US House of Representatives Confirms Senate's Privacy Stance on ISPs

[rtwjunkie]

I'm saddened that you see these posts this way, because for all my lurking, I have always respected your opinion. And you have a right to it - I'm not debating that.

I appreciate that, and I suspect that is because I am very even-keeled, not usually getting outlandish or swinging too far off the center. But this gets my hair on end.

I firmly believe that politics do not belong here. This could have been presented in an apolitical and non-opinionated manner. You didn't choose that route.

Also, a story about a vote to repeal a measure only in place for 5 months is not the end of the world. It wasn't the end of the world before last year. Let's not make it so now. I ask that you please either show restraint in your editorializing, or bring in ALL the world's tech-related political news....WITH your opinions on their situations as well.

 

[alucasa]

There are always 2 sides to a coin.

This post was made to lean heavily to one side which Ravenlord believes in. And that is where it went badly wrong.

I wouldn't have minded an objective posting regarding it. But I see no objective report but subjective.

 

[the54thvoid]

I'm saddened that you see these posts this way, because for all my lurking, I have always respected your opinion. And you have a right to it - I'm not debating that.

What's on point here is that there was a chance - and there still is, albeit a slim one, in which I have no faith whatsoever - that these rules would have been implemented. That there would be a light in the tunnel in respect to your rights, that your privacy wouldn't be available for sale to the highest bidder whether you want it to or not. If you don't care, and are OK with that, ok. That's your prorrogative. But this being enforced on anyone who just so happens to be using the ol' Internet, I think isn't fair nor the world some want to live in.




I considered covering that, for a second. Then gave up on the idea exactly because of what @horsemama1956 said (quoted below). Brexit is monumental (even more so for me, as an european). But its impact on tech isn't as straightforward as this one. Brexit vs this is like comparing the Coriolis' effect with a brick wall's on a flying bullet. At least this is how I see it. Hence, I cover Brexit someplace else - not here.





Thank you. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I happen to agree with you, and that's why I feel the need to cover this.

Don't be bullied by US people. It's how some folk roll. TPU covered UK digital privacy rules last year, so the patriots can piss off.
It's a sad fact that you get steam roller by the usual suspects for or saying anything resembling anti US sentiment when in fact it's nothing more than an piece on relevant isp data.
As for @rtwjunkie, you can't really argue that a situation can be bad before it is enacted in law when it has been the norm. I respect you but the argument isn't fully logical.

Now about to receive the US backlash. Sad day for open discussion.

Edit. And given the hate, thread should be closed sooner.

 

[rtwjunkie]

As for @rtwjunkie, you can't really argue that a situation can be bad before it is enacted in law when it has been the norm. I respect you but the argument isn't fully logical.

Nah, no backlash, as I respect your opinions. I disagree though. If the privacy issue was SO important to people, there would have been years of outrage prior to October. People are acting as if all of a sudden they are being denied privacy rights they always had. Not so.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Don't be bullied by US people. It's how some folk roll. TPU covered UK digital privacy rules last year, so the patriots can piss off.
It's a sad fact that you get steam roller by the usual suspects for or saying anything resembling anti US sentiment when in fact it's nothing more than an piece on relevant isp data.
As for @rtwjunkie, you can't really argue that a situation can be bad before it is enacted in law when it has been the norm. I respect you but the argument isn't fully logical.

Now about to receive the US backlash. Sad day for open discussion.

Edit. And given the hate, thread should be closed sooner.

I got an idea. How about we talk about hardware and software and not what a pack of feral assholes are doing in Washington? Maybe we could call this place.....I dunno. Techpowerup.com or something and if people want to talk Washington savagery we could call it.......maybe something like generalnonsense_net-this_site_no_longer_exists.

 

[alucasa]

Washington plays partyline politics. It's either left or right. No compromise whatsoever. It's the most broken political entity at this point.

