AMD "Zen" Offers a 40% IPC Increase Over "Excavator"

[FrustratedGarrett]

Course by the time this launches, Intel will probably have something that beats it. But, hey, 16 threads...giggidy!

perhaps... but 40% increase in IPC and substantially faster cache will do a lot! We'll have to wait n see. Those are some big claims.

 

[SonicZap]

I doubt they're going to beat Intel with Zen, and it's likely that they're not really even attempting it. After all, Intel has so much more resources (and more advanced manufacturing technology) that even if AMD got ahead, they wouldn't actually stay ahead for long unless a miracle happened. AMD just needs to make CPUs that don't cost too much to produce, aren't too much behind Intel in efficiency and have a good price-to-performance ratio, kinda like what they had with Phenom IIs back in 2009. As long as Zen makes their CPU division profitable again and gives them market share in the low-end and mid-class markets, I'd say it's a success.

Looking at AMD's cash reserves and loans, to me it seems that they'll die if Zen and the 2016 Radeons don't change their current course.

This news is far more exciting than anything Intel has done for the desktop after Sandy Bridge though. I hope they're not overestimating that 40% IPC gain over Excavator, and that it doesn't lead to much lower clock rates.

 

[The Von Matrices]

Intel basically is standing still. Their last several releases have gone up at best 10% each time. And for the most part people would still be perfectly happy with Sandybridge. Enthusiasts might not be happy, but the majority of the customer base would be. AMD doesn't have to achieve supremacy, they just have to get close enough to matching Intel to be a reasonable alternative.

The main thing that consistently keeps AMD from being a reasonable alternative is timely execution, not performance. Their APU releases have been delayed each generation, preventing them from being in laptops in time for the holiday shopping season and damaging relations with OEMs. The performance AMD is promising is great, but they could release another Bulldozer-derived APU and would sell more than they do now if they could just meet their release dates with enough supply.

 

[MikeMurphy]

I'm skeptical of the claims they are making on an obviously unfinished chip that won't be ready for another year.

Bulldozer was a disaster. Jaguar cores have excellent performance per die area. I can't help but think the Zen cores will be beefed up Jaguar cores.

 

[HalfAHertz]

"Zen" CPU core, will offer a massive 40 percent increase in IPC (instructions per clock)

Somebody should have put the emphasis on that last bit. Nobody mentioned anything about the target clock being the same as dozer, so don't get your hopes up just yet.

Keep in mind that Bulldozer's pipeline is over 20 something steps long and the target clocks were supposed to be in the 4.5 - 5 GHz range. Zen will bring things back to something more reasonable like 10-13 steps and thus frequency will be affected negatively and will most likely be down to a 3 - 3.5 GHz range.

If they had to under-clock the Bulldozer cores for that comparison, that further reduced their performance, because the severe cache miss-prediction problem is even more emphasized at lower clocks. Thus their comparison will be even lower

 

[Regenweald]

After the bulldozer/piledriver/excavator they should be careful with "empty claims" now ... so damn careful, that I'm allowing my hope for AMD to be revived.

Nope. I have none. believe it when I see it. I just hope they don't get class actioned again.

 

[newtekie1]

The main thing that consistently keeps AMD from being a reasonable alternative is timely execution, not performance. Their APU releases have been delayed each generation, preventing them from being in laptops in time for the holiday shopping season and damaging relations with OEMs. The performance AMD is promising is great, but they could release another Bulldozer-derived APU and would sell more than they do now if they could just meet their release dates with enough supply.

We'll see if that can do just that with Godavari. Seeing as it has a mid-2015 launch date, it should be out in plenty of time for the holiday season.

 

[Lionheart]

I seriously hope this news/claim is true, would love to build an all round AMD system again if the performance is there

 

[xvi]

I see this thread has got that little flame icon on the front page now.

Flame thread? In an AMD article? Well I never!

I'm optimistic that AMD can pull off a 40% IPC increase. Heck, they could get a 20% IPC increase JUST by going back to Thuban. I'd hope they could tack on 20% on to that in the 5 years since Thuban's release.

 

[BiggieShady]

Nope. I have none. believe it when I see it. I just hope they don't get class actioned again.

Jim Keller isn't someone who fucks the CPU architecture up and then make bogus claims. He is quite successful with his designs and Zen has been in the works for years now ... and as you said, they are wary of possible class action lawsuit. I'm sure that they are in no position to hype the BS at this time.
Also, having hope or believing when seen makes no difference anyway until actual money gets spent, and at that time all will be known

 

[Dent1]

Don't just make empty claims AMD, show us some products that can actually deliver the goods.

Why? These slides was for the investors not consumers. Are you an investor?

A friendly reminder: Bulldozer was promised to be 50% faster than 1st gen i7s and Phenom IIs

Actually Bulldozer was more than 50% faster in selected benchmarks.

in many benchmarks it whooped the i7 extreme editions ass.

Disappointment was its inconsistency. Perform fantastic in one set of tests, then perform appallingly in another set. Then perform averagely on the rest.

 

[Prima.Vera]

All talk and PR and nothing concrete. From experience I've learned that all this blablabla needs to be taken with a spoon of salt...

 

[bpgt64]

I have very high hopes for these chips, would love to see them in action...Nothing would bring me more joy than switching back to red team on my CPU.

 

[Dent1]

All talk and PR and nothing concrete. From experience I've learned that all this blablabla needs to be taken with a spoon of salt...

Keep in mind this isn't PR. Marketing to a customer and to an investor are completely different and have their own laws and regulations .

