Critical Flaw in HyperThreading Discovered in "Skylake" and "Kaby Lake" CPUs

eidairaman1 · Jun 27, 2017

First Atom now this.

EarthDog · Jun 27, 2017

trparky said:
You know, of all people I would think people who hang out here would be the kind of person wouldn't be caught dead using a Dell or HP computer in their homes. Self-built or nothing at all. Building one's own computer was seen as a rite of passage, when one acquires their first merit badge of geekdom.

Meh... they have their uses.. of which 90% of the population seems to enjoy. I mean, even those who race cars (yay car analogy) have daily drivers... be it canned from Ford/Honda, or maybe modified a bit.

hapkiman · Jun 27, 2017

They make this "critical" flaw sound like your system could go nuclear at any moment. My i7 7700k rig runs great, and has no issues whatsoever. Between my wife and my son, it's being used pretty much non-stop everyday.

Not worried about this at all.

ensabrenoir · Jun 27, 2017

...what it feels like to be intel right now:

Chaitanya · Jun 27, 2017

BrainCruser said:
No they aren't. They are keeping their head down, since Ryzen has a similar problem when using FMA instructions. GCC found them crashing the compiler and producing inaccurate code(deadly flaw).
https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...-faults-when-compiling-heavy-gcc-linux-loads/

If a certain instruction set is not supported then any code using those instructions is going to crash. Creating an issue out of non supported instructions is dumb.

rtwjunkie · Jun 27, 2017

trparky said:
You know, of all people I would think people who hang out here would be the kind of person wouldn't be caught dead using a Dell or HP computer in their homes. Self-built or nothing at all. Building one's own computer was seen as a rite of passage, when one acquires their first merit badge of geekdom.

Nobody is saying they are a fan of or using OEM PC over self built. But you've got your reasoning wrong. You build yourself because of performance and fun of building, not because of reliability.

Most OEM PC's are designed to be solid, long lasting machines which soldier on for years without maintenance. My work PC is an ancient 10 year old bitch of a Dell that won't die, something I pray for daily, since it is the only way I can get something newer.

Solaris17 · Jun 27, 2017

rtwjunkie said:
Nobody is saying they are a fan of or using OEM PC over self built. But you've got your reasoning wrong. You build yourself because of performance and fun of building, not because of reliability.

Most OEM PC's are designed to be solid, long lasting machines which soldier on for years without maintenance. My work PC is an ancient 10 year old bitch of a Dell that won't die, something I pray for daily, since it is the only way I can get something newer.

optiplex bby plz

RejZoR · Jun 27, 2017

oxidized said:
Yeah i think everyone knows fanboys in here by now

AMD fanboy who hasn't had an AMD since Athlon XP era and is currently running a Core i7 as well. I must be a really lousy AMD fanboy then...

TheGuruStud · Jun 27, 2017

RejZoR said:
AMD fanboy who hasn't had an AMD since Athlon XP era and is currently running a Core i7 as well. I must be a really lousy AMD fanboy then...

No need for sarcasm when that's factually true LOL. Real fanboys were slaying pentiums for many years after Athlon XP (and did it again OCing phenom IIs). This haswell crap is the worst CPU I've ever owned. Gimme back my Pentium 233 or OCing monster socket 378 celeron.

Liviu Cojocaru · Jun 27, 2017

I just hope this will get a fix soon.

Ahhzz · Jun 27, 2017

ssdpro said:
Do we have any cases of anything negative happening related to this? I can't believe we should really disable functionality based on nameless "Debian support groups" rather than Intel's specification update errata. Skylake has been around a long time now and forums show remarkable stability with CPU related tasks.

.... wtf.

oxidized · Jun 27, 2017

RejZoR said:
AMD fanboy who hasn't had an AMD since Athlon XP era and is currently running a Core i7 as well. I must be a really lousy AMD fanboy then...

Really means nothing

Frick · Jun 27, 2017

trparky said:
You know, of all people I would think people who hang out here would be the kind of person wouldn't be caught dead using a Dell or HP computer in their homes. Self-built or nothing at all. Building one's own computer was seen as a rite of passage, when one acquires their first merit badge of geekdom.

Yeah fifteen years ago when I was a wee lad I had the same thoughts, and then OEMs truly were terrible, but now .... if it works, it works.

bug · Jun 27, 2017

ssdpro said:
Do we have any cases of anything negative happening related to this? I can't believe we should really disable functionality based on nameless "Debian support groups" rather than Intel's specification update errata. Skylake has been around a long time now and forums show remarkable stability with CPU related tasks.

Oh you don't have to disable anything. It's just that Debian doesn't distribute microcode because it's "not free", so they won't install the updated microcode (already available) for their users.

notb · Jun 27, 2017

trparky said:
You know, of all people I would think people who hang out here would be the kind of person wouldn't be caught dead using a Dell or HP computer in their homes. Self-built or nothing at all. Building one's own computer was seen as a rite of passage, when one acquires their first merit badge of geekdom.

You really don't get this, do you?
1) Not all "enthusiast" or "power users" are into building PCs.
2) Not all of them have time to do this.
3) And some like building their PC and even have time, but simply want e.g. OEM's form factor (they tend to be smaller thanks to custom mobos) or service (Next Business Day or Onsite Service).
This is not the first discussion when you're going on about this "enthusiast build their PCs". Aren't you getting a bit bored by now?

Does an astronomer have to build his telescope? Does a cyclist have to assemble and service his bicycle?
Also, think about just how unjust you are to the whole computing idea. Is "being a computer enthusiast" really about building a PC and running benchmarks?

