculous.

For me the survey is enough proof, but sure is not the only one:

http://www.jonpeddie.com/publications/add-in-board-report/

That Nvidia sells more cards is a fact. That Nvidia tends to dominate the higher end segments, while AMD sells more on the lower end segments (and integrated), is also suggested by nearly every analist. Since we are talking about Kepler, hence high-end, I could care less how many cards are sold in the low end segments (mostly for HTPC) and even taking all segments into account Nvidia sells 60% of cards. Pretending that reality is different, because it does not relate to your graphics card election is wrong. Don't try to find some obscure reasons for explaining what is cristal clear by just looking at facts...

You precisely stated my point, thank you, it's steam users and whilsts steam is huge, it's by no means all users and therefore, whilst it's an excellent measure of card popularity for the many that use steam (and have either participated in the survey or bothered to update their specs if it's automatic) it does not reflect all users.

For example, If I go to my account in Steam I think it shows that I have a GTX280, thats only because I havent bothered logging on to steam for about 2 years..... nothing more sinister than that, so I can confirm that your conclusion that I might be insinuating that steam is biased in favour of NVidia is unfounded...... clearer?

Edit: noone.... well I am not and have not suggested that anyone sells more cards than NVidia, I am simply pointing out that in my opinion Steam does not reflect all users and there is not "firm" evidence, thats not to say I think your wrong, meerly that there may be more steadfast ways of prooving your point.
 

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
You precisely stated my point, thank you, it's steam users and whilsts steam is huge, it's by no means all users and therefore, whilst it's an excellent measure of card popularity for the many that use steam (and have either participated in the survey or bothered to update their specs if it's automatic) it does not reflect all users.

For example, If I go to my account in Steam I think it shows that I have a GTX280, thats only because I havent bothered logging on to steam for about 2 years..... nothing more sinister than that, so I can confirm that your conclusion that I might be insinuating that steam is biased in favour of NVidia is unfounded...... clearer?

I know that Steam does not represent the entirety of users (no survey does), but there's no better survey out there. You seem to suggest that the very first thing that every Nvidia user does is enter Steam while AMD users never use Steam. That is ridiculous like I said.

And if there is any preference, that would be for AMD, because Valve has been promoting Ati cards on their games for a very long time. I'm not saying there's any preference, only that if there had to be one, it makes more sense to be in favor of Ati. Of the 5 Ati cards that I've bought in the last years (for me or friends) 3 had a discount cupon for some Steam game, none of the Nvidia ones had any.

And just as a side note, in 2010 50% of games sales were digital, and most of them are Steam. So Steam represents PC gamers better than anything else.
 
Last edited:

Tatty_Two

Gone Fishing
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
25,944 (3.75/day)
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Intel Core i9 11900KF @ -.080mV PL max @220w
Motherboard MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK
Cooling DeepCool LS520SE Liquid + 3 Phanteks 140mm case fans
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB SR) Patriot Viper Steel Bdie @ 3600Mhz CL14 1.45v Gear 1
Video Card(s) Asus Dual RTX 4070 OC + 8% PL
Storage WD Blue SN550 1TB M.2 NVME//Crucial MX500 500GB SSD (OS)
Display(s) AOC Q2781PQ 27 inch Ultra Slim 2560 x 1440 IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200/SPDIF to Sony AVR @ 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic CORE GM650w Gold Semi modular
Software Win 11 Home x64
I know that Steam does not represent the entirety of users (no survey does), but there's no better survey out there. You seem to suggest that the very first thing that every Nvidia user does is enter Steam while AMD users never use Steam. That is ridiculous like I said.

And if there is any preference, that would be for AMD, because Valve has been promoting Ati cards on their games for a very long time. I'm not saying there's any preference, only that if there had to be one, it makes more sense to be in favor of Ati. Of the 5 Ati cards that I've bought in the last years (for me or friends) 3 had a discount cupon for some Steam game, none of the Nvidia ones had any.

