• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

TSMC to Build New $15.7 Billion Fab in Taiwan, for 3 nm and 5 nm Chips

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.24/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.), one of the foremost semiconductor producers in the world - which controls a leading 55% share of the global market - said on Wednesday it plans to build a new, $15.7 billion facility in Taiwan that would churn out 5 nm and 3 nm chips. If TSMC were to achieve these production nodes in a timely fashion (with "timely" meaning "before their competitors"), that would prove a huge boon for the company, as everyone - and especially deep-pocketed smartphone chip designers such as Apple and Qualcomm - is looking towards evolution in process nodes, which allows for improvements in power consumption, performance, size and cost of chips per wafer.

"We're asking the government to help us find a plot that is large enough (123 to 197 acres) and has convenient access so we can build an advanced chip plant to manufacture 5 nm and 3 nm chips," TSMC spokesperson Elizabeth Sun said. The spokesperson declined to provide details about the timing of the construction and production, though it's seemingly still a few years away (yet close enough for it to merit an official request). TSMC co-CEO Mark Liu had already mentioned that the company was working on 5 nm chips, and had assigned the task of developing 3 nm technology and conducting research on 2 nm technology to upwards of 300 engineers. Delays on EUV (Extreme Ultraviolet) lithography have slowed expected advancements in further miniaturization of the process nodes. It remains to be seen which technology TSMC is counting on towards aiding them in their goals for 5 nm, 3 nm and the mentioned 2 nm chip production, especially since at those sizes, we start leaving the usual realm of plane old physics, crossing the threshold towards their exotic cousins, quantum physics.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Last edited:

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,747 (3.97/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
TSMC never beat anyone to any process node. What they need to do is follow closely. Beating the competition would be better, of course, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
296 (0.07/day)
System Name Darkside
Processor R7 3700X
Motherboard Aorus Elite X570
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx l240
Memory Thermaltake Toughram DDR4 3600MHz CL18
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX Vega 64 Gaming OC
Storage ADATA & WD 500GB NVME PCIe 3.0, many WD Black 1-3TB HD
Display(s) Samsung C27JG5x
Case Thermaltake Level 20 XL
Audio Device(s) iFi xDSD / micro iTube2 / micro iCAN SE
Power Supply EVGA 750W G2
Mouse Corsair M65
Keyboard Corsair K70 LUX RGB
Benchmark Scores Not sure, don't care
3nm and 5nm chips!? Is that even possible? At what point do they split the atom?

:toast:
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,707 (1.39/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
It remains to be seen which technology TSMC is counting on towards aiding them in their goals for 5 nm, 3 nm and the mentioned 2 nm chip production, especially since at those sizes, we start leaving the usual realm of plane old physics, crossing the threshold towards their exotic cousins, quantum physics.
This is a little forced. Quantum size means sub-atomic sizes. Looooong way to go until there.
Just for the reference , the Silicon atom size is ~0.117nm, meaning you still have 9 atoms for each 1nm... and so on.
 

TiN

Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
215 (0.04/day)
Location
USA
System Name selfmade caseless :D
Processor Intel ES
Motherboard EVGA X299 DARK ES :)
Cooling LN2
Memory G.SKILL DDR4 @ 3600MHz
Video Card(s) GTX Kingpin's
Storage Intel P4500 4TB
Display(s) Philips BDM4350
Case none
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi
Power Supply EVGA NEX 1500W's
Mouse None (trackball)
Keyboard Steelseries APEX RAW and Corsair K-something
Software W2k8 R2 64bit SP1, FreeBSD 12
Benchmark Scores http://www.hwbot.org/community/user/tin?oldstyle=true
It's funny how second photo in news of TSMC shows Intel Pentium E2200 65nm CPU :)
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
1,586 (0.33/day)
Location
Kaunas, Lithuania
System Name my box
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi x470 Ultimate
Cooling NZXT Kraken x72
Memory 2×16GiB @ 3200MHz, some Corsair RGB led meme crap
Video Card(s) AMD [ASUS ROG STRIX] Radeon RX Vega64 [OC Edition]
Storage Samsung 970 Pro && 2× Seagate IronWolf Pro 4TB in Raid 1
Display(s) Asus VG278H + Asus VH226H
Case Fractal Design Define R6 Black TG
Audio Device(s) Using optical S/PDIF output lol
Power Supply Corsair AX1200i
Mouse Razer Naga Epic
Keyboard Keychron Q1
Software Funtoo Linux
Benchmark Scores 217634.24 BogoMIPS
This is a little forced. Quantum size means sub-atomic sizes. Looooong way to go until there.
Just for the reference , the Silicon atom size is ~0.117nm, meaning you still have 9 atoms for each 1nm... and so on.

