• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Microsoft Details Shader Model 6.0

Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
7,531 (1.47/day)
Location
Rīga, Latvia
System Name HELLSTAR
Processor AMD RYZEN 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS Strix X570-E
Cooling 2x 360 + 280 rads. 3x Gentle Typhoons, 3x Phanteks T30, 2x TT T140 . EK-Quantum Momentum Monoblock.
Memory 4x8GB G.SKILL Trident Z RGB F4-4133C19D-16GTZR 14-16-12-30-44
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse RX 7900XTX. Water block. Crossflashed.
Storage Optane 900P[Fedora] + WD BLACK SN850X 4TB + 750 EVO 500GB + 1TB 980PRO+SN560 1TB(W11)
Display(s) Philips PHL BDM3270 + Acer XV242Y
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO
Audio Device(s) SMSL RAW-MDA1 DAC
Power Supply Fractal Design Newton R3 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow V3 - Yellow Switch
Software FEDORA 41
Well... so no GPU for me this year... will pick up a cheap 980ti from early adopters later in the year :pimp:
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.94/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
it'll be a while before SM6.0 hardware exists, and even when it does - we still get the CPU speed benefits, even if we dont get the GPU benefits.

We'll either be in for a generation of really efficient engines, or a generation of really complicated games (physics, AI, etc)
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
244 (0.04/day)
You guys claim that you are graphics card experts. (The posters, not the runners of this site which are actual experts.) You will not have games coming out that you cannot play on today's cards as well as those that come out in late 2016. Seriously, I am not sure if i should be disappointed that I am not surprised but then again, what can I expect on the internet.

On the topic at hand, additional and improved features are always welcome, good on Microsoft. :)
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.56/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
It could be implemented entirely in software, but obviously there will be a performance impact as opposed to having GPU hardware handle it.

That said, it appears that any graphics card that supports DirectX 12_1 will support SM6, which means that Maxwell 2 and Intel Gen9 (Skylake) IGPs should support it as soon as it's added to DirectX and implemented in drivers. Fury, however, is only 12_0 compliant and hence will not support SM6.
Well isn't that a kick in the pants for AMD's Fury lineup...
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
695 (0.15/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Eula
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7900X PBO
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi
Cooling Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT White
Memory Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 64GB (4x16GB F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR) EXPO II, OCCT Tested
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 GAMING OC
Storage Corsair MP600 XT NVMe 2TB, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 2TB, Toshiba N300 10TB HDD, Seagate Ironwolf 4T HDD
Display(s) Acer Predator X32FP 32in 160Hz 4K FreeSync/GSync DP, LG 32UL950 32in 4K HDR FreeSync/G-Sync DP
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A D-RGB White
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Platinum 1000W
Mouse SteelSeries Prime Pro Gaming Mouse
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 5
Software MS Windows 11 Pro
Well isn't that a kick in the pants for AMD's Fury lineup...
It's a load of BS. The "wavefront" refers to AMD's terminology for it's GpGPU.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,986 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
...You will not have games coming out that you cannot play on today's cards as well as those that come out in late 2016. Seriously, I am not sure if i should be disappointed that I am not surprised but then again, what can I expect on the internet.

On the topic at hand, additional and improved features are always welcome, good on Microsoft. :)
We know it takes rougly 4-5 years from an idea to a finalized hardware and driver implementation, and then up to two more years for good utilization in games.

I want the push towards new features because I want to utilize them, not because I think existing hardware will support it.
 

bridgmanAMD

AMD Rep
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
2 (0.00/day)
That said, it appears that any graphics card that supports DirectX 12_1 will support SM6, which means that Maxwell 2 and Intel Gen9 (Skylake) IGPs should support it as soon as it's added to DirectX and implemented in drivers. Fury, however, is only 12_0 compliant and hence will not support SM6.

