US House of Representatives Confirms Senate's Privacy Stance on ISPs

[ensabrenoir]

........emotions vs facts.....emotions (desire to know the truth) drives us to find the facts that we want to keep emotions out of. The human condition is illogical. Fact, fiction, logic and emotion is inseparable within us. Everyone crying for facts should go read a dictionary or some encyclopedias or something. Our illogical nature is our greatest strength...when used correctly . It didn't make sense for man to try to fly when we could walk just fine. Why did we go to the moon? Tons of facts and knowledge driven by a crazy notion..... Even given the dry facts one will come to his on interpretation and there by corrupted conclusion. WISDOM is the successful application of knowledge and the key to all here. First it was all Bush's fault, then Obama and now Herr Trump's turn to screw things up.... No we put these people in office so the true fault lies with that guy in the mirror. Trust your heart/gut, examine the facts, let your response exude the wisdom of the two because in truth they're both inseparable.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

You get it, and it was well said. You understand that we as a people let that privacy erode for decades. Yet most don't pay attention and have no clue how little privacy they have had all their lives.

So now, here we are, with the OP acting like Americans are suddenly losing privacy rights with the repeal of a 5 month old statute (which only returned a minuscule portion of our privacy), and people up in arms thinking the same thing as the OP, because hardly anyone, including the OP did their own research.

And THAT is my objection: people acting as if this is new. Well, since they are obviously clueless and happy about what they didn't have in the first place, then returning them to that status should be no big deal.

To be clear, I object to lack of privacy. It is my fundamental right. But I am pragmatic enough to understand that other than clear Governmental intrusion on the 4th Amendment, that ship has sailed, and all I can do is be cautious, though it is only partially effective in this open world.

I dont know where you were but people didnt just let privacy erode. The blinders refer to the fight for privacy that you so dutifully deny is there. Its' not a fight vs the government but vs the advertising lobbyist that have big $$$ to spend on votes. 30 years ago it was harder to fight privacy changes it wasnt talked about as much then it is now. Thanks to Google and Facebook its become a mainstream issue, they caused an awareness to privacy brought about because of how our personal information is being used to make money.

The problem lies with idiots that continue to say "they have nothing to hide", they dont care about anyone but themselves because they dont see or dont care what it means to others so those idiots dont object to anything until it comes to losing money. These are the people that sit on the sidelines and wait for something to happen then jump on the bandwagon (like democrats...). It was several years before anyone said, or did, anything about companies doubleclick.com/net collecting names, addresses, phones numbers and credit card information. If that didnt happen, think where online shopping would be today.

The results of our 30+ year long fight for digital privacy resulted in programs and browser add-ons to block tracking cookies and spyware, because if the advertising cant collect information, they cant use it. This statue denied ISP's from profiting on the selling of personal information, now they can. The hoo-haa in this thread is that its a political article that doesnt belong on TPU, I say it matters to me, and does belong here because it affects future choices in what I would like to have for software in an attempt to block whatever information goes out of my pc. I would prefer my ISP not sell my information but there is nothing I can do with data I have no control over on their servers.

And everyone knows Xfinity/comcast are greedy bastards so when they sell data, you can be sure we wont see any benefits from that, not even a price reduction of internet access.

Nope not a new issue.

 

[Frick]

While I agree on principle with @TheMailMan78, I just find the concept of data mining fascinating. Details about exactly what they will be able to sell I have no idea about, but seeing how Target figured out a teenage girl was pregnant before her dad did based solely on her shopping habits ... combine this with deep learning and whathaveyou and the future truly is amazing. I mean this is essentially a logical next step on what we have now, a commoditization of what is already happening. It might even be slightly positive in the long run because it might make people more aware. I bet it won't, but there is a possibility. I actually LOLed when they made the decision.

The main difference between now and before btw is that before they could not sell that data, not legally anyway, now they can. What it will actually mean practically is still to be seen.

Meanwhile, the EU recently found Swedens data storage laws unlawful and my ISP immedietly purged their data, and they provide a free VPN for their customers.