RejZoR said:
AMD fanboy who hasn't had an AMD since Athlon XP era and is currently running a Core i7 as well. I must be a really lousy AMD fanboy then...

That's even worse. Being a fanboy of a particular company but having to buy products from competitors, because one's favourites are temporarily behind in technology! Imagine the stress, the frustration building up over the years of using products you hate!

RejZoR · Jun 27, 2017

Lol, the sarcasm flew right over your head. The reason why I have Core i7 is because to be honest, AMD didn't have really good CPU for nearly a decade. I could wait a bit longer for Ryzen, but I didn't. But if AMD keeps up with current pace, it's very likely my next CPU will be AMD again. My fanboy card only speaks wallet language. The reason why I like how Intel is in absolute shit at the moment is to place them on solid ground and realize they can also be garbage. They've been living in absolute comfort for too long. Some bad PR for Intel is good for customers because AMD can eat into their market and that only means lower prices for everyone. We haven't had god competition for ages in CPU segment. That's why I'm liking problems Intel is having right now with knee jerk reactions with X299 platform as well as other issues. Because they ultimately benefit us, consumers.

EarthDog · Jun 27, 2017

RejZoR said:
The reason why I like how Intel is in absolute shit at the moment

wowsas....flair for the dramatic, much?

jigar2speed · Jun 27, 2017

oxidized said:
Really means nothing

Don't spin that, it means he uses brains and makes an actual investment.

trparky · Jun 27, 2017

notb said:
Is "being a computer enthusiast" really about building a PC and running benchmarks?

YES! It's always been that way. We are a different breed after all. Always tweaking, always pushing our systems just a little bit further to eek out just a little bit more performance. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. There's wouldn't be sites like this site and others like it if it weren't for people wanting to do just that.

RejZoR · Jun 27, 2017

EarthDog said:
wowsas....flair for the dramatic, much?

Well, it is. Yes, they have an edge from long term comfy life on laurels, but that's slowly changing with AMD hammering the market on all fronts. Consoles, Ryzen R7, Threadripper, EPYC, on compute front with RX Vega, later this year new APU's, they are securing market that matters the most, corporations, businesses and industry. Gamers were always a side thing, but they bring income. Businesses are what bring sustained income.

Mescalamba · Jun 27, 2017

Mistral said:
920 for life!

Seriously though, I'm jumping on the Ryzen train as soon as the end of the year... or next year...

Thinking about the same. I do like Intel CPUs, but their current price politics is serious meh. Ryzen seems as viable choice, but will wait till next year, especially if they manage to upgrade their manufacturing process (or at least polish it a bit).

I have it mostly as gaming platform and rest is just graphics and rendering, thus tasks that do benefit from multi-cores very nicely. As for gaming, yea there is benefit in very high speed of 2 cores, but Ryzen isnt that bad actually. Very few games is actually CPU demanding.

RealNeil · Jun 27, 2017

Mescalamba said:
Thinking about the same. I do like Intel CPUs, but their current price politics is serious meh. Ryzen seems as viable choice, but will wait till next year, especially if they manage to upgrade their manufacturing process (or at least polish it a bit).

I have it mostly as gaming platform and rest is just graphics and rendering, thus tasks that do benefit from multi-cores very nicely. As for gaming, yea there is benefit in very high speed of 2 cores, but Ryzen isnt that bad actually. Very few games is actually CPU demanding.

I'm happy with my 1700X choice, (recent build) but I'd be a liar if I didn't also say that my Intel systems run great.

Price to performance comparisons are only good for so long in such a volatile market, and AMD's recent releases have lit a fire under Intel's ass.
Their resting on laurels has been pissing people off for a long time.
Now that we have real competition again we have to wait for it to play out a little and then look at what is fairly priced and high performing.

It's all good for the consumer.

hapkiman · Jun 27, 2017

Ahhzz said:
.... wtf.

Like I said, I'm not worried at all about this so-called critical bug. To the average consumer it means very little - that is to 99% of us out there (enthusiasts included), we don't need to do anything. You'll know if something has gone wrong. And it won't be something that is as critical as you might think, or something that is irreparable. All my important stuff is constantly backed up, so I could do a fresh install today, and not lose a single thing other than having to re-download a few games.

This doomsday stuff is nonsense.

GreiverBlade · Jun 27, 2017

hapkiman said:
Like I said, I'm not worried at all about this so-called critical bug. To the average consumer it means very little - that is to 99% of us out there (enthusiasts included), we don't need to do anything. You'll know if something has gone wrong. And it won't be something that is as critical as you might think, or something that is irreparable. All my important stuff is constantly backed up, so I could do a fresh install today, and not lose a single thing other than having to re-download a few games.

This doomsday stuff is nonsense.

using my pricing as reference: [joke]well ofc ... you paid a overprice on a X600K to have a X700K that has a flawed HT but since you have no use for it, it's not a biggies ... thus the 104$ more is not an issue either, since you have 2mb and a few Mhz more to justify this

[/joke]

kruk · Jun 27, 2017

Why are so many people offended by this warning from Debian? I think it's great that they warn their users (not everyone reads errata). If you do serious work on your PC you cannot afford for it to crash. So you disable HT until microcode update comes out: better be safe than sorry.

If you are not affected by this: good for you, move along now, nothing to see here. And please, show some respect for people putting their time into opensource projects. We all benefit from them ...

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Critical Flaw in HyperThreading Discovered in "Skylake" and "Kaby Lake" CPUs

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

EarthDog

hapkiman

ensabrenoir

Chaitanya

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator

RejZoR

TheGuruStud

Liviu Cojocaru

Ahhzz

Super Moderator

oxidized

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop

bug

notb

RejZoR

EarthDog

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trparky

RejZoR

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