It's leaked slides for the investors. So it would be more seriously inclined to deliver as promised as by law it has to be as near to factual as possible so the investors can make a educated decision to back the project financially.

Its processor market so the end performance will vary slightly and factors out their control such as software code can influence performance. But they are not allowed by law to lie to investors.

 

[alucasa]

tsk, such skeptics! But quite reasonable given AMD's disappointing products over the last decade.

I see this thread has got that little flame icon on the front page now.

I was one of those who purchased AMD's 4 x 4 system (AKA Quad FX) if you remember that. I was a good AMD supporter but I ain't a blinded fanboy.

 

[Regenweald]

Jim Keller isn't someone who fucks the CPU architecture up and then make bogus claims. He is quite successful with his designs and Zen has been in the works for years now ... and as you said, they are wary of possible class action lawsuit. I'm sure that they are in no position to hype the BS at this time.
Also, having hope or believing when seen makes no difference anyway until actual money gets spent, and at that time all will be known

I won't lie, I was pretty hyped when I heard that Jim Keller and some of the vanguard were back....but talented engineers can easily be thwarted by idiotic management and marketing teams.

I just can't bring myself to get to excited for an AMD cpu anymore, maybe after I see what launch claims vs real world performance looks like next gen.

 

[Aquinus]

Welcome to the world of public relations. Here we tell you everything you want to hear on a silver platter.

Lets use a little bit of logic here because this happened with Intel too (and this isn't an insult, just a fact.) When Intel ditched their Netburst design and adopted the Core architecture as we now know it, clock speeds were relatively low compared to the P4 and PD. While I suspect AMD is more than capable of delivering on such a promise, the question is at what clock frequencies are we talking about? If IPC is increased by 40% but we're getting CPU's at 3.2Ghz, then aren't we really talking about a realistic 20% increase in performance? I don't expect revision #1 will be perfect, so I'm not expecting clocks like Excavator has. I was also getting a little tired of the construction equipment code names for CPU cores as it doesn't inspire confidence when talking about speed.

 

[fullinfusion]

I'll be waiting AMD, are you going to win me back on the cpu side

 

[$ReaPeR$]

i hope this will create more competition, AMD has been the underdog for too long.

 

[fullinfusion]

i hope this will create more competition, AMD has been the underdog for too long.

Na AMD was just designing a new chip under a hush hush company law imho... I believe that these new chips will be fantastic, if not ill run away with my tail between my legs amd never look back

 

[$ReaPeR$]

Na AMD was just designing a new chip under a hush hush company law imho... I believe that these new chips will be fantastic, if not ill run away with my tail between my legs amd never look back

hehehehehehehe

seriously though, i really hope this turns out to be as good as it looks for AMD because its image has taken too many hits and OEMs dont really use their products which is sad bc for the majority of users AMD is good enough (CPU wise).

 

[ManofGod]

*Shut up and take my money!* I know that these will not be released until mid to late next year but, I am ready. Otherwise, the only other option for me is the 5820k. Anything less on the Intel side would be a waste of money.

I have 2 computers that I want to upgrade when Zen comes out. In fact, I will be the first in line for the 8 core model.

 

[xvi]

*Shut up and take my money!* I know that these will not be released until mid to late next year but, I am ready. Otherwise, the only other option for me is the 5820k. Anything less on the Intel side would be a waste of money.

I have 2 computers that I want to upgrade when Zen comes out. In fact, I will be the first in line for the 8 core model.

Even as an AMD fan, Intel's lineup is pretty decent as long as it's unlocked. In general, I don't think the value is particularly there unless you ramp up the clock speeds. The G3258, 4690K, and 4790K seem like sweet spots. G3258 especially since it's cheap as chips and can generally overclock to the moon (because it's easy to cool).
I'd definitely like to try Zen though. At this point, I'd just like to move away from the current FX processors.

 

[ManofGod]

Even as an AMD fan, Intel's lineup is pretty decent as long as it's unlocked. In general, I don't think the value is particularly there unless you ramp up the clock speeds. The G3258, 4690K, and 4790K seem like sweet spots. G3258 especially since it's cheap as chips and can generally overclock to the moon (because it's easy to cool).
I'd definitely like to try Zen though. At this point, I'd just like to move away from the current FX processors.

Well, you could always use Calvin's time machine there. However, make sure you go forward and not back to the dinosaur age. For the reasons I use my computers, anything less than a 5820k would be a waste of money. Upgrading to technology that will not last me anywhere near as long as the FX processors have just will not cut it for me.

Dual core processor, unless they are in a business class OEM machine, are completely useless nowadays. Intel Quad Cores are really on good for very specific, singular tasks such as gaming only. Multiuse machines need more than 4 cores in my opinion which is why I use an FX 8320 and FX 8350.

 

[HCT3000]

I have little doubt that AMD can deliver on its claims. The problem has always been when it will deliver. The rest of the market (i.e. Intel) is not standing still, and 40% IPC improvement may not be enough for supremacy depending on the release date. A Steamroller core (A10-7800 @ 3.5 GHz) is only about 50-70% of the performance of an equivalently clocked Haswell core (Core i3-5440 @ 3.5 GHz), so the 40% IPC improvement will only just bring the CPU's IPC in line with Intel's Haswell, let alone Broadwell or Skylake.

Excavator has another 10-15% ipc gain over Steamroller. Broadwell could be achievable, which would be fast enough to keep them in the game until Zen update comes out.