gee, I wonder what are they going to do with all that quantum tunnelling
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
531 (0.11/day)
Location
Inside a mini ITX
System Name ITX Desktop
Processor Core i7 9700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro WiFi Z390
Cooling Arctic esports 34 duo.
Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 3000MHz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 Gaming OC White PRO
Storage Samsung 970 EVO Plus | Intel SSD 660p
Case NZXT H200
Power Supply Corsair CX Series 750 Watt
especially since at those sizes, we start leaving the usual realm of plane old physics, crossing the threshold towards their exotic cousins, quantum physics.

This is a false statement. Semiconductor electronics has always been based on quantum physics. Even a simple P-N junction diode (regardless of the manufacturing node) characteristics is derived from Fermi-Dirac distribution and Pauli exclusion principle.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
1,034 (0.18/day)
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 360 A-RGB
Memory 32 GB Ballistix Elite DDR4-3600 CL16
Video Card(s) XFX 6800 XT Speedster Merc 319 Black
Storage Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1TB
Display(s) LG 27GL850B x 2 / ASUS MG278Q
Case be quiet! Silent Base 802
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster AE-7 / Sennheiser HD 660S
Power Supply Seasonic Vertex PX-1200
Software Windows 11 Pro 64
I'm sure China is grateful for the new factory.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
296 (0.07/day)
System Name Darkside
Processor R7 3700X
Motherboard Aorus Elite X570
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx l240
Memory Thermaltake Toughram DDR4 3600MHz CL18
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX Vega 64 Gaming OC
Storage ADATA & WD 500GB NVME PCIe 3.0, many WD Black 1-3TB HD
Display(s) Samsung C27JG5x
Case Thermaltake Level 20 XL
Audio Device(s) iFi xDSD / micro iTube2 / micro iCAN SE
Power Supply EVGA 750W G2
Mouse Corsair M65
Keyboard Corsair K70 LUX RGB
Benchmark Scores Not sure, don't care
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.21/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
3nm and 5nm chips!? Is that even possible? At what point do they split the atom?

:toast:
I think a better question is what does that really mean.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
769 (0.23/day)
Location
Earth's Troposphere
System Name 3 "rigs"-gaming/spare pc/cruncher
Processor R7-5800X3D/i7-7700K/R9-7950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VI Extreme/Asus Ranger Z170/Asus ROG Crosshair X670E-GENE
Cooling Bitspower monoblock ,custom open loop,both passive and active/air tower cooler/air tower cooler
Memory 32GB DDR4/32GB DDR4/64GB DDR5
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX6900XT Alphacooled/AMD RX5700XT 50th Aniv./SOC(onboard)
Storage mix of sata ssds/m.2 ssds/mix of sata ssds+an m.2 ssd
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp U2410 , HP 24x
Case mb box/Silverstone Raven RV-05/CoolerMaster Q300L
Audio Device(s) onboard/onboard/onboard
Power Supply 3 Seasonics, a DeltaElectronics, a FractalDesing
Mouse various/various/various
Keyboard various wired and wireless
VR HMD -
Software W10.someting or another,all 3
Not the first ones tough.
 

Attachments

  • 1481443978645.jpg
    1481443978645.jpg
    402.9 KB · Views: 462

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.36/day)
Well im holding off my playstation purchase until 5nm then. the pro slim ^2 version. And 3nm better be 2 years apart.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
566 (0.11/day)
Location
mississauga, on, Canada
System Name YACS amd
Processor 5800x,
Motherboard gigabyte x570 aorus gaming elite.
Cooling bykski GPU, and CPU, syscooling p93x pump
Memory corsair vengeance pro rgb, 3600 ddr4 stock timings.
Video Card(s) xfx merc 310 7900xtx
Storage kingston kc3000 2TB, amongst others. Fanxiang s770 2TB
Display(s) benq ew3270u, or acer XB270hu, acer XB280hk, asus VG 278H,
Case lian li LANCOOL III
Audio Device(s) obs,
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti pro 1000w
Mouse logitech g703
Keyboard durogod keyboard. (cherry brown switches)
Software win 11, win10pro.
3nm and 5nm chips!? Is that even possible? At what point do they split the atom?

:toast:

Rule of thumb... for TSMC node sizes, double the number. (To equal intel's "real number) So 3nm and 5nm equal 6nm and 10nm... Intel is already working on that size of nodes. (Both TSMC and intel FAR IN THE FUTURE)

BTW, this rule of thumb only really applies to node sizes below TSMC 10nm...