 

[TheMailMan78]

While I agree on principle with @TheMailMan78, I just find the concept of data mining fascinating. Details about exactly what they will be able to sell I have no idea about, but seeing how Target figured out a teenage girl was pregnant before her dad did based solely on her shopping habits ... combine this with deep learning and whathaveyou and the future truly is amazing. I mean this is essentially a logical next step on what we have now, a commoditization of what is already happening. It might even be slightly positive in the long run because it might make people more aware. I bet it won't, but there is a possibility. I actually LOLed when they made the decision.

The main difference between now and before btw is that before they could not sell that data, not legally anyway, now they can. What it will actually mean practically is still to be seen.

Meanwhile, the EU recently found Swedens data storage laws unlawful and my ISP immedietly purged their data, and they provide a free VPN for their customers.

I got 10 to 1 odds the EU is still mining data. If not.....we are.

 

[Frick]

I got 10 to 1 odds the EU is still mining data. If not.....we are.

Obviously they do, but again, the great difference is that they can legally sell that data.

 

[_JP_]

I got 10 to 1 odds the EU is still mining data. If not.....we are.

Well, obviously, if the server being accessed is in the USA. Laws vary by country as such.

For so long have the "Privacy Modes" "Do not Tracks" "Cookie blocks" been placebo effects for privacy. It just translates to: "I want to see new ads every time I load a web page and spend more time searching for what I want."
And VPNs aren't the savior many think. You may send HTTP(s) requests from another place, but your habits/behaviours are the same...and AI knows that

 

[TheMailMan78]

Obviously they do, but again, the great difference is that they can legally sell that data.

You do understand the US and most European nations share info about its citizens? Meaning the US cant legally spy on US citizens. However its not illegal in the UK to spy on US citizens? SO we spy for each other. Technically no laws are broken. Why do you think the US built that monstrosity in Utah and now another one in Maine I believe. Its all part of the "Five Eyes" system along with the BND, DGSE, FSB and the MSS. That just ain't US personal info being stored. Its yours also.

Again people worrying about ISP making a dime off of your porn habits are worried about the wrong s#!t. As a matter of fact you are naïve as hell. TOR, VPN really? That's like rolling up a window in a car. They still see you plain as day. Welcome to the Global Economy people. I bet you wish you had a second amendment now don't ya? Because one day soon THEY ARE going to NWO our asses. By all means however keep towing that propaganda line giving the people the illusion of freedom. TPU threads like this are EXACTLY what they want. Just keep ignoring the man behind the curtain and point your rage elsewhere.

THIS is why crap like this needs to stay off of TPU. Take this junk to GN.

 

[Frick]

Again people worrying about ISP making a dime off of your porn habits are worried about the wrong s#!t. As a matter of fact you are naïve as hell. TOR, VPN really? That's like rolling up a window in a car. They still see you plain as day. Welcome to the Global Economy people. I bet you wish you had a second amendment now don't ya? Because one day soon THEY ARE going to NWO our asses. By all means however keep towing that propaganda line giving the people the illusion of freedom. TPU threads like this are EXACTLY what they want. Just keep ignoring the man behind the curtain and point your rage elsewhere.

But the point is still now it will be legal, whereas now it isn't. The selling of data.

 

[rtwjunkie]

But the point is still now it will be legal, whereas now it isn't. The selling of data.

It's only not been legal for 5 months.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

It's only not been legal for 5 months.

it is now officially legal. Before there was no law stopping it or allowing it. So still open to lawsuits and other issues. Now they are pretty much protected by the law to do it with little consequences for stolen data.

 

[TheMailMan78]

But the point is still now it will be legal, whereas now it isn't. The selling of data.

Yup. It will be legal. You are correct and I got what you were saying. My point it means jack S#!t in the grand scheme of things and this thread isn't what made TPU great.

 

[rtwjunkie]

it is now officially legal. Before there was no law stopping it or allowing it. So still open to lawsuits and other issues. Now they are pretty much protected by the law to do it with little consequences for stolen data.

No, you misinterpret what happened. Repealing a law which disallows that is not the same as saying you have free license to do what you want. It returns things to the previous state.

 

[Frick]

No, you misinterpret what happened. Repealing a law which disallows that is not the same as saying you have free license to do what you want. It returns things to the previous state.