And just as a side note, in 2010 50% of games sales were digital, and most of them are Steam. So Steam represents PC gamers better than anything else.

You seem to suggest that the very first thing that every Nvidia user does is enter Steam while AMD users never use Steam. That is ridiculous like I said.

Not sure where you get this from, we seem to speak the same language but you continue to make wrong assumptions.... So I will say it again, and hopefully it will be even clearer, I don't care who sells the most cards, i dont care if more or less Nvidia or AMD users register on steam, what I do care about however is to try and get the fullest and most accurate picture when stating facts, you have just said that 50% of games were digital in 2010, that means 50% were not, therefore just by the law of averages there are probably as many gamers out there that dont play on steam (actually probably a lot more), so as I said before, whilst steam is a good indicator, it clearly does not speak for all gamers..... nothing more sinister than that, so please, stop this assumptions rubbish, you don't have to turn everything into a green or red side or assume everyone else is.
 

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
You seem to suggest that the very first thing that every Nvidia user does is enter Steam while AMD users never use Steam. That is ridiculous like I said.

Not sure where you get this from, we seem to speak the same language but you continue to make wrong assumptions.... So I will say it again, and hopefully it will be even clearer, I don't care who sells the most cards, i dont care if more or less Nvidia or AMD users register on steam, what I do care about however is to try and get the fullest and most accurate picture when stating facts, you have just said that 50% of games were digital in 2010, that means 50% were not, therefore just by the law of averages there are probably as many gamers out there that dont play on steam (actually probably a lot more), so as I said before, whilst steam is a good indicator, it clearly does not speak for all gamers..... nothing more sinister than that, so please, stop this assumptions rubbish, you don't have to turn everything into a green or red side or assume everyone else is.

I'm not making this into a red/green anything. I'm stating the fact that Nvidia sells more, because that's a fact, it's information. Information to take it as you please. Because it sells more does it meas it's better? No. I'm even trying to imply that? No. But facts are facts. The post I replied to was implying that AMD was selling tons and tons of HD6000 cards more than GTX500, so that they didn't need the new generation as much. I pointed out that they are not selling so many of them, and provided proof. Proof that GTX500 vs HD6000 seems to be leaning in favor of Nvidia, and hence AMD needs to do something to change that trend.

Now regarding the discussion between you and me. You think that Steam survey is not a good source. And you are wrong and I'm telling you why. 50% of games sold digital, most from Steam. By the law of average, and contrary to your assumption, FAR more than 50% of gamers must use Steam, because it only takes 1 game bought through steam to be an Steam user. If this year you bought 100 games and only 1 was from Steam, guess what? You are an Steam user.

And honestly, I still fail to see the relevance of your posts. It doesn't matter if Steam users represent 50%, or 5% of gamers*. To think that a higher proportion of Nvidia users than AMD users get Steam is ridiculous and nonsensical.

* How many serious surveys do you know that were conducted with more than 5% of the targeted population? I'll save your time: NONE.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
3,688 (0.59/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Felix777
Processor Core i5-3570k@stock
Motherboard Biostar H61
Memory 8gb
Video Card(s) XFX RX 470
Storage WD 500GB BLK
Display(s) Acer p236h bd
Case Haf 912
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Rosewill CAPSTONE 450watt
Software Win 10 x64
I'm not making this into a red/green anything. I'm stating the fact that Nvidia sells more, because that's a fact, it's information. Information to take it as you please. Because it sells more does it meas it's better? No. I'm even trying to imply that? No. But facts are facts. The post I replied to was implying that AMD was selling tons and tons of HD6000 cards more than GTX500, so that they didn't need the new generation as much. I pointed out that they are not selling so many of them, and provided proof. Proof that GTX500 vs HD6000 seems to be leaning in favor of Nvidia, and hence AMD needs to do something to change that trend.

