AMD Says The Windows Thread Scheduler is "operating properly" for Ryzen.

[cadaveca]

lol ok sure. Just like the Titan was "Not Mainstream" but the 290X was - and the 290X was stronger.

You can obsess about labels all you want, but AMD's "Mainstream" chips are beating Intel's "Premium".

Not really. The HEDT version of Summit Ridge has 16 cores and 32 threads, and is called Naples. The current available Ryzen chips are enthusiast mainstream processors.

you can find info about Naples from AMD directly here:

https://www.amd.com/en/events/naples-tech-day

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Not really. The HEDT version of Summit Ridge has 16 cores and 32 threads, and is called Naples. The current available Ryzen chips are enthusiast mainstream processors.

you can find info about Naples from AMD directly here:

https://www.amd.com/en/events/naples-tech-day

The problem is that the 1800x is priced like a 6800k without the chipset featureset to compete with X99.

 

[cadaveca]

The problem is that the 1800x is priced like a 6800k without the chipset featureset to compete with X99.

PC Enthusiasts have lots of money to spend, don'tcha know? JPR says so.

The western appetite for PC gaming systems costing thousands of dollars is strong.

http://jonpeddie.com/publications/pc_gaming_hardware_market_report

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

PC Enthusiasts have lots of money to spend, don'tcha know? JPR says so.



http://jonpeddie.com/publications/pc_gaming_hardware_market_report

That report doesn't really say much of.... anything, unless you're referring to more information in the paywalled reports.

 

[cadaveca]

Yeah, they gotta do something to make people pay.

 

[mastrdrver]

It should be pointed out that Nehalem was not as faster as Yorktown because of lack of optimization and also that Hyperthreading performance also suffered a performance hit as well in games.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

It should be pointed out that Nehalem was not as faster as Yorktown because of lack of optimization and also that Hyperthreading performance also suffered a performance hit as well in games.

That doesn't help consumers today, or tomorrow even. The market will judge a product both today, and in a month from now.

Given AMD's track record of "oh, it'll get better later", I'm still leaning towards the intel side right now. All that "DX12" future proofing because the games are right around the corner?

Well, we're still waiting a year and a half later, as people are considering another upgrade cycle. Good thing everyone futureproofed!

 

[RejZoR]

PCPer did some interesting testing as well that reflects AMD's findings.

Watch the whole video, they talk about something that might be an issue though.

Is it really an issue though? Yes, AMD has a latency thing in between that goes beyond 100ns, but it also has just 40ns response compared to 80ns response on Intel when it comes to things in the realm of "normal" operation. So it does 90% of things 50% faster than Intel and those 10% is what, 30% slower than Intel? It's an architectual difference which will then solely depend on the workload. I don't think it's really an issue to be honest.

 

[Imsochobo]

Is it really an issue though? Yes, AMD has a latency thing in between that goes beyond 100ns, but it also has just 40ns response compared to 80ns response on Intel when it comes to things in the realm of "normal" operation. So it does 90% of things 50% faster than Intel and those 10% is what, 30% slower than Intel? It's an architectual difference which will then solely depend on the workload. I don't think it's really an issue to be honest.

In some games\apps it affects performance severely, CCX issues, I found up to 30% with average of 5-15 % in those affected.
DO NOTE: This is not all games, let's say it's 10% performance for 10% of the games\applications - Which is still much for the big picture but in no way will Ryzen (version 1) be faster than Intel's offering.
But I have no issues gaming on a R7 1700 stock, and neither will 95% of you guys.

Fix needed:
Treat CCX as different cpu sockets until load is above 4 core load. then treat as one cpu unless otherwise specified by application or game.

 

[RejZoR]

You got a valid point there though. Sticking to 1 CCX for =<4 threads (or 8 with HT) would help instead of going outside of the CCX complex through slower interconnection. Not sure if Windows can have any awareness over CCX complexes though. I think it only understands physical and logical cores, but can't differentiate between CCX units within same CPU.

 

[Imsochobo]

You got a valid point there though. Sticking to 1 CCX for =<4 threads (or 8 with HT) would help instead of going outside of the CCX complex through slower interconnection. Not sure if Windows can have any awareness over CCX complexes though. I think it only understands physical and logical cores, but can't differentiate between CCX units within same CPU.

Windows are already aware of it.......
Windows scheduler doesn't seem to be aware, or something else.

 

[HTC]

Would like AMD to tell me is what happens here is also normal:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-21#post-38789965

Pay special attention to the 2nd video, but watch the 1st one 1st.

 

[RejZoR]

Windows are already aware of it.......
Windows scheduler doesn't seem to be aware, or something else.

Are you sure Windows is aware of CCX units? I'm talking actual CCX clusters, not individual physical cores and their corresponding logical units which Windows is in fact aware of already. As far as I know Windows is able to differentiate sockets, physical and logical units. CCX is a cluster of 4 physical and 4 logical units within one socket. And you can have more CCX units. I really don't think Windows is aware of individual CCX units specifically.

 

[Rahmat Sofyan]

based on connectivity and pricing, current Ryzen chips are "mainstream". I do not have any HEDT-qualifying boards, only mainstream ones.

