Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition Pictured

[Pickles Von Brine]

So I've always wondered, do the vid card manufacturers have to license the firmware code required to make these cards compatible with the Mac OS? This isn't even a FirePro version of the card which would then make a little sense for the mark up in price. Or is it simply an example of supply and demand.... go ahead and try to get a Mac compatible card from somewhere / someone else (I know you used to be able to flash "normal" vid cards to work with Macs, not sure if it's still possible).

The firmware itself is licensed and controlled under Apple, thus there is a premium to have access to this. Plus, Apple demands extensive testing in order to ensure maximum stability for the components that go into their machines. You can think of it how Enterprise class drives are so much more expensive than normal drives because of the algorithms written into the firmware for vibration. These cards have the specially modified with firmware that is compliant with Apple's standards. Because of this, this carries a high premium. Plus with the fact is the GPU itself a custom design on top of it.

So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know

See above.

Demand

That is also another reason.

It probs cost more because its for a mac and i bet that is the only reason cause anything you buy for apple products is a rip off.

I do know one thing though, They need to make this into a 7970ghz pc edition so i can buy one to match my nzxt case.

That is wrong. Please see above. Apple products are not a rip off. They are more expensive, but they are also rather reliable. Plus the fact that they use higher grade materials in their manufacturing (compared to PCs except gaming hardware) comes at a premium.

A prime example of this areMacbook pros. All of them have milled aluminium top cases. This is not cheap to make... The same for the iMacs. Their shell is also milled aluminium. All their logic boards use solid caps and various other components. They also have custom firmware that run on top and also a piece of hardware in them called the SMC. The SMC is the system management controller. This controls power and various other aspects of the machine including fan speed. PCs don't have this.

 

[Casecutter]

Will a Apple Mac Pro workstation have the 500W + PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors?

 

[tokyoduong]

No one buys a Mac to game primarily still but it's a lot more possible and worthwhile than ever before both due to the Intel hardware and companies like Valve.

And as for flashing again I am not even sure what to flash exactly as I am still not convinced there is an actual low-level difference such as firmware. Somehow PC cards don't work out of the box but as I said I don't understand how/why exactly. Before Intel Macs there was a definite firmware/bios difference and neither would work on the other platform.

It works the same now AFAIK. Unless they made it even harder like what Microsoft did with their Xbox dvd drive.

That is also another reason.

I agree with everything you say except this. Demand is actually not why the price is too high. If you want to get technical then most of the cost comes from cost-push --> increased price of final product. The other reason for high would probably be called superior product pricing. The last part is the lack of competition.

cost-push - apple probably charges high royalty or whatever licensing fees.
superior product - in economic terms, it is based largely on what the consumer view as premium products
competition - do i need to even explain?

This price is largely due to a economist or statistician somewhere with their charts and equilibrium. Since demand is small but constant, they can adjust the price by limiting supply and use their brand premium. As there is very little cost incurred by apple, they would be smart to keep the price up as it keeps their image up. Keep the supply down so you don't saturate the market and cause a surplus. The less apple products that end up at a discount store like TJMaxx, the better the brand image.

 

[Pickles Von Brine]

Will a Apple Mac Pro workstation have the 500W + PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors?

Considering the fact that the Mac Pro Early 2008 model (2 Core 2 Quads) had a single 980W continuous PSU made by either AcBel or Delta, the 2013 model will likely have a 1000-1200W PSU. The PSUs they put into these things are custom designed server grade units.

It works the same now AFAIK. Unless they made it even harder like what Microsoft did with their Xbox dvd drive.


I agree with everything you say except this. Demand is actually not why the price is too high. If you want to get technical then most of the cost comes from cost-push --> increased price of final product. The other reason for high would probably be called superior product pricing. The last part is the lack of competition.

cost-push - apple probably charges high royalty or whatever licensing fees.
superior product - in economic terms, it is based largely on what the consumer view as premium products
competition - do i need to even explain?

