AMD to Give 20 nm Optical Shrinks to Console SoCs First

[theonedub]

The last time I remember a revision to a console having a hardware/performance bump was when the PSP Slim came out with more RAM than the original PSP. I think the PSP was also one of the few consoles to get a CPU/GPU speed bump later in life via software update (for both old and new models).

With some of the Dev complaints I've heard about the CPU being a touch slow, I could reasonably see both Sony and MS bumping the clockspeed on the CPU side of the SoC a bit. I've been playing with the Jaguar based Athlon 5350 and minor speed bumps really have very little effect on temps- a jump to ~2.0ghz should be manageable on old consoles and easy on any revision with a die shrink.

I think boosting the GPU clocks would present heat issues for the original SoCs.

 

[Steevo]

Sadly AMD seem to be quite happy giving technology away for free.

I often have wondered what AMD could do if they hired more engineers and allowed them to work with outside companies using their tech to develop chips for custom applications.

Cable boxes, who wouldn't want a 15W AMD dual core with hardware acceleration and upscaling with frame interpolation for 60Hz with a bit of extra tech?

How about a Samsung Windows tablet with X64 and 8GB of RAM, if my phone can fit 2GB there is no reason I can't have a tablet that does 1080 without stuttering (looking at you Surface, they tried to give me at work!!!).

Think of all the companies who make anything with a screen. Basic color displays replaced by a cheap 16bit depth all in one. Midrange printers with shitty slow displays make me want to go Office Space on them. If AMD took a old GPU and shrunk it and ran off some on the edge of the wasted wafer space and sold them for a few bucks each to companies.....

 

[Aquinus]

I often have wondered what AMD could do if they hired more engineers and allowed them to work with outside companies using their tech to develop chips for custom applications.

I'm just going to say you should be very careful with statements like this one. Some people think you can just make your R&D team bigger, or any team for that matter, and that will solve your problems. I might not be a EE, but I am a developer and I know that the bigger the team is the harder it is to get stuff done as a whole and management gets a lot harder. I'm not going to presume what AMD can do better because I don't know what their internal structure looks like or what kind of roadblocks they run into but just assuming that hiring more people will solve the problem isn't the answer. I suspect there is a more fundamental problem at AMD. Your right though, AMD needs to get into the sub 10-watt SoC territory if you want what you suggested:

How about a Samsung Windows tablet with X64 and 8GB of RAM, if my phone can fit 2GB there is no reason I can't have a tablet that does 1080 without stuttering (looking at you Surface, they tried to give me at work!!!).

 

[john_]

I often have wondered what AMD could do if they hired more engineers and allowed them to work with outside companies using their tech to develop chips for custom applications.

Nothing. You can't fight a chip that costs $0 and comes with an Intel logo on it.

 

[nunomoreira10]

woldnt be very suprysed if microsoft did increase a bit the power of the console, new consoles are very modular just like PCs, increase a bit of power and you get higher perfomance without incompatibilities, it could be something like ipad air to ipad air2 games, developers could harnest a bit more power if they wanted

 

[HalfAHertz]

I'm just going to say you should be very careful with statements like this one. Some people think you can just make your R&D team bigger, or any team for that matter, and that will solve your problems. I might not be a EE, but I am a developer and I know that the bigger the team is the harder it is to get stuff done as a whole and management gets a lot harder. I'm not going to presume what AMD can do better because I don't know what their internal structure looks like or what kind of roadblocks they run into but just assuming that hiring more people will solve the problem isn't the answer. I suspect there is a more fundamental problem at AMD. Your right though, AMD needs to get into the sub 10-watt SoC territory if you want what you suggested:

A project manager is someone who thinks that if one woman can give birth to a baby in 9 months, 9 women can do it in 1 month

 

[fortiori]

A project manager is someone who thinks that if one woman can give birth to a baby in 9 months, 9 women can do it in 1 month

So what you're saying is that there are some things that just can't be multithreaded?

 

[Jorge]

The primary gains in node shrinks now are for reduced power consumption. While there is also increased density it doesn't amount to huge wafer savings. Unfortunately TSMC's 20nm process isn't rolling out as fast as planned.

 

[Aquinus]

A project manager is someone who thinks that if one woman can give birth to a baby in 9 months, 9 women can do it in 1 month

I resent that as half of my job is project coordination. People who know how to do their job understands that isn't the case. People who don't know what they're doing think that it is.

