• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel to Make Thunderbolt Royalty-Free; Looking to Increase Adoption

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.23/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
Thunderbolt is one of the most flexible data delivery mechanisms ever developed: it boasts of both enormous versatility and performance. These connectors have seen increasingly higher adoption rates due to these characteristics, but are still to trickle down towards mid-range and entry-level offerings, which would be certainly some of the products to benefit the most, allowing them to substitute numerous, costly ports for a single jack-of-all-trades connection.

Intel is looking to solve this problem by removing royalties from Thunderbolt, further increasing adoption by integrating controllers within its own processors. The first Thunderbolt 3 "Alpine Ridge" chips, introduced in the third quarter of 2015, were manufacturer's only solution to implement Thunderbolt in their products; an extra chip which added costs and complexity to designs, which ended up limiting adoption to only higher-margin products. With Thunderbolt 3 an integrated part of the processors, those issues largely evaporate, with system builders being freed of having to design accommodations for an extra chip. Intel did not specify which processors would include the controllers or when they will ship, but the company says that it is going to make the Thunderbolt 3 specification available on a non-exclusive, royalty-free basis. Intel could have played towards eliminating the royalties on Thunderbolt 3 but only supporting it on its own processors, but the company has chosen not to do that: the door will be open for AMD and other companies to bake in support for the interface on their own solutions, spurring innovation and, more importantly, driving down costs of adoption.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,778 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Wow, someone at Intel finally woke up and realised that if they want Thunderbolt to be adopted in the market, it has to be affordable and available from third parties. Better late than never in this case.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
4,630 (0.92/day)
There is still a lot of friction for adoption of thunderbolt and accessories are quite expensive. Hopefully this will push for cheaper accessories improving adoption of thunderbolt.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
3,413 (0.99/day)
System Name M3401 notebook
Processor 5600H
Motherboard NA
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) 3050
Storage 500GB SSD
Display(s) 14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.
Soo, my take away is chipset on AMD boards supporting it is surely possible.
But what about CPU, can AMD integrate it royalty free? (or at all)

I'm puzzled by Intel's motivation here, they are basically giving up on their Apple lock, was it pressure from Apple Inc perhaps?

PS
Prices will go down once it is not an apple only thing.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
288 (0.09/day)
There is still a lot of friction for adoption of thunderbolt and accessories are quite expensive. Hopefully this will push for cheaper accessories improving adoption of thunderbolt.

Royalty-free will cheapen the price.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,162 (0.20/day)
Location
I live in Norway
Processor R9 5800x3d | R7 3900X | 4800H | 2x Xeon gold 6142
Motherboard Asrock X570M | AB350M Pro 4 | Asus Tuf A15
Cooling Air | Air | duh laptop
Memory 64gb G.skill SniperX @3600 CL16 | 128gb | 32GB | 192gb
Video Card(s) RTX 4080 |Quadro P5000 | RTX2060M
Storage Many drives
Display(s) AW3423dwf.
Case Jonsbo D41
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse g502 Lightspeed
Keyboard G913 tkl
Software win11, proxmox
Soo, my take away is chipset on AMD boards supporting it is surely possible.
But what about CPU, can AMD integrate it royalty free? (or at all)

I'm puzzled by Intel's motivation here, they are basically giving up on their Apple lock, was it pressure from Apple Inc perhaps?

PS
Prices will go down once it is not an apple only thing.

apple-lock ?
haha, apple chose thunderbolt, Intel delivered.
Intel had royalty, apple paid.

Easy as that, you can get AMD boards with thunderbolt and devices with it, it costs money just as devices with HDMI.
You pay 15 bucks extra for a pc monitor with HDMI over the exact same without - Royalty.

My feeling is that there is a catch to what Intel is doing here ? or no ?
if no: thank you Intel!
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,372 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Too little too late. I've been screaming for years its useless for a plethora of reasons... will this help? Doubt it. Intel needs to drop it and move on.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,778 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Too little too late. I've been screaming for years its useless for a plethora of reasons... will this help? Doubt it. Intel needs to drop it and move on.

Useless? For you maybe. I know plenty of people that finds it very useful. Each to their own. Overpriced, yes, but useless, no.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
2,025 (0.33/day)
Processor RyZen R9 3950X
Motherboard ASRock X570 Taichi
Cooling Coolermaster Master Liquid ML240L RGB
Memory 64GB DDR4 3200 (4x16GB)
Video Card(s) RTX 3050
Storage Samsung 2TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE276Q, VE278Q and VK278Q triple 27” 1920x1080
Case Zulman MS800
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic 650W
VR HMD Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest V1, Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 11 64bit
Human Sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria,....