Now regarding the discussion between you and me. You think that Steam survey is not a good source. And you are wrong and I'm telling you why. 50% of sold digital, most from Steam. By the law of average, and contrary to your assumption, FAR more than 50% of gamers must use Steam, because it only takes 1 game bought through steam to be an Steam user. If this year you bought 100 games and only 1 was from Steam, guess what? You are an Steam user.

And honestly, I still fail to see the relevance of your posts. It doesn't matter if Steam users represent 50%, or 5% of gamers*. To think that a higher proportion of Nvidia users than AMD users get Steam is ridiculous and nonsensical.

* How many serious surveys do you know that were conducted with more than 5% of the targeted population? I'll save your time: NONE.

Well said on that last part. I agree, yes Steam survey isn't 100% or even 90%, but i'd bet my computer its the closest information we have to the exact reality on gaming desktop hardware percentages. IF more accurate/better data can be found please do provide
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
5,123 (0.90/day)
Location
North of Germany
System Name Nexus PC
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1231 v3, 3600 MHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-H97-HD3
Cooling Thermalright Macho V2
Memory 24GB DDR3, 1400MHZ CL8
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon R9 290
Storage Samsung EVO 960 250gb, EVO 850 250gb, Vertex 3 128gb. 2 TB of Rotational.
Display(s) 1xAsus MX299, 2x Asus MX239, Oculus Rift CV1
Case Sunflower Tower
Audio Device(s) C-Media CMI8738/C3DX
Power Supply Corsair TX850
Mouse Cyborg R.A.T. 7
Software Win7 64Bit Ultimate
GloFo seriously needs to create more fabs, to increase their production capacity... would also definetly benefit our economy, and create new working places;)
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
1,491 (0.20/day)
Location
66 feet from the ground
System Name 2nd AMD puppy
Processor FX-8350 vishera
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper TX2
Memory 16 Gb DDR3:8GB Kingston HyperX Beast + 8Gb G.Skill Sniper(by courtesy of tabascosauz &TPU)
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+;1450/2000 Mhz
Storage SSD :840 pro 128 Gb;Iridium pro 240Gb ; HDD 2xWD-1Tb
Display(s) Benq XL2730Z 144 Hz freesync
Case NZXT 820 PHANTOM
Audio Device(s) Audigy SE with Logitech Z-5500
Power Supply Riotoro Enigma G2 850W
Mouse Razer copperhead / Gamdias zeus (by courtesy of sneekypeet & TPU)
Keyboard MS Sidewinder x4
Software win10 64bit ltsc
Benchmark Scores irrelevant for me
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
107 (0.02/day)
Location
Romania
Processor intel i7 4770k @ 4.6ghz
Motherboard asus maximus vi hero
Cooling noctua nh d14
Memory 16gb gskill 2400 mhz
Video Card(s) MSI gtx 780ti
Storage 512gb samsung 840 pro + 2x 1tb WD caviar black sata 3
Display(s) 3x Benq XL2720Z 144hz surround
Case cooler master storm stryker
Audio Device(s) asus xonar dx
Power Supply corsair ax1200
Software windows 7 ultimate 64 bit
it's amd which should be in the hurry to realease the new series of cards since the gtx 580 is kicking their ass really badly. if you OC the gtx 580 is enough to play any game at highest settings (fps doesn't drop below 45 in crysis 1 maxxed out 1080P!!!). but you could always use more power. for me the SLI is not a desirable solution. i've tried SLI gtx 480 and gtx 580 and the scaling is nowhere near it is advertised. i'll always go for the fastest single gpu card and i have a haunch it will be again nvidia who will deliver just that while amd fanboys will say that their cards have better performance/watt ratio. like that matters on the top products...
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,481 (1.04/day)
it's amd which should be in the hurry to realease the new series of cards since the gtx 580 is kicking their ass really badly.