So you mean it was legal for ISP's to sell data without consent a year ago? Honest question.

 

[rtwjunkie]

So you mean it was legal for ISP's to sell data without consent a year ago? Honest question.

It wasn't regulated, which means it wasn't DISallowed.

 

[TheMailMan78]

It wasn't regulated, which means it wasn't DISallowed.

They have been selling it for a while now. Another reason I don't know what the big deal is now.

 

[Fx]

This all might sound absurd and stupid to you and I, but there are many who don't care or aren't aware of this at all.

I realized some of you want to subdue this information but a good journalist always try to educate his/her readers and that is what Raevenlord has done. I failed to understand why some of you are even arguing/squabbling about this being posted.

It isn't absurd to me. I am not sure why anyone would not want stories directly related to technology on a front page. This news is perfectly acceptable to me.

By not talking about these absurd events, ignorance that happened in the past when it mattered most is never going to wake up to a state in which required action can happen. It is a simple concept.

In other words, just because something is fucked up, you shouldn't just say, "oh well, we are already screwed now" and be on about your life accepting every incrementing strike to your rights and privacy.

Thank you Raevenlord. I'll happily read articles about technology and indirect news about technology.

 

[ty_ger]

The problem I have with considering a VPN:
1) Can you trust them? Do you know the people who run the service, know whether they are in someone else's pocket, or know if they aren't already sharing all their traffic information confidentially to the government and/or other third parties?
2) The VPN funnels your traffic through one point which makes is much easier to monitor and compile. At least without a VPN, its a little harder to find all your actions scattered around the net.
3) I have nothing to hide. I don't want someone to steal my money or my identity, but otherwise there isn't much there for me to be concerned about.


The problem I have with the ISPs crying that it isn't fair that Facebook and Google get to make a bunch of money off of targeted advertising but the ISPs weren't allowed to:
1) The standard consumer doesn't pay Facebook or Google directly to use their service. Their advertising is what supports their business.
2) Since you are paying your ISP for your internet connection, you should be in control of that service. If the ISP is going to sell your information, the ISP should reimburse you (or provide the internet connection for free like in item 1).
3) Since ISPs have such a huge monopoly, we don't really have a choice. Our only choice is to have internet or not have internet. If we had a choice to purchase from companies which don't sell our data, then the issue would work itself out naturally through capitalism. Since we instead have an ISP monopoly, we are screwed.
4) Pitchforks and torches.


The problem I have with ISPs selling my data:
1) I would have no problem with it as long as it doesn't increase my spam mail, spam email, or phone calls in any way AND as long as they can guarantee that my identity and financial information will never be exploited or leaked in any way -- on purpose or by accident -- as a result.

 

[Agentbb007]

Can someone post the list of the 15 Republicans that voted against it?

Seems like they are the last true Republicans

This page shows the republicans who didn't vote for it. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h202

Vote Party Representative District
Nay R Brooks, Mo AL 5th
Nay R McClintock, Tom CA 4th
Nay R Coffman, Mike CO 6th
Nay R Yoder, Kevin KS 3rd
Nay R Graves, Garret LA 6th
Vote Party Representative District
Nay R Amash, Justin MI 3rd
Nay R Zeldin, Lee NY 1st
Nay R Faso, John NY 19th
Nay R Stefanik, Elise NY 21st
Nay R Jones, Walter NC 3rd
Vote Party Representative District
Nay R Davidson, Warren OH 8th
Nay R Sanford, Mark SC 1st
Nay R Duncan, John TN 2nd
Nay R Herrera Beutler, Jaime WA 3rd
Nay R Reichert, David WA 8th

 

[Frick]

It wasn't regulated, which means it wasn't DISallowed.

This just brings up a host of questions. But whatever. I can't say I care that much. vOv

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

No, you misinterpret what happened. Repealing a law which disallows that is not the same as saying you have free license to do what you want. It returns things to the previous state.

what you are not understand is precedence. Before there was no precedence saying it was legal or illegal so a judge would be impartial but more inclined to rule on right infringement according to natural law.