This price is largely due to a economist or statistician somewhere with their charts and equilibrium. Since demand is small but constant, they can adjust the price by limiting supply and use their brand premium. As there is very little cost incurred by apple, they would be smart to keep the price up as it keeps their image up. Keep the supply down so you don't saturate the market and cause a surplus. The less apple products that end up at a discount store like TJMaxx, the better the brand image.

Touche

 

[tokyoduong]

Will a Apple Mac Pro workstation have the 500W + PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors?

You should already know that apple wouldn't allow their name to be printed on it unless they did testing to make sure it works and is compatible with their current configurations. Apple strategy has always been a simple limited # of prebuilt configurations. That way, they can charge more, have less compatibility problems, optimized software, less manufacturing and supply logistics, etc...you know the works.

 

[buildzoid]

Plus, Apple demands extensive testing in order to ensure maximum stability for the components that go into their machines.

They test to make sure it fails a month after the warranty ends. I know from experience as I'm in a school where we have to use macs. The entire middle school gets loaned a free mac I was in the group that was the first to get into this program.
1st year all good unless your a moron the computer ran fast and stable.
2nd year by the end of the year there were a bunch of HDD crashes and a computers froze running firefox + word almost every class we used them. The batteries were at 0-20% at the end of the day.
3rd year even more HDD crashes speed was abysmal running the same software as before many batteries were dry by the end of 3rd period. At the end of the year the school got rid of them and bought a new batch.
These computers were cleand and had their OS+software reinstalled at the end of each year.
In the highschool we have to use them and here's a list of common problems:
wobbly screens, dry batteries, serious graphical artecafts in some games, RAM hogging (I had 6.4GB of used ram even when I had no apps open),MS Word causes lag, HDD crashes, overheating when running internet (seriously I use a fan controller and at 91% speed I had 60C typing this while listening to music from Youtube). BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac

 

[fritoking]

So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know

apple demanded a per card royalty just for the privilege of allowing the cards to be used in their systems.

 

[Wrigleyvillain]

BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac

Yeah well I have been an IT tech supporting primarily Macs at various professional firms since you were in diapers and can tell you, in general, Macs are very well built. I still have ten-year-old Cinema Displays humming along and rarely have to get hardware repairs on *any* models, even hard drives (which have nothing to do with Apple at all). And these machines are under long heavy loads in Adobe apps etc working with multi-gigabyte files.

That said, I don't see a ton of PC hardware repairs either because these people are mature adults, first and foremost. All computers in school lab environments get thrashed, especially middle and high school. Even worse when they can take them home.

 

[Pickles Von Brine]

They test to make sure it fails a month after the warranty ends. I know from experience as I'm in a school where we have to use macs. The entire middle school gets loaned a free mac I was in the group that was the first to get into this program.
1st year all good unless your a moron the computer ran fast and stable.
2nd year by the end of the year there were a bunch of HDD crashes and a computers froze running firefox + word almost every class we used them. The batteries were at 0-20% at the end of the day.
3rd year even more HDD crashes speed was abysmal running the same software as before many batteries were dry by the end of 3rd period. At the end of the year the school got rid of them and bought a new batch.
These computers were cleand and had their OS+software reinstalled at the end of each year.
In the highschool we have to use them and here's a list of common problems:
wobbly screens, dry batteries, serious graphical artecafts in some games, RAM hogging (I had 6.4GB of used ram even when I had no apps open),MS Word causes lag, HDD crashes, overheating when running internet (seriously I use a fan controller and at 91% speed I had 60C typing this while listening to music from Youtube). BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac

2nd year by the end of the year there were a bunch of HDD crashes and a computers froze running firefox + word almost every class we used them. The batteries were at 0-20% at the end of the day.
These are laptops correct? Having hard drive issues is common in laptops as they are mechanical by nature. Apple uses Hitatchi, WD and seagate for their drives. All of them just have an apple logo and serial number on them. How old are these machines to begin with? Hard drives usually fail within 2-3 years.

