Editorial On Elmor's Open Letter, or The State of the Industry

[cadaveca]

The Taichi might be a good board considering the alternatives, but 10/10?

I mean, think about it; each and every board product is designed for a specific audience, whether it be based on features or based on budget. When those goals are reached, perfectly, then isn't a perfect score due?

Like, there might (MIGHT), be better boards, but, better at what? And those things they are better at, are they worth the added cost?

A bar has to be set where things are perfect, and when things are over the top. And any board for the AM4 platform, to me, that oversteps what the Taichi offers, is doing too much, and as such, isn't as good.

I criticize products for doing too much, all the time. Like boards for both gaming, and hardcore OC; to me, those are different users. That's the ROG product line through and through though. That doesn't mean those boards don't have a place, because they do for sure, and part of that is because people LIKE to go over the top. But how do you know when you reach the summit, and then want to keep reaching?

Think back to when we were all hanging out on XS... what made things fun then, and isn't here now?

Maybe my ideas are simply too grand in scale.

 

[Massman]

The fact you even have to ask, to me, says how out of touch you my be with your true customer base. That may sound harsh, but dude, I want things to be better, too.

Are you sure?

There's a thread running at Overclock.net with 1.5 million views and 22,000 replies on the Crosshair VI . It was started by Elmor himself and he's in the top-20 posters in that thread.

If there's anything you can't accuse him of it's lack of communication with the customer base.

 

[eelmor]

Intel got me the chips saturday afternoon...NDA was up monday. I didnt even have them for 48 hours. In this case, it was hard to find anything in that amount of time. Not sure about other reviewers, but that was my case.

That said, i didnt see any throttling in my testing on the z299 Prime dx when using p95 with avx (4ghz all c/t). Vrm heatsink was warm for sure. Now, 4.5ghz aida64 test, same thing.. vrm was very warm, but i didnt catch any throttling. Do recall though, i posted a month ago to you, so x299 wasnt in the picture. NOW youll want a more robust board for pushing x299...otherwise these boards are really still all about the same for 90% of people.

Well it was the example closest to mind. In general more testing is needed. Test with more memory kits, different ICs and see if there are any problems. I mean it shouldn't be difficult for a reviewer to get 10 different memory kits and check what they can do, even just testing XMP on them would be better than now. Again, just an example. There are plenty of things not tested.

Doesn't make it defensible though.


Yeah, I'm not exactly a fan of ASUS, so that's a pretty daft claim of bias to levy.

I simply listed the first two boards presented in the video. I didn't want to list them all, because according to the video, EVERY brand fell flat and it would have been a long list. I did point out no launch boards passed in the article, however.

I can't be bought either. If ASUS came to me with a bag of money asking for a 10/10, the first thing I'd do is write an article about industry ethics.

This was also very interesting http://www.overclock.net/t/1633163/...-advertorial-by-amd-draws-controversy-updated

I mean, think about it; each and every board product is designed for a specific audience, whether it be based on features or based on budget. When those goals are reached, perfectly, then isn't a perfect score due?

Like, there might (MIGHT), be better boards, but, better at what? And those things they are better at, are they worth the added cost?

A bar has to be set where things are perfect, and when things are over the top. And any board for the AM4 platform, to me, that oversteps what the Taichi offers, is doing too much, and as such, isn't as good.

I criticize products for doing too much, all the time. Like boards for both gaming, and hardcore OC; to me, those are different users. That's the ROG product line through and through though. That doesn't mean those boards don't have a place, because they do for sure, and part of that is because people LIKE to go over the top. But how do you know when you reach the summit, and then want to keep reaching?

Think back to when we were all hanging out on XS... what made things fun then, and isn't here now?

Maybe my ideas are simply too grand in scale.

I really don't agree with this view. A board can't be better because you're already satisfied? Most things can always improve in certain areas, nothing is ever really perfect. As a reviewer you should be objective, this doesn't sound like it.

Are you sure?

There's a thread running at Overclock.net with 1.5 million views and 22,000 replies on the Crosshair VI . It was started by Elmor himself and he's in the top-20 posters in that thread.

If there's anything you can't accuse him of it's lack of communication with the customer base.

Might also reflect how many issues we have with AM4 and C6H Fix one thing and the next update brings us three more bugs.

 

[EarthDog]

It actually depends on what tier reviewer you are as to how many kits you can get. Being a smaller site, i got a single kit, it worked well. So did p95 v28.1 small fft and aida64 (default not fpu only) at 4.5ghz on an open air test bench. I didnt have the time this go around to do much else.

Vendors, for us at least, also request reviews on most kits. They arent just handed out for nothing (to us). I cant support a new mobo launch and 10 sets of memory at a smaller site.

To be frank, IMO, it is also not a reviewers job to test ram sticks for the boards. That is what a qvl list is for. What most revuewers test for is what covers most people.

Memory really matters so little for most people, its really not worth focusing effort on, truthfully. Its xmp and go for 95% of people.

Now, software, i can agree with you. Software suites, including AISuite, are dubious at best. Most forums recommemd not even using them as it cam cause issues.

 

[gupsterg]

I for one can vouch eelmor has been at the forefront of interaction with C6H owners.

The C6H gain notoriety with it's bricking situation at launch, what many forgot to mention when discussing it on OCN how swiftly they responded. I pre ordered my C6H on the 01/03/17, received it 10/03/17 and on that day a updated UEFI was on OCN.

Then there is an issue with G.Skill RGB RAM, where the RGB function uses SPD write. When another SW is using the SMBus corruption of SPD could occur, as soon as Elmor become aware of this he stated he would get the Asus Aura SW updated to use correct "locking" function and it happened. AFAIK other vendors have yet to resolve it.