Now that congress removed a regulation (not a law) it sets even more precedence that there is no legal protection to privacy in this regard and judges are now more so forced to rule in the ISPs favor (due to a false notion of judicial deference created by the Supreme Court). Also laws/regulations were past in this too. I think EFF covered this. I remember reading somewhere the only requirement is reasonable security measure, which essentially means nothing. They only have to prove they "tried" protecting your data and privacy so you are pretty much completely out of luck suing them.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

Okay done editing lol

This page shows the republicans who didn't vote for it. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h202

Vote Party Representative District
Nay R Brooks, Mo AL 5th
Nay R McClintock, Tom CA 4th
Nay R Coffman, Mike CO 6th
Nay R Yoder, Kevin KS 3rd
Nay R Graves, Garret LA 6th
Vote Party Representative District
Nay R Amash, Justin MI 3rd
Nay R Zeldin, Lee NY 1st
Nay R Faso, John NY 19th
Nay R Stefanik, Elise NY 21st
Nay R Jones, Walter NC 3rd
Vote Party Representative District
Nay R Davidson, Warren OH 8th
Nay R Sanford, Mark SC 1st
Nay R Duncan, John TN 2nd
Nay R Herrera Beutler, Jaime WA 3rd
Nay R Reichert, David WA 8th

thanks, surprised massie voted yes :/ Dick. Amash no surprised voted no.

The problem I have with considering a VPN:
1) Can you trust them? Do you know the people who run the service, know whether they are in someone else's pocket, or know if they aren't already sharing all their traffic information confidentially to the government and/or other third parties?
2) The VPN funnels your traffic through one point which makes is much easier to monitor and compile. At least without a VPN, its a little harder to find all your actions scattered around the net.
3) I have nothing to hide. I don't want someone to steal my money or my identity, but otherwise there isn't much there for me to be concerned about.


The problem I have with the ISPs crying that it isn't fair that Facebook and Google get to make a bunch of money off of targeted advertising but the ISPs weren't allowed to:
1) The standard consumer doesn't pay Facebook or Google directly to use their service. Their advertising is what supports their business.
2) Since you are paying your ISP for your internet connection, you should be in control of that service. If the ISP is going to sell your information, the ISP should reimburse you (or provide the internet connection for free like in item 1).
3) Since ISPs have such a huge monopoly, we don't really have a choice. Our only choice is to have internet or not have internet. If we had a choice to purchase from companies which don't sell our data, then the issue would work itself out naturally through capitalism. Since we instead have an ISP monopoly, we are screwed.
4) Pitchforks and torches.


The problem I have with ISPs selling my data:
1) I would have no problem with it as long as it doesn't increase my spam mail, spam email, or phone calls in any way AND as long as they can guarantee that my identity and financial information will never be exploited or leaked in any way -- on purpose or by accident -- as a result.

you have nothing to hide....right. Tell that to everyone that has been falsely imprisoned. You are naive and ignorant to say that. Twice the federal government has tried to count how many crimes exist and they couldnt even figure it out. Best guess is 30,000-300,000 if not more since crimes just expand and never shrink.

This effort, headed by Ronald Gainer, a Justice Department official, is considered the most exhaustive attempt to count the number of federal criminal laws. In a Wall Street Journalarticle about this project, “this effort came as part of a long and ultimately failed campaign to persuade Congress to revise the criminal code, which by the 1980s was scattered among 50 titles and 23,000 pages of federal law.” Or as Mr. Gainer characterized this fruitless project: “[y]ou will have died and [been] resurrected three times,” and still not have an answer to this question.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-question-how-many-federal-laws-are-there/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_offence

There are at least 5,000 federal criminal laws, with 10,000-300,000 regulations that can be enforced criminally. In fact, our entire criminal code has become a leviathan unto itself. In 2003, there were only 4,000 offences that carried criminal penalties. By 2013, that number had grown by 21 percent to 4,850. The code has become so big, that the Congressional Research Service and the American Bar Association simply do not have enough staff to adequately categorize every law we have on the books.