uhm.... no. you got a graphics card that consumes more, cost a lot more and well... preform better (not a lot better). what do you expect? there is no magic here.
judging by the prices on new egg and comparing to reviews by w1zz, you will get the cheapest GTX580 for 499$ and the cheapest HD6970 for 329$ (both reference),
price differences = 51%
performance differences (2560X1600) = 9%
Power Consumption differences (peak) = 22%
So... you should probably go with a pair of HD6870 for 350$ total. there are enough good graphics solutions below 499$
 
Last edited:

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
uhm.... no. you got a graphics card that consumes more, cost a lot more and well... preform better (not a lot better). what do you expect? there is no magic here.

There is no magic, but it's faster and has no competing product. That's why it costs more, it's an unrivaled flagship product.

They don't need the 580 to compete with AMD's best, because they already have cards that do that. In every high-end and performance spot, Nvidia has cards that directly compete with AMD offerings and currently sell for $30 less or so.

GTX570 which is as fast as the HD6970 is selling for $30 less and consumes about the same. It consumes a little bit more when load is 100% and a little less than the 6970 when on idle or playing blu-ray.

Same for GTX560, way cheaper than 6950, similar performance, small consumption difference, smaller die-area... For every high-end/performance AMD card Nvidia has a good answer that is selling at better prices and nobody really cares for 20W more on power consumption.

judging by the prices on new egg and comparing to reviews by w1zz, you will get the cheapest GTX580 for 499$ and the cheapest HD6970 for 329$ (both reference),
price differences = 51%
performance differences (2560X1600) = 9%
Power Consumption differences (peak) = 22%
So... you should probably go with a pair of HD6870 for 350$ total. there are enough good graphics solutions below 499$

Yes and you can get a GTX570 for $309.

The fact of the matter is that as the Steam survey demostrates there's far more GTX580 than there is HD6970. There's very little speculation to be made. Whether you think the HD6970 is much better becomes irrelevant when facts demostrate that gamers do not think like you, as is demostrated by their wallets. Of course the GTX570 and GTX560 ti sells even more, much more.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
107 (0.02/day)
Location
Romania
Processor intel i7 4770k @ 4.6ghz
Motherboard asus maximus vi hero
Cooling noctua nh d14
Memory 16gb gskill 2400 mhz
Video Card(s) MSI gtx 780ti
Storage 512gb samsung 840 pro + 2x 1tb WD caviar black sata 3
Display(s) 3x Benq XL2720Z 144hz surround
Case cooler master storm stryker
Audio Device(s) asus xonar dx
Power Supply corsair ax1200
Software windows 7 ultimate 64 bit
my point exactly. 6970 was aimed at gtx 580 but it ended up competing with the gtx 570. believe me, if amd could have built a stronger single gpu card at that moment, they would have done it, even disregarding the power consum. mind you, they even had the precious advantage or releasing their 6970 later than the gtx 580, but this was as far as they could go. period
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
1,132 (0.18/day)
System Name Grandpa
Processor i5 4690K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z97X-UD5H-BK
Cooling water
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence 2400MHz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 5850 x2
Storage Samsung SM951
Display(s) Catleap 27"
Case coolermaster stacker
Power Supply corsair AX860i
Mouse logitech g5 original
Keyboard Ducky
Software Windows 8.1
* How many serious surveys do you know that were conducted with more than 5% of the targeted population? I'll save your time: NONE.