Then some C6H owners were experiencing an issue where RGB function on C6H stopped working. As these RMAs were not filtering through to Elmor/Raja@ASUS they requested members in the thread to PM them so they could organize a swap out and have the board for studying. Again a fix has been released.

Prior to AGESA allowing command rate change Elmor released iterations of UEFI with 1T and 2T. The number of UEFIs I have collected is bewildering for the period the board has been out.

Then we have the situation where sometimes members on OCN ask should I get the C6H? several members will outline no and point to reviews like HardOCP, etc and not point them to user experience which has been far better IMO than those reviews. Only recently Guru3D, came out with this crud.

In my experiences DDR4 in general is best supported by MSI and ASRock, followed by Gigabyte and the absolute worst (in my experience) is ASUS. The number of memory issues I had with the Crosshair VI HERO are diverse and plentiful.

and

We test worst case scenario hence for the memory testing I will be reverting to that Crosshair VI HERO motherboard.

Source link.

Members using that article exclude the words "In my experiences" stated there. Now some members use that as the defacto experience all will get on C6H. Which is incorrect. There are numerous posts on OCN of members with Asrock/Gigabyte/MSI, etc boards which had or having issues with RAM compatibility. So all in all a mixed bag.

Then we have members stating get the Taichi, it is better. They forget to mention how many UEFI have been pants, that Buildzoid airs his frustrations on YouTube about it. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3, Link 4.

Even Chew* recommends Taichi but then excludes information which posts off/on as such linked here. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3, Link 4.

Taichi 10/10 .

 

[cadaveca]

Are you sure?

YES, I'm sure. When I say "YOU", I'm not referring to elmor directly, but ASUS. elmor's a great guy, and very helpful, and a valuable member of this industry.

I really don't agree with this view. A board can't be better because you're already satisfied? Most things can always improve in certain areas, nothing is ever really perfect. As a reviewer you should be objective, this doesn't sound like it.

It's about users, not about what board can break the most records; that is something different. You'll find that here on TPU, there isn't a big focus on extreme clocking, or clocking for benchmarking either. There isn't "one board to rule them all" with that sort of user... there are many excellent options that will meet their needs, and frankly, that's being as objective as possible... that's removing my own wants for a board that will clock memory to the moon and back. However, for the majority of users, they do not need more than minor oc-ability for CPU, and XMP Profile support with four primary timings. leave vccio, vccsa, vcore, vInput, vDIMM, and most users don't even need that many. Yet here you are talking about how a board's not good enough.... the majority of enthusiasts are NOT as advanced as you'd like them to be.


AND you're right, there is always room for improvement.

I for one can vouch eelmor has been at the forefront of interaction with C6H owners.

Again, you all have missed the mark. Elmor doesn't need anyone to vouch for him. He's a big boy, and has worked in this industry for longer than some of us have been into PCs. HIs name is all the vouching he needs. I'm glad you are showing support for him, but c'mon now.


honestly, I am directly referring to ASUS customer support here in the US. Elmor is in the EU< and has nothing to do with that.

 

[gupsterg]

I don't doubt people know of Elmor. Perhaps I should have used a better opening line to my post .

Asus RMA/Support in UK isn't the best. One reason why I got my C6H from Amazon UK as 1st year it's full refund or new board. In the past Amazon have been so great to send me xyz replacement prior to even sending the faulty item.

But how I do see it, the support on OCN does not have a barrier of region, nor does the ROG forum, Elmor also started a thread on HWBot. Language perhaps. So I do believe he has touched base with numerous customers, from various regions and from the everyday user to extreme overclocker.

As much as I like him and support him with my previous post, I also have a gripe which for me is "industry" related and affecting particular Asus board owners but not me.

The Asus Prime X370 Pro was a board I considered for purchase, but I didn't for some reasons, now I feel glad I didn't. From member shares on OCN it does not have PState OC facility, then on current latest UEFI based on AGESA 1.0.0.6 users have no access to CLDO_VDDP. Fundamentally I believe the user experience is being gimped.

There are boards the Asus Prime X370 Pro would be competing against, some lower priced and they have said features. One reason I have bought Asus board in the past is it's feature rich UEFI.

 

[Fabiano]

Just an update with the ASUS CROSSHAIR VI Hero. It used to support DTS- NOW, IT DOES NOT SUPPORT DTS ANYMORE.

So, Premium Sound anybody ???

Yes, with the windows 10 build 14393 we had DTS working perfectly with the drivers provided by ASUS and now, no more DTS for the C6H.

So, the X370 Taichi is even more attractive now, as it is a MUCH more stable platform, has better VRM, better BIOS and DTS support. It also sells for less than the C6H with much more to offer other than LEDS and "Premium sound" that is not premium .
Yes, I am really pissed, almost to the point of hammering this board live on youtube.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...3-332-How-When&p=659688&viewfull=1#post659688


"premium sound" that now lacks surround over it's optical out.

What's the reason I had to purchase this board ?? Yes, Oc capabilities + Premium sound!!!

So what is exactly good about the C6H ? Leds, which I personally give 0 crap about !

What I got for $ 254 ? Eternal Beta bios status and scammed on the "Premium Sound" that is in fact NO Premium.

No other way I can call this other than SCAMMING.



So, the X370 Taichi is even more attractive now:

1- Better VRM
2- Better BIOS support
3- DTS connect - without 3 months of hassle with ASUS to end up getting scammed.
4- All that for less $ than the C6H