Despite this rampant overcriminalization, Congress continues to criminalize at an average rate of one new crime for every week of every year. Practically all inherently wrongful conduct has been criminalized several times over, yet from 2000 through 2007, Congress enacted 452 new criminal offenses

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/06/06/how-many-federal-laws-are-there-again-n2009184

Also plenty of people get falsely arrested all the time for Rape, drug war, child porn, and plenty of other crimes that they never committed. (or get shot/murdered for following orders or doing nothing illegal) If someone wants to charge you with a crime they can. You will break the law daily if not at least once....really daily. Also they can just falsify everything.

http://reason.com/archives/2016/07/18/faulty-tests-create-fake-drug-crimes
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...thheld-evidence-then-happened-again/99724064/
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...k-doughnut-glaze-for-meth-20160727-story.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...olonoscopy-by-cops-wins-16-million-settlement

and on and on and on.....
FYI Marines in war zones can't do this and would be court martialed and thrown in the brig then would get double jeopardy and charged in civilian courts.

You need to open your eyes and actually educate yourself. Prosecutors and cops falsify records all the time to charge people.

Hell you don't even need to do anything. All it takes is 1 little troll under 18 to send you a picture in a bra and instantly you face 350 years in prison.

https://reason.com/blog/2017/02/14/teen-girl-sends-teen-boy-5-pix-of-self-i/

Another example is googling. You google dragonball. 100% guarantee you that something will pop up that is criminal to possess. I demonstrated this on hardforum and was able to find the cached image and showed it was in recuva too. This was a discussion about the importance of FDE encryption and wiping free space and how thats not possible on SSDs due to spare space can't easily be wiped.

This is now cashed on your HDD and your ISP, NSA, and numerous other government organizations know you have it. You are now a federal criminal according to the laws and past examples of people getting rail roaded.

I could go on but i made my point. Every single person who has ever used the internet especially googling even innocent things is 100% a criminal.

I could write 50 books on how screwed our system is and how screwed you are if they come after you.....nothing to hide...idiot.

EDIT: There is so much more too. The lack of accountability is system wide. I.E. cops can shot their partner blame you, murder you, cover it up, and than video shows him shooting partner and then murdering you and DA goes...well it is still justified.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2...mes-suspect-both-kill-suspect-in-retaliation/


Aliexpress....click it. Become a violent sex offended under or fucked up laws. I guess i am a violent sex offender according to the case above. Aliexpress is also a mass distributed of child porn too i guess...just like the FBI (FBI actually distributes real child porn)
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-teenage-bras.html

 

[rtwjunkie]

Okay done editing lol




thanks, surprised massie voted yes :/ Dick. Amash no surprised voted no.



you have nothing to hide....right. Tell that to everyone that has been falsely imprisoned. You are naive and ignorant to say that. Twice the federal government has tried to count how many crimes exist and they couldnt even figure it out. Best guess is 30,000-300,000 if not more since crimes just expand and never shrink.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-question-how-many-federal-laws-are-there/

Additionally, that's just federal and not state or civil or regulations. Also plenty of people get falsely arrested all the time for Rape, drug war, child porn, and plenty of other crimes that they never committed. (or get shot/murdered for following orders or doing nothing illegal) If someone wants to charge you with a crime they can. You will break the law daily if not at least once....really daily. Also they can just falsify everything.

http://reason.com/archives/2016/07/18/faulty-tests-create-fake-drug-crimes
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...thheld-evidence-then-happened-again/99724064/
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...k-doughnut-glaze-for-meth-20160727-story.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...olonoscopy-by-cops-wins-16-million-settlement

and on and on and on.....
FYI Marines in war zones can't due this and would be court martialed and thrown in the brig then would get double jeopardy and charged in civilian courts.

You need to open your eyes and actually educate yourself. Prosecutors and cops falsify records all the time to charge people.

Hell you don't even need to do anything. All it takes is 1 little troll under 18 to send you a picture in a bra and instantly you face 350 years in prison.

https://reason.com/blog/2017/02/14/teen-girl-sends-teen-boy-5-pix-of-self-i/

Another example is googling. You google dragonball. 100% guarantee you that something will pop up that is criminal to possess. I demonstrated this on hardforum and was able to fine the cached image and showed it was in recuva too. This was a discussion about the importance of FDE encryption and wiping free space and how thats not possible on SSDs due to spare space can't easily be wiped.

