AMD GPUs Show Strong DirectX 12 Performance on "Ashes of the Singularity"

[HumanSmoke]

I don't think Nvidia tried too hard with this game code. It seems that odd that they lose some perf at DX12 where AMD gain.

Another point to consider might be that the Nitrous engine might require some specialized coding. From the developer himself:

We've offered to do the optimization for their DirectX 12 driver on the app side that is in line with what they had in their DirectX 11 driver.

From that comment, it sounds like optimization by a third party is a non-trivial matter - so Nvidia preferred to do the driver coding themselves. Oxide and Nvidia's coding partnership when Star Swarm launched was abysmal, and wasn't rectified until Nvidia's 337.50 arrived IIRC some months later. The reasons for Nvidia deciding to go it alone could be many and varied, but the first go round as BFF wasn't an unmitigated success.

Again, AMD worked closely with Stardock so Nvidia may have neglected it. However in general I imagine Nvidia will try harder once the PR starts to look bad for them.

Might be a case of Star Swarm Redux. Initial drivers were a basket case, but once the driver team got to grips with the code, the performance picked up. Probably depends on a lot of variables though - driver coding priority by the vendor, whether the game code undergoes any significant revision before release (as per Tomb Raider), or whether the game engine is simply not tailored that well for Nvidia's architecture (I'd assume that Oxide and AMD's close relationship would make GCN a primary focus for optimization).

 

[medi01]

It's better to say AMD catching up in dx12.

Uh, doesn't 390x cost about a 100$ less, than 980?

 

[Casecutter]

With respect, it appears you clearly don't understand the public history PCP has regarding AMD. What you took from his comments are the exact opposite of what anyone that has followed them over the years would assume.

They have gotten MUCH better recently, just as TR has, as I think Shrout got an immense amount of heartburn (if you've listened to their podcast over the last year you could tell it was really getting to him) over the outcry at some point. Now, they just joke about him being "BIOS'd.'

...at least I think that's what they called him on the last nvidia/aib-sponsored livestream, while clearly referencing an inside joke about haters gonna hate (which one can assume was about the exact same thing; his perceived bias against AMD).

Enough about that though...

I'd second exactly as said; Shrout / PCP weren't known to have any/much predisposed toward AMD, but I see some fair and balance information come-about as of late. Like with there article on this, they've /or are out ahead of the subject; although it's a lot about nothing.

 

[Uplink10]

The way I see it, is that why optimize for dx11 anymore ?

Win 10 has been DL more than 50 million times allready including dx12 which makes dx11 a thing of the past.
Move on and forget, just keep dx11 where it allready is, thats good enough and start developing dx12 right away.

Not everyone will upgrade to Win10. There are plenty of people - for whatever reasons (although they seem to include technophobia, making a stand against subscription models, abhorrence of "apps", world Government conspiracy theories among others), that will only give up their Win7 serials when they're prised from their cold, dead hands.
I'm also pretty sure that HD 6000 card series owners aren't keen to have their gaming marginalized any further than it already is.

It is perfectly understandable if you do not want to upgrade to Windows 10 mostly because you cannot turn off automatic updating, you cannot opt-out of Costumer Experience Improvement Program (sending info about your PC) and weird (unclear, invasive) EULA.

Windows Apps suck because they take up more space for not apparent reason and have this unusual windows which are different from classic windows.

Microsoft is forcing people who want to use DirectX 12 to use Windows 10 and they are the one who are guilty of requiring developers to make DirectX 11.0 version. I am all for DX12 but I will not use it if it means that I have to follow Google-like bussiness model just, you know I PAID FOR THE DAMN OS AND DESERVE THE DAMN PRIVACY AND CONTROL!

 

[john_]

With respect, it appears you clearly don't understand the public history PCP has regarding AMD. What you took from his comments are the exact opposite of what anyone that has followed them over the years would assume.

They have gotten MUCH better recently, just as TR has, as I think Shrout got an immense amount of heartburn (if you've listened to their podcast over the last year you could tell it was really getting to him) over the outcry at some point. Now, they just joke about him being "BIOS'd.'

...at least I think that's what they called him on the last nvidia/aib-sponsored livestream, while clearly referencing an inside joke about haters gonna hate (which one can assume was about the exact same thing; his perceived bias against AMD).

You are kidding. PCPer is Nvidia's Tom Peterson favorite site to give interviews, they rushed to post Nvidia's PR about GTX 970 and agree with the company's excuses, they have attacked FreeSync in any way possible with their fanboy there Allyn, calling it vaporware everytime he could, they didn't forgot to write multiple negative articles about Fury X's pump, or the lack of WHQL drivers, I mean are you kidding me? The last time they where doing AMD promotions was when AMD released Kaveri. Back then they where creating little youtube videos about Kaveri's superior iGPU over i3's every week. But today they are Green to the bone. I don't know how many years you stopped visiting them, but they have totally changed from what you might remember.