The primary gains in node shrinks now are for reduced power consumption. While there is also increased density it doesn't amount to huge wafer savings. Unfortunately TSMC's 20nm process isn't rolling out as fast as planned.

TSMC has been slow at adopting new processes lately in general.

So what you're saying is that there are some things that just can't be multithreaded?

That isn't what he was saying but that is a true statement. Not all tasks can be made to run in parallel, or at least with any efficiency to make it worth it.

 

[newtekie1]

.....befuddled as why they aren't making more money off these

They basically sold Sony/Microsoft the chips for cost(0 Profit) just to get the contracts for the consoles, knowing that eventually they'd do a die shrink or two lowering costs and then be making a decent profit.

 

[quake4toll]

So ... are we gonna have a better PC port after this upgrade? 1080P 60fps+?

 

[john_]

They basically sold Sony/Microsoft the chips for cost(0 Profit) just to get the contracts for the consoles, knowing that eventually they'd do a die shrink or two lowering costs and then be making a decent profit.

I don't think they don't make money. They do. That's why the "The Enterprise, Embedded, and Semi-Custom division" had positive results the last quarter, which was a very good quarter for PS4 with 3.3 millions consoles and Xbox One with better than averages sales.

But surely they didn't tried to make gazillions, with those chips. They wanted to change the way games are made. Games where made with Intel+Nvidia hardware in mind and just checked for compatibility issues on AMD hardware. The results? We know the results. Everyone blaming AMD hardware and drivers, waiting for the next patch or two. Well, I don't hear much negative comments lately. Games are programmed with AMD hardware in mind today(OK, maybe this isn't the case for Ubisoft) and in the (near) future. Many, not fast, cores and GCN architecture. AMD wins even if they make pennies from each APU. Even if the savings from the 20nm shrink goes to SONY's and Microsoft's pockets, AMD still wins. And of course, there is Mantle.

 

[Mussels]

They need to re-release these consoles every few years, beefing up the power (higher clocks, not more RAM) and have then play all the older games, but smoother.

People with the old console get to run the new games, just that its capped at 30FPS where the revision gets 60.


they dont like it? upgrade! all their games, controllers etc all still work...

 

[Aquinus]

They need to re-release these consoles every few years, beefing up the power (higher clocks, not more RAM) and have then play all the older games, but smoother.

People with the old console get to run the new games, just that its capped at 30FPS where the revision gets 60.


they dont like it? upgrade! all their games, controllers etc all still work...

...and this is why I play PC games.

I would rather buy a new GPU in all seriousness.

 

[Mussels]

seriously i dont get why they cant release a new console thats faster, even if theres an (optional?) FPS cap in place. at the very least its like Vsync on a PC, the console would run the game like all the other consoles, but cooler, quieter.

 

[GhostRyder]

seriously i dont get why they cant release a new console thats faster, even if theres an (optional?) FPS cap in place. at the very least its like Vsync on a PC, the console would run the game like all the other consoles, but cooler, quieter.

Its because console buyers generally do not like to pay for another console. If someone chooses a console over a PC as their only gaming option they want it to be cheap and last for awhile which is why cheaper a lot of times automatically sells better in the console world. I agree with you as it would be nice to just do that over time but most console buyers would probably protest it in some way.

 

[john_]

The idea buying a console is not upgrading all the time. Just start the console and play the game(s).
But with the latest consoles being PCs, it will be easy for MS and SONY to close the gap between generations. I don't expect PS5 or Xbox Two is 8 years, but maybe in 3 or 4, with today's models to be able to play many of the games for the next generation with lower quality settings.

 

[Mussels]

welll they should re-release the consoles every say, 3 years. Up the graphical power and CPU power, but have them compatible with the older games.

make it so a new console plays the next gen games as well as previous ones, but the previous ones run better.

MUSSELS DEMANDS BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY.

 

[Hilux SSRG]

Its because console buyers generally do not like to pay for another console. If someone chooses a console over a PC as their only gaming option they want it to be cheap and last for awhile which is why cheaper a lot of times automatically sells better in the console world. I agree with you as it would be nice to just do that over time but most console buyers would probably protest it in some way.

This is why I stopped being a console buyer.

Each year the PC games looked better and better and the gfx on console games started to look shabby as the years progressed.

 

[newtekie1]

So ... are we gonna have a better PC port after this upgrade? 1080P 60fps+?

Nope, performance remains unchanged. And it is going to take a heck of a lot more than a die shrink to get 1080p 60FPS out of these chips.