This is now cashed on your HDD and your ISP, NSA, and numerous other government organizations know you have it. You are now a federal criminal according to the laws and past examples of people getting rail roaded.

I could go on but i made my point. Every single person who has ever used the internet especially googling even innocent things is 100% a criminal.

I could write 50 books on how screwed our system is and how screwed you are if they come after you.....nothing to hide...idiot.

EDIT: There is so much more too. The lack of accountability is system wide. I.E. cops can shot their partner blame you, murder you, cover it up, and than video shows him shooting partner and then murdering you and DA goes...well it is still justified.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2...mes-suspect-both-kill-suspect-in-retaliation/


Aliexpress....click it. Become a violent sex offended under or fucked up laws. I guess i am a violent sex offender according to the case about. Aliexpress is also a mass distributed of child porn too i guess...just like the FBI (FBI actually distributes real child porn)
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-teenage-bras.html

I never put my personal business out there, but congratulations, your post did it somewhat.

I have never seen such a collection of hysterical tinfoil-hat wearing bullshit in one place.

As someone deep on the inside, your numerous claims about federal law enforcement are downright false and insulting. I can also tell you that all Internet illegal porn investigations are so thorough, and the forensics so thorough, that unless they are 100% sure, people are not getting busted for child porn. So claims about bra pictures are just so much BS and point to people who are hiding real guilt.

@Raevenlord @btarunr @W1zzard THIS^ is why we don't do political stuff on TPU. Such a bad bad idea. Congratulations. This news story is now part of the Internet-wide muck and slime, and dragging TPU's name with it.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

I never put my personal business out there, but congratulations, your post did it somewhat.

I have never seen such a collection of hysterical tinfoil-hat wearing bullshit in one place.

As someone deep on the inside, your numerous claims about federal law enforcement are downright false and insulting. I can also tell you that all Internet illegal porn investigations are so thorough, and the forensics so thorough, that unless they are 100% sure, people are not getting busted for child porn. So claims about bra pictures are just so much BS and point to people who are hiding real guilt.

@Raevenlord @W1zzard THIS^ is why we don't do political stuff on TPU. Such a bad bad idea.

Court cases state otherwise. I provided actual cases where people have been charged, imprisoned, and made plea deals.

I have plenty of other cases too.

False how? I provided numerous facts and case examples. I know numerous law enforcement people too. I have also studied criminal law and law enforcement. Prove my sources wrong.

Waiting for your proof to discredit my sources and case examples.

So people haven't been charged and imprisoned for shotty field tests? Videos of people getting shot for grabbing a wallet as ordered too is false? Kid forced on sex offended list for pictures he did not solicit is false? Police creating a cover up false? Chicago black site is false too huh? Prosecutors hiding evidence doesn't happen either? IT guy getting fired for giving defense attorneys almost 1000 photos that the prosecutor in Zimmerman trial was hiding is also false?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/

I have sources for all of that so where is your expert proof that this is all a myth and the government has never done this?

http://peopleslawoffice.com/issues-and-cases/wrongful-conviction/

What about the 1980s (IIRC) and police couching kids into false testimony? Been a few years since i studied that. There was an era in US where there was this pattern of bad investigation technic. Anyone who studies criminal law/police will study this era.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4409058/
https://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2013/09/02/the-wrongfully-convicted-sex-offender/

@rtwjunkie let me guess you also think its a myth that the FBI does not manufacture terrorists right?
https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/
or massive sex rings
http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ts-somali-gang-sex-trafficking-case/81249316/

lawls

 

[TheMailMan78]

Court cases state otherwise. I provided actual cases where people have been charged, imprisoned, and made plea deals.

I have plenty of other cases too.

False how? I provided numerous facts and case examples. I know numerous law enforcement people too. I have also studied criminal law and law enforcement. Prove my sources wrong.

Waiting for your proof to discredit my sources and case examples.