If US's a beacon, the world is doomed.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

I can't believe people fell for this. Liberals have been using F.U.D. to get all kinds of rules, regulations and laws passed. So when this was written, health information, financial information and SSN's were written in there for the F.U.D. factor. (my opinion BTW) Thing is, I'm 99.99% sure that it's illegal to sell or share that kind of information ANYWAY. Also, the people (the Obama administration) who wrote this also wrote Obamacare which does collect all of that information in one place. How long till we hear that it's been hacked???? (or worse yet, it takes them years to discover the hacking)

On a similar note, the FDA is clamping down on the use of unprocessed moon dust in all food products.

Sad day for open discussion.

The problem is that the OP is full of so much FUD that there's almost no way to have a real discussion about this. Most of the OP is factually incorrect. It would take a team of lawyers a while to actually analyze and correct the OP before we could actually have an honest discussion.

If US's a beacon, the world is doomed.

You're right. When our Supreme court starts quoting European law instead of our own law, we are doomed. And they have.

 

[Gundem]

I don't live in the USA but even I find it hard to swallow its possibility... it seems very intense. It seems very drastic and extreme.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Nah, no backlash, as I respect your opinions. I disagree though. If the privacy issue was SO important to people, there would have been years of outrage prior to October. People are acting as if all of a sudden they are being denied privacy rights they always had. Not so.

How about you take your blinders off? There has been outrage over privacy rights, its been an on going fight for years, the fact that its not mainstream news anymore means most people are tired of talking about privacy issues. If anyone else wants to ignore the elephant just because it showed up here on TPU please, put a sock in it and stop attacking the reporter for his choices.

 

[rtwjunkie]

How about you take your blinders off? There has been outrage over privacy rights, its been an on going fight for years, the fact that its not mainstream news anymore means most people are tired of talking about privacy issues. If anyone else wants to ignore the elephant just because it showed up here on TPU please, put a sock in it and stop attacking the reporter for his choices.

Actually you are the one with blinders on, otherwise you would KNOW already that this is not new, it is a reversion to what was before October. @thebluebumblebee even helpfully provided you documentation, which you should have read before you showed your ass as clueless.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

Right to privacy is not in the constitution. Just the messenger here, not that I support this at all.

You fail to understand how the Constitution works. There are enumerated and unenumerated rights. The Constitution only says what the government can do.

If you ever read the Federalist papers or understood the discussions between the federalist and anti federalist you would know this topic was covered and how the federalists feared idiots like you would exist. You seriously fail to understand the most basics here.

You have the right to do anything you want as long as it does not infringe anyone else's rights. This relates to negative rights.

http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/positive-rights-vs-negative-rights/

Additionally, the right of privacy is stated in several Amendments and the Declaration of Independence.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html

There is no logical reason to claim you do not have an inherent right to privacy. There are plenty of reasons why someone infringing your right to privacy would negatively hurt your right to liberty, happiness, and so on.

VPN and TOR have been compromised for years.

I mentioned this in another thread. THE FBI let a child sex trafficking ring go because they didn't want to produce how they cracked TOR. Think about it. They let people who rape and murder children go because they didn't want to show their 1337 haxor tools to the court. Please by all means. Use VPN and TOR. Make yourself a target. If you were smart you would do one of two things. 1. Don't do anything you wouldn't show a cop. 2. Unplug the computer.


This is my point. Its beyond F@#$KING STUPID to cover this crap on the front page.

The take away from this should be that US Government distributed over 50% of all child porn and the US government is the biggest creep ever. Also the "rational" the government uses to claim child porn is criminal means the government can't distribute it without also being a criminal of epic proportions...but i think this is cover in the FYTW clause between the commerce clause.

 

[ensabrenoir]

The same way private conversations between the president and foreign leaders leaked transcripts within 24 hours of the conversation. My advice to you is don't do anything online you wouldn't put a sign up in your front yard to say. I have been saying it for years. The second you go online expect ZERO privacy.

Understand it was less than 5 years ago China got a hold of MILLIONS of federal workers social security numbers. Did that make front page news anywhere? Not really. ISP selling browsing habits isn't a big deal in the scheme of things.