 

[Xzibit]

You are kidding. PCPer is Nvidia's Tom Peterson favorite site to give interviews, they rushed to post Nvidia's PR about GTX 970 and agree with the company's excuses, they have attacked FreeSync in any way possible with their fanboy there Allyn, calling it vaporware everytime he could, they didn't forgot to write multiple negative articles about Fury X's pump, or the lack of WHQL drivers, I mean are you kidding me? The last time they where doing AMD promotions was when AMD released Kaveri. Back then they where creating little youtube videos about Kaveri's superior iGPU over i3's every week. But today they are Green to the bone. I don't know how many years you stopped visiting them, but they have totally changed from what you might remember.

I think both of you are saying the same thing...

Also think that's the reason why most of the talk is going towards PCPerspective when others have done comparisons with AotS and same conclusion. Its surprising or refreshing which ever way you look at it that Ryan dismissed Nvidias stance on the MSAA issue and OXIDE called Nvidia out on it.

Even if one believes for some reason that Nvidia MSAA issues is real (and not PR damage control) it doesn't explain this graph at all that I posted earlier.

"Low" has MSAA turned off and DX12 is still slower then DX11 at 1600p with a fast CPU

 

[arbiter]

Bwahahaha, nvidia failing once again and refusing to admit fault. How typical is that...

How many times has AMD failed and refused to admit fault to turn around and blame nvidia for it?

Another point to consider might be that the Nitrous engine might require some specialized coding. From the developer himself:

Wouldn't be surprise they didn't bother to much with the game since it is an Alpha stage game and any work done now might not even matter when its finally released

Uh, doesn't 390x cost about a 100$ less, than 980?

Consider 390x is a 2 year old gpu so yea it should be cheaper then a much newer one. Even with price difference, DX12 games will trickle out here and there over next 6-12 month's.

 

[Mussels]

I find it interesting that there testing methodology doesn't elaborate on which drivers there are using for thesetests. That being said. Will wait for another reviewer before I speculate

with windows 10 you dont get much of a choice for drivers, so they likely used whatever they had at the time.

 

[kn00tcn]

why arent people mentioning the fact that MANY games are fine on AMD when using a fast cpu even with the lack of multithread (obviously low IPC cpus are screwed as digitalfoundry has shown in the 750/270 or whatever it was review)

which means... this game is simply more draw calls than ever or a lot of general cpu load

notice how the weaker cpus dont get much of a boost from dx12, so it's mostly a game design limitation rather than a lack of API optimization

why arent there more tests renaming the exe so that driver profiles dont get enabled anyway? watch the nvidia dx11 numbers drop

 

[arbiter]

notice how the weaker cpus dont get much of a boost from dx12, so it's mostly a game design limitation rather than a lack of API optimization

Well most games will have to have a low, medium, and high cpu setting or they will have to detect cpu and scale the # draw calls based on cpu in question.

 

[Viruzz]

The way I see it, is that why optimize for dx11 anymore ?

Win 10 has been DL more than 50 million times allready including dx12 which makes dx11 a thing of the past.
Move on and forget, just keep dx11 where it allready is, thats good enough and start developing dx12 right away.

LOL Mate, we will have 2-3 DX12 games this year, This one, Fable and if MS released it this year then Gear of War.
It means that 99% of games still DX11 (and im sure there are lots of DX9 games being developed by Indies and such)
It will stay the same next year and the year after,by the time 50% of all PC games released in DX12, our GPUs will be OBSOLETE

I have a feeling that next Nvidia series will be so fast that GTX1060 (or whatever the x60 model will be called) GPU will beat 980 or be 1:1, if Pascal is everything we hear about it might be even faster.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

You forgot XCOM 2 which is supposed to be coming out for Christmas. XCOM 2 is an Unreal Engine 4 title which means any other UE4 games coming out could also use DX12.

 

[Mussels]

the amount of DX12 games will climb rapidly, some game devs will release DX12 patches, others will do it for the publicity and all Xbox one ports from here on should include it.

 

[john_]

I am pretty sure people who spent this period 500-1000 dollars for a graphics card, don't care only for the Dx12 games that will come out in 2015. They care also for 2016 and maybe 2017 if they don't change cards often.

That said, Nvidia still have an advantage in DX11, but AMD seems to have the hardware to negate their driver's inefficiencies. It's just here, in this specific test, that their DX11 problems are so obvious. In other games we see AMD cards to be, more or less, competitive with Nvidia cards. Nvidia had the opportunity to fix their own problems thanks to Star Swarm and Mantle (funny, but probably the reason behind Nvidia's ultra Dx11 optimizations with 337.5(?) driver was because of Mantle). AMD just ignored doing any extra job there. I think they already knew that Microsoft was coming with DX12 and they already knew that DX12 will run fine on their GCN architecture. So, they just waited (they are experts in waiting unfortunately).