How do I know this? Because I repair macs for a living. Hard drive failures are the most common repair. Actually, they are the most common repair out of any repair I do on a macs. The PC tech I work with? Viruses, then hard drive failures are his most common repairs.

3rd year even more HDD crashes speed was abysmal running the same software as before many batteries were dry by the end of 3rd period. At the end of the year the school got rid of them and bought a new batch.
This is because again, these machines are in the hands of students, thrown onto desks (not literally), put into backpacks, moved around a lot. After going through this, it is not surprising to see hard drives fail. Hell, any machine would have a hard drive fail in conditions like that.

wobbly screens
I take it these are unibodies? The hindges are screwed onto the clamshell and top case. The screws work themselves loose from opening and closing of the clamshell over time. Screws just need to be tightend.
Dry Batteries
Most batteries have a life cycle of 1000 charges. That is easy to do in a year or 2.

RAM hogging
Just because the RAM is being used doesn't mean that it is being used if that makes any sense. OSX will use as much RAM as it sees fit to run itself and programs properly and will dynamically unload RAM as needed. It also likes to do a lot of caching so programs that were previously used load quicker. Windows does the same thing. I have 16GB in my sytem and right now have 6.2GB used. That is just sitting here with Chrome open.
MS Word causes lag, HDD crashes,
This is probably because of the hard drive. High schoolers (not you, but those who used your machine before you) are rough on machines and beat the hell out of them. Most kids are rather dumb when it comes to their machines because they are NOT theirs. If something isn't yours, do you think you treat it with the same respect as something that is? Nope.

overheating when running internet (seriously I use a fan controller and at 91% speed I had 60C typing this while listening to music from Youtube).
Macs do tend to run hotter than PCs because of their design, but this is not really an issue. They are programed to run hotter to produce less sound. Plus, it is likely the TIM needs to be reapplied and heat sinks cleared of debris. This is normal for machines that are used a lot like what you are using (I service a lot of school computers). 60C isn't overheating. The processors are designed to run up to 100C. 60C is normal for a laptop. Especailly the Core 2 Duo machines you are likely running. And youtube? It is surprisingly CPU intensive and GPU intensive (2d processing). That is why I use it for testing (20 youtube windows up at a time and let them go ).

BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac
The fact that these macs are going through hell of you kids and still working is a testament to their durability.

I work as an ACMT (Apple Certified Macintosh Technician) for a local AASP (Apple Authorized Repair Center). Each month I get about 400-500 machines in (I am the primary mac tech and do about 70% of the repairs myself). Most of the time what I am fixing is stupid software crap or someone has a failed hard drive in a machine that is going on 4 years old.

 

[Pickles Von Brine]

Yeah well I have been an IT tech supporting primarily Macs at various professional firms since you were in diapers and can tell you, in general, Macs are very well built. I still have ten-year-old Cinema Displays humming along and rarely have to get hardware repairs on *any* models, even hard drives (which have nothing to do with Apple at all). And these machines are under long heavy loads in Adobe apps etc working with multi-gigabyte files.

That said, I don't see a ton of PC hardware repairs either because these people are mature adults, first and foremost. All computers in school lab environments get thrashed, especially middle and high school. Even worse when they can take them home.

Thank you.

BTW, I have a macbook pro early 2008 17 still going strong. The only thing I worry about is the nvidia issue the logic board on these guys have. I know I will have to replace the logic board at some point. But until then, she is still kicking butt.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I wonder if you still can?

Last time I saw an attempt it didn't work. Something about them blocking it on the hardware side.

 

[Lionheart]

Can Mac's play games now

 

[tacosRcool]

Complete rip off. Well its a good thing that most people with macs have very very deep pockets

 

[T4C Fantasy]

Considering the fact that the Mac Pro Early 2008 model (2 Core 2 Quads) had a single 980W continuous PSU made by either AcBel or Delta, the 2013 model will likely have a 1000-1200W PSU. The PSUs they put into these things are custom designed server grade units.



