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Editorial Jailbreaking American Tractors with Ukrainian Firmware

Easy Rhino said:
Wow, a company protecting its brand and its business model. This is going to happen more and more. Get used to it.
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No different than most new vehicle manufacturers voiding warranties if non genuine parts are used.
 
Didnt read anything but the title...Does it come with Vodka?

EDIT: Read the article... (wondering why this is at TPU and not GN outside of throwing anything remotely technical on the wall for a couple quid.. :p)
 
Easy Rhino said:
Wow, a company protecting its brand and its business model. This is going to happen more and more. Get used to it.
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Pretty sure that line has looong been crossed, this isn't patented, nor highly sophisticated tech they are protecting this is simply "If you need to fix your thing that you bought from us, you can only bring it to us to fix and no on else." Imagine if you bought a car, and you couldn't get it maintained nor repaired anywhere else except at the dealership even though it's past the warranty period.

Caring1 said:
No different than most new vehicle manufacturers voiding warranties if non genuine parts are used.
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Except there's no warranty and genuine parts are being used.
 
Totally said:
Imagine if you bought a car, and you couldn't get it maintained nor repaired anywhere else except at the dealership even though it's past the warranty period.

Except there's no warranty and genuine parts are being used.
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Except most of the machinery would be leased, not owned.
 
Caring1 said:
Except most of the machinery would be leased, not owned.
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Think about it, would this even be an issue if leases were involved? That last quip was pretty nonsensical since the topic is related to ownership.
 
Totally said:
Think about it, would this even be an issue if leases were involved? That last quip was pretty nonsensical.
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Nonsensical to think the lease wouldn't stipulate the farmer has to pay for services and use genuine parts, at great expense.
 
Caring1 said:
Nonsensical to think the lease wouldn't stipulate the farmer has to pay for services and use genuine parts, at great expense.
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But leases weren't being talked about in the first place, you kind of brought up leases out of no where but to add to that leases are not a transfer of ownership so that kind of goes without saying.
 
Totally said:
Pretty sure that line has looong been crossed, this isn't patented, nor highly sophisticated tech they are protecting this is simply "If you need to fix your thing that you bought from us, you can only bring it to us to fix and no on else." Imagine if you bought a car, and you couldn't get it maintained nor repaired anywhere else except at the dealership even though it's past the warranty period.



Except there's no warranty and genuine parts are being used.
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So? If you have a problem with it then don't buy one. You don't have a right to tell other people how to run their business. You can vote with your wallet or GTFO.
 
DeathtoGnomes said:
Know that JD found a way to make that work like this you have to give them props for being bigger a****oles than Cummins.
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John Deere manufacturers everything themselves which includes engines and transmissions. There's no one in their supply chain that really has the position to buck them other than the customers themselves and, let's be honest, most won't.

The way I look at it is that most hardware on farm equipment that breaks and is field serviceable like teeth, stalk stompers, and snouts aren't going to have ECUs, and therefore, are still field serviceable. The moment John Deere starts requiring service people to change those parts, the farmers (John Deere is literally costing them money) and service people (why am I wasting time doing something the farmer could do) will revolt.

Farmers don't have the time nor equipment to do a transmission swap where the ECU is used so this doesn't hurt farmers as much as it hurts independent equipment service people which, let's be honest, don't really exist already.


Edit: Let me be very clear: old farm equipment is pretty rare to see. Farming in the USA is all about the economics of scale. Scale means bigger equipment. Bigger equipment means new equipment. I think a lot of US farm equipment gets sold to other countries where there is demand for big machinery but not enough funds to buy new. If memory serves, there is actually companies in the USA that exist for the express purpose of buying used equipment in the USA and selling it abroad.

If I had to guess, Ukraine probably ended up with some of this older equipment that is functionally obsolete in the USA. They likely salvaged the part from a different machine and installed it on a mostly working machine to make it operational again discovering the ECU locks. That's likely when they set off to jailbreak it because the manual labor was already done.
 
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reminds me of monsanto: we own the pig and the seed or next will be human replace parts or what is to come.
 
Easy Rhino said:
So? If you have a problem with it then don't buy one. You don't have a right to tell other people how to run their business. You can vote with your wallet or GTFO.
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Well, I'd agree in most cases if it was some sort of commodity but not this one as it concerns people's livelihood since these pieces of equipment are what they depend on to live. There aren't many players when it comes to heavy industrial farm equipment, it's not like they can just simply waltz on down to the next dealership 5 min away and throw in with that guy. So "vote with your wallet or GTFO" isn't an option if the farmers like keeping the lights on, or food on the table. JD is only doing this because "wallet voting" is not possible for those affected and it makes them money. If you can't see what's wrong with this completely predatory practice, I don't know what else to say.
 
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Love me some hacked tractors
 
This ECU issues extends beyond tractors it's present with regular automobiles as well it's just a bit less pervasive overall, but you know damn well that probably won't last because reasons aka greed related ones.
 
Makes me think of HP printers that now has firmware update that block the refilled and none HP ink cartridges. So you pay double the price for supplies so they put more in their pocket.
 
HTC said:
Meanwhile, them farmers should show John Deere company the respect they deserve by doing further tractor / farm equipment purchases from their direct competition.
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+1 This is the exact way of thinking that pushes things in the right direction. Take action into your own hands.
 
The only competitor, really, is New Holland. I wouldn't be surprised if New Holland does the same.
 
Im pretty sure there are more tractors, just bit harder to get. Time for EU to invade USA with.. tractooors!

Or Mother Russia (they make some too).
 
FordGT90Concept said:
The only competitor, really, is New Holland. I wouldn't be surprised if New Holland does the same.
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Ford and Caterpillar also but also Komatsu Who are growing on the market.
 
Ford (CaseIH too) is owned by New Holland. Caterpillar is rare. Komatsu is pretty much restricted to skid steers.
 
Caterpillar tractors are made by AGCO and their combines by Class. AGCO makes a bunch of different brands http://www.agcocorp.com/brands.html Case New Holland is owned by CNH Industrial and is controlled by Exor (Italian) and has been passed around like the village bicycle hence the Ford tractors. Mahindra has been doing pretty well.
 
FordGT90Concept said:
Ford (CaseIH too) is owned by New Holland. Caterpillar is rare. Komatsu is pretty much restricted to skid steers.
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Where Do you live? Because in Canada Komatsu have much more than Skid steer. Its from that Up to mining equipment.
 
FordGT90Concept said:
The only competitor, really, is New Holland. I wouldn't be surprised if New Holland does the same.
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CNH by way of Fiat is bigger than Deere, and Case IH is the larger of the two overall, New Holland keeps playing chicken with their dealers in North America almost like they have a death wish.
 
JunkBear said:
Where Do you live? Because in Canada Komatsu have much more than Skid steer. Its from that Up to mining equipment.
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Dead center of the midwest (pretty sure my county is the most productive farm land in the world). Komatsu does sell other equipment but I've literally never seen Komatsu farm equipment other than skid steers.

Steevo said:
CNH by way of Fiat is bigger than Deere, and Case IH is the larger of the two overall, New Holland keeps playing chicken with their dealers in North America almost like they have a death wish.
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The Case IH brand is far more popular than New Holland in the USA but they're fundamentally the same thing painted different colors. :roll:
 
I dont know about USA but in Québec we have thé Massey Ferguson brand.
 
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