Agree

OT, I struggle to understand why there would be so much enthusiasm to portray this late delivery issue like it's a football game deserving opposing views. A more mature look at this situation would see that we are all losers when new technology is delayed, no matter what manufacturer.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
217 (0.03/day)
Location
Mataram-NTB, Indonesia
System Name Folding System
Processor Ryzen 5 5500
Motherboard ASRock B540 Steel Legend
Cooling EK Clean CSQ WB + EK CoolStream RAD XTX 480 + Swiftech D5 Pump
Memory 4 x 8 GB DDR4 HyperX Fury
Video Card(s) Zotac RTX 3070 8Gb Twin Edge OC
Storage Team MP33 NVME 1TB | 4x Seagate 4TB Raid 0
Display(s) Titan Army 27G1 IPS 2K 144Hz
Case Corsair 900D + 1 Aerocool 14cm Fan, 3 CM Fan 12cm, 4 Scythe Slim Fan 12cm, 4 Corsair Fan 12cm
Audio Device(s) ASUS Xonar Phoebus + Hippo cri head amp + Sennheiser HD 598 + Razer Megalodon
Power Supply Seasonic P1000 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G910 Mech Keyboard
Software Windows 11 Home
well..that's why in every statistical survey there's margin of error, and conclusion is only for specific question, whether the survey question is to get statistical data which brand has the most user or which brand has the most sales depend on the question asked in the survey.
 

Tatty_Two

Gone Fishing
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
25,944 (3.75/day)
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Intel Core i9 11900KF @ -.080mV PL max @220w
Motherboard MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK
Cooling DeepCool LS520SE Liquid + 3 Phanteks 140mm case fans
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB SR) Patriot Viper Steel Bdie @ 3600Mhz CL14 1.45v Gear 1
Video Card(s) Asus Dual RTX 4070 OC + 8% PL
Storage WD Blue SN550 1TB M.2 NVME//Crucial MX500 500GB SSD (OS)
Display(s) AOC Q2781PQ 27 inch Ultra Slim 2560 x 1440 IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200/SPDIF to Sony AVR @ 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic CORE GM650w Gold Semi modular
Software Win 11 Home x64
I'm not making this into a red/green anything. I'm stating the fact that Nvidia sells more, because that's a fact, it's information. Information to take it as you please. Because it sells more does it meas it's better? No. I'm even trying to imply that? No. But facts are facts. The post I replied to was implying that AMD was selling tons and tons of HD6000 cards more than GTX500, so that they didn't need the new generation as much. I pointed out that they are not selling so many of them, and provided proof. Proof that GTX500 vs HD6000 seems to be leaning in favor of Nvidia, and hence AMD needs to do something to change that trend.

Now regarding the discussion between you and me. You think that Steam survey is not a good source. And you are wrong and I'm telling you why. 50% of games sold digital, most from Steam. By the law of average, and contrary to your assumption, FAR more than 50% of gamers must use Steam, because it only takes 1 game bought through steam to be an Steam user. If this year you bought 100 games and only 1 was from Steam, guess what? You are an Steam user.

And honestly, I still fail to see the relevance of your posts. It doesn't matter if Steam users represent 50%, or 5% of gamers*. To think that a higher proportion of Nvidia users than AMD users get Steam is ridiculous and nonsensical.

* How many serious surveys do you know that were conducted with more than 5% of the targeted population? I'll save your time: NONE.

I am not denying anything you have said, my challenge was simply that you take as fact that a survey which does not include everyone is actually a fact, as I pointed out, it's a good indication but not a fact, I prefer to take facts like the one link you posted earlier, those facts show (along with other recent quarterly reports), that NVidia's market share is in decline and AMD's is increasing, whilst this still places NVidia's with the largest market share of the two, less people currently are buying NVidia cards than they were last year and much of those customers have bought AMD instead..... To be honest I couldnt care who buys what, I have no brand loyality, my last 3 cards have been AMD, my 6 before that were Nvidia....... perhaps I am being a little Anal, and if I am I apologise, however to me facts are facts, what is a fact is that more people who completed the steam survey use NVidia cards, it's a bit like saying 60% of American men drink beer, the other 40% either drink spirits or don't drink at all..... then continuing by saying that the trend therefore must apply to Europe or other parts of the world :D
 