Touche

the cases may be higher grade but the mobos are not.. no mac pro mobo can stand to a top end gaming mobo which may not have specifically SMC but functions that do the exact same thing

 

[symmetrical]

So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know

Nothing, why create a product for Apple/Mac fans if it isn't overpriced?

 

[[H]@RD5TUFF]

Good looking card IMO.

 

[Pickles Von Brine]

the cases may be higher grade but the mobos are not.. no mac pro mobo can stand to a top end gaming mobo which may not have specifically SMC but functions that do the exact same thing

Do you have proof of this? Also you are comparing apples to oranges. The motherboards that apple uses serve a different purpose and are designed for long term reliability and stability. The logic boards in mac pros are closer, if not on par with server grade, which are a set of completely different requirements than a gaming board. An SMC is used because it offers more granular control over various aspects of power and noise.

Nothing, why create a product for Apple/Mac fans if it isn't overpriced?

It is not created for apple fans. This product is made to comply with standards that apple holds for their products. That is what it is custom (compared to a normal card). What makes this card different is laid out in the article. It has firmware written specifically for Apple and has designed without powertune or boost and a tweaked PCB design. What makes this more expensive is the firmware.

Another comparison that can be made here is what makes an enterprise class drive more expensive? They are the EXACT same drives (7200RPM ones) as their consumer counter parts. You know what makes them so much more expensive? Their firmware. It has the obvious things like no spindown and error correction, but there is one other thing that makes them cost more. The algorithms used to compensate for vibration. Consumer drives don't have this.

For these cards, they may be exactly the same as their counterparts physically. For this case, they have powertune and boost turned off (that is easy to do). But writing firmware for something specific is different. The firmware has to comply with something that OSX uses called DSMOS (Don't Steal My Mac OS), which is the authorization system used to check the hardware during boot to make sure it complies with apple.

 

[D4S4]

Also you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Pickles Von Brine]

the cases may be higher grade but the mobos are not.. no mac pro mobo can stand to a top end gaming mobo which may not have specifically SMC but functions that do the exact same thing

Nothing, why create a product for Apple/Mac fans if it isn't overpriced?

Pun was not intended.

 

[cadaveca]

Nice news. All AMD needs now is a chip in a phone, and they'll be in every segment.


Consoles, PCs, Macs, Servers, tablets, and phones.

Price doesn't matter. What matters here is that Apple also has AMD.

 

[t77snapshot]

So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know

Demand

Exactly, and also Mac's image.

Wrap up old generation hardware in a pretty white bow and sell it 25% above the msrp and they with follow..

 

[Frick]

snip

You are fighting an uphill battle on this forum my friend. It is calmer now though, not too long ago this thread would have degenerated into a full on flame war by now. As soon as anything even slightly related to Apple was mentioned it always did.

 

[Initialised]

Does anyone else see a portal where the fan is?

 

[SaiZo]

Nice card. I have nothing against Mac's, it's a computer with a different OS in my eyes.

 

[fwix]

Do you have proof of this? Also you are comparing apples to oranges. The motherboards that apple uses serve a different purpose and are designed for long term reliability and stability. The logic boards in mac pros are closer, if not on par with server grade, which are a set of completely different requirements than a gaming board. An SMC is used because it offers more granular control over various aspects of power and noise.
.

sorry u know nothing about pc gamers components! , yep good motherboard (120$-180$ range) have more than what u think ( PWM fans temp protection solid capac strong VRM better look better compatibility more PCIE extension dual bios solid PCB etc ... ) , plus the biggest thing that u can't have with apple is overclocking .... so don't tell me apple have somethings special than any pc gamer can have (perhaps better firmware "security" but it's 99% useless to gamers ) cause You're wrong in this , and to be honest a pc gamer ll never use any bull shit Apple product for gaming cause it's simply illogic lol