So people haven't been charged and imprisoned for shotty field tests? Videos of people getting shot for grabbing a wallet as ordered too is false? Kid forced on sex offended list for pictures he did not solicit is false? Police creating a cover up false? Chicago black site is false too huh? Prosecutors hiding evidence doesn't happen either? IT guy getting fired for giving defense attorneys almost 1000 photos that the prosecutor in Zimmerman trial was hiding is also false?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/

I have sources for all of that so where is your expert proof that this is all a myth and the government has never done this?

http://peopleslawoffice.com/issues-and-cases/wrongful-conviction/

What about the 1980s (IIRC) and police couching kids into false testimony? Been a few years since i studied that. There was an era in US where there was this pattern of bad investigation technic. Anyone who studies criminal law/police will study this era.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4409058/
https://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2013/09/02/the-wrongfully-convicted-sex-offender/

@rtwjunkie let me guess you also think its a myth that the FBI does not manufacture terrorists right?
https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/
or massive sex rings
http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ts-somali-gang-sex-trafficking-case/81249316/

lawls

Speaking as someone who once a murder suspect I can tell you for a FACT its very difficult to prosecute someone when the burden of proof is on the state. Its also easy (in your case) to prove a "point" from internet links. Problem is when you place it in context of the US population its not near as bad as you make it seem. The US is the third largest population in the world with highly accurate and transparent records. Mistakes are made. Difference is we are open about it. Other countries not so much.

In my case the dude had FIVE witnesses who saw him do it. He was one vote away in the jury from walking. ONE VOTE AFTER FIVE PEOPLE SAW HIM DO IT AND HE ADMITTED IT TO MORE! Listen wrongful prosecutions suck. But, they are NOT THE NORM. There is no systematic persecution of anything. You give our government WAY to much credit. They are not that organized. They can't even keep their checkbook balanced.

 

[HopelesslyFaithful]

Speaking as someone who once a murder suspect I can tell you for a FACT its very difficult to prosecute someone when the burden of proof is on the state. Its also easy (in your case) to prove a "point" from internet links. Problem is when you place it in context of the US population its not near as bad as you make it seem. The US is the third largest population in the world with highly accurate and transparent records. Mistakes are made. Difference is we are open about it. Other countries not so much.

In my case the dude had FIVE witnesses who saw him do it. He was one vote away in the jury from walking. ONE VOTE AFTER FIVE PEOPLE SAW HIM DO IT AND HE ADMITTED IT TO MORE! Listen wrongful prosecutions suck. But, they are NOT THE NORM. There is no systematic persecution of anything. You give our government WAY to much credit. They are not that organized. They can't even keep their checkbook balanced.

witness testimonies are very bad and this is well known.

Murder cases are far different from drug cases and other non violent crimes. So that is a moot point.

It still doesn't get past the fact that government constantly uses false methods of proving fact like field tests (provided source above). Or the fact 10,000s of people have gone to jail due to drug labs falsely giving positive results.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/06/14000_drug_convictions_at_issue_after_faked_lab_te.html

Additionally, with drugs/DUI a cop words is automatically above yours. A cop can plant evidence on you and you will be found guilty no matter what.

Miranda plays into this too. Your word can never prove your innocence but only your guilt. It is automatically hearsay but a cops word can prove your guilt. This is why you never speak to police.

Cops also have habit of "loosing" dashcam footage or their body cam magically doesnt work or sections are missing. Endless sources on this so google away.

I did an FOIA and the cops purposely covered up the mic to hide what they were saying which was critical for me to file an unlawful detention lawsuit. They also never started dashcam and mics until i asked so much of the incriminating stuff was never recorded until half way into the unlawful detention and the other stuff that was, is now missing due to them covering up their mics.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...e-dashcam-videos-lost-due-to-computer-glitch/

if you bother to read the news or google you know dashcam footage vanishes often in the police favor.

Lastly, the process is the punishment far too often. Police can arrest you strip search you, detain you and release you and no punishment will ever happen.

Again, footage of a cop shooting partner and murdering guy they tackled for no reason trying to cover it up and the entire police department goes alone with covering it up....all that craziness ends up in 0 accountability. Not one person was charged or convicted for murder, falsifying records, unlawful detention, covering it up or anything (source is above with statements and raw footage in a link).