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
I am not denying anything you have said, my challenge was simply that you take as fact that a survey which does not include everyone is actually a fact, as I pointed out, it's a good indication but not a fact, I prefer to take facts like the one link you posted earlier, those facts show (along with other recent quarterly reports), that NVidia's market share is in decline and AMD's is increasing, whilst this still places NVidia's with the largest market share of the two, less people currently are buying NVidia cards than they were last year and much of those customers have bought AMD instead..... To be honest I couldnt care who buys what, I have no brand loyality, my last 3 cards have been AMD, my 6 before that were Nvidia....... perhaps I am being a little Anal, and if I am I apologise, however to me facts are facts, what is a fact is that more people who completed the steam survey use NVidia cards, it's a bit like saying 60% of American men drink beer, the other 40% either drink spirits or don't drink at all..... then continuing by saying that the trend therefore must apply to Europe or other parts of the world :D

The problem with JPR or Mercury Research is that they account for shipments and those include shipments to OEMs, plus they don't make any distinction between high-end and low end, any shipment counts as +1. Shipments do not necessarily equal sales. For example HP may order (random numbers ahead) 2 million AMD cards and 1 million Nvidia cards, but they very well end up selling 600k Nvidia powered PCs and only 400k AMD powered ones. This is just a random and over-exagerated example, but similar things may happen. In that light I cannot take their numbers any more seriously that Steam numbers and I take Steam ones more seriously indeed, because the survey is conducted on final customers (on 30 million active users, 3.5 milion concurrent users) and not the shipments that may later end up on the thrash bin.

And if we judge them by the same standard as you are judging Steam, they are not facts more than Steam survey is anyway. They take into account shipments to the most important retailers and OEMs, but they do not take ALL of them into account either. These analist firms still provide statistics, like anyone else, based on a few retailers and then extrapolate according to expectations. Pretty close to relality, but not 100% sure.

Your last example makes no sense to me either. Arguably americans and europeans (if we even dare to generalise and take europeans as an homogeneous group) have very different tastes and cultures, but Steam does not represent any differentiated demographics compared to gamers in general*, and have members from all countries, ethnics and ages. If there is any distinction, please, tell me which one it is, because there lies the key to our disagreement.

* And ceratinly none regarding GPU election.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
107 (0.02/day)
Location
Romania
Processor intel i7 4770k @ 4.6ghz
Motherboard asus maximus vi hero
Cooling noctua nh d14
Memory 16gb gskill 2400 mhz
Video Card(s) MSI gtx 780ti
Storage 512gb samsung 840 pro + 2x 1tb WD caviar black sata 3
Display(s) 3x Benq XL2720Z 144hz surround
Case cooler master storm stryker
Audio Device(s) asus xonar dx
Power Supply corsair ax1200
Software windows 7 ultimate 64 bit
who cares about market shares? all it matters to me is who delivers THE BEST single gpu card and as little hardware and software problems as possible. it has been nvidia so far with gtx 8800 ultra, gtx 285, gtx 480 and gtx 580. i owned all of this cards. something tells me the tradition will carry on
 

Tatty_Two

Gone Fishing
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
25,944 (3.75/day)
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Intel Core i9 11900KF @ -.080mV PL max @220w
Motherboard MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK
Cooling DeepCool LS520SE Liquid + 3 Phanteks 140mm case fans
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB SR) Patriot Viper Steel Bdie @ 3600Mhz CL14 1.45v Gear 1
Video Card(s) Asus Dual RTX 4070 OC + 8% PL
Storage WD Blue SN550 1TB M.2 NVME//Crucial MX500 500GB SSD (OS)
Display(s) AOC Q2781PQ 27 inch Ultra Slim 2560 x 1440 IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200/SPDIF to Sony AVR @ 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic CORE GM650w Gold Semi modular
Software Win 11 Home x64
The problem with JPR or Mercury Research is that they account for shipments and those include shipments to OEMs, plus they don't make any distinction between high-end and low end, any shipment counts as +1. Shipments do not necessarily equal sales. For example HP may order (random numbers ahead) 2 million AMD cards and 1 million Nvidia cards, but they very well end up selling 600k Nvidia powered PCs and only 400k AMD powered ones. This is just a random and over-exagerated example, but similar things may happen. In that light I cannot take their numbers any more seriously that Steam numbers and I take Steam ones more seriously indeed, because the survey is conducted on final customers (on 30 million active users, 3.5 milion concurrent users) and not the shipments that may later end up on the thrash bin.