Hell has frozen over,....right,...?
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,372 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Useless? For you maybe. I know plenty of people that finds it very useful. Each to their own. Overpriced, yes, but useless, no.
Useless is a bit dramatic. :)

They have been pushing it for years and for many reasons, just hasn't gained traction. Initially, and up until very recently, very few devices even have it. Mobos do, but there weren't many peripherals out which had it, or, and as it still is now as you already noted, there was(is?) a price premium too. Perhaps now this will open doors, and get more pull in the market, but, really, I won't hold my breath.

... as good as it can be as a standard port for many high bandwidth uses. :)
 

Fourstaff

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
10,079 (1.83/day)
Location
Home
System Name Orange! // ItchyHands
Processor 3570K // 10400F
Motherboard ASRock z77 Extreme4 // TUF Gaming B460M-Plus
Cooling Stock // Stock
Memory 2x4Gb 1600Mhz CL9 Corsair XMS3 // 2x8Gb 3200 Mhz XPG D41
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 570 // Asus TUF RTX 2070
Storage Samsung 840 250Gb // SX8200 480GB
Display(s) LG 22EA53VQ // Philips 275M QHD
Case NZXT Phantom 410 Black/Orange // Tecware Forge M
Power Supply Corsair CXM500w // CM MWE 600w
Beginning of the end for USB? Or the next Firewire? I think its too early to say, this can swing both ways.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
714 (0.19/day)
Finally, maybe they noticed how making it Apple exclusive for the first year almost killed it and decided that doing the opposite would have the opposite effect lol.
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
586 (0.14/day)
So many years too late. This should have been obvious from Firewire years and years ago. Better late than never? Nah. It's too late.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
3,413 (0.99/day)
System Name M3401 notebook
Processor 5600H
Motherboard NA
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) 3050
Storage 500GB SSD
Display(s) 14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
2,724 (0.41/day)
Location
Blighty
Processor R7 5800x3D
Motherboard MSI x570 Tomahawk
Cooling XSPC Raystorm Edge,EK QS P420M,EK D5pwm Revo Res
Memory 32gb Corsair Vengeance RT 3600 cl16
Video Card(s) Zotac 3070ti Amp Extreme
Storage Samsung 980pro 1tb x2
Display(s) MSI MPG321QRF QD
Case Corsair 7000D
Power Supply EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse G900
Keyboard Corsair k60 RGB PRO
Software Win 11
Thunderbolt 3 needs 4x pci-e 3.0

We wont see it on AM4 unless a board manufacturer gives it lanes from the m.2 slot,16x slots or fits a Plx chip or similar

I think even the upcoming AMD hedt platforms chipset is still pci-e 2, though that does at least have enough cpu lanes to use, as x99 boards do at the moment
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,162 (0.20/day)
Location
I live in Norway
Processor R9 5800x3d | R7 3900X | 4800H | 2x Xeon gold 6142
Motherboard Asrock X570M | AB350M Pro 4 | Asus Tuf A15
Cooling Air | Air | duh laptop
Memory 64gb G.skill SniperX @3600 CL16 | 128gb | 32GB | 192gb
Video Card(s) RTX 4080 |Quadro P5000 | RTX2060M
Storage Many drives
Display(s) AW3423dwf.
Case Jonsbo D41
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse g502 Lightspeed
Keyboard G913 tkl
Software win11, proxmox
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,765 (1.39/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
Just kill that shitty expensive port.
USB 3.1 is more than sufficient.
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
434 (0.09/day)
About time. TB is far superior to USB on every level, just need for pricing to go down with increased adoption rate and USB will be gone in few years.

At the moment I have few boards which are 'TB-ready' (there is TB header), but no compatible controller. Nice...:wtf:
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Beginning of the end for USB? Or the next Firewire? I think its too early to say, this can swing both ways.
USB isn't going anywhere because it was designed to be cheap and expandable. I think what will happen is that most mid-high end laptops will get a Thunderbolt port to give more desktop-like interconnect when the situation demands it. I think it will also show up on premium desktop motherboards. Usage of Thunderbolt will remain fringe like IEEE1394. For example, I could totally see laptop users plugging into a desktop workstation using Thunderbolt to drive multiple monitors with more GPU performance so you have portable and stationary options for work flow. I could also see Intel NUCs hooking up to external, mid-range external graphics cards for that GPU oomph they lack for HTPC use. Most people will never use Thunderbolt.