It's AMD that dictates that, BTW. They say Ryzen is a mainstream product, so that's what it is.

the Raven Ridge APUs are for mobility and AIO uses, not mainstream. There will be some models that make it into the AM4 desktop platform for sure, but APUs are not a "mainstream" platform on their own.

So RyZen 9 will coming for Highend or Enthusiast users?

Ryzen 9 1900X and 1900 series?

 

[cadaveca]

So RyZen 9 will coming for Highend or Enthusiast users?

Ryzen 9 1900X and 1900 series?

Nope. Naples is an 8-channel (per CPU), dual-socket monster with 32 threads. Not sure what its retail name will be.

 

[Imsochobo]

Are you sure Windows is aware of CCX units? I'm talking actual CCX clusters, not individual physical cores and their corresponding logical units which Windows is in fact aware of already. As far as I know Windows is able to differentiate sockets, physical and logical units. CCX is a cluster of 4 physical and 4 logical units within one socket. And you can have more CCX units. I really don't think Windows is aware of individual CCX units specifically.

¨

It is aware of where L3 cache is linked and to which cores, keep threads on same L3 cache is enough to hinder the issue until queue\Core count is larger than X number
Thus keeping core walking and assignment of cores in one CCX.

Anyways, it's easy to figure it out, creating the ruleset perfectly just takes time but all the tools is present in Windows now and I think a c programmer would need 3 hours to create benefits in specific scenarios.
The big question is if it destroys performance elsewhere, and if it does the AMD statement might be to kill expectations of any quick fix as Q&A takes time.

 

[Aquinus]

The HEDT version of Summit Ridge has 16 cores and 32 threads, and is called Naples.

Naples is the server variant. I consider HEDT a product gears towards to the top of the consumer market but, I wouldn't call Naples a HEDT platform just as you wouldn't call C32 or G34 HEDT either. AMD has a segment for entry/low-power and another for mainstream and high-end. Intel has one for entry and mainstream but, a separate one for high-end. At the end of the day, they're all labels but, I think referring to Naples as something intended for the consumer HEDT market is really stretching it.

The problem is that the 1800x is priced like a 6800k without the chipset featureset to compete with X99.

Since when did the 6800k gain ECC support?

 

[Joss]

Would like AMD to tell me is what happens here is also normal:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-21#post-38789965

Pay special attention to the 2nd video, but watch the 1st one 1st.

Good videos, thanks.
yah, AMD only refers core/ht scheduling (first video) but not CCX scheduling (video 2) .

 

[GhostRyder]

The only real issue I was seeing was the gaming performance (Specifically at 1080p). I don't think the windows scheduler was the main problem, its probably the way the games are using Ryzen which will take time to fix.

 

[dorsetknob]

Naples is an 8-channel (per CPU), dual-socket monster with 32 threads. Not sure what its retail name will be.

Redzilla

 

[geon2k2]

PCPer did some interesting testing as well that reflects AMD's findings.

Watch the whole video, they talk about something that might be an issue though.

Very good video. Thanks for sharing. We asumed before that the comunication between the CCXes is the issue, but now it is clear and this means 4 core 8 thread Ryzen will rock
The current 16 core Ryzen, is a server part, which they push to consumer, the same they did with Buldozer and it doesn't work. You cannot have one design to win them all.

 

[cadaveca]

You cannot have one design to win them all.

Not unless it's crafted in the fiery pits of Mordor. But you make an excellent observation... because that's kind of exactly what AMD says they are trying to do.

AMD delivers to PC gamers, prosumers and enthusiasts

What's more funny to me is that a prosumer and an enthusiast are the same thing. What they mean by that term "prosumer" should be more scrutinized.

What is even funnier is What else she said, about making Ryzen available to millions (rather than billions). There is quite a bit of honesty portrayed in those words that I think most of our tech enthusiast media missed out on. These are words given in business lingo, which is very much like "legalese", and it seems to me that when they put Lisa Su in charge, they made the right choice. I hope I'm not the only one that understand why.

 

[Xzibit]

What's more funny to me is that a prosumer and an enthusiast are the same thing. What they mean by that term "prosumer" should be more scrutinized.

I disagree

They should be more clear on what "Enthusiast" is.

Prosumer is active in use and more likely to purchase
Enthusiast may never use or buy a product of which he shows interest in.

Some use Enthusiast to mean High-End.

 

[Joss]

What is even funnier is What else she said, about making Ryzen available to millions (rather than billions). There is quite a bit of honesty portrayed in those words that I think most of our tech enthusiast media missed out on

Interesting.

 

[mastrdrver]

That doesn't help consumers today, or tomorrow even. The market will judge a product both today, and in a month from now.

Given AMD's track record of "oh, it'll get better later", I'm still leaning towards the intel side right now. All that "DX12" future proofing because the games are right around the corner?

Well, we're still waiting a year and a half later, as people are considering another upgrade cycle. Good thing everyone futureproofed!

People said the same thing for Nehalem when it came out. Bad for gaming, good for server.

The bad at gaming at launch didn't hurt it's reputation, I'm sure Ryzen will not be hurt by it's "poor" gaming performance given a few years.