And if we judge them by the same standard as you are judging Steam, they are not facts more than Steam survey is anyway. They take into account shipments to the most important retailers and OEMs, but they do not take ALL of them into account either. These analist firms still provide statistics, like anyone else, based on a few retailers and then extrapolate according to expectations. Pretty close to relality, but not 100% sure.

Your last example makes no sense to me either. Arguably americans and europeans (if we even dare to generalise and take europeans as an homogeneous group) have very different tastes and cultures, but Steam does not represent any differentiated demographics compared to gamers in general*, and have members from all countries, ethnics and ages. If there is any distinction, please, tell me which one it is, because there lies the key to our disagreement.

* And ceratinly none regarding GPU election.

Lol I quoted it because you provided the link, I agree with you however it's your link not mine :)
 

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
Lol I quoted it because you provided the link, I agree with you however it's your link not mine :)

So the thing is you can't trust statistics?* I understand your point, I just think it's wrong. I mean, W1zzard should just stop doing reviews, because they are never going to be accurate, in fact despite being the reviewer that benches more games, by far, he still cannot bench even a 5% of them, so we should render his reviews useless? His conclusions are "lies" in that they are based on heavily "limited" data? I don't think so, it's wide enough that it represents the mayority of situations out there and hence is valid.

* It must suck to be you, living in this world and distrusting statistics to such a degree. No one takes them 100% seriously but... And what about meds, you must not take meds, they are tested on what 0.001% of human population? And food? The additives may be perjudicial to you! And let's not start talking about cosmetics or bath products. Ugh they must be banned on your home. Just trying to be sarcastic while making a point. :p
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
5,147 (0.75/day)
Location
AZ
System Name Thought I'd be done with this by now
Processor i7 11700k 8/16
Motherboard MSI Z590 Pro Wifi
Cooling Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4, 9x aigo AR12
Memory 32GB GSkill TridentZ Neo DDR4-4000 CL18-22-22-42
Video Card(s) MSI Ventus 2x Geforce RTX 3070
Storage 1TB MX300 M.2 OS + Games, + cloud mostly
Display(s) Samsung 40" 4k (TV)
Case Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic EVO Black
Audio Device(s) onboard HD -> Yamaha 5.1
Power Supply EVGA 850 GQ
Mouse Logitech wireless
Keyboard same
VR HMD nah
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores no one cares anymore lols
while I do agree that according to statistics it doesn't matter how much of the population steam represents, the same trends will likely hold true to all users. Unless of course someone can prove that steam or steam users are biased to one paticular brand. (I seriously doubt it)


but it doesn't matter, I mean why speculate and you can get actual numbers?

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/05/17/amd-graphics-cards-gain-market-share-from-n/1

The figures, which are based on discrete graphics cards sales in the first quarter of 2011...

while amd is on an upswing, Nvidia simply sells more cards. Stock prices further back that up as investors will flock to the better performer. Right now Nvidia is pulling in nearly double the market cap as AMD.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
875 (0.15/day)
"Poorer than expected sales"? Do you have any actual evidence for this, or are you just blowing smoke out of your ATI-loving ass?

LOLOLOL!!!

You couldn't be more retarded! Or ignorant.

I HATE my ATI it's one of the worst hardware mistakes I've ever made - and I've said so many times.
 