Just curious, where did you get the 12_1 information ? The GDC slides seemed pretty clear about 12_0:



http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/03...-coming-in-2017-as-microsoft-shares-new-info/ (first slide on third row)

Thanks,
John
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,091 (3.82/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name H7 Flow 2024
Processor AMD 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus X570 Tough Gaming
Cooling Custom liquid
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Video Card(s) Intel ARC A750
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 2TB.
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Eweadn Mechanical
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
What's a 64 bit UINT?
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
1,400 (0.30/day)
Location
78°55' N, 11°56' E
System Name -aLiEn beaTs-
Processor Intel i7 11700kf @ 5.055Ghz
Motherboard MSI Z490 Unify
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro RGB
Memory G.skill Royal Silver 4400 cl17 @ 4403mhz
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 980TI AMP!Omega Factory OC 1418MHz
Storage Intel SSD 330, Crucial SSD MX300 & MX500
Display(s) Samsung C24FG73 144HZ
Case CoolerMaster HAF 932 USB3.0
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Titanium HD @ 2.1 Bose acoustimass 5
Power Supply CoolerMaster 850W v2 gold atx 2.52
Mouse Razer viper 8k
Keyboard Logitech G19s
Software Windows 11 Pro 21h2 64Bit
Benchmark Scores ► ♪♫♪♩♬♫♪♭
Cant some of you read between the lines?

Its not a HW but dx api feature. They changed 5.0 access to a more optimized 6.0 way now done on the fly instead "offline". That doesnt automatically mean it needs 6.0 pixel shader. Its a improved 5.0 code path using 5.x gpu HW.

Btw tiled resources are present in Kepler too so that kinda says it all how this SM 6.0 will work.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,722 (1.39/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
I still hold my breath, since I remember the times I had to scrap my GeFarce 7900 card because it didn't support the new SM 5.0 enabled games. See above post with the error....
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
695 (0.15/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Eula
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7900X PBO
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi
Cooling Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT White
Memory Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 64GB (4x16GB F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR) EXPO II, OCCT Tested
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 GAMING OC
Storage Corsair MP600 XT NVMe 2TB, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 2TB, Toshiba N300 10TB HDD, Seagate Ironwolf 4T HDD
Display(s) Acer Predator X32FP 32in 160Hz 4K FreeSync/GSync DP, LG 32UL950 32in 4K HDR FreeSync/G-Sync DP
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A D-RGB White
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Platinum 1000W
Mouse SteelSeries Prime Pro Gaming Mouse
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 5
Software MS Windows 11 Pro
I still hold my breath, since I remember the times I had to scrap my GeFarce 7900 card because it didn't support the new SM 5.0 enabled games. See above post with the error....
Geforce 7900 only supports Shader Model 3 with gimped 32bit FP performance.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
695 (0.15/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Eula
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7900X PBO
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi
Cooling Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT White
Memory Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 64GB (4x16GB F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR) EXPO II, OCCT Tested
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 GAMING OC
Storage Corsair MP600 XT NVMe 2TB, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 2TB, Toshiba N300 10TB HDD, Seagate Ironwolf 4T HDD
Display(s) Acer Predator X32FP 32in 160Hz 4K FreeSync/GSync DP, LG 32UL950 32in 4K HDR FreeSync/G-Sync DP
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A D-RGB White
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Platinum 1000W
Mouse SteelSeries Prime Pro Gaming Mouse
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 5
Software MS Windows 11 Pro
What's a 64 bit UINT?
64bit unsigned integer.

Read the following
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/...of-64bit-integer-algebra-in-the-latest-gpus-/