 

[Sony Xperia S]

It just brings the AMD up to where it should be though, yeah? It's not like Fury X is going to curb stomp Titan X on DX12, amiright?

Nope because it is too early to say. Time will tell, in 2-3-4 years.

 

[Mussels]

Nope because it is too early to say. Time will tell, in 2-3-4 years.

those cards wont even be relevant then, we'll know within 6 months.

 

[64K]

If these guys are right then AMD really needs something to boost sales. If they do prove to be superior in DX12 then maybe that will do it.




http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amdnv...ering-4-out-of-5-pc-gamers-own-an-nvidia-gpu/


4 out of 5 gamers buying Nvidia GPUs. It doesn't look good right now @Sony Xperia S

 

[Uplink10]

4 out of 5 gamers buying Nvidia GPUs. It doesn't look good right now @Sony Xperia S

They should, R9 290X and 290 have such good performance per dollar. 290X is only 290 USD.

 

[Sony Xperia S]

They should, R9 290X and 290 have such good performance per dollar. 290X is only 290 USD.

And even less with a 30$ rebate card - 260$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150696&cm_re=290x-_-14-150-696-_-Product

The only sensible explanation to that graph is that more and more people, sadly, tend to join the dark side of nvidia.
Have literally no idea what exactly they want from AMD, why they are so mean to the company and turn their backs...

 

[john_]

If these guys are right then AMD really needs something to boost sales. If they do prove to be superior in DX12 then maybe that will do it.




http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amdnv...ering-4-out-of-5-pc-gamers-own-an-nvidia-gpu/


4 out of 5 gamers buying Nvidia GPUs. It doesn't look good right now @Sony Xperia S

It should be true. It's not Nvidia's numbers.
Anyway it was expected. AMD fans where just waiting to see 300 series and Fury. Nvidia fans where buying like any other day. That's why AMD dropped so low. It wouldn't surprise me to go back at 20% in the 3rd quarter. It will be bad if it stayes there or drop more.

By the way. Did Nvidia also showed numbers for professional cards, or the numbers there where not as pretty? AMD was gaining in the Pro market thanks to the MACs.

 

[64K]

It should be true. It's not Nvidia's numbers.
Anyway it was expected. AMD fans where just waiting to see 300 series and Fury. Nvidia fans where buying like any other day. That's why AMD dropped so low. It wouldn't surprise me to go back at 20% in the 3rd quarter. It will be bad if it stayes there or drop more.

By the way. Did Nvidia also showed numbers for professional cards, or the numbers there where not as pretty? AMD was gaining in the Pro market thanks to the MACs.

Probably has some to do with the numbers. The availability of the Fury/Fury X isn't good right now either for people that want one, at least in the USA. Gouging is taking place especially at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01012TLSS/?tag=tec06d-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0108U6JYC/?tag=tec06d-20

 

[yogurt_21]

Probably has some to do with the numbers. The availability of the Fury/Fury X isn't good right now either for people that want one, at least in the USA. Gouging is taking place especially at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01012TLSS/?tag=tec06d-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0108U6JYC/?tag=tec06d-20

even if it were available I seriously doubt the 980 ti or the 980 are making up the bulk of nvidia's sales. I think the nvidia emphasis on a full line of new cards this round combined with the focus on temperature, noise, and power consumption is really what's causing this. The Fury X could have destroyed the 980 Ti and sales would still swing Nvidia's way.

 

[john_]

Probably has some to do with the numbers. The availability of the Fury/Fury X isn't good right now either for people that want one, at least in the USA. Gouging is taking place especially at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01012TLSS/?tag=tec06d-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0108U6JYC/?tag=tec06d-20

I think we are talking about 10 million cards every quarter. 1% is 100.000 cards. AMD would have to sell 500.000 cards to keep that 5%. Fury could not save the day in just a few weeks, even if there was availability.

 

[64K]

even if it were available I seriously doubt the 980 ti or the 980 are making up the bulk of nvidia's sales. I think the nvidia emphasis on a full line of new cards this round combined with the focus on temperature, noise, and power consumption is really what's causing this. The Fury X could have destroyed the 980 Ti and sales would still swing Nvidia's way.

I think we are talking about 10 million cards every quarter. 1% is 100.000 cards. AMD would have to sell 250.000 cards to keep that 5%(+2.5% for AMD, -2.5% for Nvidia). Fury could not save the day in just a few weeks, even if there was availability.

Yeah, I know. I have referenced the Steam hardware survey many times in posts to show in their figures that very very few people buy a high end card.

 

[profoundWHALE]

Yeah, I know. I have referenced the Steam hardware survey many times in posts to show in their figures that very very few people buy a high end card.

That still leaves out anyone who went ahead and got Battlefield 4 or something like that and just stuck with Origin/Uplay, whatever.

Still, it's a good number to reference. (I think)