Captain.Abrecan

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
175 (0.03/day)
Location
MA
System Name MHI 0000001
Processor Intel Pentium D 950 Presler
Motherboard Asus P5N-32 SLI
Cooling Stock Air
Memory 4x Corsair ValueRAM DDR2 667 1GB
Video Card(s) EVGA 9800 GTX
Storage 4x Seagate Barracuda 500GB 7200RPM
Display(s) HP 17" CRT 1600x1200
Case Thermaltake Armor Black
Audio Device(s) Creative Soundblaster
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower 850
Software Microsoft Windows XP Professional
So the thing is you can't trust statistics?* I understand your point, I just think it's wrong. I mean, W1zzard should just stop doing reviews, because they are never going to be accurate, in fact despite being the reviewer that benches more games, by far, he still cannot bench even a 5% of them, so we should render his reviews useless? His conclusions are "lies" in that they are based on heavily "limited" data? I don't think so, it's wide enough that it represents the mayority of situations out there and hence is valid.

* It must suck to be you, living in this world and distrusting statistics to such a degree. No one takes them 100% seriously but... And what about meds, you must not take meds, they are tested on what 0.001% of human population? And food? The additives may be perjudicial to you! And let's not start talking about cosmetics or bath products. Ugh they must be banned on your home. Just trying to be sarcastic while making a point.

+1 Awesome for making my office laugh out loud
 

Tatty_Two

Gone Fishing
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
25,944 (3.75/day)
Location
Worcestershire, UK
Processor Intel Core i9 11900KF @ -.080mV PL max @220w
Motherboard MSI MAG Z490 TOMAHAWK
Cooling DeepCool LS520SE Liquid + 3 Phanteks 140mm case fans
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB SR) Patriot Viper Steel Bdie @ 3600Mhz CL14 1.45v Gear 1
Video Card(s) Asus Dual RTX 4070 OC + 8% PL
Storage WD Blue SN550 1TB M.2 NVME//Crucial MX500 500GB SSD (OS)
Display(s) AOC Q2781PQ 27 inch Ultra Slim 2560 x 1440 IPS
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Windowed - Gunmetal
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200/SPDIF to Sony AVR @ 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic CORE GM650w Gold Semi modular
Software Win 11 Home x64
So the thing is you can't trust statistics?* I understand your point, I just think it's wrong. I mean, W1zzard should just stop doing reviews, because they are never going to be accurate, in fact despite being the reviewer that benches more games, by far, he still cannot bench even a 5% of them, so we should render his reviews useless? His conclusions are "lies" in that they are based on heavily "limited" data? I don't think so, it's wide enough that it represents the mayority of situations out there and hence is valid.

* It must suck to be you, living in this world and distrusting statistics to such a degree. No one takes them 100% seriously but... And what about meds, you must not take meds, they are tested on what 0.001% of human population? And food? The additives may be perjudicial to you! And let's not start talking about cosmetics or bath products. Ugh they must be banned on your home. Just trying to be sarcastic while making a point. :p

I don't distrust statistics at all, and cmon, what has meds got to do with it, all I distrust is anyone that states the word "fact" without facts to back it up, and yes of course I buy things off the back of a review, difference is there are reviewers we trust and reviews we don't, same applies to me, you and everyone else..... but thats irrelivent, reviews are not facts, their reviews! :D Ultimatly we agree to disagree..... lets move on as we will just continue to go around in circles.
 

Benetanegia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,680 (0.48/day)
Location
Reaching your left retina.
I don't distrust statistics at all, and cmon, what has meds got to do with it, all I distrust is anyone that states the word "fact" without facts to back it up, and yes of course I buy things off the back of a review, difference is there are reviewers we trust and reviews we don't, same applies to me, you and everyone else..... but thats irrelivent, reviews are not facts, their reviews! :D Ultimatly we agree to disagree..... lets move on as we will just continue to go around in circles.

So the conclusion to all this is that I wasted my precious time to semantics? LOOOOOOOOLOLOLOL.
 
Top