64bit int GPU GCN.png


64bit int GCN detail.png


It seems Shader Model 6 is being modeled from AMD GCN and Microsoft Xbox One has GCN.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
4 (0.00/day)
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
481 (0.13/day)
System Name Diablo | Baal | Mephisto | Andariel
Processor i5-3570K@4.4GHz | 2x Xeon X5675 | i7-4710MQ | i7-2640M
Motherboard Asus Sabertooth Z77 | HP DL380 G6 | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Cooling Swiftech H220-X | Chassis cooled (6 fans + HS) | dual-fanned heatpipes | small-fanned heatpipe
Memory 32GiB DDR3-1600 CL9 | 96GiB DDR3-1333 ECC RDIMM | 32GiB DDR3L-1866 CL11 | 8GiB DDR3L-1600 CL11
Video Card(s) Dual GTX 670 in SLI | Embedded ATi ES1000 | Quadro K2100M | Intel HD 3000
Storage many, many SSDs and HDDs....
Display(s) 1 Dell U3011 + 2x Dell U2410 | HP iLO2 KVMoIP | 3200x1800 Sharp IGZO | 1366x768 IPS with Wacom pen
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D | HP DL380 G6 Chassis | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD | None | On-board | On-board
Power Supply Corsair AX850 | Dual 750W Redundant PSU (Delta) | Dell 330W+240W (Flextronics) | Lenovo 65W (Delta)
Mouse Logitech G502, Logitech G700s, Logitech G500, Dell optical mouse (emergency backup)
Keyboard 1985 IBM Model F 122-key, Ducky YOTT MX Black, Dell AT101W, 1994 IBM Model M, various integrated
Software FAAAR too much to list
I still hold my breath, since I remember the times I had to scrap my GeFarce 7900 card because it didn't support the new SM 5.0 enabled games. See above post with the error....

Nothing special there... GeForce 7 series cards are D3D 9.0c SM3.0 cards. Same as the competing ATi X1000 cards. If your game supported D3D 9.0 rendering, it would work fine, if not, you'd be unable to run it. D3D 10/11 only games didn't appear till 2011 at least, as I recall as well, well after the launch of D3D 10 in 2007 (Vista), and D3D 11 in 2009 (Windows 7).

It wasn't until the GeForce 8000 and HD 2000 series that D3D 10 and SM4 was implemented (due mostly fundamental changes in how D3D worked in D3D 10), and D3D11 and SM5 didn't show up until the GeForce GTX 400 and Radeon HD 5000 series of cards showed up to market.

New tech happened to you. Deal with it and upgrade.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,461 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
shhh dont wake them up they think nvidia can support 12.1 without supporting dx12 first (no wait dx 11.3 since they dont use any of the low overhead commands)

Maxwell 2 has supported 11.0/11.1 (what in the world is 11.3?) and 12_0/12_1 for some time.

Granted, some of 12_1 is emulated at the moment but what you are spouting is complete BS.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
695 (0.15/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Eula
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7900X PBO
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi
Cooling Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT White
Memory Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 64GB (4x16GB F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR) EXPO II, OCCT Tested
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 GAMING OC
Storage Corsair MP600 XT NVMe 2TB, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 2TB, Toshiba N300 10TB HDD, Seagate Ironwolf 4T HDD
Display(s) Acer Predator X32FP 32in 160Hz 4K FreeSync/GSync DP, LG 32UL950 32in 4K HDR FreeSync/G-Sync DP
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A D-RGB White
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Platinum 1000W
Mouse SteelSeries Prime Pro Gaming Mouse
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 5
Software MS Windows 11 Pro
Nothing special there... GeForce 7 series cards are D3D 9.0c SM3.0 cards. Same as the competing ATi X1000 cards. If your game supported D3D 9.0 rendering, it would work fine, if not, you'd be unable to run it. D3D 10/11 only games didn't appear till 2011 at least, as I recall as well, well after the launch of D3D 10 in 2007 (Vista), and D3D 11 in 2009 (Windows 7).

It wasn't until the GeForce 8000 and HD 2000 series that D3D 10 and SM4 was implemented (due mostly fundamental changes in how D3D worked in D3D 10), and D3D11 and SM5 didn't show up until the GeForce GTX 400 and Radeon HD 5000 series of cards showed up to market.