? that just dont make sense....... anything concerning hacking or the internet quite litterally is tech related. If they decide to do an article about a 2nd grader who lit up a light bulb with a potato.......its tech related. Isp doing shady/stupid/greedy things....its tech related. Intelligently deficient people in high positions (from any party) making bad decisions concerning you and me through technology.....its related and a concern.

 

[DRDNA]

people will walk into a unescapable cage just to prevent the bite of a lion.

 

[Sasqui]

Can someone post the list of the 15 Republicans that voted against it?

Seems like they are the last true Republicans

Conversely, I donated $10 to this cause. I may be fleeced, but it sure sounds good:

This ---> https://www.gofundme.com/searchinternethistory

 

[Shou Miko]

Why not sell all politicians private life while we r on this train?

I know they will love that, being ass******* by their own law again and again and again, srsly we normal ppl want some privacy this here ain't the 70s or something or at war time come on stupid politicians wake up it's not the normal person they need to attack with this

 

[qubit]

This is very bad news for privacy and manipulation of the masses. Now that Britain has triggered effing brexit today, how long do you think it will be until this garbage comes over here? I give it a year or two from the separation from the EU in 2019.

Thanks for reporting this @Raevenlord.

 

[rtwjunkie]

this garbage comes over here

You didn't read many posts, did you?

The "garbage" was only gone for 5 months. They aren't taking away something that the people have had since time immemorial. But that is some people's reactions. They are returning to the status quo that we as a people have allowed for many, many years. Some act as if this is a new erosion of privacy though. Hell, we haven't had any for most of my life.

 

[alucasa]

Not just Brexit. There is 2nd Scotland independence referendum as well which I call bullshit.

2 independence referendums in 2 years?

Actually, I supported Yes for the first independence referendum because oil price was high at that time. Now, oil price is crap and, if Scotland goes
independent now, they will feel pain.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

This is very bad news for privacy and manipulation of the masses. Now that Britain has triggered effing brexit today, how long do you think it will be until this garbage comes over here? I give it a year or two from the separation from the EU in 2019.

Thanks for reporting this @Raevenlord.

pretty sure UK pioneered this with the NSA help guzzling the whole internet and all skype calls. You know how many terrible terrorists were found? 0 but they did see a lot of dicks and boobs. Was awesome too...you had 8 months to find out if you were spied on. Its awesome the government can spy and infringe your rights but can quietly make a short window to file suit and tells you to suck it after words. Too bad my statue of limitations wasn't 9 months for all crimes with 0 real penalty.

 

[Kursah]

How about you take your blinders off? There has been outrage over privacy rights, its been an on going fight for years, the fact that its not mainstream news anymore means most people are tired of talking about privacy issues. If anyone else wants to ignore the elephant just because it showed up here on TPU please, put a sock in it and stop attacking the reporter for his choices.

This issue is something we should've been fighting A LOT harder for..and not for years...let's try several decades to be more accurate and appropriate. We as a society have failed repeatedly in the realm of privacy because it has been made all too clear that we'd rather enjoy convenience than take the steps to prevent things that nobody really needed in the first place. There's too few standing up, and the cattle have spoken and voted, the government can push this shit right on through because they know there's not enough that care to stop it.

The next time someone enjoys using their cell phone, long distance, cable TV, satellite TV, Internet, discount cards, credit cards, store memberships, car insurance, or really most any service anymore...know that in some aspect or another...what you do, when you do it, what you choose, how you go about it, how often you do it, etc., etc., is being mined, collected, parsed, stored and sold over and over and over again and has been for so long that many members here weren't even alive when this all began. Fucked isn't it?

Going backwards on how this industry has been for so many years (or again, decades) would likely be a near impossible feat without getting the majority of society involved and changing their habits of who, what, where, when and why they spend, browse, etc. Stopping all the shit people choose to do and how they live on a daily basis, including myself because I'm guilty of having and using services that I know track me...it's harder to find services that don't than do anymore.