About time. TB is far superior to USB on every level, just need for pricing to go down with increased adoption rate and USB will be gone in few years.

At the moment I have few boards which are 'TB-ready' (there is TB header), but no compatible controller. Nice...:wtf:
Uh....do some research on Thunderbolt products available now. They're more like external PCI Express lanes than anything else. Plugging devices like keyboards and mice directly into a PCI Express lane is costly and wasteful.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
344 (0.08/day)
About time. TB is far superior to USB on every level, just need for pricing to go down with increased adoption rate and USB will be gone in few years.

At the moment I have few boards which are 'TB-ready' (there is TB header), but no compatible controller. Nice...:wtf:
agreed. The port and how it works is way ahead of USB. USB has always been a generation or 2 behind like HDMI vs DP.

USB isn't going anywhere because it was designed to be cheap and expandable. I think what will happen is that most mid-high end laptops will get a Thunderbolt port to give more desktop-like interconnect when the situation demands it. I think it will also show up on premium desktop motherboards. Usage of Thunderbolt will remain fringe like IEEE1394. For example, I could totally see laptop users plugging into a desktop workstation using Thunderbolt to drive multiple monitors with more GPU performance so you have portable and stationary options for work flow. I could also see Intel NUCs hooking up to external, mid-range external graphics cards for that GPU oomph they lack for HTPC use. Most people will never use Thunderbolt.


Uh....do some research on Thunderbolt products available now. They're more like external PCI Express lanes than anything else. Plugging devices like keyboards and mice directly into a PCI Express lane is costly and wasteful.


would love to see more external USB SSDs/flashdrives using TB. If TB is in every device there is no need for 8 TB ports. You only need 1 or 2 to use it where it is needed. docking stations, monitors, HDD/SSD, GPUs, other low latency/high bandwidth needs.

Seeing 1/2 TB ports on every device would be amazing and allow a lot more products to utilize it.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,765 (1.39/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
agreed. The port and how it works is way ahead of USB. USB has always been a generation or 2 behind like HDMI vs DP.




would love to see more external USB SSDs/flashdrives using TB. If TB is in every device there is no need for 8 TB ports. You only need 1 or 2 to use it where it is needed. docking stations, monitors, HDD/SSD, GPUs, other low latency/high bandwidth needs.

Seeing 1/2 TB ports on every device would be amazing and allow a lot more products to utilize it.
That's Apple brainwashing talking.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
13,171 (2.79/day)
Location
Concord, NH, USA
System Name Apollo
Processor Intel Core i9 9880H
Motherboard Some proprietary Apple thing.
Memory 64GB DDR4-2667
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon Pro 5600M, 8GB HBM2
Storage 1TB Apple NVMe, 4TB External
Display(s) Laptop @ 3072x1920 + 2x LG 5k Ultrafine TB3 displays
Case MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Audio Device(s) AirPods Pro, Sennheiser HD 380s w/ FIIO Alpen 2, or Logitech 2.1 Speakers
Power Supply 96w Power Adapter
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Logitech G915, GL Clicky
Software MacOS 12.1
You also realize that Thunderbolt is partially expensive because of how it was implemented. It's literally a PCI-E port with a mux/demux chip on each end of the cable where it uses different signaling over the cable than it does coming into or out of the port on the computer/device (hence why the ends of thunderbolt cables get warm to the touch.) That's why there can be (and are,) copper and fiber Thunderbolt cables. It's partially expensive because of what it needs to do in order to accomplish it.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
344 (0.08/day)
That's Apple brainwashing talking.
uhuh. The capability of the cable/port speaks for itself.

your logical fallacy shows how weak you are on this topic.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...s-usb-compatibility-at-full-thunderbolt-speed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)



also if i understand correctly can use USB 3.1 C cables and TB cables in the same port since TB supports both modes and both cables. That is awesome.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/compu...l-it-be-released-and-what-will-it-do-for-pcs/
Starting with Thunderbolt 3, Intel switched to USB Type-C ports and cables and made the standard cross-compatible with USB 3.1. That means that if the manufacturer supports it, the same device can use both Thunderbolt and USB 3.1 operating modes to transfer data, video, and power. The USB Type-C port on the 2015 Macbook is compatible with both USB 3.1 Gen 1 and Thunderbolt 3 standards, and adapters for standard USB Type-A and older Thunderbolt ports and cables are available.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top