New tech happened to you. Deal with it and upgrade.
GeForce 7 series cards has performance issues with shader branch and 32bit floating point math i.e. same issues for PS3's RSX.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
481 (0.13/day)
System Name Diablo | Baal | Mephisto | Andariel
Processor i5-3570K@4.4GHz | 2x Xeon X5675 | i7-4710MQ | i7-2640M
Motherboard Asus Sabertooth Z77 | HP DL380 G6 | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Cooling Swiftech H220-X | Chassis cooled (6 fans + HS) | dual-fanned heatpipes | small-fanned heatpipe
Memory 32GiB DDR3-1600 CL9 | 96GiB DDR3-1333 ECC RDIMM | 32GiB DDR3L-1866 CL11 | 8GiB DDR3L-1600 CL11
Video Card(s) Dual GTX 670 in SLI | Embedded ATi ES1000 | Quadro K2100M | Intel HD 3000
Storage many, many SSDs and HDDs....
Display(s) 1 Dell U3011 + 2x Dell U2410 | HP iLO2 KVMoIP | 3200x1800 Sharp IGZO | 1366x768 IPS with Wacom pen
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D | HP DL380 G6 Chassis | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD | None | On-board | On-board
Power Supply Corsair AX850 | Dual 750W Redundant PSU (Delta) | Dell 330W+240W (Flextronics) | Lenovo 65W (Delta)
Mouse Logitech G502, Logitech G700s, Logitech G500, Dell optical mouse (emergency backup)
Keyboard 1985 IBM Model F 122-key, Ducky YOTT MX Black, Dell AT101W, 1994 IBM Model M, various integrated
Software FAAAR too much to list
GeForce 7 series cards has performance issues with shader branch and 32bit floating point math i.e. same issues for PS3's RSX.

Which has nothing to do with the GeForce 7000 series not supporting SM5.0, since fundamentally, support for SM5.0 requires DX11, DX10, and SM4.0 support as implicit prerequisites. You'd have had the same experience with the (at the time) competing ATi X1000 series as well.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
695 (0.15/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Eula
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7900X PBO
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi
Cooling Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT White
Memory Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 64GB (4x16GB F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR) EXPO II, OCCT Tested
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 GAMING OC
Storage Corsair MP600 XT NVMe 2TB, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 2TB, Toshiba N300 10TB HDD, Seagate Ironwolf 4T HDD
Display(s) Acer Predator X32FP 32in 160Hz 4K FreeSync/GSync DP, LG 32UL950 32in 4K HDR FreeSync/G-Sync DP
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A D-RGB White
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Platinum 1000W
Mouse SteelSeries Prime Pro Gaming Mouse
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 5
Software MS Windows 11 Pro
Which has nothing to do with the GeForce 7000 series not supporting SM5.0, since fundamentally, support for SM5.0 requires DX11, DX10, and SM4.0 support as implicit prerequisites. You'd have had the same experience with the (at the time) competing ATi X1000 series as well.
From forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.


11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

On ATI X1000 series





Microsoft's Warp12 software CPU render has DirectX12 compatibility but it has performance issues.

From https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb944006(v=vs.85).aspx#Pixel_Shader_Inputs

Pixel Shader Inputs
For pixel shader versions ps_1_1 - ps_2_0, diffuse and specular colors are saturated (clamped) in the range 0 to 1 before use by the shader.

Color values input to the pixel shader are assumed to be perspective correct, but this is not guaranteed (for all hardware). Colors sampled from texture coordinates are iterated in a perspective correct manner, and are clamped to the 0 to 1 range during iteration.