I was wondering about the TSMC node sizes when apple stated that their processor was going to be made at node 10nm... thinking that TSMC beat Intel at the fab game, i googled it, happened upon an EE Times article "TSMC detail silicone road map" (would link it but the site eetimes site is "unavailable" )
And they mentioned that TSMC node sizes tend to be the minimum gate size, instead of the interconnect (metal) grid size ... (i believe intel states the interconnect size, thus the larger number)
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
566 (0.11/day)
Location
mississauga, on, Canada
System Name YACS amd
Processor 5800x,
Motherboard gigabyte x570 aorus gaming elite.
Cooling bykski GPU, and CPU, syscooling p93x pump
Memory corsair vengeance pro rgb, 3600 ddr4 stock timings.
Video Card(s) xfx merc 310 7900xtx
Storage kingston kc3000 2TB, amongst others. Fanxiang s770 2TB
Display(s) benq ew3270u, or acer XB270hu, acer XB280hk, asus VG 278H,
Case lian li LANCOOL III
Audio Device(s) obs,
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti pro 1000w
Mouse logitech g703
Keyboard durogod keyboard. (cherry brown switches)
Software win 11, win10pro.
Well im holding off my playstation purchase until 5nm then. the pro slim ^2 version. And 3nm better be 2 years apart.

Funny, yet they will ( most likely ) use TSMC's 7nm (14) process for ps5... although Sony did mention that the PS five will be a "clean slate"... not sure what that means, perhaps it means they don't want to be locked into a FAB (or processor?) and perhaps It might go to Intel or TSMC or whoever gives them an "offer they can't refuse" /lol
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
13,162 (2.81/day)
Location
Concord, NH, USA
System Name Apollo
Processor Intel Core i9 9880H
Motherboard Some proprietary Apple thing.
Memory 64GB DDR4-2667
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon Pro 5600M, 8GB HBM2
Storage 1TB Apple NVMe, 4TB External
Display(s) Laptop @ 3072x1920 + 2x LG 5k Ultrafine TB3 displays
Case MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Audio Device(s) AirPods Pro, Sennheiser HD 380s w/ FIIO Alpen 2, or Logitech 2.1 Speakers
Power Supply 96w Power Adapter
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Logitech G915, GL Clicky
Software MacOS 12.1
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,268 (1.07/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
Funny, yet they will ( most likely ) use TSMC's 7nm (14) process for ps5... although Sony did mention that the PS five will be a "clean slate"... not sure what that means, perhaps it means they don't want to be locked into a FAB (or processor?) and perhaps It might go to Intel or TSMC or whoever gives them an "offer they can't refuse" /lol

If Sony goes Intel they drop backwards compatibility and devs would have to change their code again. Not to mention, Intel's Integrated GPUs suck. Why would they switch from AMD who has much better GPUs and significant experience integrating parts into consoles to Intel who has neither?
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,747 (3.97/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
If Sony goes Intel they drop backwards compatibility and devs would have to change their code again. Not to mention, Intel's Integrated GPUs suck. Why would they switch from AMD who has much better GPUs and significant experience integrating parts into consoles to Intel who has neither?
What backwards compatibility? PS2 was MIPS, PS3 was POWER and now PS4 is x86_64. Going intel will actually preserve compatibility for a change.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,432 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,141 (0.53/day)
Location
Serbia
Processor Ryzen 5600
Motherboard X570 I Aorus Pro
Cooling Deepcool AG400
Memory HyperX Fury 2 x 8GB 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) RX 6700 10GB SWFT 309
Storage SX8200 Pro 512 / NV2 512
Display(s) 24G2U
Case NR200P
Power Supply Ion SFX 650
Mouse G703 (TTC Gold 60M)
Keyboard Keychron V1 (Akko Matcha Green) / Apex m500 (Gateron milky yellow)
Software W10
Funny, yet they will ( most likely ) use TSMC's 7nm (14) process for ps5... although Sony did mention that the PS five will be a "clean slate"... not sure what that means, perhaps it means they don't want to be locked into a FAB (or processor?) and perhaps It might go to Intel or TSMC or whoever gives them an "offer they can't refuse" /lol
If Zen is half as a success as we expect it to be, you can bet Sony will not go with Intel. Getting all your essential parts from one place is god given. And by the time PS5 comes out HBM will be in full swing. Imagine what a evolved Zen apu with HBM can achieve.
 

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.24/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
Top