Consider this too, the folks that started it are likely retiring or have retired...so we've been doing this so long that it is normal! It is truly disturbing. They've had government support for so long too, that stopping this monster would be a huge feat...bring on the zombie apocalypse or Cold War 2 or WW3 or other huge and horrendous global-scale changing event, because otherwise I don't see things changing all that much.

Many could give a shit less how they're tracked as-long-as they get the best deals on Amazon, get their Netflix, get their grocery store discounts or 3 cents/gal cheaper fuel, extra speed for Internet, extra channels on their cable package, etc. Profit is profit, and we've let them profit from us for so long...that we're all addicted to it's design and really helped design it. Plus there's varying levels of data mining that many folks don't even consider, and at the end of the day, they all have taken bits of our privacy away to the extent what we view as privacy is like living in a fish tank or terrarium when we're at home.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

This issue is something we should've been fighting A LOT harder for..and not for years...let's try several decades to be more accurate and appropriate. We as a society have failed repeatedly in the realm of privacy because it has been made all too clear that we'd rather enjoy convenience than take the steps to prevent things that nobody really needed in the first place. There's too few standing up, and the cattle have spoken and voted, the government can push this shit right on through because they know there's not enough that care to stop it.

The next time someone enjoys using their cell phone, long distance, cable TV, satellite TV, Internet, discount cards, credit cards, store memberships, car insurance, or really most any service anymore...know that in some aspect or another...what you do, when you do it, what you choose, how you go about it, how often you do it, etc., etc., is being mined, collected, parsed, stored and sold over and over and over again and has been for so long that many members here weren't even alive when this all began. Fucked isn't it?

Going backwards on how this industry has been for so many years (or again, decades) would likely be a near impossible feat without getting the majority of society involved and changing their habits of who, what, where, when and why they spend, browse, etc. Stopping all the shit people choose to do and how they live on a daily basis, including myself because I'm guilty of having and using services that I know track me...it's harder to find services that don't than do anymore.

Consider this too, the folks that started it are likely retiring or have retired...so we've been doing this so long that it is normal! It is truly disturbing. They've had government support for so long too, that stopping this monster would be a huge feat...bring on the zombie apocalypse or Cold War 2 or WW3 or other huge and horrendous global-scale changing event, because otherwise I don't see things changing all that much.

Many could give a shit less how they're tracked as-long-as they get the best deals on Amazon, get their Netflix, get their grocery store discounts or 3 cents/gal cheaper fuel, extra speed for Internet, extra channels on their cable package, etc. Profit is profit, and we've let them profit from us for so long...that we're all addicted to it's design and really helped design it. Plus there's varying levels of data mining that many folks don't even consider, and at the end of the day, they all have taken bits of our privacy away to the extent what we view as privacy is like living in a fish tank or terrarium when we're at home.

part of the issue is how the Supreme Court has made up fake legal law to allow the erosion of our rights. The third party doctrine and Reasonable expectation crap they made up to expand government power needs to die.

Permission slips need to die too :/

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Actually you are the one with blinders on, otherwise you would KNOW already that this is not new, it is a reversion to what was before October. @thebluebumblebee even helpfully provided you documentation, which you should have read before you showed your ass as clueless.

I cant read what isnt posted (I did not refresh the page), and its clear you didnt comprehend what I wrote or what I was referring to. No biggie, your selective reading is duly noted.

 

[Jism]

People should realise even tho it's not happening, that privacy is a right, of everyone. Surfing the internet is simular as reading your favourite (tech)book at home without anyone actually spying over your shoulders about what you read.

In Europe there is no such thing as selling ISP data to the public, i'm sure it's for now all about 'big data' and not personal browsing history. But it will be in the very future now that that law is here.

A proper ISP in USA should never sell it's consumers data, i'm pretty sure that a few of them can actually make a good revenue out of it for simply not doing so.

After W7 is EOL, i'm heading over to Linux, and be focussing on using a VPN anyway. There is no such thing in trying to gather or track my browsing data or data that i send over the line i rent.