There's a reason why NVIDIA has "The Way It's Meant to be Played" exist and it's not a paper weight.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
481 (0.13/day)
System Name Diablo | Baal | Mephisto | Andariel
Processor i5-3570K@4.4GHz | 2x Xeon X5675 | i7-4710MQ | i7-2640M
Motherboard Asus Sabertooth Z77 | HP DL380 G6 | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Cooling Swiftech H220-X | Chassis cooled (6 fans + HS) | dual-fanned heatpipes | small-fanned heatpipe
Memory 32GiB DDR3-1600 CL9 | 96GiB DDR3-1333 ECC RDIMM | 32GiB DDR3L-1866 CL11 | 8GiB DDR3L-1600 CL11
Video Card(s) Dual GTX 670 in SLI | Embedded ATi ES1000 | Quadro K2100M | Intel HD 3000
Storage many, many SSDs and HDDs....
Display(s) 1 Dell U3011 + 2x Dell U2410 | HP iLO2 KVMoIP | 3200x1800 Sharp IGZO | 1366x768 IPS with Wacom pen
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D | HP DL380 G6 Chassis | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD | None | On-board | On-board
Power Supply Corsair AX850 | Dual 750W Redundant PSU (Delta) | Dell 330W+240W (Flextronics) | Lenovo 65W (Delta)
Mouse Logitech G502, Logitech G700s, Logitech G500, Dell optical mouse (emergency backup)
Keyboard 1985 IBM Model F 122-key, Ducky YOTT MX Black, Dell AT101W, 1994 IBM Model M, various integrated
Software FAAAR too much to list
From forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.


11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

And what exactly does the PS3 GPU have to do with DirectX? Or the GeForce 7 with SM6 aside from pointing out it's a really old GPU that should have been replaced years ago and never supported D3D10/SM4, let alone D3D11/SM5?

I mean, sure, Xenos most certainly looks like it's a better, more flexible piece of kit than the RSX, but again, what does it have to do with SM6?
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
695 (0.15/day)
Location
Australia
System Name Eula
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7900X PBO
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus Wifi
Cooling Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT White
Memory Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 64GB (4x16GB F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR) EXPO II, OCCT Tested
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 GAMING OC
Storage Corsair MP600 XT NVMe 2TB, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 2TB, Toshiba N300 10TB HDD, Seagate Ironwolf 4T HDD
Display(s) Acer Predator X32FP 32in 160Hz 4K FreeSync/GSync DP, LG 32UL950 32in 4K HDR FreeSync/G-Sync DP
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A D-RGB White
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply Corsair HX1000 Platinum 1000W
Mouse SteelSeries Prime Pro Gaming Mouse
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 5
Software MS Windows 11 Pro
And what exactly does the PS3 GPU have to do with DirectX? Or the GeForce 7 with SM6 aside from pointing out it's a really old GPU that should have been replaced years ago and never supported D3D10/SM4, let alone D3D11/SM5?

I mean, sure, Xenos most certainly looks like it's a better, more flexible piece of kit than the RSX, but again, what does it have to do with SM6?
You asserted "GeForce 7 series cards are D3D 9.0c SM3.0 cards. Same as the competing ATi X1000 cards" which is BS.

For example

From https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb944006(v=vs.85).aspx#Pixel_Shader_Inputs
Pixel Shader Inputs
For pixel shader versions ps_1_1 - ps_2_0, diffuse and specular colors are saturated (clamped) in the range 0 to 1 before use by the shader.

Color values input to the pixel shader are assumed to be perspective correct, but this is not guaranteed (for all hardware). Colors sampled from texture coordinates are iterated in a perspective correct manner, and are clamped to the 0 to 1 range during iteration.







There's a reason why NVIDIA has "The Way It's Meant to be Played" exist and it's not a paper weight. If Geforce 7 and competing ATi X1000 cards are the same then "The Way It's Meant to be Played" shouldn't exist.

PS3's RSX exposes the hardware issues on GeForce 7. NVIDIA "The Way It's Meant to be Played" for Geforce 7 will be avoiding or minimise some of the points shown with RSX's hardware issues.


I might point out AMD GCN 1.0 is aging better than NVIDIA Kepler.

AMD GCN 1.0 just needs Tiled Resource Tier 2 for DirectX12 FL12_0

dx12w5j9d.png


There are other D3D12 capabilities exposed as cap-bits not listed (I.e. standard swizzle, raw major texture access on multi-adapter, cross-node sharing tier, process and resource address space in bits).
 
Last edited:
Top