It's as hiring a house, and the owner is looking daily on who i let in and out. It's none of their personal damn business.

MS, Google, Yahoo, all of them are just as bad as those ISP's that vouched for this. Buying games these days is you never own a hard copy, but always have these stored in some cloud where you dont have access to. We live in strange times with a not so bright future.

 

[rtwjunkie]

This issue is something we should've been fighting A LOT harder for..and not for years...let's try several decades to be more accurate and appropriate. We as a society have failed repeatedly in the realm of privacy because it has been made all too clear that we'd rather enjoy convenience than take the steps to prevent things that nobody really needed in the first place. There's too few standing up, and the cattle have spoken and voted, the government can push this shit right on through because they know there's not enough that care to stop it.

The next time someone enjoys using their cell phone, long distance, cable TV, satellite TV, Internet, discount cards, credit cards, store memberships, car insurance, or really most any service anymore...know that in some aspect or another...what you do, when you do it, what you choose, how you go about it, how often you do it, etc., etc., is being mined, collected, parsed, stored and sold over and over and over again and has been for so long that many members here weren't even alive when this all began. Fucked isn't it?

Going backwards on how this industry has been for so many years (or again, decades) would likely be a near impossible feat without getting the majority of society involved and changing their habits of who, what, where, when and why they spend, browse, etc. Stopping all the shit people choose to do and how they live on a daily basis, including myself because I'm guilty of having and using services that I know track me...it's harder to find services that don't than do anymore.

Consider this too, the folks that started it are likely retiring or have retired...so we've been doing this so long that it is normal! It is truly disturbing. They've had government support for so long too, that stopping this monster would be a huge feat...bring on the zombie apocalypse or Cold War 2 or WW3 or other huge and horrendous global-scale changing event, because otherwise I don't see things changing all that much.

Many could give a shit less how they're tracked as-long-as they get the best deals on Amazon, get their Netflix, get their grocery store discounts or 3 cents/gal cheaper fuel, extra speed for Internet, extra channels on their cable package, etc. Profit is profit, and we've let them profit from us for so long...that we're all addicted to it's design and really helped design it. Plus there's varying levels of data mining that many folks don't even consider, and at the end of the day, they all have taken bits of our privacy away to the extent what we view as privacy is like living in a fish tank or terrarium when we're at home.

You get it, and it was well said. You understand that we as a people let that privacy erode for decades. Yet most don't pay attention and have no clue how little privacy they have had all their lives.

So now, here we are, with the OP acting like Americans are suddenly losing privacy rights with the repeal of a 5 month old statute (which only returned a minuscule portion of our privacy), and people up in arms thinking the same thing as the OP, because hardly anyone, including the OP did their own research.

And THAT is my objection: people acting as if this is new. Well, since they are obviously clueless and happy about what they didn't have in the first place, then returning them to that status should be no big deal.

To be clear, I object to lack of privacy. It is my fundamental right. But I am pragmatic enough to understand that other than clear Governmental intrusion on the 4th Amendment, that ship has sailed, and all I can do is be cautious, though it is only partially effective in this open world.

 

[TheMailMan78]

You get it, and it was well said. You understand that we as a people let that privacy erode for decades. Yet most don't pay attention and have no clue how little privacy they have had all their lives.

So now, here we are, with the OP acting like Americans are suddenly losing privacy rights with the repeal of a 5 month old statute (which only returned a minuscule portion of our privacy), and people up in arms thinking the same thing as the OP, because hardly anyone, including the OP did their own research.

And THAT is my objection: people acting as if this is new. Well, since they are obviously clueless and happy about what they didn't have in the first place, then returning them to that status should be no big deal.

To be clear, I object to lack of privacy. It is my fundamental right. But I am pragmatic enough to understand that other than clear Governmental intrusion on the 4th Amendment, that ship has sailed, and all I can do is be cautious, though it is only partially effective in this open world.

It's not about the facts for the OP. It's the same old chicken Little narrative we saw when Qubit was posting. Short on facts and long on emotion.